Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣

etchedpixels · December 2020

JKorr wrote: »

Most efficient way? Are we getting paid for how much or how many times we complete content? Is there a list of posted requirements where you're only allowed to play if you do X amount of content in Y amount of time? When did the game get turned into a job that has to be completed in the "most efficient way"?

- For the undaunted event you wanted to kill as many final bosses as fast as possible to collect all the styles and rewards so people farmed FG1 speedrunning it to the final boss, kill, exit, repeat until inventory full then list all the duplicates on the guild store. That one was not so bad because you didn't have to go via the random queue and soloing the final fg1 boss isn't very hard for an end game player anyway.

- Since this update because you can get 10 transmute crystals per run per toon on a random and trying to get optimal gear burns through crystals. If you are trying to get 100 crystals in an evening gaming slot then it's about efficiency because a lot of players only have a certain amount of gaming time. Unfortunately you can't solo an rnd for crystals so everyone else gets caught up in it.

It's a game mechanics problem - just like the Alik'r dolmen run crazyness to get jewellry mats and levelling.

It's also really easy to fix: you make it something like 5 crystals for a normal dungeon, 10 for vet, 20 for vet HM and most of the speed runners will vanish into vet random. It's an economics problem - crystals/hour. Make the winning answer for end game players veteran mode and they'll go veteran.

There's a similar problem with people continually speedrunning some of the easy dungeons to get all the stickerbook bits for Ebon and some of the other non crap sets, but that's a) going to calm down as people complete them and b) can be soloed or two handed fine.

And for some players where money is more of a problem than time it really is hard economics. Crowns trade at 350 gold/crown or so on PC. That means the faster you can farm 700,000 gold worth of rewards the faster you can unlock a DLC you want.

etchedpixels · December 2020

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

So every time someone quits, crashes, has to go attend to their child for 15 minutes you are stuffed ?

GreenhaloX · December 2020

Ha ha ha.. oh, sorry. I've forgotten how horrifying this game can be for newly fresh players. When I started this game way, way back before One Tamriel when our levels were from V1-V16 and Craglorn was a group zone (of course not knowing all that I have learned since and know now) I was still going around thrashing and killing anything and everything in PvE. Yes, normal dungeons can be a bit intimidating for new low level players without CP. Back then, if there wasn't at least one or two level V10 or above with the group, I was cringing a bit; until I hit V10 and then V16, of course. Yet, even at V16 and hitting PvP in Cyrodiil for the first time, I remember it was horrifying and intimidating. Hell, it is still the same now with CP 810. Ha ha

Anotherone773 · December 2020

LashanW wrote: »

I do a lot of random normals when I have the time and I tend to go fast (not running past mobs tho, I kill them, I hate getting stuck in combat). I don't care about the xp I want the crystals. It's because I have 15 characters and I like to partake in end game stuff with all of them, so I want to clone the best gear for all of them. Even though endgame content doesn't change, it's still very refreshing to play that content with different classes and different builds. And that requires a ton of transmute crystals. I dislike pvp so getting crystals from there is not my preference. For better or for worse, that points people like me to random normal dungeons. Like you said, ZoS should've thought about these implications more.

That is why i think that dungeons should be split into two different groups. One for casual players like me, who enjoy doing the content and want to have a nice stroll through the dungeon. who doesnt mind people doing the quest, people learning to tank or heal, people who don't know mechanics, and people who barely know the dungeon.

And then an advanced queue for people like you. People who dont care that much about the dungeon but care about the rewards in it. Also people who are more skilled and want to do it a quicker pace for other reasons.

We will always clash on dungeon running because we want different things from it. What you want from it is just as valid as what i want from it. But why put us together in groups? That is what creates a lot of the toxic environment in dungeons. Forcing two groups who want different things and have a negative impact on the other group to play the same content together. Then less people overall run the content which means slower queues as well.

They need to do a better job at separating us.

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2020

I don't know why people are so scared of looking for like-minded players. You could form a guild for newer players who want to take things slow and advertise in zone chat. You could also ask for people to slow down a bit in dungeons, but I see people who stay behind to do a quest and never bother to say anything, and then wonder why everyone else is so far ahead. I myself like to stay behind the tank because I don't like giving free rides to tanks who just spam light attacks while i'm tanking most of the dungeon but not getting most of the tank's drops, gold, and xp.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.

ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!

This has always bothered me about ESO. Its the only MMO that i have played that the other players in your group expect you to do research and practice to play. I find it extremely annoying that people expect me to learn to play a game outside of the game itself so when i actually do the content ive already experienced it enough through articles and videos to know what to expect and how to deal with it as if i already played through it 100 times before. What is even more ridiculous is they expect you to practice for hours on end on a training dummy as well.

It is absolutely ridiculous people take a game and turn it into some sort of competitive job. I see so much OCD in this game. Far more than i have seen in any other game i played. ESO literally attracts people with OCD and i don't know why but it ruins it for other players.

I remember some people wanting the daily rewards removed or wanting events shortened because "it exhausted them" to log in or do the event for long periods. What??? Go to the bloody doctor and get your issues under control and stop expecting everyone else to accommodate your OCD. Same with people and crown crates. Don't like crown crates? Don't buy them. Can't resist the urge? Then you should go to the doctor and get help and stop trying to make everyone accommodate your issues.

ImmortalCX · December 2020

This is a side effect of the CP system and not providing enough end-game content or incentive for them to complete them. (Or too much incentive to run lower dungeons.)

If they provided a real end game progression, high level players would never run normal dungeons. So what they did instead, is put a free 10 xmute crystal reward on the fast dungeons, and you get people speed running them because they need the crystals.

The dungeons are not RPG experiences, they are farming for crystals.

If they removed the crystal reward, no one would run them. new players would wait 2+ hours in the queue.

The problem is the CP system. Every new alt gets fast tracked to CP810. If this wasnt the case, you would have a wider range of character levels/abilities and the dungeons would provide at least a marginal challenge.

This game has serious problems with end game, rewards, and character progression. This is akin to incentivizing 40 year old men to date from the Junior High School.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

Tsar_Gekkou wrote: »

I don't know why people are so scared of looking for like-minded players. You could form a guild for newer players who want to take things slow and advertise in zone chat. You could also ask for people to slow down a bit in dungeons, but I see people who stay behind to do a quest and never bother to say anything, and then wonder why everyone else is so far ahead. I myself like to stay behind the tank because I don't like giving free rides to tanks who just spam light attacks while i'm tanking most of the dungeon but not getting most of the tank's drops, gold, and xp.

I typically make new guild and run them for the exact reasons you listed. ESO is the first MMO in 20 years in which i have not been the leader of a guild like entity at some point. I am older now and i don't have the time to run a guild. It takes a lot of time to manage the guild because if you don't stay on top of it and are not constantly recruiting and managing your players then the active players you do have leave because its not active enough.

So what happens you end up spending all you time managing a large group of players or your guild fails. This means you spend less and less time actually playing and more time managing. Ironically this exactly what it is like to be a real manager in which many people think that managers " dont do anything" but they have a very exhausting job.

I don't have the time to manage a guild. It would consume all of my free time to even keep it from sinking and i wouldn't get to enjoy the fruits of my labor that much. So i never created one here .

The only good solution to this is to divide people based on if they want a slow casual experience or a fast more advanced play type of experience. Then people can play their people like them and everyone is happy.

hafgood · December 2020

I do dungeons with guild mates, if someone wants to donthe quest they say, we wait while they do it making sure they talk to all they need to talk to.

Some members have just started doing story runs to take their time and get to understand the dungeon story.

You either need a non rewarding story mode or a new guild where you have players of a similar mindset. Expecting players from the group finder to play how you want is as selfish as those who expect you to play how they want. And no matter how many separate queues you may have to dungeons players will always gravitate to the quickest. Because That is The Way.

KaGaOri · December 2020

etchedpixels wrote: »

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

So every time someone quits, crashes, has to go attend to their child for 15 minutes you are stuffed ?

This needs to be "everyone in the group" not "four players" if ever implemented.

That way I'll be all for it - don't let doors be open and bosses spawn unless whole group is present (regardles of number of players in it). In regards of boss spawning it would be necesarry to have all pledges require killing all bosses now (to prevent ppl sneaking through boss rooms in dlc one at a time to get to the final boss fight) with exception for replacement player added via dungeon finder, who would get already dead bosses counted towards pledge completion if they complete rest of the run (to prevent kicking someone before final boss to replace them with friend / guildie + add incentive for people to finish run if put in middle of pledge dungeon). Yeah, think this may work

.

idk · December 2020

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.

Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.

A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

Wolfpaw · December 2020

@ZOS_GinaBruno

@ZOS_RichLambert

It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.

Leads in scarce areas, LFG system & their rewards, Leads on final dungeon bosses, CP system, trade market, crowns-to-gold "gifting", etc.

Empathetic design will go a long way for ZOS, new players, & overall community morale.

for example GW2 LFG system,

1. Pick your dungeon norm/vet
2. Post/type a description or scroll through posts to join.

examples:

Lfm 3dps speed run
Lfm story run
Lfm 810cp plus only
Lf2dps & 1tank no cp run
Lfm achievement run

You get the idea~

3. Join group of your choice
4. When 4th person joins group finder places group in dungeon.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

idk wrote: »

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.

Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.

A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.

Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?

The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.

phileunderx2 · December 2020

ZOS get rid of randoms giving the most crystals.
We should get 10 on the competition of our first dungeon of the day no matter the mode.

Faiza · December 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.

Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.

But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.

If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF

You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.

Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.

@Faiza

There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.

There is because that's exactly what's happening.

Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.

During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.

It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.

I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.

Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.

It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.

spartaxoxo · December 2020

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.

Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.

But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.

If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF

You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.

Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.

@Faiza

There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.

There is because that's exactly what's happening.

Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.

During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.

It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.

I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.

Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.

It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.

@Faiza

When people are painting everyone with a preferred playstyle with a toxic brush, yes you do need to remind people that it's the minority that are really toxic about it.

If people claimed everyone that went slow were afk'ing a lot, constantly going through their inventories, and picking up every sack and barrel, people who prefer to go slow would rightfully point out that is the minority of people going slower. And yet, it's perfectly okay to act like everyone or most everyone who goes fast intentionally kill bosses before anyone else can get there. When that is a minority of fast runs. A lot of abusive language is being hurled at everyone who goes fast, over a toxic minority because of this over generalization.

So yes, it does need to be stated that the majority of fast runs everyone gets the bosses they need. And majority of people who don't wait for their team to kill the bosses end up kicked well before the final boss. Most people are not gonna kill the boss until everyone gets there. The majority of people, no matter which style they prefer, are gonna have basic group manners. Maybe there's a bit higher percentage in the speedy group that will not, but it is nowhere near the majority of people who go fast.

Faiza · December 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.

Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.

But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.

If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF

You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.

Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.

@Faiza

There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.

There is because that's exactly what's happening.

Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.

During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.

It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.

I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.

Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.

It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.

@Faiza

When people are painting everyone with a preferred playstyle with a toxic brush, yes you do need to remind me that it's the minority that are really toxic about it.

If people claimed everyone that went slow were afk'ing a lot, constantly going through their inventories, and picking up every sack and barrel, people who prefer to go slow would rightfully point out that is the minority of people going slower. And yet, it's perfectly okay to act like everyone or most everyone who goes fast intentionally kill bosses before anyone else can get there. When that is a minority of fast runs. And a lot of abusive language is being hurled at everyone who goes fast, over a toxic minoriry.

So yes, it does need to be stated that the majority of fast runs everyone gets the bosses they need. And majority of people who don't wait for their team to kill the bosses end up kicked well before the final boss.

Ever heard that saying, If it doesn't apply, let it fly?

Or...a hit dog hollers?

spartaxoxo · December 2020

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Faiza wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

The whole point of offering rewards for random dungeons is to incentivize people to use the Group Finder so they can help each other form groups. Keeping people out of the GF would be counterproductive.

Perhaps a good solution would be to reduce the reward for Random Normals to 5 crystals and keep the reward for Vet Randoms at 10. That way, people who are only running Randoms for themelves and are so irredeemably selfish as to behave this way will be filtered into the dungeons where it's a little harder for them to ruin it for everyone else.

But don't keep those of us who actually want to run a normal or two out. Just because I may be able to solo or nearly solo some of the non-DLC normals on my main doesn't mean I can do it on a baby alt that I have fewer skillpoints, gear, and personal experience invested in, even if that alt is a CP810 on paper.

If the only way you can run normals is to prevent other people in your group from completing the content, then you should absolutely be removed from GF

You're not prevented from completing the dungeon by slowing down and waiting for npcs to finish talking so a lowbie can turn in their quest. However someone speeding through the dungeon so that other players can't complete the requirements for their skill point, or locking them out of dungeons or loot is absolutely harmful.

Take the crystals out of the GF random reward and the speedrunners with it. That's literally all that needs to be done.

@Faiza

There is no need to act like all or even most speed runners are so inconsiderate that they would kill a boss without the group able to receive credit.

There is because that's exactly what's happening.

Everyone comes on the forums and claims to be the most upstanding player ever, but you know very well that this wouldn't be an issue if this wasn't happening.

During the undaunted event players couldn't even get their daily gold box because someone with Wild Hunt would queue up and run to the end of the dungeon before the rest of the group could catch up - there's threads about that here too.

It IS happening, but it's not that common. People remember bad experiences more than good ones, so the times someone screwed you out of loot and ruined everything will have increased significance over the many times it didn't happen. That's especially true if someone doesn't like speed runs to begin with.

I haven't been screwed out of the final boss once, and the one time someone killed the first needed boss without the group, that person was kicked.

Yes, you've already told us that you are a speed runner and prefer it that way, you don't need to downplay everyone elses experiences to justify it.

It is common enough to be a problem that needs to be addressed.

@Faiza

When people are painting everyone with a preferred playstyle with a toxic brush, yes you do need to remind me that it's the minority that are really toxic about it.

If people claimed everyone that went slow were afk'ing a lot, constantly going through their inventories, and picking up every sack and barrel, people who prefer to go slow would rightfully point out that is the minority of people going slower. And yet, it's perfectly okay to act like everyone or most everyone who goes fast intentionally kill bosses before anyone else can get there. When that is a minority of fast runs. And a lot of abusive language is being hurled at everyone who goes fast, over a toxic minoriry.

So yes, it does need to be stated that the majority of fast runs everyone gets the bosses they need. And majority of people who don't wait for their team to kill the bosses end up kicked well before the final boss.

Ever heard that saying, If it doesn't apply, let it fly?

Or...a hit dog hollers?

I have never failed to slow down for questers, and if others do, I even offer to run the person through a second time purely so they can hear the dialogue. Not only has nobody taken me up on the offer, I often get completely ignored on the offer despite slowing down and sticking with the quester.

I never kill the boss if my group is lagging behind and have never once been kicked for speeding.

I guess your okay with the negativity I'm describing though, because I use a playstyle you don't like. On this board, I or others who play like I do have been described as "irredeemable" "***" "jerks" etc etc. And generalizations like those are the reason why.

idk · December 2020

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.

Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.

idk · December 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.

Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.

A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.

Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?

The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.

@Anotherone773

Nope. They were very clear in what they stated. They clearly stated all four members of the group would need to be at the door and they mentioned nothing about exceptions nor pre-made groups. Further, the GF does not distinguish any difference between a pre-made group or random players when the GF is used.

I did not misunderstand the post nor did I edit anything out.

Also, it takes a while for a DCed player to be recognized as not in the group anymore. Additionally, if a player leaves a group before they leave the instance the instance still considers that the player is still in the instance for several minutes. This happens in both trials and dungeons and prevents players from filling the vacancy from entering which should also prevent the group from going forward as well.

Additionally, if Zos tried to implement such an idea and complicated the design by having it change by having it adjust to the number of players in the group at that time would merely complicate it and increase the likelihood it would bug out. Anyone who has played ESO lately knows the chances of new systems bugging out is very high.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

Wolfpaw · December 2020

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.

Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.

& yet here we're.

A lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.

Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.

UGotBenched91 · December 2020

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.

So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.

thats wonderful

They clearly do get to finish the dungeon... and then get on with their life.

This comes down to complaining “ransoms” aren’t playing the way you want to play. Group up with like minded players if you want this.

There’s nothing to STOP.

However-

I’m always for more options as people are different and have different preferences. Totally fine. Let me sign up for a speed running carnage run and let new players join a take time to smell the roses group. Lol

Perfectly fine. Neither of these types of players should be punished. Just more options. As of right now.... yeah. Leave if you don’t like it that’s your call.

Nah don't leave my friend. Vote to kick and enjoy an agreed upon speed while the speed runner sits in a 10-15 minute que.

Icy_Waffles · December 2020

“Urgent”

More like “ZOS!! Other players are playing differently than I want to play and instead of joining up with others who want to play the way I do, you need to punish those players different than me and make changes!!”

idk · December 2020

Wolfpaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.

Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.

& yet here we're.

Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.

Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.

I was not suggesting it was a lot of effort and was merely noting it solves the issue being complained about.

I do not know what GW2 has, but if the person is not willing to use guild chat or zone then it is doubtful they will use a LFG channel. I have no idea why people avoid forming their own group when they seem so unhappy with the groups they get via the GF.

Anotherone773 · December 2020

idk wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.

Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.

A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.

Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?

The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.

@Anotherone773

Nope. They were very clear in what they stated. They clearly stated all four members of the group would need to be at the door and they mentioned nothing about exceptions nor pre-made groups. Further, the GF does not distinguish any difference between a pre-made group or random players when the GF is used.

I did not misunderstand the post nor did I edit anything out.

Also, it takes a while for a DCed player to be recognized as not in the group anymore. Additionally, if a player leaves a group before they leave the instance the instance still considers that the player is still in the instance for several minutes. This happens in both trials and dungeons and prevents players from filling the vacancy from entering which should also prevent the group from going forward as well.

Additionally, if Zos tried to implement such an idea and complicated the design by having it change by having it adjust to the number of players in the group at that time would merely complicate it and increase the likelihood it would bug out. Anyone who has played ESO lately knows the chances of new systems bugging out is very high.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

@idk

Apologies. I somehow mixed up what princess said and what another commenter said. You are correct in the way it was said. I think it would be fine as long a majority of the group was present. It would be a rare occasion someone disconnected from the group at least in my experience. I might see it one every fifty dungeons. It would help make sure that turtles and hares dont hinder the group which is a huge benefit to me that outweighs any negatives.

Grandchamp1989 · December 2020

People who abandon, ditch and leave their group shouldn't be allowed to play group content.

It's a huge sign of desrespect, impatience and someone with too big of an ego.

If the Tank/GROUP want to rush you rush.
If the Tank/group go normal pace you do that.
If the group has quest you respect it.

I can't stand people who try to solo GROUP dungeon's and act like 3 other people are just baggage/burden to get rid off.

Stay with your team in group content.

idk · December 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Princess_Kassiopeia wrote: »

It would be good if DOORS were made 4 Lock sensitive. That is, unless all four players unlocked the door to the next system nobody would get through and everyone would stay safe together.

If you think about this and that everyone has paid to play this and all deserve progress in whatever format that comes in from fight victories...... it makes perfect sense..... and makes me wonder why it isnt implemented initially.

Having doors throughout the dungeon that required all so players to be at the door would create a nightmare.

Such a design would force groups to fail of they lost a member and could not get the spot filled. Groups wise enough to kick a fake tank would be hesitant since it could create an automatic group fail.

A “solution” that creates bigger problems than it solves is not a solution.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

I am pretty sure you misunderstood what was said. It would only apply to members in group not max group size. so if you have 3 people in the dungeon all 3 people would need to be present not a full group of 4.

Regardless i disagree with the idea because it is the opposite of speed runners forcing everyone to speed up. Now we are forcing everyone to slow down to the slowest person. "No (player) left behind" where have we seen that before and it failed miserably?

The groups pace should be set by the majority of the players, not the fastest or slowest person. Maybe a better idea is that a majority of the active players in group have to be in the boss trigger area? 3 out of 4 people in a full group or 2 out of 3 people in a group with someone disconnected or an empty spot. A disconnected person would be treated as an empty spot, so you don't have to kick them just because they had a connection issue. This middle road option would be a much better solution.

@Anotherone773

Nope. They were very clear in what they stated. They clearly stated all four members of the group would need to be at the door and they mentioned nothing about exceptions nor pre-made groups. Further, the GF does not distinguish any difference between a pre-made group or random players when the GF is used.

I did not misunderstand the post nor did I edit anything out.

Also, it takes a while for a DCed player to be recognized as not in the group anymore. Additionally, if a player leaves a group before they leave the instance the instance still considers that the player is still in the instance for several minutes. This happens in both trials and dungeons and prevents players from filling the vacancy from entering which should also prevent the group from going forward as well.

Additionally, if Zos tried to implement such an idea and complicated the design by having it change by having it adjust to the number of players in the group at that time would merely complicate it and increase the likelihood it would bug out. Anyone who has played ESO lately knows the chances of new systems bugging out is very high.

Again, pre-form the group is an amazing solution when wanting specific types of groups.

@idk

Apologies. I somehow mixed up what princess said and what another commenter said. You are correct in the way it was said. I think it would be fine as long a majority of the group was present. It would be a rare occasion someone disconnected from the group at least in my experience. I might see it one every fifty dungeons. It would help make sure that turtles and hares dont hinder the group which is a huge benefit to me that outweighs any negatives.

No worries.

Wolfpaw · December 2020

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

It would be nice if ZOS in 2021 focused on game systems that cause a divide/conflict within the community.

Zos solved this issue years ago by giving us the ability to form our own group. It works marvelously well and thousands of players do this every day. What is amazing about this solution is the group tends to have smoother runs overall than a random GF group of players.

& yet here we're.

Tools like a global lfg channel or a lfg system similar to GW2 would be beneficial to the community.

Allowing players to form their group is harldy "marvelous", or much effort on ZOS part.

I was not suggesting it was a lot of effort and was merely noting it solves the issue being complained about.

I do not know what GW2 has, but if the person is not willing to use guild chat or zone then it is doubtful they will use a LFG channel. I have no idea why people avoid forming their own group when they seem so unhappy with the groups they get via the GF.

Rewards maybe? Convenience? No Global lfg chat (would be abused though).

Example of GW2 LFG system in ESO.

1. Pick your dungeon norm/vet
2. Post/type a description or scroll through posts to join.

examples:
Lfm 3dps speed run
Lfm story run
Lfm 810cp plus only
Lf2dps & 1tank no cp run
Lfm achievement run
You get the idea~

3. Join group of your choice
4. When 4th (ESO) person joins group finder places group in dungeon.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Looking_For_Group

Tsar_Gekkou · December 2020

UGotBenched91 wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

Icy_Waffles wrote: »

There’s nothing to stop. If you don’t like me running through queued as tank (with inner fire) on a dps character then feel free to leave the group. I don’t care either way.

So your answer is : They get to waste their time and not get to finish the dungeon. If they don't like it, THEY have to leave.

thats wonderful

They clearly do get to finish the dungeon... and then get on with their life.

This comes down to complaining “ransoms” aren’t playing the way you want to play. Group up with like minded players if you want this.

There’s nothing to STOP.

However-

I’m always for more options as people are different and have different preferences. Totally fine. Let me sign up for a speed running carnage run and let new players join a take time to smell the roses group. Lol

Perfectly fine. Neither of these types of players should be punished. Just more options. As of right now.... yeah. Leave if you don’t like it that’s your call.

Nah don't leave my friend. Vote to kick and enjoy an agreed upon speed while the speed runner sits in a 10-15 minute que.

The 15-minute timer goes away when you get kicked from a dungeon, so the speedrunner can just queue right back up. You only keep the timer if you get kicked while trying to load into the dungeon but you're stuck in an infinite load screen and haven't made it in yet.

SupremeRissole · December 2020

DT-ARR wrote: »

SupremeRissole wrote: »

Some players have limited time to play, so if they can get it done in 10 minutes why would they deliberately slow down and do it in 40 minutes because someone wants to read every dialogue. Even if you kick them for being too fast they can just re-queue and probably still get it done faster than the initial group.
The argument that those players should find like minded players to pre-group, can be said for the slower players as well.
My point being, there is equal validity and reasoning for both slow and fast players, neither group likes the other.
Either way, you can't complain about random pug groups, you may get a really skilled and understanding tank, you may get a nightblade spamming bow light attacks and kiting the boss out of AOE's... it's random and if you dont like it you need to either leave group, kick the guy you don't like, or get on with it.

You think the casual / new player doesn't have limited playing time either...?

Real talk. Are you honestly in favor of screwing other players via wasting their time in a 20+minute long queue, when the current game structure / mechanics doesn't allow them to take part / gain the benefits of the quests or loot simply bc 1 inconsiderate d-bag with no thought for others sprinted ahead without even the slightest bit of courtesy?

The PUG excuse be damned. This is just dumb outdated game mechanics that doesn't take into account the new reality of a diminished player base and power creep. An update is required.

Cmon now.

How is carrying a group of lowbies in fungal 1 and getting them the complete in 5 minutes screwing over their waited queue time.
Vice versa, are you in favour of screwing over someone who has waited 20+ minutes to get a group only to drag the dungeon out for a further 20 minutes?
Once again seeing as you seem to have missed my point, there's equal arguments both for and against speedrunning.
Zos have tried fixing it before (we used to be able to queue for all three roles) and based on these threads, the problem still isnt fixed.