With the addition of companions now more than ever a veteran overland is needed

AlexanderDeLarge

mickeyx wrote: »

The game is ridiculosly easy for you maybe and other leets sitting at 1k+ CP and fully kitted in gold gear from trials and veteran dungeons. For rest of the players the game has plenty of challenges to offer still. Sorry but you are in minority but hey by all means please continue to "demand". 🙄

What are you even talking about? CP300s can easily triple-shot elite enemies in the overland.

You say this in all seriousness meanwhile players leave in droves or never even consider playing in the first place with the most common sentiment online against The Elder Scrolls Online is as follows...

#1 bad combat
#2 bad performance
#3 it's too easy

mickeyx wrote: »

It's a waste of resources considering Craglorn is perfect example of what happens when devs force people to group up.

You realize the reason Craglorn didn't work is because they released an MMO where simple MMO-y things like grouping were completely broken and most people stopped playing until it went buy2play... Right? You need a community for adventure zones to work. They were never even given a fair shot. Were you even around for launch?

Wolfshead

robertthebard wrote: »

Fata1moose wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.

It changes everything. I've seen this discussion before. Here, and in DDO. When they finally got it in DDO, and started complaining that it was too hard, I picked up a nice little year ban from the forums for suggesting exactly what you suggest here, "Play a lower difficulty".

Sorry to hear that you got band but I honestly don't see a problem Division 2 have that feature in place and work really well the have in the world and in dungeon heck that like 4 versions of everything from story mode to legendary mode so I don't see what problem would be and that could have been added a long time ago here on ESO I hope the will do something to make harder otherwise this will be easy mode WoW all over again

mickeyx

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

What are you even talking about? CP300s can easily triple-shot elite enemies in the overland.

You say this in all seriousness meanwhile players leave in droves or never even consider playing in the first place with the most common sentiment online against The Elder Scrolls Online is as follows...

#1 bad combat
#2 bad performance
#3 it's too easy

Lol what BS. The game has never been more active with loads of players in every overland zones. Not once have I heard anyone complain in zone chats about how easy the content is. Infact lot of new players are always asking for groups for world bosses and public dungeons.

Do we even play the same game or you can't see anything all the way up from your ivory tower of leetness? I wish there was a laugh react because you say the most ridiculous things.

Even after grouping was fixed craglorn was ghostland. I quit the game back when there was no lfg and I got tired of spending hours spamming for LFG. So yes I was there at launch and seen this game change from ghost town to one of the most active MMO right after world of warcraft. So yeah go easy on your doom and gloom how players are leaving in droves. 🙄

However, the fact remains. Even after being at its peak in term of overall population. Craglorn is least played while other overland zones are jam packed with players. If there was no trials in craglorn you would hear crickets in zone chat. Most people hang out there because they want do get done with trials and get the f outta there asap.

I am in 5 guilds and every person I know new or old only cares for trials and skyshards in craglorn. Beyond that they don't care about group content.

Sarousse

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

Faulgor

Katlefiya wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

really should have separate vet and normal instances overland. rewards should also be scalled to that.

So it really is about better rewards after all.

I don't know where this idea comes from that proponents of higher difficulty settings are weaving a conspiracy by saying they "just want a challenge" to hide that in reality it's all about the goodies. I've never seen people actually say that.

Higher difficulty goes together with different/new/better rewards. Always. Everywhere. That's like MMO 101.

Nobody is hiding that fact. I've certainly always been upfront about it.

And no, it's not "just about the rewards". Challenge and reward always go in tandem. If you have one without the other, you don't have a game.
This is really not obscure or nefarious stuff.

Vanya

OP Thou art asking the impossible. ESO Difficulty level will never be the same as it was before ever since Tamriel Unlimited. The Companion System shall make game even more solo-friendly experience.

mickeyx

Sarousse wrote: »

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

If there were really that many players asking for it I am sure they would have made veteran overland version by now. They have the data and stastics and so far it isn't in your favour. It's clear they want to focus on getting more new players and make game more casual friendly rather than cater to vocal minority on forums. And companion system is just going to do that. Attract more single rpg players of Elder scrolls and other titles.. *Shrugs*

Agenericname

mickeyx wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

If there were really that many players asking for it I am sure they would have made veteran overland version by now. They have the data and stastics and so far it isn't in your favour. It's clear they want to focus on getting more new players and make game more casual friendly rather than cater to vocal minority on forums. And companion system is just going to do that. Attract more single rpg players of Elder scrolls and other titles.. *Shrugs*

If it were a vocal minority on the forums it might be the case, but i doubt that it is. Most of the people that I play with do not quest, and it typically because the quests and overland in general arent engaging. Theyre written well enough and the aesthetics are good, but the level of difficulty is low enough that it doesnt feel engaging at all.

Those people, most anyway, dont have forum accounts. In the conversations we have had the result is "we will just play another game." Which is what happens. We always come back to do other things, dungeons, trials, pvp, etc, but overland is at this point scenery. If we want overland to feel even mildly engaging we find it other games.

If they can find a way to make everyone happy, they should. My main has 400 skill points or so missing just a few areas to complete the explorer/quest achievements and its a slog to do them.

Engaging isnt the same as challenging in every case. There's some overlap of course, but theyre not the same. If we want a challenge they exist already; vet arenas, dungeons, trials, and pvp serve to provide a challenge. Thats fine, that niche is filled. Engaging in the sense that I may need to occansionally pay attention or act defensively when I facing the biggest baddy of the land is whats lacking.

Sevn

Agenericname wrote: »

mickeyx wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

If there were really that many players asking for it I am sure they would have made veteran overland version by now. They have the data and stastics and so far it isn't in your favour. It's clear they want to focus on getting more new players and make game more casual friendly rather than cater to vocal minority on forums. And companion system is just going to do that. Attract more single rpg players of Elder scrolls and other titles.. *Shrugs*

If it were a vocal minority on the forums it might be the case, but i doubt that it is. Most of the people that I play with do not quest, and it typically because the quests and overland in general arent engaging. Theyre written well enough and the aesthetics are good, but the level of difficulty is low enough that it doesnt feel engaging at all.

Those people, most anyway, dont have forum accounts. In the conversations we have had the result is "we will just play another game." Which is what happens. We always come back to do other things, dungeons, trials, pvp, etc, but overland is at this point scenery. If we want overland to feel even mildly engaging we find it other games.

If they can find a way to make everyone happy, they should. My main has 400 skill points or so missing just a few areas to complete the explorer/quest achievements and its a slog to do them.

Engaging isnt the same as challenging in every case. There's some overlap of course, but theyre not the same. If we want a challenge they exist already; vet arenas, dungeons, trials, and pvp serve to provide a challenge. Thats fine, that niche is filled. Engaging in the sense that I may need to occansionally pay attention or act defensively when I facing the biggest baddy of the land is whats lacking.

This comes up every other week. For at least 4/5 years now. Zos has ALL the data, yet you are seriously saying it's the majority of the population that wants this and are actively supporting the idea?

In this very thread you have players claiming no one or just one or two players ever requested or were interested in companions yet we are getting them instead of them overhauling overworld that this majority has been asking for? For 5 years? That makes sense to you?

There is no way to make everyone happy if they implement this. If it has any sort of added rewards it will face an immediate negative response from the vast majority of the population who will not use this nor pay for it.

Which brings us to cost. Zos ISN'T going to get the ok from their bosses to do this for free. I'd fire whoever propose such a ridiculous idea. I see now that's the only way to truly kill this dead horse, bring up cost and discuss it like a business.

That's the only way. I'll keep saying it. They aren't going to risk the ire from the majority of their casual population adding better rewards for this content, take time and resources away from projects that will benefit the majority or simply bring in revenue, for free.

Agenericname

Sevn wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

mickeyx wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

If there were really that many players asking for it I am sure they would have made veteran overland version by now. They have the data and stastics and so far it isn't in your favour. It's clear they want to focus on getting more new players and make game more casual friendly rather than cater to vocal minority on forums. And companion system is just going to do that. Attract more single rpg players of Elder scrolls and other titles.. *Shrugs*

If it were a vocal minority on the forums it might be the case, but i doubt that it is. Most of the people that I play with do not quest, and it typically because the quests and overland in general arent engaging. Theyre written well enough and the aesthetics are good, but the level of difficulty is low enough that it doesnt feel engaging at all.

Those people, most anyway, dont have forum accounts. In the conversations we have had the result is "we will just play another game." Which is what happens. We always come back to do other things, dungeons, trials, pvp, etc, but overland is at this point scenery. If we want overland to feel even mildly engaging we find it other games.

If they can find a way to make everyone happy, they should. My main has 400 skill points or so missing just a few areas to complete the explorer/quest achievements and its a slog to do them.

Engaging isnt the same as challenging in every case. There's some overlap of course, but theyre not the same. If we want a challenge they exist already; vet arenas, dungeons, trials, and pvp serve to provide a challenge. Thats fine, that niche is filled. Engaging in the sense that I may need to occansionally pay attention or act defensively when I facing the biggest baddy of the land is whats lacking.

This comes up every other week. For at least 4/5 years now. Zos has ALL the data, yet you are seriously saying it's the majority of the population that wants this and are actively supporting the idea?

In this very thread you have players claiming no one or just one or two players ever requested or were interested in companions yet we are getting them instead of them overhauling overworld that this majority has been asking for? For 5 years? That makes sense to you?

There is no way to make everyone happy if they implement this. If it has any sort of added rewards it will face an immediate negative response from the vast majority of the population who will not use this nor pay for it.

Which brings us to cost. Zos ISN'T going to get the ok from their bosses to do this for free. I'd fire whoever propose such a ridiculous idea. I see now that's the only way to truly kill this dead horse, bring up cost and discuss it like a business.

That's the only way. I'll keep saying it. They aren't going to risk the ire from the majority of their casual population adding better rewards for this content, take time and resources away from projects that will benefit the majority or simply bring in revenue, for free.

No, I didnt say the majority nor did I imply such. Vet DLCs arent played by a majority, neither are vet trials, or pvp, yet we have them. It doesnt need to be a majority. What I said was the majority of my friends, which is not only anecdotal but also not a large enough sample, but true none-the-less.

Yes, it does make sense if its feasable. If it isnt, then it isnt. You said it yourself, the topic comes up often so its apparently an idea that either many, maybe not most, but many, are in favor of or the same small group of people have been posting asking for it for the last 4/5 years. Either way, it has enough traction to be considered and if it can be done without upsetting the difficulty that new players face, then it should be.

I believe they have already considered it and even spoke about it. The results were, nothing in the works yet, but not out of the question.

Youre right about one thing though, no matter what they do they will face a negative response.

Sevn

Agenericname wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Agenericname wrote: »

mickeyx wrote: »

Sarousse wrote: »

Many players are asking for this (me first). What would it cost for them to put a Veteran tag and instance zones ? Nothing.

I'm so tired in 2-shotting everything when new content goes out, especially during the main story, where I'm supposed to face super strong vilains that threaten Tamriel and can't even kill me naked and AFK. It's not worth the $$ I'm spending when buying new content.

We need a veteran tag. Like for dungeons in overland. That's it. Period. It's easy.

If there were really that many players asking for it I am sure they would have made veteran overland version by now. They have the data and stastics and so far it isn't in your favour. It's clear they want to focus on getting more new players and make game more casual friendly rather than cater to vocal minority on forums. And companion system is just going to do that. Attract more single rpg players of Elder scrolls and other titles.. *Shrugs*

If it were a vocal minority on the forums it might be the case, but i doubt that it is. Most of the people that I play with do not quest, and it typically because the quests and overland in general arent engaging. Theyre written well enough and the aesthetics are good, but the level of difficulty is low enough that it doesnt feel engaging at all.

Those people, most anyway, dont have forum accounts. In the conversations we have had the result is "we will just play another game." Which is what happens. We always come back to do other things, dungeons, trials, pvp, etc, but overland is at this point scenery. If we want overland to feel even mildly engaging we find it other games.

If they can find a way to make everyone happy, they should. My main has 400 skill points or so missing just a few areas to complete the explorer/quest achievements and its a slog to do them.

Engaging isnt the same as challenging in every case. There's some overlap of course, but theyre not the same. If we want a challenge they exist already; vet arenas, dungeons, trials, and pvp serve to provide a challenge. Thats fine, that niche is filled. Engaging in the sense that I may need to occansionally pay attention or act defensively when I facing the biggest baddy of the land is whats lacking.

This comes up every other week. For at least 4/5 years now. Zos has ALL the data, yet you are seriously saying it's the majority of the population that wants this and are actively supporting the idea?

In this very thread you have players claiming no one or just one or two players ever requested or were interested in companions yet we are getting them instead of them overhauling overworld that this majority has been asking for? For 5 years? That makes sense to you?

There is no way to make everyone happy if they implement this. If it has any sort of added rewards it will face an immediate negative response from the vast majority of the population who will not use this nor pay for it.

Which brings us to cost. Zos ISN'T going to get the ok from their bosses to do this for free. I'd fire whoever propose such a ridiculous idea. I see now that's the only way to truly kill this dead horse, bring up cost and discuss it like a business.

That's the only way. I'll keep saying it. They aren't going to risk the ire from the majority of their casual population adding better rewards for this content, take time and resources away from projects that will benefit the majority or simply bring in revenue, for free.

No, I didnt say the majority nor did I imply such. Vet DLCs arent played by a majority, neither are vet trials, or pvp, yet we have them. It doesnt need to be a majority. What I said was the majority of my friends, which is not only anecdotal but also not a large enough sample, but true none-the-less.

Yes, it does make sense if its feasable. If it isnt, then it isnt. You said it yourself, the topic comes up often so its apparently an idea that either many, maybe not most, but many, are in favor of or the same small group of people have been posting asking for it for the last 4/5 years. Either way, it has enough traction to be considered and if it can be done without upsetting the difficulty that new players face, then it should be.

I believe they have already considered it and even spoke about it. The results were, nothing in the works yet, but not out of the question.

Youre right about one thing though, no matter what they do they will face a negative response.

Actually you did imply it was a majority by dismissing what it is, a vocal minority. Even in these countless threads it is a minority. Poll after poll, thread after thread and as you correctly stated, these forums are just a fraction of the population.

Couldn't have said it better though, if it was feasible, had enough traction and could be done without upsetting not just new players, but vet players who have zero interest as well it would be in the works after 5+ years.

I believe you are totally correct as well. They have spoken and considered it, but my conclusion is they were asked by the suits, their bosses how they planned on monetizing this content and until that is answered nothing will be in the works.

Edit- Again, to be clear I am not against this. I'm simply playing devil's advocate as a boss. The vast majority of the population were begging for more storage. We finally get it, through the crown store. Housing? Crown store. Character altering? Crown store. If it can't be monetized and won't be used or benefits a majority it is not happening. The Endgame Vet content you listed and the amount of players utilizing said content is exactly why this request is dead in the water.

I don't want players responding to me as if I need convincing. You all need to convince the suits why they should do this content for free, simply put.

Massacre_Wurm

Well , overland was challenging enough for me as a new player in random quest gear. I died quite a lot around lvl 30.
And i think overland is still challenging enough for no cp people and people withouit crafted gear sets,

Rungar

One thing they could do, given the new chapter is have vet and normal daedric portals. Just make the vet ones a different color so people can tell the difference.

Iccotak

Katlefiya wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

really should have separate vet and normal instances overland. rewards should also be scalled to that.

So it really is about better rewards after all.

Dont be naive. Incentive has forever been the glue that holds this entire genre together.

Yeah the whole “You just want rewards!” Argument doesn’t hold when all activities in this game are centered on incentive for participation.

Well, the argument was made repeatedly, that this is not about "rewards" but about "the challenge". Once you introduce a veteran mode for overland without better rewards, of course the same people will ask for "better gear" because "why would the noobs running only normal mode deserve the same stuff for less".

No surprise, really. I was just pointing out this hypocrisy.

mickeyx wrote: »

People who say "it's about challenge' and not reward" should be politicians. I can smell the BS from miles away.

You do realize that every single activity in this game has an incentive, right?

It would make sense that when proposing a new game mode or activity that you would attach rewards to it to incentivize others who may not be necessarily motivated by challenge only - like some other people are.

See when making an activity it is good to have some form of compromise and aiming to appease more than just one type player.

Challenge and Reward go hand-in-hand.

In this case for me primarily I just want the main story bosses to be treated like a dungeons or trials. I personally don’t care about any rewards in this case specifically, but I understand that other people do and it would make sense that - if I were to implement a new mode for these bosses - that I would also attach rewards for those who are looking for that sort of thing.

So it really is not hypocrisy, nobody is lying about their intentions – they are just trying to implement a system that works seamlessly with the game as it is right now.

To frame the entirety of the group asking for a veteran Overland or for veteran main story bosses as people who only care about rewards is frankly disingenuous.

There are people who only like challenge, there are people who only care about the rewards, and then there are people who like both. So it would make sense for this hypothetical game mode to try to satisfy these different groups - especially when considering that is what dungeons and trials do now.

xericdx

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

What people dont understand is that the health of overland mobs has been roughly the same for a long time. Most players want a sense of progression so gimping yourself to run around without gear is a not an option. You dont need to necessarily buff PVE mobs, you can debuff the player as long as there is some reward for doing so.

Dark Souls had the ring of Calamity where the user would take twice the amount of damage. This got me thinking, what if there was an outfit piece (so you can keep all your gear equipped) that would do the same in ESO.

• Band of the Veteran
• Reduce outgoing damage by 75%
• Reduce incoming heals/shields by 50%
• Increase incoming damage by 50%
• Increase XP gain by 25%

*If other party members dont have this outfit equipped XP gain will not be increased.
**The numbers are just an indication of course.

Technically speaking its gimping yourself but gear/CP still make a difference. The good thing is that questing and overland content gets more challenging and you get compensated for dealing less damage and taking more damage by gaining more XP.

I even recently made a post with a very similar proposal. I am not sure why we cannot agree on something like this which will help those who like it harder, not bother those for whom it is already difficult enough, and don't split the population. I would only reverse the damage incoming/outgoing. Higher debuff percentage of incoming than outgoing damage, otherwise NPCs become just boring combat sponges. Overland enemies mechanics are just not engaging / varied enough to make them bearable

Iccotak

xericdx wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

What people dont understand is that the health of overland mobs has been roughly the same for a long time. Most players want a sense of progression so gimping yourself to run around without gear is a not an option. You dont need to necessarily buff PVE mobs, you can debuff the player as long as there is some reward for doing so.

Dark Souls had the ring of Calamity where the user would take twice the amount of damage. This got me thinking, what if there was an outfit piece (so you can keep all your gear equipped) that would do the same in ESO.

• Band of the Veteran
• Reduce outgoing damage by 75%
• Reduce incoming heals/shields by 50%
• Increase incoming damage by 50%
• Increase XP gain by 25%

*If other party members dont have this outfit equipped XP gain will not be increased.
**The numbers are just an indication of course.

Technically speaking its gimping yourself but gear/CP still make a difference. The good thing is that questing and overland content gets more challenging and you get compensated for dealing less damage and taking more damage by gaining more XP.

I even recently made a post with a very similar proposal. I am not sure why we cannot agree on something like this which will help those who like it harder, not bother those for whom it is already difficult enough, and don't split the population. I would only reverse the damage incoming/outgoing. Higher debuff percentage of incoming than outgoing damage, otherwise NPCs become just boring combat sponges. Overland enemies mechanics are just not engaging / varied enough to make them bearable

Exactly.

I also disagree with the “don’t split the population” argument. Because one separate instance is not comparable to what things used to be like in Pre-One Tamriel where the player base was split Nine different ways.

zvavi

Katlefiya wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

really should have separate vet and normal instances overland. rewards should also be scalled to that.

So it really is about better rewards after all.

Dont be naive. Incentive has forever been the glue that holds this entire genre together.

Yeah the whole “You just want rewards!” Argument doesn’t hold when all activities in this game are centered on incentive for participation.

Well, the argument was made repeatedly, that this is not about "rewards" but about "the challenge". Once you introduce a veteran mode for overland without better rewards, of course the same people will ask for "better gear" because "why would the noobs running only normal mode deserve the same stuff for less".

No surprise, really. I was just pointing out this hypocrisy.

It is not hypocrisy. Because if you keep the rewards the same, you are literally punishing players that chose the vet version by giving them less rewards over time. More rewards on the vet version should be balanced towards the extra time spent so both normal and vet overland will have around the same rewards over time ratio.
Heck, it should reward a tiny bit more over time on vet to make sure vet version is not punished.

Iccotak

zvavi wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

really should have separate vet and normal instances overland. rewards should also be scalled to that.

So it really is about better rewards after all.

Dont be naive. Incentive has forever been the glue that holds this entire genre together.

Yeah the whole “You just want rewards!” Argument doesn’t hold when all activities in this game are centered on incentive for participation.

Well, the argument was made repeatedly, that this is not about "rewards" but about "the challenge". Once you introduce a veteran mode for overland without better rewards, of course the same people will ask for "better gear" because "why would the noobs running only normal mode deserve the same stuff for less".

No surprise, really. I was just pointing out this hypocrisy.

It is not hypocrisy. Because if you keep the rewards the same, you are literally punishing players that chose the vet version by giving them less rewards over time. More rewards on the vet version should be balanced towards the extra time spent so both normal and vet overland will have around the same rewards over time ratio.
Heck, it should reward a tiny bit more over time on vet to make sure vet version is not punished.

That’s a great point

barney2525

Hallothiel wrote: »

Lordy people do forget.

Craglorn used to be hellish difficult. Groups of wasps would kill you just by looking at you.

And it was a dead zone. Hardly anyone went there. Which is why it was changed.

A few people on here may want overland HM but not the majority of players. That’s the reality.

Hey, hey, hey now ... This is Forums

I didn't think Facts were allowed here

Xebov

xericdx wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

What people dont understand is that the health of overland mobs has been roughly the same for a long time. Most players want a sense of progression so gimping yourself to run around without gear is a not an option. You dont need to necessarily buff PVE mobs, you can debuff the player as long as there is some reward for doing so.

Dark Souls had the ring of Calamity where the user would take twice the amount of damage. This got me thinking, what if there was an outfit piece (so you can keep all your gear equipped) that would do the same in ESO.

• Band of the Veteran
• Reduce outgoing damage by 75%
• Reduce incoming heals/shields by 50%
• Increase incoming damage by 50%
• Increase XP gain by 25%

*If other party members dont have this outfit equipped XP gain will not be increased.
**The numbers are just an indication of course.

Technically speaking its gimping yourself but gear/CP still make a difference. The good thing is that questing and overland content gets more challenging and you get compensated for dealing less damage and taking more damage by gaining more XP.

I even recently made a post with a very similar proposal. I am not sure why we cannot agree on something like this which will help those who like it harder, not bother those for whom it is already difficult enough, and don't split the population. I would only reverse the damage incoming/outgoing. Higher debuff percentage of incoming than outgoing damage, otherwise NPCs become just boring combat sponges. Overland enemies mechanics are just not engaging / varied enough to make them bearable

There are 2 reasons:
1.) Overland is a "one size fits all" solution. Its the same for everyone and obviously its hard for some, to easy for some and has many players somewhere inbetween. You now want to solve the issue caused by a "one size fits all" design with a "one size fits all" solution. Adding such an item would not solve your problem because you would end up with players where normal overland is to easy and your solution is to hard, while some might find it to easy with such a solution. The gap between players is simply to big to fir a single point inbetween and make a solution out of it.
2.) Its a solution tailored for DD players. As you might obviously know the game has 3 roles. Healers and Tanks already jump through extra hoops to get some DD builds going for this and they would be left out of this for the most part because they are naturally weaker given the way the game works.

zvavi wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Katlefiya wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

really should have separate vet and normal instances overland. rewards should also be scalled to that.

So it really is about better rewards after all.

Dont be naive. Incentive has forever been the glue that holds this entire genre together.

Yeah the whole “You just want rewards!” Argument doesn’t hold when all activities in this game are centered on incentive for participation.

Well, the argument was made repeatedly, that this is not about "rewards" but about "the challenge". Once you introduce a veteran mode for overland without better rewards, of course the same people will ask for "better gear" because "why would the noobs running only normal mode deserve the same stuff for less".

No surprise, really. I was just pointing out this hypocrisy.

It is not hypocrisy. Because if you keep the rewards the same, you are literally punishing players that chose the vet version by giving them less rewards over time. More rewards on the vet version should be balanced towards the extra time spent so both normal and vet overland will have around the same rewards over time ratio.
Heck, it should reward a tiny bit more over time on vet to make sure vet version is not punished.

For this you can solve the 2.) I added to the other quote.

AlexanderDeLarge

Hallothiel wrote: »

Lordy people do forget.

Craglorn used to be hellish difficult. Groups of wasps would kill you just by looking at you.

And it was a dead zone. Hardly anyone went there. Which is why it was changed.

A few people on here may want overland HM but not the majority of players. That’s the reality.

This is blatantly disingenuous veering into revisionist history territory. It was a dead zone because everyone left the game after a botched launch. Not to mention, something as basic as grouping in an MMO was broken and no one wanted to go to a zone that relied on grouped content at the time.

Adventure zones are great and would be received very well in TESO today post-One Tamriel with working grouping and phasing mechanics. It just wasn't given a fair chance under fair circumstances.

icapital

Hi - player here from the beta days and when Craglorn was first introduced.

Many of us left to other MMO's (such as WoW) because the game was a disaster at launch and had no vision, not because of Craglorns difficulty. Craglorn was much needed but it was a "too late" type of ordeal.

The business model has changed what, two times since release? Many forget but the game launched with a mandatory sub and it just wasn't worth it in its released state.

I'm back to ESO from WoW because Shadowlands was the final straw for me.

But here's the thing, ESO does a lot of things better than WoW but the overland's immersion in terms of difficulty isn't one.

The open-world is FAR too easy. The level scaling was supposed to in theory not only open things up but keep everything leveled to the player to "open" the world up but to also keep it all relevant.

What has happened is that the world being so easy is now comparable to other MMO's that have a "on rails" progression system where once you out level a zone, you can go back and one-shot everything.

This defeats the purpose of keeping everything leveled to you if you're still able to roll through mobs. When I reached lvl 60 in shadowlands and went back to older expansion content, I had the same experience as I'm having now starting a new toon at lvl 4 breezing through mobs in West Skyrim. The difference is in WoW I'm at least 10 levels above the mobs in the zone...here in ESO I'm supposed to be scaled to them.

There's something wrong with the difficulty...it's one thing being casual it's another just being Stardew Valley MMO.

And no, the answer isn't to run group content solo or harder aspects of the game like vet dungeons. If we are going to have level scaling then the "danger" should also scale.

There's currently virtually no risk/reward being out in the openworld at all.

Iccotak

Hallothiel wrote: »

Lordy people do forget.

Craglorn used to be hellish difficult. Groups of wasps would kill you just by looking at you.

And it was a dead zone. Hardly anyone went there. Which is why it was changed.

A few people on here may want overland HM but not the majority of players. That’s the reality.

Craglorn was a dead zone because it FORCED you to group

let's not confuse the facts here

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Hallothiel wrote: »

Lordy people do forget.

Craglorn used to be hellish difficult. Groups of wasps would kill you just by looking at you.

And it was a dead zone. Hardly anyone went there. Which is why it was changed.

A few people on here may want overland HM but not the majority of players. That’s the reality.

This is blatantly disingenuous veering into revisionist history territory. It was a dead zone because everyone left the game after a botched launch. Not to mention, something as basic as grouping in an MMO was broken and no one wanted to go to a zone that relied on grouped content at the time.

Adventure zones are great and would be received very well in TESO today post-One Tamriel with working grouping and phasing mechanics. It just wasn't given a fair chance under fair circumstances.

Xebov

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Adventure zones are great and would be received very well in TESO today post-One Tamriel with working grouping and phasing mechanics. It just wasn't given a fair chance under fair circumstances.

I doubt that. Many years ago when Everquest 2 launched they had the whole game build up around group content and players hated it because they couldnt progress without finding groups. For ESO you can see this issue with trial group finding as well.

When someone comes home from work or school they want to play, they dont want to spend to much time finding a group to get something done. ESO does a great job in achieving this with the way zones and queues work. The only thing realy lacking is some sort of trial grouping system.

Iccotak

Xebov wrote: »

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Adventure zones are great and would be received very well in TESO today post-One Tamriel with working grouping and phasing mechanics. It just wasn't given a fair chance under fair circumstances.

I doubt that. Many years ago when Everquest 2 launched they had the whole game build up around group content and players hated it because they couldnt progress without finding groups. For ESO you can see this issue with trial group finding as well.

When someone comes home from work or school they want to play, they dont want to spend to much time finding a group to get something done. ESO does a great job in achieving this with the way zones and queues work. The only thing realy lacking is some sort of trial grouping system.

I could see it working if it were like a public dungeon, along with more engaging mechanics, rather than a required group dungeon

Mysticman

Most players are not interested in spending 30 to 60 minutes fighting their way through one single quest considering there are over a thousand quests in the game and more being added every year. Most players just want to do the quest collection their loot and XP and move on to the next quest. Asking the devs to create a single player game type of difficulty option in a multiple player type of game will never happen.

AlexanderDeLarge

Mysticman wrote: »

Most players are not interested in spending 30 to 60 minutes fighting their way through one single quest considering there are over a thousand quests in the game and more being added every year. Most players just want to do the quest collection their loot and XP and move on to the next quest. Asking the devs to create a single player game type of difficulty option in a multiple player type of game will never happen.

You're forgetting about the massive population that is already leveled up, fully geared and finally wants a challenge outside of weekly trial runs and veteran dungeons, assuming those people haven't stopped playing because of a lack of difficulty, which many have. The game is damn near unplayable above CP300 because it's such a bore fighting enemies that are supposed to be "intimidating".

How many times are we supposed to do a quest that takes 15-20 minutes of running around, only to find themselves in a phased instance with a boss that dies in three hits and "Quest Complete" flashes across our screen before people give up? The difficulty of the overland which we pay full expansion price for annually in addition to the Q4 zone DLCs is a joke and I have a pretty good feeling that the only people opposing this are either below 300 or somehow >CP300 but hardly clear 10K DPS (bad at the game).

Iccotak

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Mysticman wrote: »

Most players are not interested in spending 30 to 60 minutes fighting their way through one single quest considering there are over a thousand quests in the game and more being added every year. Most players just want to do the quest collection their loot and XP and move on to the next quest. Asking the devs to create a single player game type of difficulty option in a multiple player type of game will never happen.

You're forgetting about the massive population that is already leveled up, fully geared and finally wants a challenge outside of weekly trial runs and veteran dungeons, assuming those people haven't stopped playing because of a lack of difficulty, which many have. The game is damn near unplayable above CP300 because it's such a bore fighting enemies that are supposed to be "intimidating".

How many times are we supposed to do a quest that takes 15-20 minutes of running around, only to find themselves in a phased instance with a boss that dies in three hits and "Quest Complete" flashes across our screen before people give up? The difficulty of the overland which we pay full expansion price for annually in addition to the Q4 zone DLCs is a joke and I have a pretty good feeling that the only people opposing this are either below 300 or somehow >CP300 but hardly clear 10K DPS (bad at the game).

It’s think a major and primary step should be redoing all the Major Quest Bosses.

Including the mini-Bosses like Mannimarco and Zumogfum to the Major Bosses like Molag Bal, Nocturnal, Laatvulon, Kaalgrontiid, and Rada al-Saran.

codierussell

Who cares about overland, add a new difficulty to dungeons that drop gold rewards or perfected gear. Even something that adds a constant hp drain or half health would spice some of the base dungeons up and make the dlcs actually difficult. It would be a large task but relatively simple to implement. Even when they throw it out there if it is too hard to complete then they can adjust another patch and it can still be run on normal veteran. Like you literally could go half health, end boss drops gold items, and add a line of perfected stats. That would maybe take a day to come up with numbers for all the sets. For achievements make the new mode nightmare difficulty like alcast suggested and you get a title for the trifecta in this mode that has the boss name with nightmare at the end, i.e. Selene's Web trifecta in nightmare difficulty gives the title Selene's Nightmare and for your troubles you Selene drops you a nice gold Hiricine's ring. Done deal.

Massacre_Wurm

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

You're forgetting about the massive population that is already leveled up, fully geared and finally wants a challenge outside of weekly trial runs and veteran dungeons, assuming those people haven't stopped playing because of a lack of difficulty, which many have. The game is damn near unplayable above CP300 because it's such a bore fighting enemies that are supposed to be "intimidating".

It maybe boring for you.

But i hate locations stuffed with "challenging" mobs in other mmorpgs (especially in korean ) so you have to fight you way through each time you want to go from A to B.

And all those bosses there for new players. Not for cp810 with trial gear.