The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Urgent: Help new players pls zos, vets are speed running all normal dungeons 😣😣😣
-
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.
porblem isThis is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.
i think u would describe me as one of these speedrunners too.,..
if i wanna farm something i dont care for story etc but if someone say somethink like wait 10sec i cant sprint that fast i can totaly wait 10sec but often this wont happen normaly these ones who complain about are either 1. not even trying to come to the boss fast 2. wait a year for npcs 3. fight alone 1add/skipped boss (this happens very often in bc 1 or fg 1 (and if they wouldnt know the way i would explain it if they ask)) or 4. are reading the quest
if i would wait for all of these 4 points above i would so far only be able to do half the runs i did now
maybe some say something like i mensioned above but i ve never met one of these
That is the best part. The people that need a little bit more time to get to the boss in a dungeon always ignore you when you ask them about it (for example when you see their low level).0 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Ellimist_Entreri wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.
porblem isThis is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.
i think u would describe me as one of these speedrunners too.,..
if i wanna farm something i dont care for story etc but if someone say somethink like wait 10sec i cant sprint that fast i can totaly wait 10sec but often this wont happen normaly these ones who complain about are either 1. not even trying to come to the boss fast 2. wait a year for npcs 3. fight alone 1add/skipped boss (this happens very often in bc 1 or fg 1 (and if they wouldnt know the way i would explain it if they ask)) or 4. are reading the quest
if i would wait for all of these 4 points above i would so far only be able to do half the runs i did now
maybe some say something like i mensioned above but i ve never met one of these
That is the best part. The people that need a little bit more time to get to the boss in a dungeon always ignore you when you ask them about it (for example when you see their low level).
ive used the LFG system an lot having 6 , 780cp toons and 4 non cp toons on PC/NA and from what ive seen is if your on an high cp toon others seem to care if you want to do slower run for skill point/s , but if your lower cp or non cp they can careless what you say and just say get good you got time to re run it crybaby and kick you ,
same seems to be about being the speed runner ( sorry to all i might have done wrong in testing how players act ) , but on cp toons i can hit adds running nonone says anything , yet on an non cp toon tho killing just as fast (due to low lvl buffing + cp , and right crafted gear ) everyone (810cp players mostly) starts asking for hold up or something ageist speed running , yet if i dont hit adds running high lvl cp players do . Even had one where i got placed with one from last run i done (Them cp toon / Me non cp where they was for an speed run ) that once i was on the same ground as him both cp toons wasnt for speed run and cried to me for an hr after run on how much an d i was because i made him look bad killing faster them him no one can do that you must let ME be #1 always lol some players just cant help but want EVERYTHING to be about them and if they cant get it from an guild they get it by force in LFG its funny that one gets an ego boost out of an game to where being an good player means more then being an good person1 -
Minyassa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sounds like ZOS could solve this problem by allowing us to queue solo for random normals.4 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like ZOS could solve this problem by allowing us to queue solo for random normals.
speed runs could speed run and players that want to go slow and need help can group que but speed runners that need help would get exposed and we cant have that now can we lol all them streamers that made it look so easy yet alone cant do the same lol but no for real solo que would be nice if they'd re work so everyone could be soloed because theres an lot that cant due needing another for swich / leaver / ect ect0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »this should change next year with ne cp' trees
Because CP static for 2 years and still ever increasing power creep clearly disproves CP is the main culprit?
Or because CP doesn't effect how many transmutes you get from a daily random?
Or because you believe ZOS will rework CP such that it hurts the entire player base's ability to clear content they were previously able to clear with ease?
Such a disconnected statement requires elaboration, if you don't mind expanding on it.1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think many people are right when they point out reducing the incentive because that will win 9/10 times.
if the incentive for normal completion was lowered by half or more than I think we could see a drop in speed runners rushing through normal dungeons.
putting in separate queues, making more filters, etc. all arbitrary and more likely to punish others than the speed runners as they will likely do whatever is most convenient for themselves with no regard for others - if you want to reduce their participation then reduce their incentive,1 -
Vanya✭✭✭✭✭True wise words, I am tired of players mindlessly rushing, ESO is so much more rich,complex and there is dialogue and exploration within dungeous too, I am new to almost half of dungeon content including every trial I only briefly visited few solo , I have no choice but to risk if someone kicks me when I stand listen to conversation4
-
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭I think many people are right when they point out reducing the incentive because that will win 9/10 times.
if the incentive for normal completion was lowered by half or more than I think we could see a drop in speed runners rushing through normal dungeons.
putting in separate queues, making more filters, etc. all arbitrary and more likely to punish others than the speed runners as they will likely do whatever is most convenient for themselves with no regard for others - if you want to reduce their participation then reduce their incentive,
The transmute crystals 100% need to be removed from the GF reward and placed as a drop on the last boss instead. That is the solution.Edited by Faiza on January 5, 2021 3:24PM0 -
JessPushToPlay✭✭✭I totally agree- on top of what you have said I think they should introduce "Adventure Mode" that unlocks after you've completed a dungeon, that allows you to do the dungeon over again in a optional "solo" mode with bosses/mobs that are manageable with only 1 person in the dungeon.
That way- if you miss out on the dungeon lore, you have easy access to explore this. I'll leave decisions about loot/rewards up to ZOS- at that point I'm more interested in the missed lore.PC & PS4 | NA5 -
svendf✭✭✭✭I think many people are right when they point out reducing the incentive because that will win 9/10 times.
if the incentive for normal completion was lowered by half or more than I think we could see a drop in speed runners rushing through normal dungeons.
putting in separate queues, making more filters, etc. all arbitrary and more likely to punish others than the speed runners as they will likely do whatever is most convenient for themselves with no regard for others - if you want to reduce their participation then reduce their incentive,
The transmute crystals 100% need to be removed from the GF reward and placed as a drop on the last boss instead. That is the solution.
Let´s go, who will ram the last boss first lol. Do you know`what ? Let´s do it this way if you want a drop in dungeon. A simple random drop from anything. It can be a chest, a mini boss or any add, just simple random drop.
This will be much safer and the speedsters will feel panic and perhaps run around in a circle, who knows
Edited by svendf on January 5, 2021 4:19PM2 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.3 -
LeoRJBrazil✭✭✭Sounds like ZOS could solve this problem by allowing us to queue solo for random normals.
If they do so, there will be another topic in Forum saying that new players take 5 hours to group, as there isn´t tanks. And they will ask for fake tanks and vet players to come back.
Seens to me that this topic discussion is in a way of "any medice/correction will actually kill the patience"0 -
madman65✭✭✭✭Let the new players start a rally place, I`m saying if there is a place for them to gather say for example the three major cities of the Alliance. It would make since to start there for the new players see how those cities are the starting point of the main story. Just seems like a good fix and some higher level gamer can take the time to help them out, me being one. We have Riften and Belkarth that has dungeon and trial grouping.0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.
100% disagree and strongly disagree with the bolded part. I have been in loads of normal DF groups in which we went at a slower pace for quests. We have stopped to explain boss mechanics even if no one has asked, we even spend time socializing at times. I once spent 2 hours running white gold tower because the newbies struggled with mechanics. Some of the best tanks i have ever played with in this game have stopped and waited for new players and while we were waiting for the new player, he was tossing out tips and such almost all of which i already knew but the other person seemed to only know some of it.
Reward driven players say things like " normal is not sprinting but burning through everything ASAP. " These players cannot comprehend why you would want to take longer than absolutely necessary to do content. They then get annoyed when people take their time to do content.
Fun driven players don't care about hurrying up to get the reward, or being fast or the best. The journey is what they care about. A majority of players, not only in dungeons, but the game are fun driven, not reward driven.Edited by Anotherone773 on January 5, 2021 7:47PM2 -
josiahva✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS should have addressed the fake roles situation a long time ago. This situation is only getting worse(expanding with speedrunners), and it getting worse was only a question of time. Since nothing is done to stop those types of players. My guess is, that pretty soon players like that will find yet another way to screw over regular players.
Just place heavy restrictions on roles to stop fake roles. Besides that: Do not allow bossfights to be skipped, and do not allow bossfights to start with less than 3 players in the boss arena. Speedrunner problem solved.
I have to ask, why is it, every suggestion you make cripples people who like to play in some non-typical way? As an example here, back when the lich crashes were happening I went in vFL and Caluurion was causing most of the group to crash ...eventually 2 people left the group, leaving just me and one DPS to kill Caluurion ...which we were able to do after significantly reducing our APM, we then went on to complete the dungeon with just the 2 of us....this would be impossible with the restrictions you suggest. Its better to just accept that not everyone plays the same, and trying to make people play in a certain way is against the whole "play as you like" idea. If you join a random group, accept the fact that people are going to play as they like regardless of what you think. You shouldn't have expectations from random people, thats what pre-mades are for.2 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kain.winterhearteb17_ESO wrote: »@Recent, do not hesitate to initiate vote for kicking speedrunner out of the group, and if one fails - start another one immediately to maximize your chances. That's the only way I see to make them think before trying to ruin experience for others.
Okay, they way you say this erks me a bit. Ruin the experience for others? What makes your or any other new players experience so valuable compared to someone who has spent hundreds maybe thousands more hours in game than you? Possibly even hundreds of dollars more than you? Perhaps they have 10 characters all needing gear and day in day out they grind to get what they need only to still need transmute crystals. They run all 10 characters through dailies as quick as possible so they can finally have a good experience in the content they and their guildmates want to play.
And "Make them think"? The whole post sounds incredibly narcissistic. I'm not trying to be mean, but it really sounds like you put your own needs before others, just as bad as a speed runner puts their needs ahead of others. Just a different side of the same coin.
For everyone else having issues: Here is what you should do. "Hey all, trying to do this first time for quest. Mind going slow?" Most people will help because someone asked nicely like any decent person should. I know I always help when asked.
If they still speed run, fine. They finish in 10 minutes or less and you get a bunch of free loot for doing almost nothing. Run the dungeon again. Heaven knows they have to run it 10 times, you can run it twice and not complain.
Also, find better guilds. Every guild I'm in will always help whether it's going for speed runs, hard modes, no deaths, or all 3 combined. They help level new characters and do quests. They weren't hard to find either. Thats not to brag, it's to tell you plenty of good guilds exist.
Sometimes you have to wait a bit. Sometimes people are busy. Be patient and set a time. "Hey, can I get some people in 30 minutes to run this dungeon?" Communication amd planning go a long way. Gives them time to finish what they were doing so they can focus on helping you after. You can't expect people to stop what they are doing at the drop of a dime, then be mad that no one wants to help you.
You can have up to 5 guilds. I find it VERY hard to believe there isn't at least 3 people out of a few hundred that won't help. Maybe ya'lls approach is wrong and you should ask yourself what "you" may be doing wrong. Maybe youre being impatient. Maybe your expectations are too high, thinking random queue will give you the outcome you envisioned. It is random after all. Do a sanity check and ask yourself if you're over reacting.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!8 -
BackStabeth✭✭✭✭✭Generally speaking, if you are doing a dungeon for the first time, or you are not able to keep up with the speed runners then right at the start mention this and people usually, almost always are okay with it.
Also, you might serve yourself better by joining a guild that caters to new players and do dungeons with those players.
What you are essentially asking is for ZOS to intervene in how people want to play the game. ZOS is never going to do that. Most people are polite, even vets. Just because someone is a vet doesn't mean they are always playing as if they are special or elite. Most, will help you if you just simply ask right at the beginning. They will help you with game mechanics, with going at a speed you can handle, with not taking the short cuts, etc.
Some of course won't, but that's just people being people. Ignore them and find a group that better suits your needs and intent. When I first started I was having this issue specially with dungeons that I had not done yet. I ended up joining a guild that helps new players, and everything after that was great. I used to do all my undaunted pledges with them every day and it was never hard to ask in guild chat for people to run them with me. I feel this is probably your best option.1 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.1 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Edited by Nordic__Knights on January 6, 2021 2:37AM1 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.0 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After review, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming and Baiting are both violations of the Community Guidelines. Both of which are stated as follows:- Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
- Trolling or Baiting: The act of trolling is defined as something that is created for the intent to provoke conflict, shock others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction. It’s okay and very normal to disagree with others, and even to debate, but provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable in the official The Elder Scrolls Online community. If you do not have something constructive or meaningful to add to a discussion, we strongly recommend you refrain from posting in that thread, and find another discussion to participate in instead. It is also not constructive or helpful to publicly call out others and accuse them of trolling, or call them a troll—please refrain from doing so. If you genuinely believe someone is trolling, please report the post or thread to the ESO Team, and leave it at that.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.Edited by Faiza on January 6, 2021 4:02AM9 -
KhajiitLivesMatter✭✭✭✭Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
yea if speedrunner are to fast for the group they maybe waste time of others
but if speedrunner slow down they lose there own time
and for me i follow a simple rule
my time > stranger's time3 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
yea if speedrunner are to fast for the group they maybe waste time of others
but if speedrunner slow down they lose there own time
and for me i follow a simple rule
my time > stranger's time
Perfect example why there should be a two part solution.
1. Solo Story Mode, get the skill point, do the story at your own pace. Repeatable Story but no reward after first run.
2. Reduce crystal incentive on normal and increase incentive for veteran. Increase incentives for DLC dungeons.
Combine these into one major quality of life update and you have more people getting into dungeons and reduce inconvenient speed runners for normal instances3 -
Faiza✭✭✭✭✭KhajiitLivesMatter wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »Nordic__Knights wrote: »Hapexamendios wrote: »I'll go as fast as I can and kill everything on the way. If someone can't keep up with no enemies around, that is their problem. If you're doing the story, catching up is easy and up to you. Reverse is also true, if I'm doing the quest it incumbent on me to catch up.
do you know there is npcs that take 2-3 mins to talk before player can even talk to the npc (DSC1&2) so theres no catch up time if others go ahead even without adds being around
Been on both sides of that. It's irrelevant and doesn't change anything.
Once again it is NOT irrelevant.
A very short, non complete list of dungeons where you are REQUIRED to clear mobs, packs, or wait for npcs in order to get the skill points for completion:
Banished Cells - YOU MUST Talk to Keeper Cirion after each encounter and engage with him in order to meet him at the final boss for the skill point. Don't do this, or your group runs ahead without you (and him)? No skill point.
Tempest Island - YOU MUST clear EVERY group of lamias on the first beach in order to progress the skill point quest. AND THEN you MUST talk to the quest giver in order to advance the quest. Don't do this or your group runs ahead and skips them? No skill point
Elden Hollow - YOU MUST clear the area in front of each of the alters in order to receive the skill point after the final boss. If your group runs past the trash mobs in front of the 2nd alter, you cannot progress the quest and you will NOT receive a skill point. Additionally, after clearing the trash there is a 30 second timer, a literal timer on the screen that counts down until the npc moves on.
Arx Corinium - No Nereids? No skill point, you fought a crocodile for nothing.
Direfrost Keep - No speaking stones activated? No skill points.
It goes on and on and on.
So what does that mean?
It means the speed runner who decided that the rest of the group could go to Oblivion is wasting everyones time. Because you have to not only return to the dungeon, but also the quest starts over from the beginning. You can't go back to where you left off, you have to redo it in its entirety. Because you didn't want to wait 60 seconds.
Just like another poster said...if the tables were turned and pledge bosses were being skipped, you lot would absolutely lose your minds.
yea if speedrunner are to fast for the group they maybe waste time of others
but if speedrunner slow down they lose there own time
and for me i follow a simple rule
my time > stranger's time
At least you know you're the problem.5 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Player behavior is 100% based on incentive. Dungeons have quests, random queue rewards/pledges, set gear/monthly style page farms. All are viable reasons to play. Speedrunning on Normal difficulty is always about farming set gear or the random dungeon queue rewards.
Want beginner players to have a better experience? Give us a “Story” difficulty. Mobs have the same health+damage as Overland public dungeons. Under Level 50 queue, no roles, no monthly style pages, no Set Collections progress (aka no incentive to speedrun).
Want experienced players farming for specific stuff to stop speedrunning? Give us a “Master” difficulty. Player Healing+Shields reduced by 30%, enemy Health+Damage increased 100%, experience gain increased by 200%. Pledges give 3 Keys for regular, 4 Keys+more exp for hard mode. Bosses gain double the Health of any mob skipped before reaching them. Item drops are doubled and items not in your Set Collections are prioritized to drop. Requires CP160 or CP300 to queue. Maybe even have a Weekly Dungeon leaderboard that gives gold jewelry.
Again..... legit everything is about incentives. Players join 6-month Vet trial trifecta progressions for titles. Dungeon gear and monthly style pages require farming, so people farm fast to maximize drops. It’s no secret. Until ZOS pushes players into a harder difficulty for their farming, and gives beginners their Story mode, it’s never going to change. Rip
2 -
CoronHR✭✭✭✭✭there is definitely something wrong with random normals now. players are a lot more toxic. if you're not speed running, you get screamed at. i'm cp 810 and i'm a fairly casual player. i do about 30k+ dps; i don't try really hard to go above it and for normal dungeons, that's totally fine. i also don't want to walk through; i prefer a good pace. but players are screaming that you're not going fast enough. i leave dungeons immediately if there's any toxicity and i'm fine with that, but yeah, these days, i don't do random normals with pugs. i find guild mates.
so that's what rn's are reduced to now. you cannot pug; you have to group with your guild, or otherwise you risk getting the screaming, either at you or someone else (i leave regardless of who's on the receiving end). so yeah, my solution is to never queue. don't think it's supposed to be that way, but until it improves, that's what i'm doing.PC - EU - Steam client6 -
Jierdanit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anotherone773 wrote: »It’s clear from some of the posts in this thread that some people’s definition of a speed run is anything where you can’t read all the quest dialogue. I think that is pretty extreme. You will be hard pressed to find 3 other people in the game who want to go that slow. That said, I have done it before because a guild-mate asked. They wanted to get all the lore books, etc, for a new dungeon and take their time. You will not find people willing to go below “normal” pace in the group finder. Normal is generally not sprinting to the last boss, but definitely burning through everything ASAP.
100% disagree and strongly disagree with the bolded part. I have been in loads of normal DF groups in which we went at a slower pace for quests. We have stopped to explain boss mechanics even if no one has asked, we even spend time socializing at times. I once spent 2 hours running white gold tower because the newbies struggled with mechanics. Some of the best tanks i have ever played with in this game have stopped and waited for new players and while we were waiting for the new player, he was tossing out tips and such almost all of which i already knew but the other person seemed to only know some of it.
Reward driven players say things like " normal is not sprinting but burning through everything ASAP. " These players cannot comprehend why you would want to take longer than absolutely necessary to do content. They then get annoyed when people take their time to do content.
Fun driven players don't care about hurrying up to get the reward, or being fast or the best. The journey is what they care about. A majority of players, not only in dungeons, but the game are fun driven, not reward driven.
The problem is that i really absolutely do not care about fun when doing a normal dungeon since i pretty much only do them to grind a specific gear set or get some fast XP.
So obviously im am trying to get through them as fast as possible, because i either want to waste as little time from my XP scroll as possible or have already done that same dungeon 5+ times earlier that day and dont want to waste any more time with it but just want to be done with it ASAP. (even though i will pretty much always wait when someone says he needs quest in chat).PC/EU, StamSorc Main4