please revert heals being group only in pvp (WE DID IT! its being rolled back!)

Raevyness

Don't wanna be salty over the whole thing, but as someone who primarily plays a healer... IM SALTY about these changes!

renne

Agalloch wrote: »

I hope they will revert the changes on 26 when they will patch the game.

Otherwise , the Midyear Mayhem event this year will be almost about scouting..

I tried to PvP for proper today and it was not pleasant. It is not pleasant at all to stand there watching people in your own alliance dying and know you can't help them because you didn't arrive at the same place at the same time, and have the EP and AD factions attacking stop and wait politely for everyone to group up so everyone was on an even playing field.

So I stopped trying that and instead started completing the scouting quests for turn in each day on each toon. About as fun as it's going to get, to be honest.

AlienMagi

Can we just get this reversed already? The community has spoken. Often and loudly.

Jaraal

AlienMagi wrote: »

Can we just get this reversed already? The community has spoken. Often and loudly.

The community spoke often and loudly about the terrible changes to Bosmer and Argonian lore and and having a skill we had earned and been using for years (Rapids) taken away on a whim, too..... but we were as ignored on those issues as we are on this one.

Raevyness

Jaraal wrote: »

AlienMagi wrote: »

Can we just get this reversed already? The community has spoken. Often and loudly.

The community spoke often and loudly about the terrible changes to Bosmer and Argonian lore and and having a skill we had earned and been using for years (Rapids) taken away on a whim, too..... but we were as ignored on those issues as we are on this one.

Super concerning as a player base, when the majority express a certain opinion (for change) and it goes ignored by the company/devs...
I've been playing since release & honestly, since all these changes I've played less and less. I once was a loyal sub, but after several large changes & constant crashing to which support had no answers for aside from "its a server issue". I dropped the sub.. I'm lucky to log in twice a week now.. The majority of my guild has gone onto other games now...

I'm sad, this game has potential BUT ZOS just doesn't like listening and taking on board the feedback of players.

peacenote

I've been thinking and I believe that a close equivalent to what's been done to healing that may be more relatable to all is this:

Imagine if Cyro were changed so that only the first group that tagged a keep door could add more siege. Your group, a pug with fairly experienced PvP Cyro regulars, arrives at the keep to help but can't stand in the battering ram and new seige placed does no damage.

You decide to go take a resource instead. Well, that's already been tagged by a solo player so standing on the flag does nothing. Your group is full, so you can't invite the player.

This is going nowhere fast, so your group pivots to defense. You go to a different keep, but your defensive seige, oil, etc. only hits at a max 12 people - the group of folks who tagged the door. Another group of 12 enemies joins the first to storm in but you can't attack any of them without re-grouping to change targets. Your group leader does this but you d/c while this is happening. You re-connect and the battle is still going but, being a pug, someone else got your spot in the group. When the battle ends you don't get any AP because you weren't in a group that did any damage to the other alliance.

Imagine how horrible and annoying that would be and how it would damage the cooperation of your alliance in Cyro. This is what they did, with healing.

Wing

peacenote wrote: »

I've been thinking and I believe that a close equivalent to what's been done to healing that may be more relatable to all is this:

Imagine if Cyro were changed so that only the first group that tagged a keep door could add more siege. Your group, a pug with fairly experienced PvP Cyro regulars, arrives at the keep to help but can't stand in the battering ram and new seige placed does no damage.

You decide to go take a resource instead. Well, that's already been tagged by a solo player so standing on the flag does nothing. Your group is full, so you can't invite the player.

This is going nowhere fast, so your group pivots to defense. You go to a different keep, but your defensive seige, oil, etc. only hits at a max 12 people - the group of folks who tagged the door. Another group of 12 enemies joins the first to storm in but you can't attack any of them without re-grouping to change targets. Your group leader does this but you d/c while this is happening. You re-connect and the battle is still going but, being a pug, someone else got your spot in the group. When the battle ends you don't get any AP because you weren't in a group that did any damage to the other alliance.

Imagine how horrible and annoying that would be and how it would damage the cooperation of your alliance in Cyro. This is what they did, with healing.

the problem is they have always balanced in sweeping roundabout ways then in small direct targeted ways.

only one singular heal is the main problem, Radiating Regeneration.

only one cleanse ability is the problem, Purge.



if they went in and said: "yeah we made purge and regen self only and tweaked their numbers accordingly"

BAM! massive lag and calculation drop on the server.

if problem skills pop up, you alter them, tweak them, fix them.

but no, instead we have: "hmmmm, this tire is a little low on this car, i guess we will have everyone carry the car around so the tire does not cause issues!"


i would love to know what Dev is the issue and refuses targeted skill changes. we have suffered months / years of a crap Cyro because of a refusal to alter some numbers on a few skills.

its infuriating

Tommy_The_Gun

And... they announced they are reverting it back !

renne

They just announced they've heard the feedback and are reverting the healing changes!!!!!!!

Vevvev

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

And... they announced they are reverting it back !

Yep!!! And all the sets that have proc conditions won't work in this new test of theirs. This will be interesting.

Cireous

Okay, please revert all the PVE group healing stuff too.

Wing

we did it folks! ty for the support

VaranisArano

That's delightful! I wish we'd find out what "behavioral changes" ZOS was aiming to accomplish, but it sounds like they didn't get the result they were hoping for.

Belegnole

Congrats on getting this reverted. Healers should be able to heal.

eso_lags

congrats, just like he said they listened to the forum QQ. But now im 100% convinced they will never fix this. To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

renne

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's delightful! I wish we'd find out what "behavioral changes" ZOS was aiming to accomplish, but it sounds like they didn't get the result they were hoping for.

While I wonder what the behavioural changes they wanted were, I think they realised the behavioural changes they got were people just not going to Cyro at all because it sucks to watch the person next to you die without being able to help.

Cirantille

Congrats people, now we can freely heal our allies and friends in their need without sending an invitation

I never healed since the changes, I think I will roll out my healers back to scene again

renne

I'd like to dedicate *checks notes* HEALING EVERYONE IN MY ALLIANCE and not just 11 other people to all the "it's not hard, jUsT jOiN/LeAd a gRoUp" and "lmao if ur solo how can you heal someone else?" commenters.

VaranisArano

eso_lags wrote: »

congrats, just like he said they listened to the forum QQ. But now im 100% convinced they will never fix this. To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Well, since ZOS said the group-only healing changes were implemented for behavioral reasons, not performance reasons, that part of it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd pull out the quote again, but it's been referenced several times already in this thread.

ujimax

I actually forgot about this change and was playing yesterday, mashing my heals for ten minutes before realizing you had to be in the same group as the people dying : )

NeillMcAttack

The lag is going to get worse, if it doesn’t, and I will be in there on and off-peak, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I’m fairly certain that more AOE checks from players can only make things worse......!

Dame_Scorpio

VaranisArano wrote: »

That's delightful! I wish we'd find out what "behavioral changes" ZOS was aiming to accomplish, but it sounds like they didn't get the result they were hoping for.

I wonder if they hoped the majority of people who don't always group up, would start doing so and this would be an easy way to mitigate the ball group complaints. However, as a primarily solo player, I just stopped playing Cyro altogether and I think a lot of others like me did the same.

renne

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The lag is going to get worse, if it doesn’t, and I will be in there on and off-peak, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I’m fairly certain that more AOE checks from players can only make things worse......!

They LITERALLY said it had no significant impact on performance as mentioned like 100 other times in this and many other threads and were doing it for behavioural reasons, but by all means, beat that same tired horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and etc.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

I actually prefer having to be in a group to get healed, one thing I hate is being healed by randoms causing my character to draw out their weapon when idle, it is annoying.

renne

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I actually prefer having to be in a group to get healed, one thing I hate is being healed by randoms causing my character to draw out their weapon when idle, it is annoying.

NeillMcAttack

renne wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The lag is going to get worse, if it doesn’t, and I will be in there on and off-peak, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I’m fairly certain that more AOE checks from players can only make things worse......!

They LITERALLY said it had no significant impact on performance as mentioned like 100 other times in this and many other threads and were doing it for behavioural reasons, but by all means, beat that same tired horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and etc.

Watch it again! She said it didn’t improve the overall player experience.... again. They are testing the game without procs, they have no idea what the main cause is. And you shouldn’t trust people that work in marketing!

renne

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

renne wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The lag is going to get worse, if it doesn’t, and I will be in there on and off-peak, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I’m fairly certain that more AOE checks from players can only make things worse......!

They LITERALLY said it had no significant impact on performance as mentioned like 100 other times in this and many other threads and were doing it for behavioural reasons, but by all means, beat that same tired horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and etc.

Watch it again! She said it didn’t improve the overall player experience.... again. They are testing the game without procs, they have no idea what the main cause is. And you shouldn’t trust people that work in marketing!

Um what. You come into a thread about healing and claim it being reverted is going to be a performance disaster and then QUOTE THE STREAM YOURSELF that the change had no performance impact. What are you even saying then? You're agreeing with me I guess??? Thanks!

Dark_Lord_Kuro

We did it we won !!!!!!

VaranisArano

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

renne wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The lag is going to get worse, if it doesn’t, and I will be in there on and off-peak, I will be the first to say I was wrong. But I’m fairly certain that more AOE checks from players can only make things worse......!

They LITERALLY said it had no significant impact on performance as mentioned like 100 other times in this and many other threads and were doing it for behavioural reasons, but by all means, beat that same tired horse over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and etc.

Watch it again! She said it didn’t improve the overall player experience.... again. They are testing the game without procs, they have no idea what the main cause is. And you shouldn’t trust people that work in marketing!

I was willing to give this theory a modicum of credence when we still had group-only heals and you being correct only required Gina lying to the PVP community once.

We've now hit the point in which you say Gina is lying twice because Marketing, all the while the group-only heals are being reverted.

Sorry, but no.

ol_BANK_lo

Wing wrote: »

i dont mind heals within a group only hitting the group, thats fine even if its a dumb band aid that solves nothing, like giving a musician a spoon on the titanic and being like "NAILED IT, problem solved, next!"

but i wandered into Cyro as a fresh level 10 to look at the height of the flames on that dumpster fire after not going in for around a month.

went in as a warden with a resto staff, no sets, with the 3 base skills, first two resto skills, and the heal tree ult.

i was fully aware of the group heal changes but kind of wanted to really feel it, as i have exclusively played Cyro solo since launch i wanted to throw myself into the changes.

needless to say, its garbage.

-try to regen people around you? nope.
-cast illustrious healing on people hit by siege? nope.
-enchanted growth on noob burning to death in oil? nope.
-secluded grove ult on a group getting run down by a blob? nothing.

on the flip side

blob groups

stack on crown? yup.
spam only purge on everyone? yup.
spam radiating on everyone? yup.

[snip]

EDIT:

I want to see twitch streams of ESO devs playing pvp, stream it! show us you all playing it live, and then look us in the eye (through the camera) and explain!

[Edited to remove Bashing]

I didn't realize they reverted this. That may explain why performance went in the crapper again.