Why no love for Templar?

techyeshic

West93 wrote: »

techyeshic wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

3 minor recoveries.

You are telling us to double bar slot repentance for a useless skill that would not help you in a 1v1 scenario or playing solo.

Only healbots in group during pvdoor sieges using repentance and its only 1 bar slot which you only get that buff being on 1 bar.

I wish templars actually had a 3 minor recovery skill buff but they don't.

The only time I had repentance on my bar is when I was doing skyreach catacombs.

1v1 it is useless, but anytime you are 1vx or XvX it becomes somewhat decent. Minor recoveries getting buffed help but; the return is not even the cost of an ability to where you probably would be better off using meditate and LOS if you really needed sustain but its not hard to sustain right now PvP outside of these tests. I used it last week with the ramping costs test and it helped but that was really trying to patchwork my stamplar to even pull off playing in that.

Now with the buff and nerf to major protection meditate gets; it might be a better alternative to meditate; but we won't have ramping costs to be necessary. At least for a while.

The biggest issue I find with templar is it lacks defensive options and that is going to be even more so with the nerf to major protection on rememberance where you could at least use that as kind of a reset and keep some major protection if you cancel out. Is it too late to ask for Empowering Sweep to get major protection back again now that it is in a weakened state?

Stamplar could use some better healing support, or at least Extended Ritual cost reduction. Kind of crazy its only like 500 mag less than efficient purge but all we have, and when you tell another stam class to rely on purge; you get a hell no.

POTL and PL are pretty pathetic now for burst. Magicka; our DOT abilities are pathetic especially compared to DPS of proc sets. Oh; and our health based ability is the crap shiel making templars near bottom in that crap, homogenized meta; and has been a soar spot for templar tanks ever since blazing shield was nerfed into oblivion

If ability is useless in a 1v1 it is useless in general.

You killed some potatos and repentance them who cares, I would have gotten those resources on demand if I used meditate.

If you are fighting a really good experienced player that repentance waste of skill slot might be reason why you lost.

Imagine now slotting repentance doulbe bar for those 3 minor recoveries, what a waste of skill slot.

So where are my minor recoveries outside of being repentance pvdoor siege healbot?

The majority of the time in Cyrodiil you are fighting masses of potatoes. It can help keep you going farming them is all I am saying. I mentioned meditate being better, but the part that helps that ability is major protection right now and that is nerfed. Still; it only takes 2 seconds of it to get the value of 1 corpse repented and then some for stam and health AND gives you Magicka as well so the value is still there other than mass bodies on instant repentance. All Im saying is there is a use case and no; abilities that are usesless 1v1 are not worthless.

The bigger problem with repentence though; that makes this "buff" moot is it is usually used by stamplars. If you're stamplar, you're probably running rally or forward momentum so you already have minor endurance. Mag recovery it might give you 50 more. Hardly worth it. Health recovery? Maybe better if you're stacking some, and a lot are now; but still really tame. Radiant Aura has it but it agains, will fall to heal bots as any offensive magplar is going to want to use ele drain for free with major breach.

notyuu

Do I really need to say more than this?




as for a few of the non stamina pain points.

Unstable Core: Make it a hard unlockable unbreakable stun but it renders the target immune to damage for the duration

Restoring aura & Radiant Aura: change minor magicka steal or major magicka AND stamina steal

Ritual of Rebirth: HP% based HoT

Blazing Sheild: make it scale off of spell dam and max magicka

Hotdog_23

POL is trash compared to BB/stalks and curse. No one will use it anymore. No unique buff lower damage that you have to build yourself. Sure it can crit and in theory you can get good damage but just slot a fighters guild ability and get better damage guarantee.

Solariken

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

POL is trash compared to BB/stalks and curse. No one will use it anymore. No unique buff lower damage that you have to build yourself. Sure it can crit and in theory you can get good damage but just slot a fighters guild ability and get better damage guarantee.

Soul Trap is usually more damage than POTL with how fast everyone is these days. This skill is really pathetic design. It doesn't even scale properly with weapon/spell dmg, gets double mitigated, and takes a full six seconds of uninterrupted other damage. Come on ZOS.

Synssaturdayy9

templar is by far lacking in all departments of damage and healing and it's meant to be a damage and healing class
but stamplars can't even recover their health bar before getting cheesed down i liked elseweyr and scale breaker because back then i could actually complement the game and the classes i had fun playing back then because the game was playable pvp wise but know we have over performing dots under performing healing and terrible burst on a templar and everyones running around with proc builds lag which the way that it's gonna get resolved is by nerfing templar as a class entirely and everything that counts as a aoe i disapprove in my opinion to be honest i would rather just log in to collect the daily rewards then i would log off

BalticBlues

Joy_Division wrote: »

The ball was dropped long ago and now its reached meme levels of bad.

To be honest, for a few precious months it was fun playing a competitive Templar.
But in their wisdom ZOS decided to nerf Templars back to be played as healing bots.

Firstmep

BalticBlues wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

The ball was dropped long ago and now its reached meme levels of bad.

To be honest, for a few precious months it was fun playing a competitive Templar.
But in their wisdom ZOS decided to nerf Templars back to be played as healing bots.

Exept sorcs, nightblades and Wardens make better pvp healers than Templars now xD.

Cinbri

Solariken wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

POL is trash compared to BB/stalks and curse. No one will use it anymore. No unique buff lower damage that you have to build yourself. Sure it can crit and in theory you can get good damage but just slot a fighters guild ability and get better damage guarantee.

Soul Trap is usually more damage than POTL with how fast everyone is these days. This skill is really pathetic design. It doesn't even scale properly with weapon/spell dmg, gets double mitigated, and takes a full six seconds of uninterrupted other damage. Come on ZOS.

Backlash was just another step in ruining damage output of class.:
First devs nerfed Backlash that was our version of burst skill, blatantly nerfed instead of adjusting (read below) when they removed capability to store damage from all sources. Even then I did suggested to templars to not be so happy that it cancerous group utility was removed coz inexchange it want adjusted to be strong burst skill for class per se, as other classes have, and in result of this potentially good fix - we will suffer even more. And sadly it turned that way.
So with Backlash nerf obviously every templar would try to replace it with dots, on magplar it was Dawn Wrath skills. Aaaaand then zos nerfed "dot meta" and ruined damage of all dots, even those that were completely fine for years before dot meta.
So with dots becoming no longer a viable playstyle what would we do - ofc slot burst back again but rip - our burst skill was blatantly killed. So we sit in rudiculous situation where everything we can is just spamming Jabs and stack procsets.
And, like if wasnt enough, Burning Light recieved massive nerf in pvp in the name of perfomance improvement, so even Jabs spam became longer actually dangerous.

Regarding Backlash itself:
Backlash indeed terrible, and simply coz zos didnt adjusted skill but just blatantly nerfed, like:
Reason of Low % of stored damage was because it stored damage from all people.
Reason why it had cap on max stored damage was because same again - store damage from everyone.
It is logically to assume that when capability to store damage from all sources will be removed all affilated mechanics of skill should be adjusted, right? But nope devs treated it in some weird way:
Affilated mechanics were not adjusted.
1. As result we remained with low % of storing damage even when group utility was removed, even despite % was balanced around group utility. No logic.
2. Max stored damage cap remained even tho reason of why cap was there in the first place was removed. No logic again.
And then instead of addressing those problems by adjusting affilated mechanics devs decided to fix it in illogical way:
To make skill actually working for pve, where it looks weird that skill that skill that you have actively invest damage into deal same or even lower damage every 6sec than for example Frags that can proc ~3sec, devs just allowed released damage to crit. By this change they:
A. Didnt made it damage-wise better but only even further rng-based heavily dependant on crit chance.
B. Break their own claims that skills should not double dip, since now all stored damage can crit and then released crit - fouble crit.
In addition years later still nothing done regarding released damage (that on paper should not be affected by everything) being affected by damage reduction effects like Protection buff or unique mitigation bonuses of sets like Potentate.
Nothing was done regarding Red CP of target reducing released damage (while already reducing incoming damage that result in lower released damage) while Blue CP of caster, that in similar way should add modifier to all damage, is not increasing final damage, i.e. skill getting double-mitigated.
And finally skill wasnt adjusted with release of Relics, where even despite released damage getting affected by damage done/taking modifierd - yet Malacath damage damage modifier doesnt boost released damage.
And it getting bit frustrating, especially for me, when I showing properly with numbers and videos Backlash bugs yet bugs that increases benefits Backlash damage getting fixed as fast as can but not a single bug that largely reducing effectiveness of skill was fixed after all this time...

To properly adjust skill zos should do just a couple simple steps:
1. Increase % of storing damage to take into account that it no longer has group utility.
2. Remove cap on amount of released damage.
3. Remove rulebreaking capability of released damage to deal Critical Damage.
4. Fix interaction of released damage with CP modifiers.
5. Fix, i.e. remove interaction or properly update currently inconsistent interaction of released damage with non-CP sources of take done/taken modifiers. Like, Berserk buff increase it but Malacath no, why... Major/minor Armor buffs reduce it but default Armor no, why...
With such treatment in pvp - we would get skill that can actually deal sugnificant amount of damage on dolid damage spec, will be benefit from crit as higher crit->higher stored damage->higher released damage; but unlike currently it wont be fully dependant on rng crit of released damage. With fixes it wont have rudiculous spikes in released damage when enemy stacking lot of mitigation effects.
In PvE we will get skill which damage will be limited to your own damage capability and not by cap of stored damage, while without crit you wont get anyway rudiculous amount of released damage, instead of how currently it fully dependant on crit in attempt to achieve same damage output as burst skills of other classes. While fixed interaction with Blue CP will also help boost its damage.

However main balancing problem is still in skill mechanics per se:
1. Lot of calculations for skill make it too hard to fix and to easy to break. Remember original bug during overhaul that storing damage formula was bugged and had raming increase of stored damage, allowing you to achieve cap after just couple light attacks.
2. Skill is like class version of Zaan - it effect fully focusing on just 1 target for its full duration snd cant be dynsmically applied on another like other burst skills (for example light attack anyone you want with Bound Weapons and then release damage on anyone you want). And for that it should have very strong effect.
And thats risking to grant skill too much stuggering power. Like Zaan and similar stuff was getting nerfed sooner or later.

For those reasons I would just suggest to give up on Backlash and turn it into yet another dot and then overhaul Dark Flare/Sollar Barrage into delayed burst skill similar to Shalks or Blastbones (or Assassin Will/Bound Weapons if zos want single target burst skill for templar).
First, those skills showed its effectiveness and they don't have complexed calculations so it wont bug easily.
Second, zos showed that they want to do smrh with AoEs to improve perfomance and it seems those delayed burst skills dont affect it as it doesnt even have cooldowns attached to them.
Or just again fully overhaul Backlash to be proper burst skill that actually working.

Husan

@Cinbri I would just like to say respect for still standing up for templars. I gave up fighting for the cause several years ago, but I remember seeing your name popping up and doing your part since 2015. It's unbelieavable to me you are still so calm and calculated eventhough your words fall on deaf ears at ZOS for so many years, especially since your arguments are always well thought out and also often supplemented by mathematical calculations. Unwavering, unfaltering, still fighting the fight. You are the true undaunted . Keep up the good work!

Joy_Division

Here's a fun thought experiment.

Divide all of the Templar's skills into two categories: 1) those which were better at launch to 1.5 , 2) those which are better now.

• Better now

Radial Sweep.
Maybe Javelin?
Rune Focus

• Better at launch

Puncturing Strikes
Focused Charge
Spear shards
Sun shield
Nova
Sun Fire
Solar Flare
Eclipse
Blinding flashes
Rushed Ceremony
Restoring Aura
Cleansing Ritual

Shouldn't a game improve as time goes on?

Firstmep

Joy_Division wrote: »

Here's a fun thought experiment.

Divide all of the Templar's skills into two categories: 1) those which were better at launch to 1.5 , 2) those which are better now.

• Better now

Radial Sweep.
Maybe Javelin?
Rune Focus

• Better at launch

Puncturing Strikes
Focused Charge
Spear shards
Sun shield
Nova
Sun Fire
Solar Flare
Eclipse
Blinding flashes
Rushed Ceremony
Restoring Aura
Cleansing Ritual

Shouldn't a game improve as time goes on?

Looking at this list the number of nerfs templars received(some of these skills like Rushed Ceremony received multiple nerfs), is kinda mind boggling.
We are at the point where templars dont even make the list for top 3 Healers for pve or pvp.

Koubo

Cinbri wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

POL is trash compared to BB/stalks and curse. No one will use it anymore. No unique buff lower damage that you have to build yourself. Sure it can crit and in theory you can get good damage but just slot a fighters guild ability and get better damage guarantee.

Soul Trap is usually more damage than POTL with how fast everyone is these days. This skill is really pathetic design. It doesn't even scale properly with weapon/spell dmg, gets double mitigated, and takes a full six seconds of uninterrupted other damage. Come on ZOS.

Backlash was just another step in ruining damage output of class.:
First devs nerfed Backlash that was our version of burst skill, blatantly nerfed instead of adjusting (read below) when they removed capability to store damage from all sources. Even then I did suggested to templars to not be so happy that it cancerous group utility was removed coz inexchange it want adjusted to be strong burst skill for class per se, as other classes have, and in result of this potentially good fix - we will suffer even more. And sadly it turned that way.
So with Backlash nerf obviously every templar would try to replace it with dots, on magplar it was Dawn Wrath skills. Aaaaand then zos nerfed "dot meta" and ruined damage of all dots, even those that were completely fine for years before dot meta.
So with dots becoming no longer a viable playstyle what would we do - ofc slot burst back again but rip - our burst skill was blatantly killed. So we sit in rudiculous situation where everything we can is just spamming Jabs and stack procsets.
And, like if wasnt enough, Burning Light recieved massive nerf in pvp in the name of perfomance improvement, so even Jabs spam became longer actually dangerous.

Regarding Backlash itself:
Backlash indeed terrible, and simply coz zos didnt adjusted skill but just blatantly nerfed, like:
Reason of Low % of stored damage was because it stored damage from all people.
Reason why it had cap on max stored damage was because same again - store damage from everyone.
It is logically to assume that when capability to store damage from all sources will be removed all affilated mechanics of skill should be adjusted, right? But nope devs treated it in some weird way:
Affilated mechanics were not adjusted.
1. As result we remained with low % of storing damage even when group utility was removed, even despite % was balanced around group utility. No logic.
2. Max stored damage cap remained even tho reason of why cap was there in the first place was removed. No logic again.
And then instead of addressing those problems by adjusting affilated mechanics devs decided to fix it in illogical way:
To make skill actually working for pve, where it looks weird that skill that skill that you have actively invest damage into deal same or even lower damage every 6sec than for example Frags that can proc ~3sec, devs just allowed released damage to crit. By this change they:
A. Didnt made it damage-wise better but only even further rng-based heavily dependant on crit chance.
B. Break their own claims that skills should not double dip, since now all stored damage can crit and then released crit - fouble crit.
In addition years later still nothing done regarding released damage (that on paper should not be affected by everything) being affected by damage reduction effects like Protection buff or unique mitigation bonuses of sets like Potentate.
Nothing was done regarding Red CP of target reducing released damage (while already reducing incoming damage that result in lower released damage) while Blue CP of caster, that in similar way should add modifier to all damage, is not increasing final damage, i.e. skill getting double-mitigated.
And finally skill wasnt adjusted with release of Relics, where even despite released damage getting affected by damage done/taking modifierd - yet Malacath damage damage modifier doesnt boost released damage.
And it getting bit frustrating, especially for me, when I showing properly with numbers and videos Backlash bugs yet bugs that increases benefits Backlash damage getting fixed as fast as can but not a single bug that largely reducing effectiveness of skill was fixed after all this time...

To properly adjust skill zos should do just a couple simple steps:
1. Increase % of storing damage to take into account that it no longer has group utility.
2. Remove cap on amount of released damage.
3. Remove rulebreaking capability of released damage to deal Critical Damage.
4. Fix interaction of released damage with CP modifiers.
5. Fix, i.e. remove interaction or properly update currently inconsistent interaction of released damage with non-CP sources of take done/taken modifiers. Like, Berserk buff increase it but Malacath no, why... Major/minor Armor buffs reduce it but default Armor no, why...
With such treatment in pvp - we would get skill that can actually deal sugnificant amount of damage on dolid damage spec, will be benefit from crit as higher crit->higher stored damage->higher released damage; but unlike currently it wont be fully dependant on rng crit of released damage. With fixes it wont have rudiculous spikes in released damage when enemy stacking lot of mitigation effects.
In PvE we will get skill which damage will be limited to your own damage capability and not by cap of stored damage, while without crit you wont get anyway rudiculous amount of released damage, instead of how currently it fully dependant on crit in attempt to achieve same damage output as burst skills of other classes. While fixed interaction with Blue CP will also help boost its damage.

However main balancing problem is still in skill mechanics per se:
1. Lot of calculations for skill make it too hard to fix and to easy to break. Remember original bug during overhaul that storing damage formula was bugged and had raming increase of stored damage, allowing you to achieve cap after just couple light attacks.
2. Skill is like class version of Zaan - it effect fully focusing on just 1 target for its full duration snd cant be dynsmically applied on another like other burst skills (for example light attack anyone you want with Bound Weapons and then release damage on anyone you want). And for that it should have very strong effect.
And thats risking to grant skill too much stuggering power. Like Zaan and similar stuff was getting nerfed sooner or later.

For those reasons I would just suggest to give up on Backlash and turn it into yet another dot and then overhaul Dark Flare/Sollar Barrage into delayed burst skill similar to Shalks or Blastbones (or Assassin Will/Bound Weapons if zos want single target burst skill for templar).
First, those skills showed its effectiveness and they don't have complexed calculations so it wont bug easily.
Second, zos showed that they want to do smrh with AoEs to improve perfomance and it seems those delayed burst skills dont affect it as it doesnt even have cooldowns attached to them.
Or just again fully overhaul Backlash to be proper burst skill that actually working.

I love your explanation. Still, the last recommendation wouldn't solved the problem of POTL for Stamplar. Because i'm main StamPlar first i feel bad when this skill isn't better than JabSpamming with one more FG skill. I think i've said many time that i was in favor for a better toolkit for StamPlar, but in the actual state of the PTS, we can really droop POTL and slot Chain or anything from FG and just spam Jab even more -_-
ZoS cant stay in that situation without throwing us freaking BONE(S)

montiferus

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

West93 wrote: »

-Ritual sucks in both pvp and pve now.

No lol. I've been playing a fair bit of Stamplar this patch, in PVE their DPS is very good atm and Ritual performs well.

It is a very minor DPS boost while a huge loss in group and solo utility. I exclusively PVE with stamplar in trials and VMA and I would go back to the old Ritual in a millisecond.

Nobody is saying their DPS isn't good. Im at 85k and I am not even max CP but the change to Ritual was terrible and not asked for.

stefj68

well our stamina regen skills, need corpse to be able to heal / recover some stamina, in long fight its a pain, not every boss have adds, sustain his hard...

only usefull skills i use now is jabs

with ritual of retribution nerf

and all others over the years

this is the toughest stamina class to stay alive

no based % heal

feel squishy like a table cloth

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Yes, please give us more options!

Don't do the usual 'one class sits on the bench' thing again. By limiting our class's usability you possibly turn people away from organised content and I certainly don't think it's a time for that.

llBlack_Heartll

PoL with the removal for minor fracture and breach, should be 100% chance to crit.

WreckfulAbandon

At this point we should be rooting for even more nerfs since they will do the standard ZOS kneejerk reaction and overbuff the hell out of them at some point. Then when they nerf them into the ground again you just swap to different classes. All of you Templar mains should already be familiar with this process at this point, you simply don't main classes anymore, especially Templar, take notes all you new players in here.

Templar is entirely OP and needs a nerf. Also, please buff Polar Wind, think of the poor Magdens.

Koubo

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

At this point we should be rooting for even more nerfs since they will do the standard ZOS kneejerk reaction and overbuff the hell out of them at some point. Then when they nerf them into the ground again you just swap to different classes. All of you Templar mains should already be familiar with this process at this point, you simply don't main classes anymore, especially Templar, take notes all you new players in here.

Templar is entirely OP and needs a nerf. Also, please buff Polar Wind, think of the poor Magdens.

i like the joke, beside, some of us are still not that old in the game (i'm a bit more than 5 months old) so, even if i understand the rotation about OPiness (to force you to switch, farm, and keep playing) i dont understand why a class should underperform to the point there is not point to play it over another one. We dont designe a team play around 3/5 of the character/class playable actually playable while rest is just figurant. But. . . I guess everyone is agree with that anyway.

Firstmep

Koubo wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

At this point we should be rooting for even more nerfs since they will do the standard ZOS kneejerk reaction and overbuff the hell out of them at some point. Then when they nerf them into the ground again you just swap to different classes. All of you Templar mains should already be familiar with this process at this point, you simply don't main classes anymore, especially Templar, take notes all you new players in here.

Templar is entirely OP and needs a nerf. Also, please buff Polar Wind, think of the poor Magdens.

i like the joke, beside, some of us are still not that old in the game (i'm a bit more than 5 months old) so, even if i understand the rotation about OPiness (to force you to switch, farm, and keep playing) i dont understand why a class should underperform to the point there is not point to play it over another one. We dont designe a team play around 3/5 of the character/class playable actually playable while rest is just figurant. But. . . I guess everyone is agree with that anyway.

Zos isn't necesseraly on a crusade to make Templar unplayable, a lot of the latest set of nerfs in their opinion were fixes and small adjustments.
Sadly they didn't really think far anougj ahead to see the consequences.
They probably did single target dummy parses and thought the new burning light was fine, even tho it's a massive nerf for pve aoe and all forms of pvp.
And they have a very narrow focus, meaning if they're fiddling with sets or major minor buffs they just won't look at classes during the same cycle.

Koubo

Firstmep wrote: »

Koubo wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

At this point we should be rooting for even more nerfs since they will do the standard ZOS kneejerk reaction and overbuff the hell out of them at some point. Then when they nerf them into the ground again you just swap to different classes. All of you Templar mains should already be familiar with this process at this point, you simply don't main classes anymore, especially Templar, take notes all you new players in here.

Templar is entirely OP and needs a nerf. Also, please buff Polar Wind, think of the poor Magdens.

i like the joke, beside, some of us are still not that old in the game (i'm a bit more than 5 months old) so, even if i understand the rotation about OPiness (to force you to switch, farm, and keep playing) i dont understand why a class should underperform to the point there is not point to play it over another one. We dont designe a team play around 3/5 of the character/class playable actually playable while rest is just figurant. But. . . I guess everyone is agree with that anyway.

Zos isn't necesseraly on a crusade to make Templar unplayable, a lot of the latest set of nerfs in their opinion were fixes and small adjustments.
Sadly they didn't really think far anougj ahead to see the consequences.
They probably did single target dummy parses and thought the new burning light was fine, even tho it's a massive nerf for pve aoe and all forms of pvp.
And they have a very narrow focus, meaning if they're fiddling with sets or major minor buffs they just won't look at classes during the same cycle.

I know, but all our feedback was pointless and that pissed me off ! What is the goal or purpose of this forum at this point?

Marginis

And here I still find that Templars are the only class that's consistently good at everything since the healing/orbs nerf...

West93

Marginis wrote: »

And here I still find that Templars are the only class that's consistently good at everything since the healing/orbs nerf...

Not in solo pvp/dueling

Greystag

Their passives REALLY should get a change.

Light Weaver: This will very rarely be used. You don't see people fall below 50% consistently.

Master Ritualist: Res speed is nice (even though it never made much sense to me since Templars usually heal and Healers aren't supposed to res in this game, for the most part) and the soulgem thing is gimmicky at best. I'd rather buy soulgems myself and have a real passive. Soulgems are incredibly common these days too.

Enduring Rays: In my opinion, this passive is kind of redundant. They should give the skills the extra duration instead.


One or two of these really should be replaced by a sustain passive.

Koubo

Greystag wrote: »

Soulgems are incredibly common these days too.

they are a source of income gold in my case, i gave them for free to friends if they just dont have it (for alts, sometimes you forgot to pick some or idk, i dont really care)
This passive is just a joke. The last healing tier is 95% useless.

West93

Maybe give necromancer fill a soulgem passive (necro play with soulgems lore wise) and give us any of the necro passive.

Extra health sounds nice and so 20% increase healing crit chance, 8% healing increase while having negative effect, 1.5k pen I want those.

Kamchuk

So – have you ever seen Ghostbusters 2 (1989)? There is this scene where there is a couple who think they are in a waiting room waiting to see a couples therapist. And they have been waiting for 2.5 hours. And Egon (Harold Ramis) is slowly turning up the temperature in the room to measure their emotional state. You can clearly see that they are about to go “postal” and Egon tells his assistant to raise the temperature another 2 degrees.

Well that describes the state of Templars. ZOS is Egon. The couple in the waiting room are Templars waiting for their class to get a single buff. But they have been waiting for 2.5 years. And ZOS keeps raising the “temperature” with continuous nerfs.

I’m starting to think that ZOS’ goal is to eliminate Templars entirely. People will get so enraged that they will give up and move to another class. That way ZOS can safely remove it. Perhaps replacing it with the new MAGE class when they come out with the College of Winterhold DLC.

BTW - @Husan – loved your formula. But It looks like you have the SQRT(fun) in the denominator(?) “Fun” is clearly approaching zero when talking about Templars and that would make the power levels infinite. (Sorry, I’m an old Mathematician / Computer Scientist…) 😊

PandaPalace

Is Spear Shards still only 1 person synergy while orbs synergy is for everyone?

Marginis

West93 wrote: »

Marginis wrote: »

And here I still find that Templars are the only class that's consistently good at everything since the healing/orbs nerf...

Not in solo pvp/dueling

Fair, I was referring mostly to PVE and just my experience, which is not everyone's.

Altyrann

And pretty please can we fix weaving with sweeps / jabs / flare when there is any level of lag / desync?

Langeston

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

[snip]

I won't search for exact patch numbers but I will do so if forced to, this is just last few patches.
Living dark/Unstable core overbuff;
Ritual being cleanse, soft cc, damage and heal tool at the same time while twisting path was nerfed because of being damage and healing skill at the same time;
PoTL/Purifying Light being bugged (in favor of templars) for very long.
Templars as the only ones evading cast time on burst ult.

Many of those things were balanced after some time bringing templars more in line with vanilla classes, that's true, but please stop overreacting.

This patch minor/major tweaks we can see for magblades bring only nerfs, while templars now get unique (very easy) access to minor sorcery, minor breach and all 3 minor recovery's which all got buffed.

Are templars top class? For sure no! Are they bottom class? No way.

[snip] Most peoples recovery is around 500-900. Even if you took 20% of that, its still an awful number. Yahoo my recovery goes up a little but only if i slot repentance and have it front bar'd.

I stopped playing my magplar entirely a few patches ago to play a magblade. It was like switching from a Toyota to a Ferrari. Ranged spammable that is a HoT, shade, options on builds depending on group (cripple for the cheap DoT vs lotus fan for the minor vulnerability), unique buffs in reave and 20% additional damage for 6 seconds after using incap. Nice luxury for also having the strongest burst skill in the game (merciless bow proc). On a test dummy i can get some bow procs around 90k. Works swimmingly with impale too. Pretty easy rotation just count to 4 and light attack bow proc, and the best part it gets easier during execute. The hardest part is managing your potions to best serve your ultimate generation.

At this point i could care less about templars. [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Unless I'm mistaken, it seems like you are talking about PVE here. If that's the case, then I think you're comparing apples & oranges because I'm fairly certain that @Mayrael is focused on PVP. While your post may be correct with regards to PVE, nearly everything in it is inapplicable (or even wrong) in PVP.

For all I know magblade may indeed be a Ferrari in PVE, but they're a 1983 Dodge Omni in PVP.