DK dead Class?

YandereGirlfriend

MagDens... good for one single patch cycle and now back to the basement.

LightYagami

rrimöykk wrote: »

RIP DK - nothing but nerfs for the whole year. All feedback ignored for every single pts cycle during this year.

Because the original design of DKs was too similar to the two lovely new classes (tanky and can deal good damage at the same time), so DKs are nerfed heavily. It may be purely a business consideration.

Think about how costly DKs' skills are, while the jelly fish netch of Wardens gives them FREE cleanse, FREE buff, FREE regeneration all together as ONE skill.

Think about DKs as a DoT class, have no DoT buff, but the DoT buff is given to Necromancers.

One more point, think about Magdks in PvP, Slow, No execution, Lack of range, Lack of burst. That's why I very rarely see magdks on my death recap.

By the way, they did very slightly changed some useless skills of DKs, but still far below useful levels, at least in PvP.

I believe developers have statistics of different classes and they know how bad MagdDKs are, and how"god mode" some other classes are, especially in PvP. The problem is that the game is a business, their concern is not only how to balance the class, but more importantly how to earn more profit.

Urzigurumash

No DOT buff? How about "Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 33% and the duration by 4 seconds."

I'm kidding. This passive, if it's going to be constrained to class DOTs, should at least do something for the other class DOTs: Eruption, Volatile Armor, etc.

Urzigurumash

Maybe something like "Every DK class DOT has an X% chance 'saving throw' against a Purge, and each additional DK class DOT applied raises this chance by X%"

Also, to go along with that, we could use some Flames of Oblivion-like scaling on some of these DOTs so StamDK can make good use of this hypothetical passive beyond Breath, Claw, and Corrosive.

LightYagami

Urzigurumash wrote: »

No DOT buff? How about "Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 33% and the duration by 4 seconds."

I'm kidding. This passive, if it's going to be constrained to class DOTs, should at least do something for the other class DOTs: Eruption, Volatile Armor, etc.

These are buffs to the skill line only, not overall DoT buff.
The REAL dot buff for ALL DoT is given to Necromancers.

Recapitated

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Maybe something like "Every DK class DOT has an X% chance 'saving throw' against a Purge, and each additional DK class DOT applied raises this chance by X%"

Also, to go along with that, we could use some Flames of Oblivion-like scaling on some of these DOTs so StamDK can make good use of this hypothetical passive beyond Breath, Claw, and Corrosive.

Could gain stacks that reduce purge chance as you deal damage of the same type, so say DOT poisons, Poisoned, Burning and whip increase the chance of persistence.

LightYagami

This is the REAL DoT buff applying to ALL DoT, not only a skill line.

Straight and Simple.15% to all DoT. No restrictions. Period.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rapid_Rot

Urzigurumash

LightYagami wrote: »

This is the REAL DoT buff applying to ALL DoT, not only a skill line.

Straight and Simple.15% to all DoT. No restrictions. Period.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rapid_Rot

Yes, I was kidding about our passive. It needs reworked to do something interesting and powerful, but I think it could still just do something only relating to class skills. I don't have an issue with StamCro having better DOTs overall. Shocking Siphon isn't as good as Claw or Breath, I don't think.

Urzigurumash

Recapitated wrote: »

Could gain stacks that reduce purge chance as you deal damage of the same type, so say DOT poisons, Poisoned, Burning and whip increase the chance of persistence.

Yeah, exactly, something like a Super Poisoned or Super Burning status.

Edit: besides that 50% bonus to Poisoned and Burning ticks. That's really our DOT passive, however Necros also have their passive Pen, Death Knell, etc.

LightYagami

Urzigurumash wrote: »

LightYagami wrote: »

This is the REAL DoT buff applying to ALL DoT, not only a skill line.

Straight and Simple.15% to all DoT. No restrictions. Period.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Rapid_Rot

Yes, I was kidding about our passive. It needs reworked to do something interesting and powerful, but I think it could still just do something only relating to class skills. I don't have an issue with StamCro having better DOTs overall. Shocking Siphon isn't as good as Claw or Breath, I don't think.

Yep, skill line buffs is different from universal skill type buffs. Developers should at least give DKs slightly better skill line buffs if they have no intention to give the (originally designed) DOT class straight DOT bonus for all skills and all weapons like necromancers.

Developers don't need to give DKs multi-purpose free skills like netch of Wardens, just slightly reduced their cost.

My concern is mainly on the PvP side, especially MagDKs.

I hope developers will do something, at least to make the class slightly more viable in PvP (especially MagDK). Maybe adding a little bit of burst or range, or at least ONE execution skill.

Anyone who plays PvP often will notice that it's very rare to see magdks on death recap. Because the class is far below average so most players just don't use this class, or they just can't kill efficiently. It doesn't mean that Nobody can use the class well, but it's much more difficult to play compare with many other classes.

Data speaks. If ZOS studies classes appear on PvP death recaps, PvP leaderboard performance by classes, etc. they'll know the situation.

I've been a financial analyst for quite a few years, I studied mathematical science at university. Data is usually objective. Developers, please look at your data and review the class imbalance issue in PvP. It's not only personal feelings of players, but hard statistics.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

LightYagami wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

No DOT buff? How about "Increases the damage over time of your Fiery Breath, Searing Strike, and Dragonknight Standard abilities by 33% and the duration by 4 seconds."

I'm kidding. This passive, if it's going to be constrained to class DOTs, should at least do something for the other class DOTs: Eruption, Volatile Armor, etc.

These are buffs to the skill line only, not overall DoT buff.
The REAL dot buff for ALL DoT is given to Necromancers.

All zos would need to do to really standardize DK dps is to rework passive in ardent flame, so that poison and flame dots do more damage the lower a targets health is. Its not the poison whip some people are asking for, but it would give the DK the one thing it has never had, and that is execute damage.

newtinmpls

Ran random Thorne Castle with a DK tank today and the tanking was awesome.

Just sayin'

Drdeath20

newtinmpls wrote: »

Ran random Thorne Castle with a DK tank today and the tanking was awesome.

Just sayin'

Try hardmode on a magdk damage dealer. Its a hoot! For a boss with 21 million health i find it funny just how little he stays still, especially after 60% health. Oh the joyful memories on constantly laying down 5 DoTs every 6 seconds.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

newtinmpls wrote: »

Ran random Thorne Castle with a DK tank today and the tanking was awesome.

Just sayin'

I think tanking is the one role that DK mains are happy with. It does kind suck that your only class tool for tank sustain is ultimate use, but it is like going to full resources, so it is not too bad.

KhajiitLivesMatter

are u talking about pve or pvp atm ?

from the pve perspective i dont know how dk is doing but

in pvp mag dk is still one of the stronger mags its easy to be tanky af while still doing great dmg
and the same with stam dk just dot the enemy up and u win

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Xolog4mer wrote: »

are u talking about pve or pvp atm ?

from the pve perspective i dont know how dk is doing but

in pvp mag dk is still one of the stronger mags its easy to be tanky af while still doing great dmg
and the same with stam dk just dot the enemy up and u win

Pve is where is is struggling, for ever bit of chunky the class has, they lack in dps

LightYagami

newtinmpls wrote: »

Ran random Thorne Castle with a DK tank today and the tanking was awesome.

Just sayin'

Please try PvP as Magdks for a few months and share your observations. Please also see how many magdks you met and how many you see on death recaps compare with other classes.

My magdk is CP 900+, flawless conqueror at VMA. I solo'd many PvE group contents and had no major difficulty in PvE.

PvP is completely different from PvE. Execution, Burst, Mobility, Range are all important and Magdks are weak at all of these.

Magdks can do something good at some situations (for example tight space 1v1), but they're far behind other classes in general.

Occasionally I can still get K:D like 12:2-ish in BG death match, and 1v3 or so in Cyrodiil, but huge effort and luck would be needed.

LightYagami

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

Xolog4mer wrote: »

are u talking about pve or pvp atm ?

from the pve perspective i dont know how dk is doing but

in pvp mag dk is still one of the stronger mags its easy to be tanky af while still doing great dmg
and the same with stam dk just dot the enemy up and u win

Pve is where is is struggling, for ever bit of chunky the class has, they lack in dps

Absolutely. More precisely for magdks, lack of burst and lack of execution.

Taking about tankiness, Wardens and Necromancers are much better than DKs in PvP.

Maggusemm

DK is very strong, taking insane AOE damage potential and damage over time in mind in combination with Elf Bane set.

ke.sardenb14_ESO

Absolutely. More precisely for magdks, lack of burst and lack of execution.

Taking about tankiness, Wardens and Necromancers are much better than DKs in PvP.[/quote]

There is an argument to be made that mag Dk is in a better spot then stam dk, because they have the better spammable and increased sustain elf bane can provide. However, I dont play PvP much and when I do I'm even less likely to to play mag of any kind

stefj68

they are not dead they serve as shadow for the stamplar that is left way behind

LightYagami

ke.sardenb14_ESO wrote: »

There is an argument to be made that mag Dk is in a better spot then stam dk, because they have the better spammable and increased sustain elf bane can provide. However, I dont play PvP much and when I do I'm even less likely to to play mag of any kind

Stamdks are better than mag in PvP....

If you play PvP for a few months, you'll see only very few magdks are still here... I guess less than 5% of people in Cyrodiil I met in PvP are magdks... The population maybe even lower in battlegrounds..
(not solid statistics, but only brief estimation. I hope there would be official class performance statistics.)