please revert heals being group only in pvp (WE DID IT! its being rolled back!)

Reaper_00

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Also lets not forget that this will just be a testing period not the end solution. They might bring group only healing back.

Not necessarily. In the stream they said that any performance gain that group only healing could possibly bring was outweighed by the player experience of not being able to heal someone standing right next to you. It's 4 hours and 17 minutes into the stream if anyone is interested.

Araneae6537

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

How about:

If you're in a group, your heals target only group members.
If you're not in a group, your heals target anyone in range.

That would keep *some* of the good effects, and remove the bad effects.

I'm chuffed that I'm no longer totalty useless if spamming LFG left me without a group. This would also be a change I could live with though. Interesting concept.

I would prefer it to be ALLIES as the skills still say rather than group only even if I’m in a group, as often there may be more than one smaller group in a fight and I want to help my allies who need it most.

At one point I would have suggested having an option in gameplay settings to make heals group-only but, if I understand correctly, that would mean an extra check every time anyone clicks a skill. So maybe additional skill morphs would please everyone? Or maybe that will be an option that could be selected in the new CP system?

Sgrug

THANK YOU for allowing healing outside of groups again!

eso_lags

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

congrats, just like he said they listened to the forum QQ. But now im 100% convinced they will never fix this. To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Well, since ZOS said the group-only healing changes were implemented for behavioral reasons, not performance reasons, that part of it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd pull out the quote again, but it's been referenced several times already in this thread.

Obviously it was both, and either way its bad for the game. But if enough people complain enough they will change things. I did feel bad for healers, but it was a great change. But I didnt expect it to last long, especially with all the complaining. Why would zos want people to think for themselves by either joining groups or building to heal themselves instead of expected to get brainlessly healed in every fight. But what i did expect was for them to try something else instead of just reverting it all together. Sometimes I give zenimax way too much credit, they dont do small incremental changes over time. Only large drastic changes, and then reverting those changes back to normal instead of continued adjustments. Idk why i thought this one would be different.

Fine, I'll go get the quote. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil

"In reviewing the data for all the different tests, we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience. As a result, we will not be making any major changes at this time.

That said, there were a few elements from the various tests that we’ve decided to enable for both PC and console for the foreseeable future, as we liked the behavioral changes they brought. Starting on Monday, November 9 for consoles and November 16 for PC, we will be limiting group sizes in Cyrodiil to 12 players, and all ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group."


But still people say: "Obviously, it was both"

No, that's not obvious to anyone who's not seeking to pin performance problems on healers when ZOS pretty clearly stated that none of the tested changes had a significant enough impact on the overall player experience.

You can complain about it because you don't like your opponents getting extra heals - that's fair. You can complain about it because you feel it makes healing unbalanced - that's a fair argument too. But complaining about it because Gina was obviously lying (twice now) that group only healing didn't have much if an impact on the overall player experience of performance is not doing any favors for your credibility.

The fact that you care about credibility on the eso forums is hilarious. And again, did you read what I wrote? Or are you one of those people that only reads a sentence or two, you seem like one of those people.

I said;

To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Its just my experience. The last few months were better. Performance was still abysmal but a lot of the time things were good. Compared to it always being terrible before this. And I guess we will see when they change it, but I dont see how anyone with any brains could think that one scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep all getting spammed with aoe healing, is the same as another scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep but only 20 of those people are getting spammed with aoe heals.

Im sorry but i dont always take things at face value, like some people, and i ask questions, unlike some people. That doesnt make sense to me when of course that would be more actions and inputs being calculated by the server, in a game that clearly cant handle what it has going on already. So obviously this would make me question if it would be worse, just question not say for certain that it will.

And your quoted post just proves my point.

we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience.

we liked the behavioral changes they brought.

Mhm. So there was an improvement in performance, although they didnt find it to be enough to implement certain changes. And im pretty sure there were other changes as well with that test, but the ones the stuck with were healing and group size. Hmm, almost like killing two birds with one stone. And even if they only went through with the change for the sake of behavior it would still have the side effect of improving performance issues, even if it was too small for them to go through with the changes just because of that. Even if it was just a small improvement. And on top of it they liked it enough to do it, but gave in to complaining on the forums without looking for a reasonable alternative, which is always sad to see.

Regardless it did improve it so it was both. Maybe you're the one with a credibility issue 😂

tl;dr Im right, and i dont know what you're even arguing about. I basically said hopefully this doesn't impact performance negatively and then everyone will win, for the most part. We be taking 2 steps back in the fight for less brainless pvp, but theres a lot more issues than people getting carried by healers. So it would essentially be good for everyone, healers and pvp players in general. Really not that big of a deal.

SydneyGrey

Thanks for reverting this change to heals, ZOS. I'm very happy today.

VaranisArano

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

congrats, just like he said they listened to the forum QQ. But now im 100% convinced they will never fix this. To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Well, since ZOS said the group-only healing changes were implemented for behavioral reasons, not performance reasons, that part of it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd pull out the quote again, but it's been referenced several times already in this thread.

Obviously it was both, and either way its bad for the game. But if enough people complain enough they will change things. I did feel bad for healers, but it was a great change. But I didnt expect it to last long, especially with all the complaining. Why would zos want people to think for themselves by either joining groups or building to heal themselves instead of expected to get brainlessly healed in every fight. But what i did expect was for them to try something else instead of just reverting it all together. Sometimes I give zenimax way too much credit, they dont do small incremental changes over time. Only large drastic changes, and then reverting those changes back to normal instead of continued adjustments. Idk why i thought this one would be different.

Fine, I'll go get the quote. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil

"In reviewing the data for all the different tests, we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience. As a result, we will not be making any major changes at this time.

That said, there were a few elements from the various tests that we’ve decided to enable for both PC and console for the foreseeable future, as we liked the behavioral changes they brought. Starting on Monday, November 9 for consoles and November 16 for PC, we will be limiting group sizes in Cyrodiil to 12 players, and all ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group."


But still people say: "Obviously, it was both"

No, that's not obvious to anyone who's not seeking to pin performance problems on healers when ZOS pretty clearly stated that none of the tested changes had a significant enough impact on the overall player experience.

You can complain about it because you don't like your opponents getting extra heals - that's fair. You can complain about it because you feel it makes healing unbalanced - that's a fair argument too. But complaining about it because Gina was obviously lying (twice now) that group only healing didn't have much if an impact on the overall player experience of performance is not doing any favors for your credibility.

The fact that you care about credibility on the eso forums is hilarious. And again, did you read what I wrote? Or are you one of those people that only reads a sentence or two, you seem like one of those people.

I said;

To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Its just my experience. The last few months were better. Performance was still abysmal but a lot of the time things were good. Compared to it always being terrible before this. And I guess we will see when they change it, but I dont see how anyone with any brains could think that one scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep all getting spammed with aoe healing, is the same as another scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep but only 20 of those people are getting spammed with aoe heals.

Im sorry but i dont always take things at face value, like some people, and i ask questions, unlike some people. That doesnt make sense to me when of course that would be more actions and inputs being calculated by the server, in a game that clearly cant handle what it has going on already. So obviously this would make me question if it would be worse, just question not say for certain that it will.

And your quoted post just proves my point.

we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience.

we liked the behavioral changes they brought.

Mhm. So there was an improvement in performance, although they didnt find it to be enough to implement certain changes. And im pretty sure there were other changes as well with that test, but the ones the stuck with were healing and group size. Hmm, almost like killing two birds with one stone. And even if they only went through with the change for the sake of behavior it would still have the side effect of improving performance issues, even if it was too small for them to go through with the changes just because of that. Even if it was just a small improvement. And on top of it they liked it enough to do it, but gave in to complaining on the forums without looking for a reasonable alternative, which is always sad to see.

Regardless it did improve it so it was both. Maybe you're the one with a credibility issue 😂

tl;dr Im right, and i dont know what you're even arguing about. I basically said hopefully this doesn't impact performance negatively and then everyone will win, for the most part. We be taking 2 steps back in the fight for less brainless pvp, but theres a lot more issues than people getting carried by healers. So it would essentially be good for everyone, healers and pvp players in general. Really not that big of a deal.

I didn't discuss your points about the future of healing because, well, that's an unending balance debate. If you think healing is brainless or unbalanced, well, that's your opinion, based on your experience, and I'm not looking to debate you over that.

As for the quote, it seems like any improvement is sufficient for you to claim that ZOS obviously did the group-only heals for both behavioral and performance reasons. No matter that it was small enough to register on a spreadsheet but not with the overall player experience.

If that's what you meant, then, sure. ZOS made the change to both improve performance for their spreadsheets and change the behavior of their players.


While I see it as a case of "Spreadsheets don't play in Cyrodiil, players do. Spreadsheets saw improvements. Players didn't."

So in the line you chopped off the quote: "As a result, we will not be making any major changes at this time."

Why is that distinction important to me? Because a number of players saying ZOS did this for performance reasons are claiming that this was done to improve the overall player experience, not just for spreadsheets. They also argue that reverting the change will have a direct negative impact on performance for players. That's just directly contrary to what ZOS said, twice now. (And if that's not what you are saying, great, I'm not talking about you.)

When I talk about performance in Cyrodiil, I care about players. If group-only heals actually helped performance in the overall player experience, I'd support it! But it doesn't - ZOS said that twice now - and I'm not sacrificing the freedom of healers to heal their alliance mates for the sake of a spreadsheet.

Now, you can discount my thoughts as someone taking ZOS at face value and failing to ask questions, but in that case, I suppose we'd best agree to disagree and drop it since we'll get nowhere fast.

Thealteregoroman

Does anyone know if this change is coming with the Mid Year Mayhem tomorrow for consoles?

danno8

Lol, my sub just expired 4 days ago since I was pretty disenchanted with the change and finally decided to play other games for the foreseeable future.

Good to see they listen to feedback/logic and are reverting this terrible, unfun, nonsensical change. I will resub for sure in the future, but most likely not until the expansion comes out.

Excited to get back into Cyrodiil eventually!

eso_lags

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

congrats, just like he said they listened to the forum QQ. But now im 100% convinced they will never fix this. To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Well, since ZOS said the group-only healing changes were implemented for behavioral reasons, not performance reasons, that part of it shouldn't be a big deal. I'd pull out the quote again, but it's been referenced several times already in this thread.

Obviously it was both, and either way its bad for the game. But if enough people complain enough they will change things. I did feel bad for healers, but it was a great change. But I didnt expect it to last long, especially with all the complaining. Why would zos want people to think for themselves by either joining groups or building to heal themselves instead of expected to get brainlessly healed in every fight. But what i did expect was for them to try something else instead of just reverting it all together. Sometimes I give zenimax way too much credit, they dont do small incremental changes over time. Only large drastic changes, and then reverting those changes back to normal instead of continued adjustments. Idk why i thought this one would be different.

Fine, I'll go get the quote. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544305/details-for-aoe-testing-in-cyrodiil

"In reviewing the data for all the different tests, we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience. As a result, we will not be making any major changes at this time.

That said, there were a few elements from the various tests that we’ve decided to enable for both PC and console for the foreseeable future, as we liked the behavioral changes they brought. Starting on Monday, November 9 for consoles and November 16 for PC, we will be limiting group sizes in Cyrodiil to 12 players, and all ally-targeted abilities will only apply to those in your group."


But still people say: "Obviously, it was both"

No, that's not obvious to anyone who's not seeking to pin performance problems on healers when ZOS pretty clearly stated that none of the tested changes had a significant enough impact on the overall player experience.

You can complain about it because you don't like your opponents getting extra heals - that's fair. You can complain about it because you feel it makes healing unbalanced - that's a fair argument too. But complaining about it because Gina was obviously lying (twice now) that group only healing didn't have much if an impact on the overall player experience of performance is not doing any favors for your credibility.

The fact that you care about credibility on the eso forums is hilarious. And again, did you read what I wrote? Or are you one of those people that only reads a sentence or two, you seem like one of those people.

I said;

To say that 10 players spamming heals on a hundred players does the same to performance as a few players healing in their groups is just insane. Truly insane.

Well at least this will make people happy and hopefully it doesnt make things too much worse than they already are. Performance seemed better this patch, sure when in a pop locked campaign its gets unplayable, which is honestly something they should look into but dont, but over all I could actually pvp this patch after quitting for months because it was always unplayable. Ill be happy if the healing change wasnt the problem, and it doesnt make performance worse, at least then everyone wins. Thats the best case scenario.

Its just my experience. The last few months were better. Performance was still abysmal but a lot of the time things were good. Compared to it always being terrible before this. And I guess we will see when they change it, but I dont see how anyone with any brains could think that one scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep all getting spammed with aoe healing, is the same as another scenario, where you have 100 people in a keep but only 20 of those people are getting spammed with aoe heals.

Im sorry but i dont always take things at face value, like some people, and i ask questions, unlike some people. That doesnt make sense to me when of course that would be more actions and inputs being calculated by the server, in a game that clearly cant handle what it has going on already. So obviously this would make me question if it would be worse, just question not say for certain that it will.

And your quoted post just proves my point.

we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes. While these improvements look good on a spreadsheet, they do not have a significant enough impact on improving the overall player experience.

we liked the behavioral changes they brought.

Mhm. So there was an improvement in performance, although they didnt find it to be enough to implement certain changes. And im pretty sure there were other changes as well with that test, but the ones the stuck with were healing and group size. Hmm, almost like killing two birds with one stone. And even if they only went through with the change for the sake of behavior it would still have the side effect of improving performance issues, even if it was too small for them to go through with the changes just because of that. Even if it was just a small improvement. And on top of it they liked it enough to do it, but gave in to complaining on the forums without looking for a reasonable alternative, which is always sad to see.

Regardless it did improve it so it was both. Maybe you're the one with a credibility issue 😂

tl;dr Im right, and i dont know what you're even arguing about. I basically said hopefully this doesn't impact performance negatively and then everyone will win, for the most part. We be taking 2 steps back in the fight for less brainless pvp, but theres a lot more issues than people getting carried by healers. So it would essentially be good for everyone, healers and pvp players in general. Really not that big of a deal.

I didn't discuss your points about the future of healing because, well, that's an unending balance debate. If you think healing is brainless or unbalanced, well, that's your opinion, based on your experience, and I'm not looking to debate you over that.

As for the quote, it seems like any improvement is sufficient for you to claim that ZOS obviously did the group-only heals for both behavioral and performance reasons. No matter that it was small enough to register on a spreadsheet but not with the overall player experience.

If that's what you meant, then, sure. ZOS made the change to both improve performance for their spreadsheets and change the behavior of their players.


While I see it as a case of "Spreadsheets don't play in Cyrodiil, players do. Spreadsheets saw improvements. Players didn't."

So in the line you chopped off the quote: "As a result, we will not be making any major changes at this time."

Why is that distinction important to me? Because a number of players saying ZOS did this for performance reasons are claiming that this was done to improve the overall player experience, not just for spreadsheets. They also argue that reverting the change will have a direct negative impact on performance for players. That's just directly contrary to what ZOS said, twice now. (And if that's not what you are saying, great, I'm not talking about you.)

When I talk about performance in Cyrodiil, I care about players. If group-only heals actually helped performance in the overall player experience, I'd support it! But it doesn't - ZOS said that twice now - and I'm not sacrificing the freedom of healers to heal their alliance mates for the sake of a spreadsheet.

Now, you can discount my thoughts as someone taking ZOS at face value and failing to ask questions, but in that case, I suppose we'd best agree to disagree and drop it since we'll get nowhere fast.

Thats about the only accurate thing you've said. I do not take a company at face value that has lied or exaggerated things countless times in the past. No, sorry ill judge for myself. If im lagging at 2pm in a 2 bar server next update, well then Ill start to wonder what happened and what changed. And obviosuley I take some things they say at face value, but when it comes to performance they have been very disingenuous and deceptive in the past, so no certainly not with that.

Like this line "we did see some marked improvements in performance – on average, there was approximately a 25% reduction in the magnitude of server frame spikes and a slight reduction in the frequency of those spikes" says its a start. Like I said way earlier in this thread, it might be a combination of things that fixes performance. There might be casualties along the way. They always like to say "this isnt the silver bullet" well no ***. But when you make a 25% reduction on server frame spikes here and there, maybe make some other changes, and maybe in time things get significantly better.

So ya pal ill take a very small improvement now that may add to the greater good in the future at the cost of players having to play with a bit more sense. But again, it doesnt matter, they reverted the changes so it is what it is.

aetherial_heavenn

Thanks all who contributed rational posts explaining all the ways this affected our play.
Thanks for the endless patient responses to reflexive "it's a performance improvement" by pointing out according to ZoS this was NOT the case, and that performance had nothing to do with changes. ie those who corrected the few in this thread who just listened to the streamers advocating this change so they could continue one v X weak solo players.
Thanks to those asking 'how would zerg surfing aoe spamming solo DPS feel if they were forced to group to do any damage for their alliance.'

And thanks ZoS for listening (and perhaps trying it out live to see for themselves?)
HOORAY

DarcyMardin

Although I heard what was said about this in the stream last night, the “group-heals-only being reverted” is not in the PTS patch notes (unless I missed it). Does anyone know when this welcome change will be taking place?

Thealteregoroman

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Although I heard what was said about this in the stream last night, the “group-heals-only being reverted” is not in the PTS patch notes (unless I missed it). Does anyone know when this welcome change will be taking place?

Ive been searching all morning cause mid year mayhem is tomrrow lol

eso_lags

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Thanks all who contributed rational posts explaining all the ways this affected our play.
Thanks for the endless patient responses to reflexive "it's a performance improvement" by pointing out according to ZoS this was NOT the case, and that performance had nothing to do with changes. ie those who corrected the few in this thread who just listened to the streamers advocating this change so they could continue one v X weak solo players.
Thanks to those asking 'how would zerg surfing aoe spamming solo DPS feel if they were forced to group to do any damage for their alliance.'

And thanks ZoS for listening (and perhaps trying it out live to see for themselves?)
HOORAY

Dont forget to thank all the weak solo players who will continue to be potatoes because the game gives them no incentive to improve. Actually ill do it, thank you for being there for us to kill.

Ryath_Waylander

Well, if it isn't being reverted in time for midyear mayhem, my healer is now geared up to try a bit of murder as a vengeful Templar bomber.

Raevyness

eso_lags wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Thanks all who contributed rational posts explaining all the ways this affected our play.
Thanks for the endless patient responses to reflexive "it's a performance improvement" by pointing out according to ZoS this was NOT the case, and that performance had nothing to do with changes. ie those who corrected the few in this thread who just listened to the streamers advocating this change so they could continue one v X weak solo players.
Thanks to those asking 'how would zerg surfing aoe spamming solo DPS feel if they were forced to group to do any damage for their alliance.'

And thanks ZoS for listening (and perhaps trying it out live to see for themselves?)
HOORAY

Dont forget to thank all the weak solo players who will continue to be potatoes because the game gives them no incentive to improve. Actually ill do it, thank you for being there for us to kill.

Let's face it, if those "potatoes" weren't there, if they all "improved" as you say, you'd be crying for a Nerf because people are too OP. So let's be honest here.

Also, let's be fair, all of us have lives away from the PC. We don't all have hours on end to spend on improving. Also, if your from Australia, certain activities on eso are very hard (trails etc) which run in peak time.. Very hard to get people outside these hours..

Jaraal

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Although I heard what was said about this in the stream last night, the “group-heals-only being reverted” is not in the PTS patch notes (unless I missed it). Does anyone know when this welcome change will be taking place?

Yeah I couldn't find any written information on when it will be reverted anywhere. Hopefully it doesn't become one of those forgotten promises.

rpa

The one question I'd like to get answerered is: What were the behaviour changes ZoS liked?
That some people made optimized 12 player groups for PvP? That solo healers and ungrouped randoms quit?

itscompton

Jaraal wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

Although I heard what was said about this in the stream last night, the “group-heals-only being reverted” is not in the PTS patch notes (unless I missed it). Does anyone know when this welcome change will be taking place?

Yeah I couldn't find any written information on when it will be reverted anywhere. Hopefuully it doesn't become one of those forgotten promises.

Well they didn't include the changes to group size and healing in the patch notes for the last update so they probably figure they don't need to include any patch notes this time to say they changed healing back. Because ZOS logic.

superbiquette

rpa wrote: »

The one question I'd like to get answerered is: What were the behaviour changes ZoS liked?
That some people made optimized 12 player groups for PvP? That solo healers and ungrouped randoms quit?

i don't understand too , i've started in this game playing in gankers guild , you know sometimes really just don't care of the realm just fun in ganking people and sometimes roaming for the realm but i was allowed to help people outside my group during nighblades makes their job and hey! when we see a solo healer it's more like " great free ap on feet " . After was in a guild realm focused with very efficient ballgroup ( I AM VERY SORRY OF INFLICT YOU MY ENGLISH SKILLS ) , 8 to 12 players only other ballgroup or well leaded big groups can stop you so solo healer = free ap , always have to deal with solo or random or wathever players grouped or ungrouped , this is a mmorpg not some medfan counterstrike. People just use the possibilities of the game like they want, why suddlently need to change skills used since the begining? If you want group heal ask for group heal , if not targeting disturb you too much ask for targeting heal rather than changing the game for some players.
Now i don't play in group ,Zos make the game more beautiful and i can't change my computer so it's frustating playing in a group and being not able to produce what you want , and so what? i don't blame Zos of making the game more beautiful , it's great for the players but what this mean making the skills not work or saying how people have to play a mmorpg? Damn' if you're afraid of solohealers i don't know what to told you and if you don't find some for group it's the same issue. I play mmo since DAOC they always have been single target cast, group cast, zone cast nothing amazing , ESO allow you different gameplay than in other mmorpg for years now so why breaking zone cast this way , but it's true that in the other games you can be in a group and focus strong single heals on people outside your group , it's a little beat more hard on this game to do the same and thats a funny feature of ESO so i'm happy that you reverse it Zos , thanks a lot ( if it's true ) but like rpa i'd like to understand : what were the behaviour changes zos liked?

PS : ZOS unnerf templar heals!

QuebraRegra

Raevyness wrote: »

HEALERS UNITE!!! 🙌

We did it guys!! They've listened & are reverting the changes!!

Let us wash our hands of this mess & never speak of it again! 😂😂

Keep on healin' on 🙏

I missed it.. did they really? WONDERFUl ZOS (I just created a new alt last night).

QuebraRegra

eso_lags wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

Thanks all who contributed rational posts explaining all the ways this affected our play.
Thanks for the endless patient responses to reflexive "it's a performance improvement" by pointing out according to ZoS this was NOT the case, and that performance had nothing to do with changes. ie those who corrected the few in this thread who just listened to the streamers advocating this change so they could continue one v X weak solo players.
Thanks to those asking 'how would zerg surfing aoe spamming solo DPS feel if they were forced to group to do any damage for their alliance.'

And thanks ZoS for listening (and perhaps trying it out live to see for themselves?)
HOORAY

Dont forget to thank all the weak solo players who will continue to be potatoes because the game gives them no incentive to improve. Actually ill do it, thank you for being there for us to kill.

LOL, you mad at potatoes bro?

Skcarkden

So...... is this why I seemingly can't 'support' other players in pve content?

I was certain Molten Armaments should be applying to other players right next to me in pve zones but they don't. Didn't it used to work on players in pve too? Is it really a case of "we ruined pve too for the sake of pvp behavoiral changes" ?

I hope they areen't being literaly and just looking at healing only and leaving out all ally supports.

VaranisArano

Skcarkden wrote: »

So...... is this why I seemingly can't 'support' other players in pve content?

I was certain Molten Armaments should be applying to other players right next to me in pve zones but they don't. Didn't it used to work on players in pve too? Is it really a case of "we ruined pve too for the sake of pvp behavoiral changes" ?

I hope they areen't being literaly and just looking at healing only and leaving out all ally supports.

In PVP, its all heals and ally-targeted buffs. I might be wrong, but I thought the change was PVP only.

Do you maybe have visual effects for your allies turned off? Also, ZOS has been toning down what visual effects you see in PVE too in order to help performance for a while now.

Skcarkden

VaranisArano wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

So...... is this why I seemingly can't 'support' other players in pve content?

I was certain Molten Armaments should be applying to other players right next to me in pve zones but they don't. Didn't it used to work on players in pve too? Is it really a case of "we ruined pve too for the sake of pvp behavoiral changes" ?

I hope they areen't being literaly and just looking at healing only and leaving out all ally supports.

In PVP, its all heals and ally-targeted buffs. I might be wrong, but I thought the change was PVP only.

Do you maybe have visual effects for your allies turned off? Also, ZOS has been toning down what visual effects you see in PVE too in order to help performance for a while now.

honestly i don't know now, problem is my memory might be working with the knowledge of ally heals off... but i swear outside of using snyergies and a skill passive for using them triggering heals, i don't think i've been getting healed by players either at world bosses etc.

But maybe i'm misremembering? i'm almost certain it's not applying molten armaments on others in pve zones too because i have all combat figures turned on and there's no jump in damage from other players

FENGRUSH

It's time to rise up and make a 60bman unkillable wall of heals. We will show them behavioral change!

Wing

FENGRUSH wrote: »

It's time to rise up and make a 60bman unkillable wall of heals. We will show them behavioral change!

@FENGRUSH

you PvP enough and know darn well that being able to kill large numbers has less to do with the actual numbers and more so on specific targeted skills and mechanics.

i get the idea behind not wanting one person to kill a zerg.
and i get that zergs need to be toned down.

not allowing random solos to heal each other was not the answer and you know it, nor are those players the problem. in fact once again you know that killing those players is rather easy.

if AoE healing is the problem, it needs to be a targeted change (we both know what skill)
and if mass purge is over enabling ball groups, once again, targeted change.

Jaraal

Wing wrote: »

if AoE healing is the problem, it needs to be a targeted change (we both know what skill)
and if mass purge is over enabling ball groups, once again, targeted change.

How about an all-access Negate added to Alliance War skills?

Wing

Jaraal wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

if AoE healing is the problem, it needs to be a targeted change (we both know what skill)
and if mass purge is over enabling ball groups, once again, targeted change.

How about an all-access Negate added to Alliance War skills?

honestly would prefer that over war horn, could you imagine if everyone could throw out negates?

but i would honestly prefer some surgical skill tuning then once again ZOS replace a wall to fix a squeaky window.

the thing that always gets me is it should be more simple and less invasive to just nerf a single skill rather then alter an entire archetypes functionality. but i guess not.

aetherial_heavenn

Wing wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

It's time to rise up and make a 60bman unkillable wall of heals. We will show them behavioral change!

@FENGRUSH

you PvP enough and know darn well that being able to kill large numbers has less to do with the actual numbers and more so on specific targeted skills and mechanics.

i get the idea behind not wanting one person to kill a zerg.
and i get that zergs need to be toned down.

not allowing random solos to heal each other was not the answer and you know it, nor are those players the problem. in fact once again you know that killing those players is rather easy.

if AoE healing is the problem, it needs to be a targeted change (we both know what skill)
and if mass purge is over enabling ball groups, once again, targeted change.

YEP!!!

SOME very vocal 1 vXe rs and streamers hate this change reversal. Most other players I speak to are very happy. Even most regular small group PvPers. Wiping zergs of newblets is still a piece of cake for most voice groups. This was not the fix we were looking for.

VaranisArano

I'll note that I've seen two forum posts during Midyear Mayhem asking essentially "Are my heals bugged? I'm not healing anyone outside of my group..."

I know that MYM brings a lot of new and casual players to Cyrodiil, but it goes to show that group-only heals are a very unintuitive change.