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With the addition of companions now more than ever a veteran overland is needed

Fata1moose
Fata1moose
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As the title says, overland questing has been far too easy for those of us that hit certain CP thresholds and have decent equipment. Even while purposely nerfing our characters through deallocation of CP and unequipping gear there's no forgetting proper rotations that also make the overland trivial. Trash dies in a couple of abilities and bosses die while they are still monologuing. Companions will see little use as support for experienced players outside of dungeons. A veteran overland would help questing feel more engaging and the zone updates more appealing. Companions could then be a valuable addition to even veteran players-- but their use in a veteran overland shouldn't then make even veteran content trivial.

With the new CP system and companions on the way now would be a good time to finally add a more difficult overland that provides a tough but fair challenge regardless of a companion being summoned or not.
  • robertthebard
    robertthebard
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    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.
  • Fata1moose
    Fata1moose
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    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.
  • robertthebard
    robertthebard
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    Fata1moose wrote: »
    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.

    It changes everything. I've seen this discussion before. Here, and in DDO. When they finally got it in DDO, and started complaining that it was too hard, I picked up a nice little year ban from the forums for suggesting exactly what you suggest here, "Play a lower difficulty".
  • Fata1moose
    Fata1moose
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    Fata1moose wrote: »
    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.

    It changes everything. I've seen this discussion before. Here, and in DDO. When they finally got it in DDO, and started complaining that it was too hard, I picked up a nice little year ban from the forums for suggesting exactly what you suggest here, "Play a lower difficulty".

    [snip]

    If difficulty was determined entirely on people complaining then we wouldn't have vet trials, dungeons or HMs either. But the great thing is we can have both a normal overland and a veteran overland just like group content has scalable difficulty. It just has to be done in such a way that a player is made aware through the UI if they switch to veteran.

    [Edited to remove Discussing Disciplinary Actions]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 29, 2021 3:30PM
  • NoSoup
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    It's called solo'ing vet group content.....

    Currently working my way through all the non-dlc dungeons....
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    What's needed now more than ever is the ability to toggle visibility of anything following other players around (pets, companions, etc). I do not want to see a sea of clones in every town.
  • joerginger
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    No. Absolutely not.
  • Mykriz
    Mykriz
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    Would love this. I don’t understand the hate. Just don’t play it if you don’t want to....
  • Faiza
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    You're not required to use a companion
  • Fata1moose
    Fata1moose
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    Faiza wrote: »
    You're not required to use a companion

    The game is easy now without companions. I want to use companions which would be better served in a veteran overland. Regardless I'm looking forward to companions due to story elements.
  • AyaDark
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    Fata1moose wrote: »
    As the title says, overland questing has been far too easy for those of us that hit certain CP thresholds and have decent equipment. Even while purposely nerfing our characters through deallocation of CP and unequipping gear there's no forgetting proper rotations that also make the overland trivial. Trash dies in a couple of abilities and bosses die while they are still monologuing. Companions will see little use as support for experienced players outside of dungeons. A veteran overland would help questing feel more engaging and the zone updates more appealing. Companions could then be a valuable addition to even veteran players-- but their use in a veteran overland shouldn't then make even veteran content trivial.

    With the new CP system and companions on the way now would be a good time to finally add a more difficult overland that provides a tough but fair challenge regardless of a companion being summoned or not.

    [snip]

    If you want more difficulty - go it naked.

    Go dunguans and etc.

    We went vDLC naked when we wanted more difficulty.

    Overland is easy content.

    For vet overland that is easy content but may be a little harder - go fungul grotto 1 veteran.

    And i do not need to strike mobs in overland not 2 but may be 3-4 seconds to get my flower or rock that i just find.

    I just understand you want to be veteran, but overland is to easy to be veteran even in dreams

    It was made for 10 level players.

    Want to be veteran - go dunguans

    [Edited to remove Spam]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 29, 2021 3:32PM
  • Fata1moose
    Fata1moose
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    AyaDark wrote: »
    Fata1moose wrote: »
    As the title says, overland questing has been far too easy for those of us that hit certain CP thresholds and have decent equipment. Even while purposely nerfing our characters through deallocation of CP and unequipping gear there's no forgetting proper rotations that also make the overland trivial. Trash dies in a couple of abilities and bosses die while they are still monologuing. Companions will see little use as support for experienced players outside of dungeons. A veteran overland would help questing feel more engaging and the zone updates more appealing. Companions could then be a valuable addition to even veteran players-- but their use in a veteran overland shouldn't then make even veteran content trivial.

    With the new CP system and companions on the way now would be a good time to finally add a more difficult overland that provides a tough but fair challenge regardless of a companion being summoned or not.

    [snip]

    If you want more difficulty - go it naked.

    Go dunguans and etc.

    We went vDLC naked when we wanted more difficulty.

    Overland is easy content.

    For vet overland that is easy content but may be a little harder - go fungul grotto 1 veteran.

    And i do not need to strike mobs in overland not 2 but may be 3-4 seconds to get my flower or rock that i just find.

    I just understand you want to be veteran, but overland is to easy to be veteran even in dreams

    It was made for 10 level players.

    Want to be veteran - go dunguans

    I already do vet group content and I enjoy it but I want a overland where mechanics actually matter too. Especially when new chapters release, some bosses have some cool mechs that would actually matter if balanced properly but in the current state they miss out on their potential. Artificially nerfing yourself is never a good solution, players shouldn't have to tie their own hands behind their back for a challenge.
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 29, 2021 3:32PM
  • SshadowSscale
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    Fata1moose wrote: »
    Fata1moose wrote: »
    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.

    It changes everything. I've seen this discussion before. Here, and in DDO. When they finally got it in DDO, and started complaining that it was too hard, I picked up a nice little year ban from the forums for suggesting exactly what you suggest here, "Play a lower difficulty".

    [snip]

    If difficulty was determined entirely on people complaining then we wouldn't have vet trials, dungeons or HMs either. But the great thing is we can have both a normal overland and a veteran overland just like group content has scalable difficulty. It just has to be done in such a way that a player is made aware through the UI if they switch to veteran.

    Nope, it was exactly that. The reason for the report was probably closer to "but he hurt my feelings by telling me what I've been telling players that want Elite quests toned down so they can solo it. Nobody's supposed to use our argument against us", and a snowflake mod that agreed with them.

    The truly great thing is we have content for everyone right now, to one extent or another, that doesn't require any additional time spent redoing stuff for a minority of the playerbase that may actually take advantage of it. All of this was discussed the last time this came up though. It costs money to do this, and there's no way to monetize it that won't be considered "P2W", or that may actually be P2W... So it's money out of pocket, for no return.

    Funny how it is perfectly fine for casual solo players to ask for a solo option for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc yet when people ask for an option to make overland more difficult aka a vet toggle it quickly gets shut down as not needed or eltist being greedy or whatever the reason..... just saying tho

    I wonder what ever could be the difference between the two. Large group of players benefitting from a minor change to the system that allows them to consume the content that is regularly overlooked and ignored vs a very vocal minority that really only seek to overhaul overland so they can corner drops.
    Fata1moose wrote: »
    Fata1moose wrote: »
    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    Then they could keep the overland toggled on Normal that changes nothing.

    It changes everything. I've seen this discussion before. Here, and in DDO. When they finally got it in DDO, and started complaining that it was too hard, I picked up a nice little year ban from the forums for suggesting exactly what you suggest here, "Play a lower difficulty".

    You weren't banned for telling someone to play on a lower difficulty it was either the manner in which you said it or DDO needs to find better moderators. But difficulty of the game certainly wasn't at fault for getting banned on a forum.

    If difficulty was determined entirely on people complaining then we wouldn't have vet trials, dungeons or HMs either. But the great thing is we can have both a normal overland and a veteran overland just like group content has scalable difficulty. It just has to be done in such a way that a player is made aware through the UI if they switch to veteran.

    Nope, it was exactly that. The reason for the report was probably closer to "but he hurt my feelings by telling me what I've been telling players that want Elite quests toned down so they can solo it. Nobody's supposed to use our argument against us", and a snowflake mod that agreed with them.

    The truly great thing is we have content for everyone right now, to one extent or another, that doesn't require any additional time spent redoing stuff for a minority of the playerbase that may actually take advantage of it. All of this was discussed the last time this came up though. It costs money to do this, and there's no way to monetize it that won't be considered "P2W", or that may actually be P2W... So it's money out of pocket, for no return.

    Funny how it is perfectly fine for casual solo players to ask for a solo option for dungeons trials ic cyrodil etc yet when people ask for an option to make overland more difficult aka a vet toggle it quickly gets shut down as not needed or eltist being greedy or whatever the reason..... just saying tho

    I wonder what ever could be the difference between the two. Large group of players benefitting from a minor change to the system that allows them to consume the content that is regularly overlooked and ignored vs a very vocal minority that really only seek to overhaul overland so they can corner drops.

    there is a reason we are asking for a toggle or a vet instance.... meaning the casuals can still have their easy overland while those of us who wants a harder challenge can get that too...... but once again only proofs my point.... it's fine to ask for a solo instance of dungeon and trials but not n vet instance of overland for some reason
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 29, 2021 3:32PM
  • mocap
    mocap
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    again all that [snip] advices like "go solo trials naked"...
    You guys don't understand nothing about vet overland, what exactly players ask for. You don't even try.

    There was a lot of good advices how to create vet overland which will not interference with low CP players.
    - food/drinks with negative bonus values or any other stats;
    - scroll with major/minor debuffs applying to player and only player;
    - PVP Battle Spirit analogue for PvE and personal toggle, affecting only the player who use it;

    In this case you don't need to play naked, disable CP or nerfing yourself in any other ways.

    [Edited to remove Rude Comments]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on January 29, 2021 2:09PM
  • Dankulakhan
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    I don't get why ppl want veteran overland. The TTK would be awful and add to this the fact that there are packs of mobs every two meters everywhere it's going to be a hellscape. The current TTK with decent gear and high CP is a blessing imo.
    Do you all really enjoy cluncky slow and broken eso combat so much?
  • Ryuvain
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    I don't get why ppl want veteran overland. The TTK would be awful and add to this the fact that there are packs of mobs every two meters everywhere it's going to be a hellscape. The current TTK with decent gear and high CP is a blessing imo.
    Do you all really enjoy cluncky slow and broken eso combat so much?

    Exactly. I really don't see the reasoning considering overworld is mostly for travel. Dungeons or world bosses are for difficulty.
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • Kwoung
    Kwoung
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    Ryuvain wrote: »
    I don't get why ppl want veteran overland. The TTK would be awful and add to this the fact that there are packs of mobs every two meters everywhere it's going to be a hellscape. The current TTK with decent gear and high CP is a blessing imo.
    Do you all really enjoy cluncky slow and broken eso combat so much?

    Exactly. I really don't see the reasoning considering overworld is mostly for travel. Dungeons or world bosses are for difficulty.

    Imagine all the poor citizens, they already struggle with the monsters how they are! It would be a devoid wasteland of dead bodies littering the roads and towns everywhere if they were made more powerful!
  • AyaDark
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    Just ask about button that as example do *2 drop but lower characters def/atc 2 times ?

    Or a food like that, or it is not a solution too ?

    Some greed potions :)
    Edited by AyaDark on January 29, 2021 9:36AM
  • preevious
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    Well,

    If the change is easy to implement : sure, do it. It makes people happy without forcing anyone to do anything.
    If it's hard to implement : there might be better use of resources . I can't judge that.
  • Ryuvain
    Ryuvain
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    preevious wrote: »
    Well,

    If the change is easy to implement : sure, do it. It makes people happy without forcing anyone to do anything.
    If it's hard to implement : there might be better use of resources . I can't judge that.

    Theres 3 ways I see:
    Overhauling all overland zones. (Lol)

    Create a separate phase for it that would end up ghost towns. Basically doubles server load.

    Lower the players own stats. Which honestly could already be done by themselves.
    Edited by Ryuvain on January 29, 2021 9:45AM
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • preevious
    preevious
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    Ryuvain wrote: »
    preevious wrote: »
    Well,

    If the change is easy to implement : sure, do it. It makes people happy without forcing anyone to do anything.
    If it's hard to implement : there might be better use of resources . I can't judge that.

    Theres 3 ways I see:
    Overhauling all overland zones. (Lol)

    Create a separate phase for it that would end up ghost towns. Basically doubles server load.

    Lower the players own stats. Which honestly could already be done by themselves.

    Indeed, but ... is that a big deal if some overland zones are ghost towns? I mean, people go there solo, or as premade for exploration/questing, anyway. Wouldn't change much.

    Maybe have the cities common and phase everything else?
  • Grandchamp1989
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    People said to try to nerf yourself for overland content if you find it too easy.

    So I did..

    I went in without any armor, jewelry or food. Only weapon and skill to finish the Alik'r Questline.

    It wasn't much of a challenge..

    And a lvl 50 character doesn't get any of the bonuses a lvl 10 character does... So no low level bonus either.

    The hardest challenge was running dry all the time with a 10k ressource pool. Every other attack had to be a heavy attack to get ressources back. So it basicly became skill-skill-heavy attack. It didn't add much of a challenge but just made things.. boring.

    Not sure what more I can do to add challeng. Maybe start punching the bosses instead?

    I would love an optional hardmode next to all the final bosses in the game for every Zone. Atleast make the final boss an OPTIONAL challenge...
  • Ryuvain
    Ryuvain
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    preevious wrote: »
    Ryuvain wrote: »
    preevious wrote: »
    Well,

    If the change is easy to implement : sure, do it. It makes people happy without forcing anyone to do anything.
    If it's hard to implement : there might be better use of resources . I can't judge that.

    Theres 3 ways I see:
    Overhauling all overland zones. (Lol)

    Create a separate phase for it that would end up ghost towns. Basically doubles server load.

    Lower the players own stats. Which honestly could already be done by themselves.

    Indeed, but ... is that a big deal if some overland zones are ghost towns? I mean, people go there solo, or as premade for exploration/questing, anyway. Wouldn't change much.

    Maybe have the cities common and phase everything else?

    With zos focused so hard on performance I don't think they will go for any of that.
    People said to try to nerf yourself for overland content if you find it too easy.

    So I did..

    I went in without any armor, jewelry or food. Only weapon and skill to finish the Alik'r Questline.

    It wasn't much of a challenge..

    And a lvl 50 character doesn't get any of the bonuses a lvl 10 character does... So no low level bonus either.

    The hardest challenge was running dry all the time with a 10k ressource pool. Every other attack had to be a heavy attack to get ressources back. So it basicly became skill-skill-heavy attack. It didn't add much of a challenge but just made things.. boring.

    Not sure what more I can do to add challeng. Maybe start punching the bosses instead?

    I would love an optional hardmode next to all the final bosses in the game for every Zone. Atleast make the final boss an OPTIONAL challenge...

    Your weapon is your highest source of damage. Also that would require overhauling almost the entire game. Why don't you solo dungeons? I do that to test builds.
    That one khajiit obsessed with werewolf behemoth and vampire lord. Lady Thorn is bae, dont @ me.
    Werewolf behemoth=vampire lord>blood scion>werewolf>vampire.
  • Snowy_Wyndra_Karn
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    I'm really wanting a companion for those dungeons I can't solo, however I do see the validity in your post.

    Takes literally nothing to kill overland mobs... and even base game WBs aren't that bad.
  • Michae
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    Once again I'm really stumped with that kind of request. What do you mean by higher difficulty? More hp on enemies? More damage on them so you die? Maybe some dungeon boss mechanics?

    Come on, ESO combat is hardly engaging, it's not Dark Souls or Prince of Persia Warrior Within. All the dodges, blocks and interruptions are really clunky and boring really. The longer fights might be fine in a dungeon where you have some mates to help you out and also it's not that long, hour tops in some dlc ones. In overland solo setting longer fights just get tedious after a while, so I don't really get what you want from them. People level up to the max, get all the cp, some meta gear and then they complain they have it easy. No ***, it's an rpg game, part of rpg games is levelling up so everything's easier. But yeah, if you want higher difficulty right now and that really floats your boat for enjoying overland questing try removing your cp, go in unmached gear/ naked or even better, roll a new character and don't speed level it, don't use boosts or food buffs. Take it slow. I finished Cadwell's Gold recently, going through both Gold and Silver took me over a year because I like taking things slow and I have limited time to play. Anyway I've seen a lot of people who just sprint through the quests, not listening to dialogues, not reading books, simply not playing attention. Not saying that you necessarily play that way, but yeah, imho enjoying overland is not really about the challenge, but rather about stories, lore and exploration.

    Sorry for rambling, it's hard to properly convey thoughts in written form sometimes.
    TL;DR ESO combat is not Dark Souls. Slow down and try to enjoy the content for what it is. =)
    "I bear the cruel weight of certainty. Total, absolute, relentless certainty. People rarely comprehend the luxury of doubt... the freedom that comes with indecision. I envy you."
    Sotha Sil

    @Michae PC/EU
  • robertthebard
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    mocap wrote: »
    again all that idiotic advices like "go solo trials naked"...
    You guys don't understand nothing about vet overland, what exactly players ask for. You don't even try.

    There was a lot of good advices how to create vet overland which will not interference with low CP players.
    - food/drinks with negative bonus values or any other stats;
    - scroll with major/minor debuffs applying to player and only player;
    - PVP Battle Spirit analogue for PvE and personal toggle, affecting only the player who use it;

    In this case you don't need to play naked, disable CP or nerfing yourself in any other ways.

    I understand perfectly:

    "Build the game to suit me, and then add more rewards, because if not, it's not worth my time".

    Sorry, did I step on your moment? I wonder, how many man hours it will take to redo every map in the game for a vet version? How many hours into testing all the random spawns? How many hours after implementation fine tuning it because "it's stupid hard"? You see, I've seen this play out before. This is exactly how it went down:

    Years campaigning for a harder mode than Elite in DDO quests. They finally get confirmation that it's in the pipe, and it's "but we're going to need better rewards, or it's not worth it". My question was "but I thought you wanted the challenge, isn't that the reward?", which was quite naive of me, yes? Then when it finally hit it was "this isn't what we wanted, it's "stupid hard"". The suggestion made by this crowd to people that wanted Elite quests tuned down was "Play a lower difficulty", but they sure didn't like hearing that turned on them when it came to Reaper mode. So then there's more man hours tweaking it because if not, the forums would catch fire, or flood.

    Again, better to leave it as it is.
  • WhereArtThouVampires
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    If solo players ever get solo story mode dungeons then I see no reason why Vet players can't get a higher difficulty overland toggle option.
  • Eedat
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    So I was running around Stonefalls this morning, trying to find a quest that I missed on the map, and saw a player die to three scamps. CP level on the player? 0. Nope.

    CP 0? You literally can't be CP 0. A new account that hits level 50 goes directly to CP 10 lol
    Edited by Eedat on January 29, 2021 12:14PM
  • Eedat
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    Isn't it hilarious how fast the "I should be able to play the game as I want" crowd (Edit: alright, obviously not all of them) does a complete 180 when people ask for the option of more difficulty? Weird how it's actually "the game should be tailored to my exact preferences only and everyone else's should be diminished". But please, tell us more about these "CP 0" new players you see dying to overworld mobs even though it's literally impossible to be CP 0. Weird how the most upvoted comment in the thread is literally factually impossible. Guess it doesn't matter when your sole intention is to spite others kappa
    Edited by Eedat on January 29, 2021 1:33PM
  • Faulgor
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    Agreed 100%. And it never ceases to baffle me how many people are against this, either out of fear (of what, impossible to say) or preemptive spite that somebody else might get something they don't.
    I don't get why ppl want veteran overland. The TTK would be awful and add to this the fact that there are packs of mobs every two meters everywhere it's going to be a hellscape. The current TTK with decent gear and high CP is a blessing imo.
    Do you all really enjoy cluncky slow and broken eso combat so much?
    If I didn't enjoy the combat at least somewhat, I'd just play the auction house all day to buy new style pages.
    Everything outside of the outfit system (and possibly housing I guess?) in this game is built towards combat. Equipment, crafting, leveling, skills, consumables, even questing requires combat most of the time. It's an RPG after all, not a point-and-click adventure.

    And yet, if you don't do veteran group instances, all of those mechanics are completely irrelevant in PvE, because you can beat all non-instanced PvE content with both hands tied behind your back. What's the point of upgrading my gear to gold if green is sufficient? Leveling Alchemy if you don't even need potions? Not even mentioning the inherent ludonarrative dissonance when the all-powerful villain in the story keels over in 2 hits.

    Imagine if you played Tetris, and the bottom line completed no matter where you put your piece or how you rotated it.
    That's just terrible game design.
    That's ESO's overland content.

    And if you just want to sit and watch the shapes rain down and the lines disappear, that's fine by me.
    But I, like many others, would like to actually play the game.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
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