New AOE Cool Downs - Your thoughts?

ecru

ManDraKE wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

In another thread, someone said that the lag was back the moment a ball group came on yesterday. i.e. Before todays new test.

Which begs the question, if that ball group caused the same amount of lag when they couldn't cast AOEs as frequently, what is causing the lag?

here is your answer



this is not affected by the current AoE Testing

have to admit, i'd be pretty excited about a nerf to regen stacking, since it makes outputting gigantic heals on a large group braindead easy and gives you an advantage that's better than purely numbers in a large group. they nerfed vigor so you couldn't put a big heal other people who were in direct proximity to you, but regen was apparently just fine i guess?

zaria

Rungar wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

Organized group would fix this by running all classes and have all effect up all the time.
It would hit pugs way way harder as they are not organized so it will be an demand for only one dot of each type on you.
Yes organized will still win but you might be able to run away.

Organized always win, this is already seen in above shot, more back bar resto staff and you can spam rapid regen to cover more than 4 players in group.
Causals wonder why AOE don't work.

Rungar

your assuming that they would treat dmg the same as healing which i dont think would be the case. After all healing springs doesnt stack. I thought they did this one at the same time but i guess not.

ecru

zaria wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

Organized group would fix this by running all classes and have all effect up all the time.
It would hit pugs way way harder as they are not organized so it will be an demand for only one dot of each type on you.
Yes organized will still win but you might be able to run away.

Organized always win, this is already seen in above shot, more back bar resto staff and you can spam rapid regen to cover more than 4 players in group.
Causals wonder why AOE don't work.

cross healing being braindead easy helps organized groups just as much as disorganized groups because it allows those organized groups to focus on everything besides healing. healing should require some effort, just hitting a button over and over again and putting a big hot on you entire raid is too generous, especially when that hot stacks. imagine the outcry if stam could just cast vigor and put it on a second person with every cast over and over and over again at range, lol. there should obviously be an advantage to grouping, but the way that cross healing works with regen is simply too generous.

SidraWillowsky

iiRenity wrote: »

Are they testing this on the main server? It seems to me like they should test on, you know, the test server.

I don't know what the main reason is that people don't have the PTS, but I know one thing that's keeping some people that I know away is the fact that the PTS is huge- you need to download what amounts to a second copy of the game. I know more than a few people who don't have that kind of space to allocate on their drives.

Maybe a Cyro-only test server where people get rewards on their live accounts for helping out with testing?

ecru

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

iiRenity wrote: »

Are they testing this on the main server? It seems to me like they should test on, you know, the test server.

I don't know what the main reason is that people don't have the PTS, but I know one thing that's keeping some people that I know away is the fact that the PTS is huge- you need to download what amounts to a second copy of the game. I know more than a few people who don't have that kind of space to allocate on their drives.

Maybe a Cyro-only test server where people get rewards on their live accounts for helping out with testing?

this has pretty much never worked in any game as it's impossible to come up with a reward that appeals to everyone that will convince enough people to download PTS and play for enough time to gather valuable data. large scale tests have to be done on live servers because no one ever shows up on PTS, and ESO won't be the exception.

Crash427

ecru wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

Organized group would fix this by running all classes and have all effect up all the time.
It would hit pugs way way harder as they are not organized so it will be an demand for only one dot of each type on you.
Yes organized will still win but you might be able to run away.

Organized always win, this is already seen in above shot, more back bar resto staff and you can spam rapid regen to cover more than 4 players in group.
Causals wonder why AOE don't work.

cross healing being braindead easy helps organized groups just as much as disorganized groups because it allows those organized groups to focus on everything besides healing. healing should require some effort, just hitting a button over and over again and putting a big hot on you entire raid is too generous, especially when that hot stacks. imagine the outcry if stam could just cast vigor and put it on a second person with every cast over and over and over again at range, lol. there should obviously be an advantage to grouping, but the way that cross healing works with regen is simply too generous.

Haven't tested it since back in Feb when our group switched to full mag comp but back then you could stack vigors. We could put 6 people on a ram spamming vigor and be basically unkillable by oils. This was a common tactic for stam based ballgroups for a while before mutagen became radiating regen

SidraWillowsky

ecru wrote: »

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

iiRenity wrote: »

Are they testing this on the main server? It seems to me like they should test on, you know, the test server.

I don't know what the main reason is that people don't have the PTS, but I know one thing that's keeping some people that I know away is the fact that the PTS is huge- you need to download what amounts to a second copy of the game. I know more than a few people who don't have that kind of space to allocate on their drives.

Maybe a Cyro-only test server where people get rewards on their live accounts for helping out with testing?

this has pretty much never worked in any game as it's impossible to come up with a reward that appeals to everyone that will convince enough people to download PTS and play for enough time to gather valuable data. large scale tests have to be done on live servers because no one ever shows up on PTS, and ESO won't be the exception.

Yeah, I figured I was reaching there. Hope springs eternal

Dunno how many people even *use* the PTS, and everyone that I know who uses the PTS uses it solely for testing builds on target dummies.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

So how is a Mageblade supposed to heal?

Every ability on the Resto-Staff is an AOE.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

Hmmm
...
Too early to draw conclusions but it's interesting that players might have been right all along, blaming ball groups for lag.

If that playstyle is indeed the source of bad performance, how do you think ZOS should deal with ball groups on a technical level of game mechanics?

Simple solution, for every group member AP gain is halved for everyone in said group.

1600 AP > 800 AP > 400 AP > 200 AP > 100 AP > 50 AP > 25 AP > 12 AP > 6 AP > 3 AP > 1 AP > 0 AP

With too many group members AP gain would be almost non-existence and with 12 people or more nobody would gain AP, most groups would drop to only 2 or 3 people less AP gain becomes impossible thus eliminating ball groups.

Another solution would be to do this with AOE damage and reduce it for each group member or better yet they can just implement Friendly Fire to the game, if you try to spam an AOE in group you can damage and kill your own allies.

Heimdarm

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

Hmmm
...
Too early to draw conclusions but it's interesting that players might have been right all along, blaming ball groups for lag.

If that playstyle is indeed the source of bad performance, how do you think ZOS should deal with ball groups on a technical level of game mechanics?

Simple solution, for every group member AP gain is halved for everyone in said group.

1600 AP > 800 AP > 400 AP > 200 AP > 100 AP > 50 AP > 25 AP > 12 AP > 6 AP > 3 AP > 1 AP > 0 AP

With too many group members AP gain would be almost non-existence and with 12 people or more nobody would gain AP, most groups would drop to only 2 or 3 people less AP gain becomes impossible thus eliminating ball groups.

Another solution would be to do this with AOE damage and reduce it for each group member or better yet they can just implement Friendly Fire to the game, if you try to spam an AOE in group you can damage and kill your own allies.

No. Do not punish group play in an MMO. Invest into servers or create single player game. This whole test is ridicoulos and a shame.

TequilaFire

I bet lag would decrease just as much if you eliminated all the solo players.
What a game, only works without players. lmao

SpacemanSpiff1

week 2 is going on now. i just left no-cp cyro because most abilities weren't going off (buffs and single target attacks). displayed ping wasnt even that high.

really doubting aoes are the source of lag.

Edit: I'll also add that there were frequent desyncs. Enemy attack animations weren't showing (dizzying swing, executioner, snipe, poison injection were common offenders), and my health would instantly drop after multiple attacks from a single enemy (that weren't showing).

Raevin

The only outcome of these test is to further punish players for playing PvP.
That's it.
The server lag won't get better until they IMPROVE THE SERVERS. Absolutely every single issue that was there before is still going strong and trying to play in Cyrodiil during prime time is just torture even more now than before.

Don't get why ZOS is insisting on implementing these tests, if the game can't handle PvP remove it and be done with it because it's getting ridiculous.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Raevin wrote: »

The only outcome of these test is to further punish players for playing PvP.
That's it.
The server lag won't get better until they IMPROVE THE SERVERS. Absolutely every single issue that was there before is still going strong and trying to play in Cyrodiil during prime time is just torture even more now than before.

Don't get why ZOS is insisting on implementing these tests, if the game can't handle PvP remove it and be done with it because it's getting ridiculous.

Yep I've seen many of you comment on this and mention the server quality/capacity.
I realise the economic implications it would cause and I could only imagine they don't qualify us as enough to go forward with that investment..Let's just hope this mind set won't influence the quality of the entirety of the game in the future.