New AOE Cool Downs - Your thoughts?

red_emu

esotoon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

In another thread, someone said that the lag was back the moment a ball group came on yesterday. i.e. Before todays new test.

Which begs the question, if that ball group caused the same amount of lag when they couldn't cast AOEs as frequently, what is causing the lag?

My thoughts exactly. With lack of AOE spamming, ball groups still caused the server to fry. So what is there in ball group game play that could be causing it? What's so different between 20 players coordinated casing lag and 100 player ungrouped not causing it? Could it be some bug in the grouping mechanic itself? In any case, it seems we're one step closer to finding the cause. Let's hope ZOS does actually look into this instead of pouring over excel sheets.

TequilaFire

Wanna bet the problem turns out to be bad grouping code?

Rungar

each class in eso has an innate group buff. So while grouped that innate buff is constantly being refreshed for all classes at all times...

Banana

Alot of the time ya please a key and nothing happens. I just see this as changing some of those skills so it's a feature now.

barney2525

whatever happened to testing on the Test server?

just curious

esotoon

Rungar wrote: »

each class in eso has an innate group buff. So while grouped that innate buff is constantly being refreshed for all classes at all times...

But that’s the same whether you are a pug group or a ball group, yet it’s ball groups that are said to cause lag, not pug/less organised groups.

esotoon

barney2525 wrote: »

whatever happened to testing on the Test server?

just curious

ZOS can’t get enough players on there to stress the servers and recreate the conditions of the live server.

Some might argue that if they hadn’t treated players with such disdain over the years when it comes to testing things (ignoring issues found, ignoring better suggestions, letting heavily reported bugs go live, etc.) that thye still would be able to get those kinds of numbers, but that’s an argument for a different thread.

Pauwer

I play ps4 so i can't test anything. But guys, will my stamblade be great again after the change? That's all i really care about in the game just yesterday i tried to battle a aoe skills spamming group by trying to isolate one player at a time, but it didn't go so well. I could get few but then always was run over by a sea of red circels. Would this now be do-able? If so, thumbs up on all hands and feet, yay.

I also like playing magden and magdk and so on and do also the aoe spamming thing, but i will always be stamblade first.

Edit: just thougt to add: my nb ultis did not work at all near the group, i suspect the cast times have something to do with this. The animation happens, but the skill itself does not work. Could you add this cast time to aoe skills also? Hehe.

Thornen

barney2525 wrote: »

whatever happened to testing on the Test server?

just curious

Pretty much every bug I have ever reported on the test server is still in game, so it is literally just there for the sweaty's to find the most broken op sets for the next patch cycle .

Heimdarm

TineaCruris wrote: »

Two years ago when things worked pretty decent, there were not any AOE cooldowns.

This radically changes the game, and it didn't seem to lower ping noticeably either. This radically changes how every single class has to arrange their bars and the skills they will be using.

Exactly.

For me the the performance dropped a lot and skills stopped to be working even I pressed the keys after ZOS edited the cast times of some skills maybe about 1,5 years ago. They made unneeded multiple changes to existing stuff and they totally broke something. Now they have no idea how to fix things and try to implement this. If they are unable to develope the software then they should invest into hardware and double or triple server hardware. But that costs money, so they chose the hard way and slowly drown their own game.

Cinbri

Tried new individual cooldowns and after used charge on first target got stacked in it till death. Like... zero perfomance improvenet.

Heimdarm

red_emu wrote: »

If that playstyle is indeed the source of bad performance, how do you think ZOS should deal with ball groups on a technical level of game mechanics?

I played cyro long ago as a solo ganker, in small groups and in zerg as well. I enjoyed all, including zerg fights. This is a MMORPG, massivley multiplayer game, there is nothing bad that dozens of players group up and fight together. If someone don't like it, then get out of the way of the zerg and play in solo or small groups. There is a possibility for it in cyro, imp city and BGs.

What ZOS should do is improve their *** hardware... They broke their own game by continously editing and tweaking already finished stuff. They had damn six years to balance classes and skill lines, and they still keep changing things... Balance should be achieved in the first 1 or max 2 years and they should focusing adding new things and not on breaking the already implemented skills and classes.

The incompetence around this game can be compared to the release of F76 and the state of that game. Different developers, same company, and same quality...

red_emu

Heimdarm wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

If that playstyle is indeed the source of bad performance, how do you think ZOS should deal with ball groups on a technical level of game mechanics?

I played cyro long ago as a solo ganker, in small groups and in zerg as well. I enjoyed all, including zerg fights. This is a MMORPG, massivley multiplayer game, there is nothing bad that dozens of players group up and fight together. If someone don't like it, then get out of the way of the zerg and play in solo or small groups. There is a possibility for it in cyro, imp city and BGs.

What ZOS should do is improve their *** hardware... They broke their own game by

I'm not saying ZOS should make this play style impossible. Ball groups and voice comms give an enormous advantage over other players but this tactic has been in the game for a long time and it is a preferred style for some people.

What I'm trying to say is that if the ball groups cause lag, ZOS should look at how to make them not cause it. It's pretty clear now, that AOEs are not the root cause. I, like many others do get annoyed with ball groups, not because they are good and hard to kill but because it places players on uneven footing. When the lag is not so bad, it's fun fighting them, trying to predict their next move, setting up an ambush etc. And it's fun until the server lags and your abilities do not go off. Only 3 out of 10 skills going off in one second is still stronger than 0 out of 1 skill.

Im sure it is frustrating for ball groups that fight twice or three times their number. A lag on their abilities firing can cause a group to wipe or to not clear out enemies as intended.

On the other hand, we all know, that if ZOS decides to nerf/change something in the game's mechanics to make ball group game play unattractive and inefficient it is also going to hit solo players. Let's say the GC of 3 seconds will be their preferred method. A group of players coordinating over voice comms can learn to overcome this, put rules in place when and who fires off certain abilities for maximum effectiveness. But if you put that group against a solo player who's standing there, locked out of all his skills and unable to call for help over the mic, the gap of fair play only widens.

It will be very interesting to see what they come up with, as we all know, there is no budget or shareholder's permission to invest in hardware. I have a feeling they have no choice but to try and fix the problem software side, as they are employees and that's the task assigned from upstairs.

grimscalrwb17_ESO

I have 18 character, been playing since release. there all leveled with Mostly PVP builds. at this point during the aoe testing, 90 percent of my builds are unplayable. Maybe two toons are semi playable. Im not going to rebuild them all for this test.

Playing from Australia the lag has been getting worse and worse over the last year. In alot of casses the only way to lay damage on someone is via AOE. Single target stuff misses alot, and has gotten way way worse sine the game started evaluating the to hit and line of sight stuff server side. Bar change often wont happen and trying to use a ultimate, even AOE untimates wont go off all the time. its very frustrating

I remember being able to play this game in pvp with hundreds of player involved and not be unplayable. now it its freez frame, every one stops moving, unable to connect to server, ect.....
I test my connecting to the internet and its fine. all of this is only in pvp. every so called inprovment to the game connection carried out by zoz has just made the game worse to play.

TequilaFire

This blaming "ball" groups is getting ridiculous people that spew this call every group a "ball" group.

Sgrug

Again they are horrible and the antithesis of the very core elements of this game's philosophy as stated since alpha. This game was about fast responsive mechanics and counter play. A quicker pace with the feel of real time.

Now it feels like a poorly adapted knock off of EQ or Wow as far as game-play in PvP goes. This game was not designed to play like this and it shows in the most painful ways.

Honestly if this is where this game is going I would rather go back and play EQ2 or one of the new releases coming out that are actually built for game-play with cool downs and standard full bar skill rotations.

TequilaFire

red_emu wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

This blaming "ball" groups is getting ridiculous people that spew this call every group a "ball" group.

[Quoted post was removed]

Solo Rambos farming a resource tower causing large amounts of unwise players to engage them cause just as much lag.
See any play style can be blamed, when in reality it is the game code and infrastructure that is the cause.
But that doesn't suit those that don't like a certain play style and have an agenda to have the game changed to what they prefer.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Well call it what you want guys, there's no proper term.

I personally see it as a group of guild mates who have dedicated leader and have all managed to work together.
I've done this play style before, but for not very long as it is kind of tedious, repetitive and limiting in what you can do by yourself (Restoration staves on the back bar...specialized gear for AOE/Synchronised damaged..you end up being quite weak)

FPS and Ping are effected by the proximity of these groups, it's true, but also what you forget is that these groups are often in very crowded areas and others are the problem too. Like all people some of these group leaders can be prone to being '***' and set a bad example on how 'organised groups' should be played. 15 man bombs on one guy isn't a win..it's just being an angry teenager

It's like traffic jams -> People swear and hit the steering wheel only not to realise...they are the jam

PS : I haven't stepped back into Cyro since the tests.

ManDraKE

esotoon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

In another thread, someone said that the lag was back the moment a ball group came on yesterday. i.e. Before todays new test.

Which begs the question, if that ball group caused the same amount of lag when they couldn't cast AOEs as frequently, what is causing the lag?

here is your answer



this is not affected by the current AoE Testing

TequilaFire

It is true that solo players and pugs tend to follow around known organized groups because they know there will be action around the organized group. So what you get is an alliance zerg causing maximum lag in the area.

iiRenity

Are they testing this on the main server? It seems to me like they should test on, you know, the test server.

Heimdarm

iiRenity wrote: »

Are they testing this on the main server? It seems to me like they should test on, you know, the test server.

At this point everything is broken from the group finder to basic skill casting, bugs are now game features. The test server should be closed and the money they gain from it should be put on the live game server infrastructure.

Rungar

ManDraKE wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

So after the first week with practically zero ball groups, now they are back and so is the awful lag.

The first day of the 1st test, lag was bad as there was many ball groups, then it got better as they stopped playing around Wednesday.

Today ball groups are back again testing stuff and lag is unbearable. We'll see if they stop playing later in the week and how it effects lag spikes.

In another thread, someone said that the lag was back the moment a ball group came on yesterday. i.e. Before todays new test.

Which begs the question, if that ball group caused the same amount of lag when they couldn't cast AOEs as frequently, what is causing the lag?

here is your answer



this is not affected by the current AoE Testing

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

ManDraKE

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Rungar

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

TequilaFire

That an addon? Because doesn't show that way on PS4.
And yes I have buffs from others displayed.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Rungar wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

CC's, stuns...fear...go for the back end buffers -> it's pretty simple -> split in all directions when charged or roll through them with immune potion. That's how to fight a organised group of 12 +. It's going to be a lot of flanking and spanking unless you have a similar setup where both groups will fake push and see who uses ultimate bomb and fails to hit.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

ManDraKE wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

hows that even possible? isnt a second cast supposed to refresh the timer regardless of who casted it?

it refresh if it the same caster, if you have multiple people casting rapid regen for example, it stacks. And that screenshot is from a "medium" size group of 12 man, a 24 man group can easily have 10-15 rapidregen on EACH player. This is why the game becomes unplayable as soon a ballgroup shows up.

Good investigative work.

Seems simple enough to only allow one regen per person. I thought that was already the case. No wonder they are so hard to kill.

CC's, stuns...fear...go for the back end buffers -> it's pretty simple -> split in all directions when charged or roll through them with immune potion. That's how to fight a organised group of 12 +. It's going to be a lot of flanking and spanking unless you have a similar setup where both groups will fake push and see who uses ultimate bomb and fails to hit.

PS : let's keep the focus on the 'game's problem' -> People play as they want as long as the parameters allow it

ManDraKE

TequilaFire wrote: »

That an addon? Because doesn't show that way on PS4.
And yes I have buffs from others displayed.

yes, is an addon.

Earthewen

Okay ... well into the second testing and I've not seen ANYTHING change for disconnects or lag.

Therefore ...

No ... Just no.