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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Proc burst damage is out of control
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montiferus✭✭✭✭✭MurderMostFoul wrote: »like all problems in this game it just comes down to lack of cost/ free damage.
slap an ultimate cost on each proc and it will balance itself since three proc sets will be very expensive to maintain and cost you many ultimates.
Yep, procs offer damage without resource cost, or global cooldown cost. The only cost involved is the weapon set bonus opportunity cost. But when you compare proc set damage to added damage from stat sets, the opportunity cost there is comparatively negligible.
Interesting idea about procs costing ultimate though. Too bad it will never happen.
Hang on, many 'PROC' sets have several drawbacks
1. as you say you are sacrificing other 5 piece bonuses
2. some have percent chance to trigger, which makes them very unpredictable (some sets had this removed which may be a mistake)
3. all of them have a cool down
4. most sets been changed from big proc damage to DOT which can be purged (this is ONLY to appease PVPers)
Instead of continuing to NERF everything to appease PVPer who don't want to change their play style of 'whoever smashes buttons the fastest wins', they should just add minor slayer to 3rd piece bonus on 'worst' PROC sets, that way these sets will be better for PVE but will be less attractive for PVP. Everyone Happy. BTW I've been doing lots of BG last few weeks and the most annoying thing is 3-4-4 and people not know how to do the objectives, way more than proc sets.
Proc sets like the ones being discussed in this thread will never be used in end game PVE. Their sole existence is for bad players to be hard carried by free damage in no-cp PVP.
In end game PVE the DPS they contribute is trivial compared to a set that benefits from actual skill.
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AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.Edited by AyaDark on October 14, 2020 8:31AM2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Yes people have said things like venomous and calaurion are made worse by malacath. Which we all know isn't possible. I imagine these people are just regurgitating other people's nonsense or combining it...
The rest is not nonsense though... So many ridiculous proc sets do synergise with malacath and allow the user to tank up and have high damage. Sheer venom, syvarria scales, crimson to name a few...
It is not one set on its own, it is the stacking of multiple proc sets that all trigger in one GCD. Malacath should also not work with them as a player can build tanky and have more damage than a stat based build.
Anyone believing that this meta is enjoyable, competitive or closes the skill gap are speaking under 3 different possible motivations imo.
1. They are finally able to kill players(they aren't their armor is)
2. They are ignorant on the actual implications of the current meta.
3. They are a nightblade😂
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Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »The majority of the pvp playerbase spoke up last time there was a proccmeta, zos listened then, so I dont for the life of me understand how they could circle right back to square one again..only worse then last time. The proccmeta is boring, toxic and devoid of any feeling of accomplishment.
to me, this proves that they just do it on random. i cant really say they listen to cries for nerfing or buffing stuff. like there is a dart in the office and do whatever it lands on it.
i would be okay with these sets, they could be fun if they didnt nerf all the stuff back then for balance and whatnot.
I'm pretty sure they do it so you have to buy the new chapter. Most people right now are running greymoor sets, which means they have to either buy the BoE sets or buy the dlc for the BoP sets. Summerset had sload's, Elsweyr had NMA and now we have all these proc sets. The question is whether at this point they think they got enough people to buy the new content and can nerf the new sets. The markarth sets probably won't be nerfed until enough people buy it via crown store (those without eso+).
This is often said about ESO and its expansions, that the reason things are so poorly tuned and overpowered at release and nerfed shortly thereafter is specifically to sell expansions. While it may look like that, I question if any player legitimately does that. And would said player be stupid enough to fall for the same buff/nerf from one expansion to the next?
And if so, why is it always the stamina sets and never a worthwhile mag set in these releases?
Would a player use the best sets for at least 6 months before it's nerfed and something else becomes BiS? Yes they would.
Agreed. For 3/4 months they will enjoy themselves ingame while others will spend that time complaining in the forums until the next set of nerfs/buffs.
It's a cycle that has repeatedly played out in ESO as already pointed out. Wouldn't necessarily classify them as stupid for time/money spent enjoyed.
Joy Division is right, there's not caring and not bothering to bang your head against the wall hoping for a new result. Been there done that. Procs aren't going anywhere until time to sell a new piece of DLC.
Hey, im making a killing on farming heavy/light Syvarra pieces.
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.0 -
d3adpain✭✭✭i will leave that here (not my video)
https://youtu.be/V4xGsFSdKpA
with those proc sets there's also:
venomous smite,poisonous serpent,winterborn,morkuldin,overwhelming surge
and the new vateshran destro which will be like second zaan, i probably forgot one or two proc sets
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam
we already see 40k hp tanks that can kill people on live cause of itEdited by d3adpain on October 14, 2020 10:22AM0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭i will leave that here (not my video)https://youtu.be/V4xGsFSdKpA
with those proc sets there's also:
venomous smite,poisonous serpent,winterborn,morkuldin,overwhelming surge
and the new vateshran destro which will be like second zaan, i probably forgot one or two proc sets
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam
we already see 40k hp tanks that can kill people on live cause of it
Wouldn't say that proc sets are the reason why 40k hp stamden/stamcro is able to kill people to be honest, it's more like they have an overpowered toolkit. Both sides (proc builds and extreme stat builds) can be pretty broken on the right classes and both needs to get adjusted.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.0 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.
Good player is:
Monster set + Full set + Full set \+ arena weapon.
2+5+5+2.
How do you pur malacath here ? No weapons? Ok.
You lose 2 k dot dps from it as example.
All sets hits like 2500*3 +25% = 9375.
With out malacath 2500*3 + 2000 = 9500.
And if all go malacath you need not use impenetraible = more stats and ?
Where is a problem even if you can proc that sets ?
Just another option. Not a big deal
And 2 proc sets with 2 k dps toolteap are negated by 1 healing set if you have good def. So where is a problem ?
Problem really is, when it is 20 venomous smites on you. It burn like hell, but why the same effects stuck ? Not just hardcoded as Azurblight 1 per target as example ?
1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clfi6k7LifY
@FrankonPC also made this excellent video showcasing his amazing proc build.
This is satirical for anyone unfamiliar with Isth3reno1else...
He is defeating people using only light attack and poison inject.
Great meta! It really feels like an MMO
If nothing changes the next skill audit will simply be to delete them...
1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.
Good player is:
Monster set + Full set + Full set \+ arena weapon.
2+5+5+2.
How do you pur malacath here ? No weapons? Ok.
You lose 2 k dot dps from it as example.
All sets hits like 2500*3 +25% = 9375.
With out malacath 2500*3 + 2000 = 9500.
And if all go malacath you need not use impenetraible = more stats and ?
Where is a problem even if you can proc that sets ?
Just another option. Not a big deal
And 2 proc sets with 2 k dps toolteap are negated by 1 healing set if you have good def. So where is a problem ?
Problem really is, when it is 20 venomous smites on you. It burn like hell, but why the same effects stuck ? Not just hardcoded as Azurblight 1 per target as example ?
For stamina there is no point in running arena weapons because there aren't any good ones, next patch this will change but currently the only set that could be considered running is master Dw or master s&b and those only on certain classes and specs.
Mag can run brp destro and ends up with 3 proc sets again.
The numbers you use to prove malacath are better are false because they assume procs deal the same damage which they don't do while also taking all the extra damage out of the equation you get from malacath.
People not running malacath lose loads of damage from their regular skills while people running 3-4 procs without malacath deal a lot less damage.0 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.
Good player is:
Monster set + Full set + Full set \+ arena weapon.
2+5+5+2.
How do you pur malacath here ? No weapons? Ok.
You lose 2 k dot dps from it as example.
All sets hits like 2500*3 +25% = 9375.
With out malacath 2500*3 + 2000 = 9500.
And if all go malacath you need not use impenetraible = more stats and ?
Where is a problem even if you can proc that sets ?
Just another option. Not a big deal
And 2 proc sets with 2 k dps toolteap are negated by 1 healing set if you have good def. So where is a problem ?
Problem really is, when it is 20 venomous smites on you. It burn like hell, but why the same effects stuck ? Not just hardcoded as Azurblight 1 per target as example ?
For stamina there is no point in running arena weapons because there aren't any good ones, next patch this will change but currently the only set that could be considered running is master Dw or master s&b and those only on certain classes and specs.
Mag can run brp destro and ends up with 3 proc sets again.
The numbers you use to prove malacath are better are false because they assume procs deal the same damage which they don't do while also taking all the extra damage out of the equation you get from malacath.
People not running malacath lose loads of damage from their regular skills while people running 3-4 procs without malacath deal a lot less damage.
Not true. It’s about a split when you get a decent crit burst on a normal player. But yes, it does buff procs too...Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.
Good player is:
Monster set + Full set + Full set \+ arena weapon.
2+5+5+2.
How do you pur malacath here ? No weapons? Ok.
You lose 2 k dot dps from it as example.
All sets hits like 2500*3 +25% = 9375.
With out malacath 2500*3 + 2000 = 9500.
And if all go malacath you need not use impenetraible = more stats and ?
Where is a problem even if you can proc that sets ?
Just another option. Not a big deal
And 2 proc sets with 2 k dps toolteap are negated by 1 healing set if you have good def. So where is a problem ?
Problem really is, when it is 20 venomous smites on you. It burn like hell, but why the same effects stuck ? Not just hardcoded as Azurblight 1 per target as example ?
For stamina there is no point in running arena weapons because there aren't any good ones, next patch this will change but currently the only set that could be considered running is master Dw or master s&b and those only on certain classes and specs.
Mag can run brp destro and ends up with 3 proc sets again.
The numbers you use to prove malacath are better are false because they assume procs deal the same damage which they don't do while also taking all the extra damage out of the equation you get from malacath.
People not running malacath lose loads of damage from their regular skills while people running 3-4 procs without malacath deal a lot less damage.
WHAT ????
So you say, that bow, that can do 3 k dps per second dot, 500 + WPD, 2 k dps mass AOE dps, + 3 k dps to spammable + DOT, is not such a big deal ? Or 1600 wpd to dots ?
What is better ? I want to use one !
I even may be lose monster set, but to lose arena weapon ??? Very bad choise.Edited by AyaDark on October 14, 2020 11:22AM1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some players write: Venomous smite is overpovered andmalacath make it even more strong
It isnot true, becouse you lose1 set.
But after i think about it more.
How the hell will you proc set, that proc on crit if you can not make crits ???
How the hell do it empower it ?
That is all this topic is about. The same nonsense.
Venomous smite is already strong even without being able to be buffed by malacath, it still deals comparable damage to some malacath boosted procs.
It's one of the only sets that's an issue regardless if malacath exists or not.
Also you don't lose a set when running malacath it's still possible with no meaningful drawback to run a full monster set and 2 full 5pc procs like syvarras and sheer venom or any other combinations of sets that don't require crits to proc.
Good player is:
Monster set + Full set + Full set \+ arena weapon.
2+5+5+2.
How do you pur malacath here ? No weapons? Ok.
You lose 2 k dot dps from it as example.
All sets hits like 2500*3 +25% = 9375.
With out malacath 2500*3 + 2000 = 9500.
And if all go malacath you need not use impenetraible = more stats and ?
Where is a problem even if you can proc that sets ?
Just another option. Not a big deal
And 2 proc sets with 2 k dps toolteap are negated by 1 healing set if you have good def. So where is a problem ?
Problem really is, when it is 20 venomous smites on you. It burn like hell, but why the same effects stuck ? Not just hardcoded as Azurblight 1 per target as example ?
For stamina there is no point in running arena weapons because there aren't any good ones, next patch this will change but currently the only set that could be considered running is master Dw or master s&b and those only on certain classes and specs.
Mag can run brp destro and ends up with 3 proc sets again.
The numbers you use to prove malacath are better are false because they assume procs deal the same damage which they don't do while also taking all the extra damage out of the equation you get from malacath.
People not running malacath lose loads of damage from their regular skills while people running 3-4 procs without malacath deal a lot less damage.
WHAT ????
So you say, that bow, that can do 3 k dps per second dot, 500 + WPD, 2 k dps mass AOE dps, + 3 k dps to spammable + DOT, is not such a big deal ? Or 1600 wpd to dots ?
What is better ? I want to use one !
I even may be lose monster set, but to lose arena weapon ??? Very bad choise.
I actually can't comprehend what you're trying to tell me here.
Master's bow adds a mere 330 weapon damage to one target and that is less damage than major fracture or minor vulnerability --> no point using it
Maelstrom bow isn't useable in PvP at all
Asylum bow adds some damage but the benefit is negligible compared to proc damage
Brp bow adds a dot which is the only thing to consider but still doesn't compete with other procs as the duration is too short if you're not at max range and you need high damage in order to get a meaningful dot which requires you to stack stats which means you'll lose out on proc damage ---> not worth it
1 -
Atherakhia✭✭✭✭BRP DW and Maelstrom 2h are quite common. Until this set, master Bow was used on the majority of builds. Stam are not hurting for sets. They just have even more OP stuff to choose from now.0
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BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »BRP DW and Maelstrom 2h are quite common. Until this set, master Bow was used on the majority of builds. Stam are not hurting for sets. They just have even more OP stuff to choose from now.
Haven't seen brp Dw in ages but you're right about vMA 2h that one is indeed common especially when paired with unleashed0 -
Atherakhia✭✭✭✭Atherakhia wrote: »BRP DW and Maelstrom 2h are quite common. Until this set, master Bow was used on the majority of builds. Stam are not hurting for sets. They just have even more OP stuff to choose from now.
Haven't seen brp Dw in ages but you're right about vMA 2h that one is indeed common especially when paired with unleashed
Sorry you're right, I didn't mean BRP. I meant DSA DW. Nearly everyone who uses DW is using that. Especially those who run 2h/dw.0 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭I'll assume you are explaining the super basic info about difference between PVP/PVE to noobs who might read this. There is an overarching problem that is completely unfixable. PVPers are constantly complaining about 'Balance' but the more classes/races/sets/skills are 'balanced' for PVP the more all that stuff makes PVE (and PVP actually) BORING. Part of the fun of PVE (and should be the same for PVP) is having different class/race/gear/etc. which let's you SPECIALIZE in different stuff and try different ways of playing.
And I notice all the complaints have the same root cause, PVPer who got used to killing 1vX with cheesy combos and stat/dmg stacking. But every time their innocent victims begin to get smart and use shielding, healing, tankiness, proc sets, coordinated groups, you get the same people complaining profusely "NERF EVERYTHING, I want to be able to kill 10 people without thinking so I can tell everyone how SKILLED I am."
I just hope that before they make every class/race/skill IDENTICAL to achieve 'Balance' for PVP, instead they decide to allow only limited race/class/certain sets in PVP. Like going into PVP you had 2 choices Mag/breton/templar/NMA lt/Crfty/fire/rest staff OR Stam/rdgrd/DK/NMA med/draug/2hnd/bow. But somehow even with that I think people would still whine that Mag or Stam was OP. Then they can focus on making PVE stuff cool and different.
This guy is dead on. 1vX is indicative of a systemic issue. I enjoy the skill ceiling - but the game shouldn't allow the super narrow meta (combined with high skill) to decimate 5-10 people over a period of time because the one (1) person is running max stats and CP is compounding the issue (free tankiness, sustain, etc). Sure skill should let you kill 1, 2 or maybe even 3 people. - but those people who are not as sweaty as us shouldn't just be food. If we get caught by a group of 4+ - then we should die, period. Not just infinitely tank around while comboing single targets.
We need more things to be viable and good than just stat stacking NMA/Alfiq/Necro/Brighthroat/etc... One of the biggest weaknesses of this game is how it advertises itself as an endlessly rich customization end-game but it is actually a super narrow meta. You have have to have different ways to play, and they have to viable and competitive. You have to have real choices in gear, where you can say, for example: "I'm gonnna equip this proc set(s) and malacath so now I can totally blow someone up" but if I lose the initiative, my heals/mitigation/max pool is so crap that I'm screwed.
On a side note, do you know that a mag or stadk will parse higher (in pvp) with pure stats than a necro running 2 (or even 3) proc sets and malacath even with their rapid rot passive? I'm talking super short 15-30 second parse too. Proc sets for the most part have more counterplay options than just eating that Fossilize and undodgeable/unblockable dots that are also applying DD pressure.
This game is a long way from having a truly competitive meta. Anything that expands it, and reduces the length of end-game pvp fights is welcome. CP rework needs to be really pushed up and support truly meaningful choices (e.g. You dont get to be tanky if you specc for damage. You dont get to do good DoT dmg and good DD dmg.)
The problem with this attitude that you should lose 1v2 or 1v3 most times, or 1v4 every time, is that the mechanics in ESO just don't allow for this to happen. ESO is quite different from most other MMOs in that you have very good self heals and mitigation while suffering very few penalties for it. There are a lot of skills or mechanics you would never see in any other game, such as ranged dps matching melee, mobility skills like streak existing without cooldowns, repeatedly healing yourself to full in a few gcd's, etc. In every other game you sacrifice damage for mitigation, you sacrifice damage for range, you sacrifice mitigation for high damage, or range for high damage, etc etc.
This probably won't ever change. The basic mechanics of how the game works, how classes are built, how easily you can hybridize, those things aren't going away in ESO unless there is a major overhaul to self healing, block, roll dodge, major reductions in ranged damage, etc. I think most players like the game how it is, for the most part. There definitely needs to be some balance decisions in the opposite direction, such as reigning in ranged damage/mobility/mitigation (not all three at once, but something has to give) since they sacrifice just about nothing for it, and even in some cases melee mobility or abilities that allow you to dictate the terms of a fight (streak, shadow image, cloak, etc) but overall the ability to hybridize your build into a lot of different things is what makes ESO, ESO.
tbh i like the weird offensive while defensive type of gameplay that ESO has. but if they gonna nerf sth meantime giving excuses of any other mmo is bad.
like this build is too powerful because they shouldnt do (give generic excuse from a traditional mmo) but the rest of the builds live on ( till another nerf wave).
being tanky and being able to do damage should still be in game but should be hard to do. sth like warriors fury, a heavy only set that gives ( or gave lol) weapon damage. tbh it should have been 50 stacks and 15/20 wd each stack so they really need to stay in a looooong fight to get big damage. if someone attacked them and did their lets say 5 skill combo and couldnt kill, they wouldnt die to that tank cuz the tank would have had 100 wd which doesnt do much.
today we have instant high damage while being tanky which is bs while a lot of other specs got nerfed1 -
AyaDark✭✭✭✭✭Just one thing.
Mechanikal acuty was in game from a looong long time. If you had good critical damage, you can do * 50 +% damage on small window.
And it did not make you less tanky.
But why do i care, if some people say that bow from brp is weak with short dot compared to other sets. Up to 12 seconds no call down.
[snip]
It allis just
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on October 14, 2020 3:04PM1
