Why no love for Templar?

Hoolielulu

Solariken wrote: »

I've mained stamplar since game launch, and I've never felt this frustrated. I'm trying to work up the nerve to change my main but I've got so much invested in this character.

Burning Light and POTL nerfs obliterated what little power the class had left.

Most classes have really strong gimmicks and special synergies that you can build around and really lean into. Stamplar has nothing to build for except weapon damage, and Power of the Light doesn't even scale with it lol.

Maybe if they added a 1k DPS DOT to Power of the Light it would be at least usable.

Burning Light needs an extension on the timer at least to 4 seconds.

Binding Javelin stun should be made unblockable. If Sorcs can unavoidably stun 12 people with damage then I think we should be able to stun 1 through block. God-like strength amirite?

And lastly we really need a disengage. Living Dark is the only skill we have for this so make the heal proc on all damage and add Major Protection (new nerfed value)

I'm so disheartened. I've worked so hard to adjust my stamplar with every change they make and I can't do it anymore. I don't even know what to change to.

Husan

Hoolielulu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I've mained stamplar since game launch, and I've never felt this frustrated. I'm trying to work up the nerve to change my main but I've got so much invested in this character.

Burning Light and POTL nerfs obliterated what little power the class had left.

Most classes have really strong gimmicks and special synergies that you can build around and really lean into. Stamplar has nothing to build for except weapon damage, and Power of the Light doesn't even scale with it lol.

Maybe if they added a 1k DPS DOT to Power of the Light it would be at least usable.

Burning Light needs an extension on the timer at least to 4 seconds.

Binding Javelin stun should be made unblockable. If Sorcs can unavoidably stun 12 people with damage then I think we should be able to stun 1 through block. God-like strength amirite?

And lastly we really need a disengage. Living Dark is the only skill we have for this so make the heal proc on all damage and add Major Protection (new nerfed value)

I'm so disheartened. I've worked so hard to adjust my stamplar with every change they make and I can't do it anymore. I don't even know what to change to.

If you're talking about PvE, I tested 5 briarheart + 5 deadly strike with the new healing ring on the PTS (have to sacrifice monster helm slot) and it works really well for solo content (example Vateshran Hollows). Ofcourse stamsorc does it better, but I'll take what I can get.

For PVP, put on 5 unleashed terror with maelstrom 2h on the frontbar, add a 5 piece proc set of choice on backbar, with a monster helm on choice and just POTL->poison arrow->bar swap->crit rush people. Ofcourse you will again quickly find out stamsorc does it better (so does stamcro, stamden and stamblade, but I digress).

In any case, we are the best dummy parsers, so that counts for something? Right? Right?!?

mmtaniac

Yeah i hate that too. I try to change something always on stamplar test things try this and that ,but no matter what you do nothing works. You can take any gear on warden or nightblade and still this work just better and easier on those classes you feel more powerful.

Hoolielulu

Husan wrote: »

Hoolielulu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I've mained stamplar since game launch, and I've never felt this frustrated. I'm trying to work up the nerve to change my main but I've got so much invested in this character.

Burning Light and POTL nerfs obliterated what little power the class had left.

Most classes have really strong gimmicks and special synergies that you can build around and really lean into. Stamplar has nothing to build for except weapon damage, and Power of the Light doesn't even scale with it lol.

Maybe if they added a 1k DPS DOT to Power of the Light it would be at least usable.

Burning Light needs an extension on the timer at least to 4 seconds.

Binding Javelin stun should be made unblockable. If Sorcs can unavoidably stun 12 people with damage then I think we should be able to stun 1 through block. God-like strength amirite?

And lastly we really need a disengage. Living Dark is the only skill we have for this so make the heal proc on all damage and add Major Protection (new nerfed value)

I'm so disheartened. I've worked so hard to adjust my stamplar with every change they make and I can't do it anymore. I don't even know what to change to.

If you're talking about PvE, I tested 5 briarheart + 5 deadly strike with the new healing ring on the PTS (have to sacrifice monster helm slot) and it works really well for solo content (example Vateshran Hollows). Ofcourse stamsorc does it better, but I'll take what I can get.

For PVP, put on 5 unleashed terror with maelstrom 2h on the frontbar, add a 5 piece proc set of choice on backbar, with a monster helm on choice and just POTL->poison arrow->bar swap->crit rush people. Ofcourse you will again quickly find out stamsorc does it better (so does stamcro, stamden and stamblade, but I digress).

In any case, we are the best dummy parsers, so that counts for something? Right? Right?!?

So what you're saying is switch to stamsorc lol

I just don't know how I feel about tearing apart my build again only to feel like I'm still struggling. I'll have to think about this.

techyeshic

Hoolielulu wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

I've mained stamplar since game launch, and I've never felt this frustrated. I'm trying to work up the nerve to change my main but I've got so much invested in this character.

Burning Light and POTL nerfs obliterated what little power the class had left.

Most classes have really strong gimmicks and special synergies that you can build around and really lean into. Stamplar has nothing to build for except weapon damage, and Power of the Light doesn't even scale with it lol.

Maybe if they added a 1k DPS DOT to Power of the Light it would be at least usable.

Burning Light needs an extension on the timer at least to 4 seconds.

Binding Javelin stun should be made unblockable. If Sorcs can unavoidably stun 12 people with damage then I think we should be able to stun 1 through block. God-like strength amirite?

And lastly we really need a disengage. Living Dark is the only skill we have for this so make the heal proc on all damage and add Major Protection (new nerfed value)

I'm so disheartened. I've worked so hard to adjust my stamplar with every change they make and I can't do it anymore. I don't even know what to change to.

Same here for Cyrodiil. I even have tried to make it work this patch but testing has had me feeling forced to use other classes more than not. And I really start to see how much better the others are. Even if I get stats up to par with crappy passives, you need burst and POTL and Burning Light are gimped. Jabs/sweeps took a hit but still do hit hard...when they land. And no defensive with much.

West93

And even though templars are bottom tier, this patch still no any buff for templars again.

Drdeath20

My thoughts on templar dps in pve.

-Weak passives
-4 ultimates/morphs that are sub par in comparison to world skill alternatives and just about identical to their morph counterpart
-A fairly big list of skills that are either soo nieche or far too underpowered in comparison to running other options to ever consider slotting
-Channels, cast times, travel times, delays on just about everything

I can do well as a damage dealer on either a magplar or stamplar. Most content its easy to be vampire, boosting up my damage with shimmering, bcz sweeps and radiant glory are strong enough to keep me at full health . Not a super awesome scenario but definitely effective, there are problems though. Cost increase from being a vampire, increased fire damage taken and being stuck playing melee. Unique damage skills like purifying light, vampires bane and ritual of retribution are not good enough to crack my bar bcz
-a 6 second burst skill overcomplicates my already clunky rotation. It just gets in the way of me trying to get as many burning light tics as possible.
-16 second DoT is too awkward to use optimally and the major prophecy is useless bcz i have it passively with inner light and from a potion. It being the only fire damage skill in the templar toolkit just makes it more bizarre.
-ritual of retribution is an expensive skill for damage alone but for the few pve scenarios where i need a purge its nice to have.

As a stamplar ive dropped everything but jabs off my frontbar. Just a bunch of fighters guild abilities with 1 skill to buff. There is just no good reason to slot anything else there, I am fully reliant on 1 skill in either scenario (sweeps or jabs). Its not that templars are in capable of dealing some good damage its that templars are lacking in a multitude of other ways as a damage dealer.

After playing a templar i am left with a few questions/suggestions

1. Why cant solar barrage have a 20 second duration? Having to constantly start from zero every 10 seconds is just obnoxious. I already spend over 5 seconds of my 10 second rotation reapplying DoTs/buffs, add in an ultimate and thats not much time to use my sweeps (which has a clunky 1.1 second channel). Shards+ orbs+ rune+ solar barrage + shimmering + ultimate, does not leave alot of time to use sweeps. Having 1 less cast of solar barrage every other rotation is overdue.

2. Something needs to be done with purifying light. I love the idea of adding up your own personal damage to get a burst effect. While it is awkward sneaking it into a rotation its not hard. The biggest problem is that takes alot of work to use/fill up and the payoff is middling. The secondary effect , a small stationary HoT tic, is just silly. Either im in melee range and sweeps is enough to heal myself or im at range and this effect is almost completely lost. If anything can we please have something like when my purifying light booms we heal for the amount it explodes for? With this solo change atleast when i play a ranged magplar ill have some self healing and its not like it changes anything if i use sweeps.

3. Why cant radiant aura just be magicka repentance? I mean a 15% buff to all recovery sounds strong but my mag recovery is somewhere around 800 while my stam is somewhere around 400 and my health is around 200 from being a vampire. 15% of any of those numbers is pathetic and its lost on bar swaps to add insult to injury. Lets pretend that i had 1000 recovery on all stats 15% of that is still only 150 more recovery every other second, not super awesome. The AoE application of minor magsteal is very ineffective because the debuff only works from 1 target at a time but i guess for group support its the slightest, littlest of luxuries. When you really think about it though its only beneficial on mobs and if your struggling with sustain on mobs, you have deeper problems. In the end I'd slot ele drain bcz its secondary effect is much more beneficial. Now that minor magsteal has been nerfed its make this skill even less appealing. At the very least the 15% buff to all recovery stats should last the duration of the skill and especially bar swaps but even then i doubt i would choose this over rune. After many years ln the forums, I have yet to hear a good reason why we just cant have a magicka repentance. We already have monster sets and BiS magicka damage dealing sets that automatically repent corpses and the return is stronger than repentance.

4. Can we get our ultimates looked at? I get that solar prism has value and remembrance has value in that they offer some group buffs. Can we all agree that solar disturbance and praticed incarnation are the bargain bin copy of those same ultimates?! I'd advocate that these 2 ulitmate morphs are ripe to be changed. Praticed incarnation could be some kind of help for a tank and solar disturbance could be the big stamina ultimate. Doesnt help magplars much but for single target id choose ice comet, for cleave id use destro, for cheap ultimate id use aedric spear ultimate and for damage reduction /damage dealing i'd use nova. Stamplars dont get much love in the ultimate department and well neither do tanks.

5. Can we revert ritual of retribution change? In reality its like an 800 dps boost to lose 1200 hps heal. Not really a 1 for 1 trade off. Stamplars really rely on the off healing, without it the off healing is very weak.

This still leaves a laundry list of untouched templar issues but alas' i am losing steam. I guess it would take far too much to get me jazzed to play a templar again and yes ill admit they are fairly decent dps inspite of the sea of problems they have. They just are not fun constantly spamming jabs or the same 10 second rotation in perpetude. I dont think they need a dps increase but theh definitely need some real QoL adjustments.

Synssaturdayy9

Just found out the global cooldown on jabs might still happen and im probs done with this class once that happens i tried to play other classes as well it's just not the same

YandereGirlfriend

Radiant Aura definitely needs some love.

Change it to grant all of the Minor sustain buffs on-cast for 20 seconds (or, better yet, 30 seconds!) so that way you can at least avoid having to double-bar it in order to get any utility from it in PvP.

It's really the least they can do to compensate the skill for the incoming Minor Magickasteal nerf.

sandelius

So will we see any love for templar tanks?

Synssaturdayy9

3 second cast times 😢

Firstmep

I'll be honest playing stamplar, when I can play stamsorc or necro is kinda stupid.
No survivability, sustain and now no dmg built into the class.
At best I can provide purge synergy.
Yay.

universal_wrath

Big shout out to ZOS for ignoring this thread, Just like 99% of other informative threads out there.

Urvoth

Magplar is still way better than magcro for pvp. Blastbones is the only decent non-ult dmg skill in their kit and it’s super buggy. It also stil doesn’t have a secondary effect.

Sanguinor2

Urvoth wrote: »

Magplar is still way better than magcro for pvp. Blastbones is the only decent non-ult dmg skill in their kit and it’s super buggy. It also stil doesn’t have a secondary effect.

First we had magblades come in and complain about their class in a templar thread and now we got magcros too. Reading titles sure seems difficult.
No one denies magcro being trash in pvp but that A doesnt make templar good and B doesnt belong in a topic about templars since templars are quite obviously not magcros and vice versa.

hexentb16_ESO

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Gorreck

Synssaturdayy9 wrote: »

Just found out the global cooldown on jabs might still happen and im probs done with this class once that happens i tried to play other classes as well it's just not the same

That will require a complete class rebuild, or much more likely hardly anyone playing a Magplar and absolutely no one (at all, ever) playing a Stamplar.

Sanguinor2

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Altyrann

A few suggestions for Magplar (PvE), mostly focused on quality of life as balance can be covered just by tweaking numbers.

- Revert the change to Ritual of Retribution. Having a heal over time is critical in a lot of content. On live you switch from overhealing when using Sweeps to no self healing at all any other time.

- Have the Enduring Rays passive also change Purifying Light to 5s to explode. With the DoT review a few patches back basically forcing all rotations to 10s a 6s delay is just clunky

- If the AoE element of Ritual healing is considered too strong, change the secondary effect of Purifying to heal you for X% of your damage done to the target for the duration instead of the current tiny healing puddle

- Extend the duration of empower from Dark Flare so that when PTS hits a ranged setup can have the equivalent level of uptime to melee

- Reduce the channel/cast time of Sweeps and Dark Flare to enable weaving on real fights and in scenarios with latency. They will still be limited by 1s GCD but it will be a huge QoL buff. See Flurry for a much better similar skill.

- Make the Magicka morph of Repentance (fairly telling that I can't even think what it's called) do something useful. This could be a simple mirror of the stamina morph or something focused on ongoing sustain (possibly something with better sustain than focus but without the secondary effect of boosted resistances)

- Remove the mechanic where Burning Light going off removes stacks from all targets and have it instead remove stacks only from targets where it reaches 4 stacks and goes off so this can be effective in AoE as well as ST scenarios. Increase the duration of stacks to account for movement when using sweeps meaning not all 4 stacks always hit

Joy_Division

Banana wrote: »

Come sit in the corner with us dks

We've been together since prolly 2015.

Drdeath20

I mean i have moved on from my stamplar and magplar(PVE): Magdk, magsorc, magcro, magblade. The all infuriate me bcz i see unique class power and then i play my templar.

Magdk is almost as bad as templars ATM, no execute and no challenge/goal to aim for in the rotation makes them an absolute bore to play (especially with elfbane).

Magplars are in worse shape, just a class that doesnt have much. Stamplars have jabs that is it.

Gorreck

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Stamplars have jabs that is it.

Until the AOE CD goes live anyway.

hexentb16_ESO

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Both. Entire game is easy mode when I'm on my templar. Maybe it would be more challenging if I went against the Templar's strengths but I work with them and I'm basically a killing machine that can't be killed while playing with him.

Husan

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Both. Entire game is easy mode when I'm on my templar. Maybe it would be more challenging if I went against the Templar's strengths but I work with them and I'm basically a killing machine that can't be killed while playing with him.

Tell us more. We are genuinely interested. As you can see there are 8 pages of frustrated templars here and many more threads all over the forums. If you know of a a secret technique that plays with the templars strenghts we would like to know about them. Be a good guy and help us out, because apparently we are missing something.

Thanks, champ.

West93

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Both. Entire game is easy mode when I'm on my templar. Maybe it would be more challenging if I went against the Templar's strengths but I work with them and I'm basically a killing machine that can't be killed while playing with him.

I am sure you are the killing machine in overland PVE doing harborage quests.

Drdeath20

I find my templars very polarizing as a damage dealer. On easy content i feel OP but on certain very difficult content, stuff where range, burst, mobility and offhealing matter i feel fairly under tooled as a templar.

Gorreck

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

hexentb16_ESO wrote: »

I play templar a lot and I'm glad they're not getting any love. Even now the game is still easy mode while playing templar.

Im curious, do you play PvE or PvP? And if you PvP do you play against players that actually fight back and know you dont have to stand still in jabs or against complete potatoes?

Both. Entire game is easy mode when I'm on my templar. Maybe it would be more challenging if I went against the Templar's strengths but I work with them and I'm basically a killing machine that can't be killed while playing with him.

PvP as a Stamplar is most definately not what I'd call "easy mode" at the moment, they've lost a lot of power (direct and relative) over the last few patches and may well be as weak as they've ever been on anything but test dummies.

Fuzzybrick

I'm enjoying both my stamplars as is now. Please don't change anything.... I'm tired of listening to friends cry about their favorite skill being changed into a stamina skill to satisfy the crowd. (Mag sorc friends that actually used that skill that turned into crystal weapons)

My 2 cent.
If I were to have my druthers, I'd do away with both Magicka and stamina. And instead have class skills that either a DPS and tank or DPS and healer could use that pull from one resource pool. But I also prefer clear cut rolls, and not all these Jack of all trades we got here.

stefj68

no love for the stamina templar dps / tank for a while, it needs to be revesited badly!

techyeshic

Im waiting for these AOE tests in Cyrodiil to come to an end and would not be surprised if the devs come out and say "X test, while not 100% where we'd like to be, provided the best results so we are going to leave it on indefinite and visit skill reworks on rhe next PTS cycle." Effectively leaving Templar nearly unused for 3 more months. At least. From there; who knows? Maybe it winds up like that CP rework.

I mean its pretty pathetic right now. Been playing stamina NB for a bunch of these tests. I have 1 death to a templar in my kill counter stats. Pretty sure I remember it as 1 just spamming RD while I was getting zerged. Killed 100 of them.