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Why no love for Templar?
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West93✭✭✭✭✭Basically light attack weaving and poison procs on average do more damage than a burning light if opponent is not potato and kitting you.
Besides burning light and 6% weapon damage (10% cirt dmg is pretty weak in pvp) and with backlash doing 2k dmg ticks templars doesn't have much going on in pvp.
Maybe I should post come combat metrix statistics of my average pvp fights.1 -
Gorreck✭✭✭Jabs dont work like that in pvp.
For example I had a fight in pvp where out of 70jabs tick proc only 2 burninglight because opponent was constantly kitting and even using LOS in 1v1 and couldnt land all 4 jabs.
Pre burning light change it would definetly proced 15-25 times in that situation.
This is THE major issue of "balancing by spreadsheet", as opposed to "balancing by gameplay" or combining both.
1 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭Make burning light proc on every first aedric ability hit with 2 second cooldown.
Buff for pvp, nerf for pve, but people won't complain about templars having burning light doing 25% damage anymore in pve.2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Make burning light proc on every first aedric ability hit with 2 second cooldown.
Buff for pvp, nerf for pve, but people won't complain about templars having burning light doing 25% damage anymore in pve.
I'm totally fine with current design, but the stack timer needs to be extended to 10 seconds to be useful in PvP.2 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jabs dont work like that in pvp.
For example I had a fight in pvp where out of 70jabs tick proc only 2 burninglight because opponent was constantly kitting and even using LOS in 1v1 and couldnt land all 4 jabs.
Pre burning light change it would definetly proced 15-25 times in that situation.
This is THE major issue of "balancing by spreadsheet", as opposed to "balancing by gameplay" or combining both.
Yeah I had a similar fight with a nightblade at Vlast yesterday, I only saw Burning Light proc ONCE in a 5ish minute fight because he was able to break free and shade or LOS all of my jabs.
Templar used to be strong against nightblades but damage output isn't enough anymore so people can easily escape jabs, and of course POTL is not a threat2 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭
First fight was against stamnecro and second fight against stamdk in bruma earlier this week (PC EU grayhost), both were melee classes and did not kitted so burning light procs were decent, but that's the average state of power of the light ticks. 2k damage for delayed burst 6 second ability.
Really? I can show on stamcro with similar build stat blastbones hitting for 7-9k easily against same opponents.7 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Sanguinor2 wrote: »Meanwhile Stamplar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55OPI1_yvTs
Meanwhile this is a pvp thread.
Did he even use 1 templar skill?
Only japsMeanwhile Stamplarhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55OPI1_yvTs
I can't speak much about templar performance in PvE as this video does it better. This guy got 100k just for using japs and barbed trap only and up to 125k if he uses other abilities. Templar in PvE is cheese.Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Well most of stamplars overall power lies inside jabs, and yes the video is mostly just jabs spam with a couple of dots.
This is a result of overnerfing dots to the max. Its a simple rotation, but in reality most classes play similar in pve where you put whatever dots worth putting down/on and spam spam spam.
What the video doesnt say how bad the 1 second Burning Light duration can affect actual dps in a real encounter.
Burning light is a passive, even if it does damage, it should not do 25% of your over all damage in both PvE or PvP. There was a very good reason why implusion was removed from the game (I still miss it).
As for PvP, i cannot speak much about it as I rarepy play it. However, if templar players did not waste their time over buffing or nerfing 1 skill (japs) they would not have been im this state now. I rarely see templars "complain" about other abilities unless it is during PTS like ritual of retribution. After late PTS CLcylce was done, everybody stopped talking about it. Also, dark flare, sun shield, and other abilities? You keep on looking about *** and burning light and you discard other abilities, keep on doing that and you would get what you are looking for which is japs only.
LOL not true.
Go in any Templar thread and you'll see ppl complain about Backlash being bugged, our crappy ultimates, terrible passives, low self healing etc.
Jabs isn't even on my top 10 skill that needs changing.
As for burning light, Templars have 0 % dmg modifiers and outside of burning light we have 2 damage passives.
The rest is crap like extra 2 seconds on a dot no uses or an ulti no one uses.
Burning light has to be strong or we need more ways to improve our dmg. Period.
Yea, you only have 3-4 passives for damage and many semi useless skills like eclipse and dark flar. While don't DD with templar, I tank and heal with it, and beleive me when I say, 3.4k breath of life from PvE healer in BGs is absolute joke. Luminse shard vs mystic orb, both synrgies for sustain, first is one activation and later is unlimited. First deals minscule aoe dot and later 0.5 secs aoe heals
As you have see, maybe there are many threads for templars that talk about these issues, but how many are trending? None, and that is your major problem. You create many threads and no participation. See nightblade or sorcerer threads, if they want someone they keeps at it until it is adressed for better or worse, even after PTS cycle ends.Jabs dont work like that in pvp.
For example I had a fight in pvp where out of 70jabs tick proc only 2 burninglight because opponent was constantly kitting and even using LOS in 1v1 and couldnt land all 4 jabs.
Pre burning light change it would definetly proced 15-25 times in that situation.
One simple way to fix this problem is to make burning light stacks permanant until proc and then reset or last for few seconds instead of milisecs. Moat of the templar passives need a simple adjustments like this instead of complete rework.1 -
Arcanasx✭✭✭✭✭
First fight was against stamnecro and second fight against stamdk in bruma earlier this week (PC EU grayhost), both were melee classes and did not kitted so burning light procs were decent, but that's the average state of power of the light ticks. 2k damage for delayed burst 6 second ability.
Really? I can show on stamcro with similar build stat blastbones hitting for 7-9k easily against same opponents.
2.2k-2.7k Potls? Boom baby.3 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.2 -
Hakkanistorm✭✭✭
it shouldn't be strengthened, it should be repaired. Obviously doesn't work as it should in pvpEdited by Hakkanistorm on October 11, 2020 2:49PM1 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.2 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.Edited by Firstmep on October 11, 2020 4:30PM0 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
When I want to counter permarollers I just hop on my stamsorc that does what jabs does in a 360 degree radius and in general a far better spec to play.
Theres a reason why I renamed my stamsorc "Filthy-Bombardspammer".
With all the positional desync and the kinda speed nightblades run around with these days jabs isn't even that great aganist dodge spammers.1 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
When I want to counter permarollers I just hop on my stamsorc that does what jabs does in a 360 degree radius and in general a far better spec to play.
Theres a reason why I renamed my stamsorc "Filthy-Bombardspammer".
With all the positional desync and the kinda speed nightblades run around with these days jabs isn't even that great aganist dodge spammers.
Dizzy and executioner can be dodged and jabs don't.
0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.
Edited by Solariken on October 11, 2020 7:06PM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
When I want to counter permarollers I just hop on my stamsorc that does what jabs does in a 360 degree radius and in general a far better spec to play.
Theres a reason why I renamed my stamsorc "Filthy-Bombardspammer".
With all the positional desync and the kinda speed nightblades run around with these days jabs isn't even that great aganist dodge spammers.
Dizzy and executioner can be dodged and jabs don't.
Im sorry im confused, how does dizzy or executioner come in play here? I said stamsorc not stamnecro or warden?0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
When I want to counter permarollers I just hop on my stamsorc that does what jabs does in a 360 degree radius and in general a far better spec to play.
Theres a reason why I renamed my stamsorc "Filthy-Bombardspammer".
With all the positional desync and the kinda speed nightblades run around with these days jabs isn't even that great aganist dodge spammers.
Dizzy and executioner can be dodged and jabs don't.
Im sorry im confused, how does dizzy or executioner come in play here? I said stamsorc not stamnecro or warden?
A lot of stamsorcs using dizzy/executioner especially in CP, only templars and nightblades have a good spammable.0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭
Nightblades can cloak against blastbones, but they can't against jabs. I will still pick jabs any day over other spammable. But that's it, besides jabs nothing is good on templar (stamina).techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
When I want to counter permarollers I just hop on my stamsorc that does what jabs does in a 360 degree radius and in general a far better spec to play.
Theres a reason why I renamed my stamsorc "Filthy-Bombardspammer".
With all the positional desync and the kinda speed nightblades run around with these days jabs isn't even that great aganist dodge spammers.
Dizzy and executioner can be dodged and jabs don't.
Im sorry im confused, how does dizzy or executioner come in play here? I said stamsorc not stamnecro or warden?
A lot of stamsorcs using dizzy/executioner especially in CP, only templars and nightblades have a good spammable.
Ah fair enough i dont follow cp meta really, in no cp your better of with master dw and rending or if you go draugrkin then rapid strikes. Either way between streak, hurricane and whatever aoe skills you want stamsorc is just better equipped to deal with dodgerollers in no cp.0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Nightblades can cloak against blastbones, but they can't against jabs. I will still pick jabs any day over other spammable. But that's it, besides jabs nothing is good on templar (stamina).techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.
Not really though - either BB jumps just before you cloak and breaks your invisibility or it waits until you come out and then leaps at you instantly.
Any decent NB will never let you finish a full jabs channel on them, it's really easy to RAT or Shuffle then sprint thru the Templar, or just Shade out completely. Any stam spec is fast enough to evade jabs, don't get me started on how difficult it is to Jab a sorc...1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've been playing a Sword-Singer build with Dizzy as my spammable and having more success than any other build I've tried this patch. it doesn't miss, it's more bursty, and combos much better than Jabs. Just like every build, it would be better on any other class but at least it's playable...1 -
techyeshic✭✭✭✭✭I've been playing a Sword-Singer build with Dizzy as my spammable and having more success than any other build I've tried this patch. it doesn't miss, it's more bursty, and combos much better than Jabs. Just like every build, it would be better on any other class but at least it's playable...
I get so tired of dizzy though. I was going to do that during AOE tests but Its one of the reasons I want my stamplar to work. Think I'd just try a NB brawler before slotting dizzy on templar.0 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭
Nightblades can cloak against blastbones, but they can't against jabs. I will still pick jabs any day over other spammable. But that's it, besides jabs nothing is good on templar (stamina).techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.
Not really though - either BB jumps just before you cloak and breaks your invisibility or it waits until you come out and then leaps at you instantly.
Any decent NB will never let you finish a full jabs channel on them, it's really easy to RAT or Shuffle then sprint thru the Templar, or just Shade out completely. Any stam spec is fast enough to evade jabs, don't get me started on how difficult it is to Jab a sorc...
My stamplar is orc in 5 medium using toppling and race against time, I am almost at speed cap while sprinting, no nb can outrun me and with my gapclose.
On my stamnecro if nb is at 25% health he will perma rolldodge dizzy, executioner and cloak against blastbones. Yeah i'll get him eventually but he can avoid a lot of damage and might take several combos chasing him.
On my stamplar if he is at execute range and in open field (without shadow image to teleport behind resource tower wall), he dies to jabs, he can't escape. Only very few good nightblades who has shuffle and really experienced can put up a fight and survive.
99% average stamnb lethal arrows spammer glass cannon builds with 7 wellfitted dies in 2 seconds to my jabs.
I hate those type of players and that's why I still play stamplar. If jabs become single target and dodgeable I am not gonna come back to my main ever again.
3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Nightblades can cloak against blastbones, but they can't against jabs. I will still pick jabs any day over other spammable. But that's it, besides jabs nothing is good on templar (stamina).techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.
Not really though - either BB jumps just before you cloak and breaks your invisibility or it waits until you come out and then leaps at you instantly.
Any decent NB will never let you finish a full jabs channel on them, it's really easy to RAT or Shuffle then sprint thru the Templar, or just Shade out completely. Any stam spec is fast enough to evade jabs, don't get me started on how difficult it is to Jab a sorc...
My stamplar is orc in 5 medium using toppling and race against time, I am almost at speed cap while sprinting, no nb can outrun me and with my gapclose.
On my stamnecro if nb is at 25% health he will perma rolldodge dizzy, executioner and cloak against blastbones. Yeah i'll get him eventually but he can avoid a lot of damage and might take several combos chasing him.
On my stamplar if he is at execute range and in open field (without shadow image to teleport behind resource tower wall), he dies to jabs, he can't escape. Only very few good nightblades who has shuffle and really experienced can put up a fight and survive.
99% average stamnb lethal arrows spammer glass cannon builds with 7 wellfitted dies in 2 seconds to my jabs.
I hate those type of players and that's why I still play stamplar. If jabs become single target and dodgeable I am not gonna come back to my main ever again.
Ok but those baddy snipeblades are the same players who will die instantly to things like Leap > execute. Stamplar doesn't have any special advantage there.2 -
West93✭✭✭✭✭
Nightblades can cloak against blastbones, but they can't against jabs. I will still pick jabs any day over other spammable. But that's it, besides jabs nothing is good on templar (stamina).techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »techyeshic wrote: »Who's good at math? I am curious if 20% of damage copied is outpaced by having major fracture. Does the extra damage from resist being dropped mean as much as 20% ?
I replaced POTL with the puncture morph that gives both spell and physical reduction, which will also do both minor next patch and it feels like it kills as fast or faster on a immobile target. Of course, concerts "burst" to pressure and you could run both, but I dont think POTL is worth the global
If you are 2h/1h shield you should already be using punctute, major fracture is big damage boost.
But if you drop out potl what else you gonna replace for more damage. Just jabbing isnt enough against tanky players and potl gives you more ulti generation.
If you dw/2h yeah definetely use rending slashes or even quick cloak in it's place.
Potl is basically ulti gen, minor fracture and 2 extra light attack damage ticks while you are jabbing.
I bet we will wait 3 more patches till potl gets buffed.
The thing is, I get you need more, but I dont think POTL gives you more. Pierce armor is now going to give you both major and minor breach so that part becomes redundant. Takes a GCD that another jab could be used and do more damage in that time. Also the huge beam on their head is a big warning burst is coming to evade damage or purge. And the damage has gotten so small, I just cant see it being the difference maker.
I might as well use heroic slash for another GCD and at least get some defense with the ultimate generation
You're definitely right though. Need other damage to help kill decent players. I was showing a newer templar in a duel to just spam jabs on me and I stood there healing through it in medium armor with shuffle and BS. The "fix" to POTL and nerf to burning light majorly impacted that for the worst.
To be fair plenty of burst proc choice next patch, but ofc classes with actual burst can pick those up too.
So we will see, but POTL definetly needs to be looked at, thing is, its defo being double mitigated, beacuse ive seen some 8-k crits aganist really squishy(i mean sub 10k resist low crit resist etc) targets. But once ppl have some decent mitigation its damage goes down exponentially.
This patch specifically i experimented with both red mountain and velidreth and you have tools to templar to make good use of both, but its not ideal imho to have to go to procs for damage.
Good example here also my magblade on which i run caluurion and it adds a ton of dmg, but frankly i shouldnt have to.
Yeah. I'm still holding out on procs and sticking to CP. Doesn't feel as big of a shortfall there. I have been running my Warden more though at times and been trying to get my stamplar to even statistically on paper come close; never mind the burst combo and defense
Yeah the shortcomings of templars are definetly more felt in no cp, altough every time i go into cp pvp and see 40k hp wardens rip 6-7k sub assaults and dizzies i kinda question why the f would anyone play templar.
You play stamplar so you can jab, perma roll dodgers get countered hard.
Otherwise no other reason to play it.
Don't even bother playing it in no cp though.
Jabs doesn't counter those specs anymore, at least nowhere near as well as Sub Assault, Blastbones, Leap, and Streak.
Power of the Light and Burning Light were what actually countered those specs but as we've said many times both are complete trash now.
Not really though - either BB jumps just before you cloak and breaks your invisibility or it waits until you come out and then leaps at you instantly.
Any decent NB will never let you finish a full jabs channel on them, it's really easy to RAT or Shuffle then sprint thru the Templar, or just Shade out completely. Any stam spec is fast enough to evade jabs, don't get me started on how difficult it is to Jab a sorc...
My stamplar is orc in 5 medium using toppling and race against time, I am almost at speed cap while sprinting, no nb can outrun me and with my gapclose.
On my stamnecro if nb is at 25% health he will perma rolldodge dizzy, executioner and cloak against blastbones. Yeah i'll get him eventually but he can avoid a lot of damage and might take several combos chasing him.
On my stamplar if he is at execute range and in open field (without shadow image to teleport behind resource tower wall), he dies to jabs, he can't escape. Only very few good nightblades who has shuffle and really experienced can put up a fight and survive.
99% average stamnb lethal arrows spammer glass cannon builds with 7 wellfitted dies in 2 seconds to my jabs.
I hate those type of players and that's why I still play stamplar. If jabs become single target and dodgeable I am not gonna come back to my main ever again.
Ok but those baddy snipeblades are the same players who will die instantly to things like Leap > execute. Stamplar doesn't have any special advantage there.
Leap is ultimate, jabs are free.
Stamdens/stamcros who are 2h/1h shield traditional builds (dizzy/executioner/scorch/blastbones) will have trouble finishing them.
I don't even need to use detect pots to finish them on templar.
Try playing without camo hunter/detect pot good luck beating perma roll dodgers cloak spammers with just dizzy/executioner and blastbones/scorch.
I can beat with 1 skill biting jabs.1
