Please give us back Rapid Maneuver!

SilverBride

Kwoung wrote: »

I can't believe people are still complaining about this.

Not many are. Just enough to keep bumping this thread.

I don't know if they think this will draw the attention of the developers and convince them to drop the requirements, but that is highly unlikely in light of how few players are even interested any more.

I really wish they would change their focus to earning rapids back rather than hanging on to an unlikely outcome.

Taleof2Cities

SilverBride wrote: »

I really wish they would change their focus to earning rapids back rather than hanging on to an unlikely outcome.

You’re right, @SilverBride.

I wonder how many players skipped the eight (8) weeks of double AP during the Cyrodiil testing?

allhailskippy

Kwoung wrote: »

Everyone in my non-PVP guild earned Rapids back within days of the change

Kwoung wrote: »

I still have 2 alts with no rapids

So.. not everyone then?

Kwoung

allhailskippy wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

Everyone in my non-PVP guild earned Rapids back within days of the change

Kwoung wrote: »

I still have 2 alts with no rapids

So.. not everyone then?

Haha, thats funny, but if you are going to nitpick words get it right. I said everyone, not every toon, also, those toons never had it, so how would they earn it back?

JoeCapricorn

SilverBride wrote: »

I really wish they would change their focus to earning rapids back rather than hanging on to an unlikely outcome.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I wonder how many players skipped the eight (8) weeks of double AP during the Cyrodiil testing?

PVP is not fun for everyone.

Even with a double AP buff, it would still take hours to regain rapids on all of my alts. It was just not something I had the time or emotional willpower to do.

This is the core reason of my strong disagreement with the change - they put it behind a wall of PVP. This inconvenience does not need to exist. They can lower the requirements, or they can swap it with Siege Shield. But for as long as a widely used skill is put behind a wall of an activity not everyone enjoys, will be as long as I will complain about it.

SilverBride

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

This is the core reason of my strong disagreement with the change - they put it behind a wall of PVP.

They didn't move it from another skill line to a PvP skill line, it was always there. The only difference is that it was so easy to unlock that you didn't have to actually PvP to get it before. Now you do.

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

This inconvenience does not need to exist.

Thank you for calling it what it is. An inconvenient, but not impossible, goal.

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

But for as long as a widely used skill is put behind a wall of an activity not everyone enjoys, will be as long as I will complain about it.

There is no way to make every skill, achievement, etc.. attainable by something that everyone enjoys because we all enjoy different things. This skill is no exception.

JoeCapricorn

If they lowered the requirements, it would make the process of earning it back significantly less stressful for those who do not enjoy the activity that is required to earn it back. This is especially important for those who never really went into PVP in the first place and now have to either spend crowns or spend time doing something they have no experience in doing to get a skill back that they had for SIX years.

SilverBride

I don't like what they did to Vampire after 6 years either, and there were several threads up complaining about these changes. All you can do is make your voice heard, and hope for the best. But there comes a time to switch focus from pushing for something that isn't going to happen, to working toward getting your skill back.

You should feel lucky that you can get rapids back, even if you don't like what you have to do to get it. There is nothing I can do about my Vampire skills.

Kwoung

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

If they lowered the requirements, it would make the process of earning it back significantly less stressful for those who do not enjoy the activity that is required to earn it back. This is especially important for those who never really went into PVP in the first place and now have to either spend crowns or spend time doing something they have no experience in doing to get a skill back that they had for SIX years.

You can't buy Rapids with Crowns, so not sure what you mean there, hopefully not someone never training their mount because they had rapids, as thats just kinda dumb.

As for earning Rapids back, simply ask your guildmaster to setup an event for everyone to earn it back. I did that as a guildmaster and now all those folks that were afraid of PVP, had stress from even thinking about Cyrodill, etc... they show up every Sunday to earn more AP, as the draw of free monster helms, shoulders & jewelry, motifs, etc... far outweighed the fear that they learned wasn't even justified. This weekend I got massive thanks from everyone that has been coming, as they all had enough AP to buy the Balorghs shoulders in all 3 weights with AP to spare!

We also do regular PVP, but on Sundays we take everyone out, regardless of level to earn what they need and get the end of campaign rewards to boot (50 transmutes per character anyone?). We even have had some people get rapids back for two characters in a single afternoon. It isn't that scary if you just go out with friends, take the capture 9 resources quest and keep moving. Just watch the map if you are paranoid and don't try to take resources from keeps under siege, or you will be participating in PVP real quick!

warabi

SilverBride wrote: »

allhailskippy wrote: »

You can't say anything about other people commenting on this thread. You're one of the most common names that shows up here.

I can say something about other people hanging on to something that isn't going to happen, and wishing they would accept that.

That's a terrible message. If you think something is wrong, don't bring it up since it'll never change and just shutup.

Kwoung wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

If they lowered the requirements, it would make the process of earning it back significantly less stressful for those who do not enjoy the activity that is required to earn it back. This is especially important for those who never really went into PVP in the first place and now have to either spend crowns or spend time doing something they have no experience in doing to get a skill back that they had for SIX years.

You can't buy Rapids with Crowns, so not sure what you mean there, hopefully not someone never training their mount because they had rapids, as thats just kinda dumb.

As for earning Rapids back, simply ask your guildmaster to setup an event for everyone to earn it back. I did that as a guildmaster and now all those folks that were afraid of PVP, had stress from even thinking about Cyrodill, etc... they show up every Sunday to earn more AP, as the draw of free monster helms, shoulders & jewelry, motifs, etc... far outweighed the fear that they learned wasn't even justified. This weekend I got massive thanks from everyone that has been coming, as they all had enough AP to buy the Balorghs shoulders in all 3 weights with AP to spare!

We also do regular PVP, but on Sundays we take everyone out, regardless of level to earn what they need and get the end of campaign rewards to boot (50 transmutes per character anyone?). We even have had some people get rapids back for two characters in a single afternoon. It isn't that scary if you just go out with friends, take the capture 9 resources quest and keep moving. Just watch the map if you are paranoid and don't try to take resources from keeps under siege, or you will be participating in PVP real quick!

It's extremely nice you did that, but not everyone plays the same way you do. I've done plenty of pvp and I do not fear it. I simply HATE pvping. It's truly absurd to expect people to go through such lengths for something that was not a hassle at all before and easily available for all your alts.

I think the problem with you two and those who share your views is that you don't really care to look at it from a different perspective. Why even come in here and tell us we're wrong for wanting rapid changed? You just don't want it to go back at all? Why is that, then? If you don't care about the change, why are you in here telling us to get over it?

JoeCapricorn

Kwoung wrote: »

You can't buy Rapids with Crowns, so not sure what you mean there, hopefully not someone never training their mount because they had rapids, as thats just kinda dumb.

Alliance Skill Unlocks in the Crown store for 3000 crowns unlocks and levels the skill-line to max, providing that as a shortcut to going into Cyrodiil to PVP.

You're also missing the point. Not everyone likes PVP, whether they are in a group or not. I'm in a PVP guild. I just never had the time to try and gear up an alt to regain Rapids. This was due to IRL stuff. Have I ruled it out entirely? No. But IRL stuff continues. Also this month is National Novel Writing Month, and I'll be busy with that (I'm already behind, but I anticipate getting in gear now that certain things seem settled for now). When I do group PVP, I much prefer doing so on my main, I hope to get him to Grand Overlord by 2030.

And again, if they lowered the requirements for Rapid Maneuver to Assault 3, that would lower the steep wall and make it more likely that I would feel comfortable earning back Rapids. As opposed to several hours per alt, it is perhaps one or two Battlegrounds matches away, and that is not as tall of an order.

The fact that ZOS has not acknowledged any kind of compromise on this issue is frustrating

SilverBride

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

The fact that ZOS has not acknowledged any kind of compromise on this issue is frustrating

That tells me that they don't intend to compromise, or they would have said something by now.

Kwoung had some good advice. I wish you would consider his suggestions.

Varana

Does that advice encompass PvPing? Then it's not actually useful advice.

BTW, warabi had some good remarks for you as well.

warabi

SilverBride wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

I'm in a PVP guild. I just never had the time to try and gear up an alt to regain Rapids.
This was due to IRL stuff...

When I do group PVP, I much prefer doing so on my main, I hope to get him to Grand Overlord by 2030.

[Quoted post was removed]

Joe said repeatedly in that post he's talking about alts. You even quoted one of the sentences he said: "I just never had the time to try and gear up an alt to regain Rapids."

Also, he went on to say:
"As opposed to several hours per alt, it is perhaps one or two Battlegrounds matches away, and that is not as tall of an order."

Of course, I agree. I do have rapid on a few of my characters, but as I said before, it's absurd that you'd have to do quite a lot of work on alts just to get rapid back when it was freely available before.

Anyway, mind answering my questions from my previous post?

DrSlaughtr

Rapids sucks to slot. Get rid of it. Increase base speed by 10% per level. It's a dumb skill

Iarao

[quote=

I still have a character with rapids unlocked at rank 4. They definitely could have left it for people who had it already.[/quote]

but then that would remove a ton of possible purchasers of the coming item in the crown store. like the skyshards. you have rapids on 1 toon and can buy the upgrade for each toon that doesnt have it.

Iarao

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

I've been giving it some thought.

It really wouldn't hurt anyone for them to lower the requirements to get Rapid Maneuver. Just lower the requirements. Not everyone likes PVP, some people prefer not to PVP entirely. LET THEM. How about lower the requirements for Rapid Maneuver so that the people who hated PVP can get their Rapids back? Hmm?

There is no reason NOT to lower the requirements. I can't think of any. Or swap Rapids with Siege Shield. Everyone would be happy.

think crown store sales.

omnidoh

I don't even use the skill anymore because I don't mount anymore.
Vampire Stage 4 + Unnatural Movement + Concealed Weapon + Cowards Gear, and well... I simply don't need a mount.

Ackwalan

Ring of the wild hunt > rapids.

Noggin_the_Nog

Ackwalan wrote: »

Ring of the wild hunt > rapids.

omnidoh wrote: »

I don't even use the skill anymore because I don't mount anymore.
Vampire Stage 4 + Unnatural Movement + Concealed Weapon + Cowards Gear, and well... I simply don't need a mount.

Everyone will agree that you can set up one character to be very quick without Rapids - even being quicker than mounted. That's great for one character, particularly for resource node farming.

But I have over 30 characters - Healers, tanks, DDs for both PvE and PvP. They all wear sets suitable for their roles, just as I have one character who is set up to be speedy. If I set them all up to be speedy they would not be able to fulfill their roles.

Rapids is an essential skill for all but one of my characters.

It's quite impossible to gain AP or XP sometimes without it.

omnidoh wrote: »

.. I simply don't need a mount.

- How can I politely respond to someone who does not use Rapids or even a horse, in a Forum Thread full of players who really do need rapids?

Rapids is an essential skill - please give us back our rapids.

Hotdog_23

Have rapids on all 18 of my characters but with the ring of the wild hunt on 14 of them I just hardly ever use it anymore. Working on ring 15 now and plan to get it for all my characters.

Overland you do not need the extra dps of a 5-piece set. Stuff dies quick enough. Sure, if I do a harder world boss or dungeon, I just switch the ring out to complete a 5-piece set and switch back once done. Mounting slows me down unless I am traveling across the map.

That said ZOS should switch the skill so that it unlocks at level 3 instead of 5 and Continuous attack passive to level 5. See a lot people suggest move it to Siege Shield rank but that is in the Support skill tree and not the Assault skill line.

Be safe and have fun

SilverBride

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

Rapids is an essential skill for all but one of my characters.

It's quite impossible to gain AP or XP sometimes without it.

This is simply not true. It is not impossible to do anything without rapids. I and others like me who have never used rapids manage to gain XP and do everything else in game quite fine without it.

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

How can I politely respond to someone who does not use Rapids or even a horse, in a Forum Thread full of players who really do need rapids?

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

SilverBride

[response to removed post deleted by poster]

Kwoung

Varana wrote: »

Does that advice encompass PvPing? Then it's not actually useful advice.

BTW, warabi had some good remarks for you as well.

Actually no, it doesn't encompass PVPing, it encompasses going to Cyrodill and doing PVE, the same thing everyone complaining does in ever other zone in the game sans IC. You do realize there are campaigns that are mostly empty 90% of the time, and if you are with 5 guildies you can heavy attack down pretty much any 1vXer by simply holding down your left mouse button with a lightning staff? It totally melts them, as they are not built to withstand heavy attacks, just think of them as a boss mob and you are all set!

Kwoung

warabi wrote: »

I think the problem with you two and those who share your views is that you don't really care to look at it from a different perspective. Why even come in here and tell us we're wrong for wanting rapid changed? You just don't want it to go back at all? Why is that, then? If you don't care about the change, why are you in here telling us to get over it?

Nope, not it at all, I completely looked at the situation from different perspectives, which is why I helped my guild members earn it back in as painless a way as possible. Games change, I have been playing MMO's for over 20 years now, not a single one of them stayed the same, not one. Requirements for gear changes, skills change, everything changes as they add new things and attempt to re-balance them, its how this genre works. Whatever ZOS's reasons were for this change, good or bad, the change happened. Adapt, complaining never got anything changed back in any of those other games either, so you go with the flow. IMHO, it isn't even a PVP skill, on one of my alts I just soloed resources (a PVE activity) and earned it back without ever seeing another player or engaging in any PVP at all.

Hurbster

Sadly, I think that horse has bolted.

Slowly and with minimal stamina. Now back to my class hall...

SilverBride

[response to removed posts deleted by poster]

Noggin_the_Nog

SilverBride wrote: »

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

Rapids is an essential skill for all but one of my characters.
It's quite impossible to gain AP or XP sometimes without it.

This is simply not true. It is not impossible to do anything without rapids. I and others like me who have never used rapids manage to gain XP and do everything else in game quite fine without it. .

Getting back to the subject of this thread - Please give us back Rapid Maneuvers.

I do understand that some players do not use rapids or even use a horse, or even build a speedy character. That's great - ESO is a play as you want game. But for me, and others, it is an essential skill.

Please give me your thoughts as to a problem I have with the loss of rapids:

I have 11 characters solely participating In PvP - in the under level 50 campaign - Icereach. They range from level 14 to level 49. I also have 3 characters in Greyhost, but I do prefer the under level 50 campaign. The low level characters are still mount training, so their riding speed skill is rather low. They used to have Rapids before it was stolen by ZOS.

Let's say I'm on one of these and an AD character, waiting at Sejanus for EP to attack. Suddenly there's a call in zone chat for help at Ash as DC are attacking - Ash is already flagged. I can port to Roebeck, but DC have already taken Nikel, so I have to ride from Roe to Ash. Maybe Ash milegate is down, so I have to ride from Carmala to Ash. There's no way I can each Ash in time to save the keep without rapids. I know this as I've tried it several times.

One suggestion is to use the Ring of the Wild Hunt - on a level 20 character?

Another suggestion is to use gear sets to make me speedy - great - so I equip a speedy set (level 20?) and ride to Ash, then the usual Nightblade attacks from stealth. I'm stunned, but wait to equip my PvP set in Impenetrable, ready to fight - and of course by that time I'm dead.

It's a dilemma.

Without rapids I just can not play in PvP - Icereach. All I can do is wait in keeps or outposts, hoping they will be attacked.

Sadly for me, without rapids I'm not gaining AP so not increasing my AvA rank to earn rapids.

SilverBride

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

Without rapids I just can not play in PvP - Icereach. All I can do is wait in keeps or outposts, hoping they will be attacked.

If you group for PvP, which I assume is usually the case, you would still benefit from someone else in the group using rapids since it's a group skill.

Kwoung

Noggin_the_Nog wrote: »

Without rapids I just can not play in PvP - Icereach. All I can do is wait in keeps or outposts, hoping they will be attacked.

Sadly for me, without rapids I'm not gaining AP so not increasing my AvA rank to earn rapids.

Sorry, as I said before, I did, lots of people I know did, so you are apparently going about it the wrong way if you just "can't do it". I even managed to run from keep to keep with low riding skill and no rapids in time to get in on most battles and get a tick, which is exactly what you say you can't do, so obviously you are doing something wrong, not the game.