Veteran players in normal dungeons.

EmEm_Oh

Thurban wrote: »

Anyone else think its about time that a CP cap or something similar is added to dungeon finder? I for one am tired of chasing after speed players/player who basically just rush off and complete a dungeon solo not thinking of their low level groupmates. Ignoring people who are on quests etc etc. So perhaps it is time to place a level cap, so high level players can only play veteran dungeons after a certain level or CP?

I was asked yesterday to help with a normal dungeon as one player left or was booyed, I can't recall. I'm 810 with a good amount of dps.

What about that situation?

doomette

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

This is a ZOS problem though, and one that they've fixed in the new DLC dungeons but haven't bothered to go back and fix with the older dungeons.
.

So, complain to ZOS because you're inconsiderate of your groupmates? Sadly, that's considered an extraneous ticket or I gladly would.

THanks to all the pledge groups that rush ahead and caused my slow tank self to miss gear in Vaults of Madness!

I’ve always found it odd when people blame the game’s mechanics for their own inconsiderate behavior. Like yeah, it could be designed better, but we know how it functions and need to work within that system. But it does goes both ways, so if a majority of the group want to be speedsters, someone who wants to take it slow should probably find another group; if a majority want/don’t mind going slower, the person who just wants a fast farming run should find another group. Well, in a perfect, considerate world that is.

parpin

NO BAD IDEA.
first of all if you need quest, just tell the group in chat, 99% of people will let you get quest done, very very rarely some jack ass might ignore you.
i have been leveling my toon trough dungeons only and did many quest without problem at all.
high level cp players in normal dungeon speed up the run specially when you do not need quest and helping you level up your toons.

zvavi

Did you try asking them to slow down?

newtinmpls

jecks33 wrote: »

ok, imagine someone that have to farm some set piece in a specific dungeon, doing the same dungeon 20/30 times in a day, a dungeon already done 100/200/300 times during his life in eso. How can he have the patience to wait for people to read books, quests, booksheves, took some screenshot, etc?

I don't have to "imagine" it, I've done it, I've helped friends, and on occasions guildies and on occasion complete strangers.

What I am hearing you say seems to equate to you want all consideration for you, and none for anyone else.

If you want to farm - then go run the dungeon solo at your own pace. Unless it's a dungeon that requires two people ("Oh, if only I had a companion") or has mechanics that require help, you don't need help.

You are asking for help.

Be polite, and as they are being helpful to you, be helpful to them.

Or be jerk, and expect to be kicked from the group for jerk-ish behavior.

newtinmpls

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

So, it's not a "carry" - more like getting screwed over by a rude fetcher.

Well said.

Jeremy

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

The problem I see here is that I may miss quest starts or steps due to a speed player. Allow those to be accomplished even if someone speeds through and I would be completely fine.

Redesigning the dungeon quests to accommodate the new reality of normal dungeons on this game would definitely help.

WySoSirius

After repeated failed vet dungeons with inexperienced players and I want my bonus xp. I will just jump into normal.

Irfind

Hm no, i play normal most of the time and i have over 1k CP.

1. I dont want to switch my skills all the time from PVP to PVE
2. I dont like the Vet DPS races (DLCs)
3. I can solo normal (helping others)

Rebel_Rose

Okay then lets turn this around. If players who are over level 50 are allowed to queue for and ruin normal level dungeons, then surely players under level 50 can queue for and ruin veteran dungeons equally?

joerginger

What kind of logic is this supposed to be?

CowNRB

reason we need a story mode/solo mode for some dungeons. its a pain to try to do these when people that are any level run ahead

richo262

People that request others be considerate usually give no consideration themselves.

Person A: Wait a minute while I read this lore book. I don't care how long you've been farming this dungeon.
Person B: I'm farming this dungeon. I don't care for your lorebooks.

Both are inconsiderate to eachother. Get over it. Furthermore, you can read all the logs through Shalidor memory. DLC dungeons now only have dialogue at the beginning, the story telling afterward is done in real time. A speed runner cannot rob you of that if you are listening to the NPC in the room.

ZOS should rejig the old dungeons to be more fluid like the DLC dungeons with story telling without ridiculous hold ups, Vaults of Madness comes to mind.

If somebody says they have the quest, I do the dungeon as intended. If they do not, and I'm farming, I skip. IE Crypt of Hearts farming Ebon gear. I do not do the side boss by default unless somebody declares they have the quest, then of course I'd do it.

What would be really cool, and beneficial for everybody is this:

The first teams to get No Death, Time and Hardmode trifecta will have their run logs recorded. ZOS then picks the best one, and uses that as a 'Story Mode'. The player, as a ghost, or observer, gets to walk through the dungeon with the group.

At each boss fight, get prompted to begin, so the dungeon freezes. The player can then take in the scenery, or observe player positions etc.

This 'Story Mode' acts for 2 purposes, 1) a player can revisit a dungeon and watch the dungeon and take in the story and 2) a player can observe all the mechanics in the dungeon at their fullest difficulty to try to learn how the dungeon works.

ZOS could even replace the characters of players with actual NPC's such as Lyris / Tharn / Sai / Token Breton / Token Nord / Token High Elf / Fenn / Cat Queen / ETC. So they may publish a criteria for any team that wants their run published 1 player must be using a 2hander (to be replaced by Lyris).

If the logs of the team, their placements, skills, etc are all recorded server side, it shouldn't be too difficult to replay it.

Guthix_of_the_Green

Story mode for solo would actually be great. I NEVER got to listen to all the voice acting or see the options to choose in dialouges

thorwyn

Here's a true story about veteran players grouping with not-so-veterans...

Me (CP 1150+) and a guildmate (CP 700ish) queued for a pledge the other day. DC2 came up, after porting in, checking my buff food and everything, I noticed that we were grouped with a tank and a healer, both around CP250. Both of them just ran past the first bunch of mobs and past the first boss like Charles Manson's on crack, leaving us to deal with the aggroed mobs that came swarming towards the entrance.

I told my guild mate to just stay here at the entrance and let them do their thing. A minute later, both of them died. One of them said: "If you think we're going to carry you through the dungeon, you are very wrong!"
I just said: "Well you were running ahead so I guess you are skilled enough and don't need our support. You pull it, you kill it."
He said: "But this is the most efficient way of doing this! Will you come help us now, please?"

We finished the dungeon together, they even said thank you after the last boss died.
Lesson to learn: It's not always the high CP "elitists" who are acting like idiots.

richo262

thorwyn wrote: »

Here's a true story about veteran players grouping with not-so-veterans...

Me (CP 1150+) and a guildmate (CP 700ish) queued for a pledge the other day. DC2 came up, after porting in, checking my buff food and everything, I noticed that we were grouped with a tank and a healer, both around CP250. Both of them just ran past the first bunch of mobs and past the first boss like Charles Manson's on crack, leaving us to deal with the aggroed mobs that came swarming towards the entrance.

I told my guild mate to just stay here at the entrance and let them do their thing. A minute later, both of them died. One of them said: "If you think we're going to carry you through the dungeon, you are very wrong!"
I just said: "Well you were running ahead so I guess you are skilled enough and don't need our support. You pull it, you kill it."
He said: "But this is the most efficient way of doing this! Will you come help us now, please?"

We finished the dungeon together, they even said thank you after the last boss died.
Lesson to learn: It's not always the high CP "elitists" who are acting like idiots.

I've heard of tanks being snobs, but if you were paired with a Tank and a Healer, that makes you a DPS. Yes, the tank was doing his job, and you let them die. There is no pat on the back from me. It is very normal for Tanks to run through packs to agro them onto him into a group so DPS can AOE them efficiently. Never heard of a DPS behaving like a snob when they have no que finder leverage.

The tank is mean to pull it so YOU can kill it.

Eiregirl

Thurban wrote: »

Anyone else think its about time that a CP cap or something similar is added to dungeon finder? I for one am tired of chasing after speed players/player who basically just rush off and complete a dungeon solo not thinking of their low level groupmates. Ignoring people who are on quests etc etc. So perhaps it is time to place a level cap, so high level players can only play veteran dungeons after a certain level or CP?

I feel your pain but I very rarely have to deal with that because I rarely use the group finder and when I do it is generally with people I know. I prefer to solo or short group dungeons whether vet or normal with a friend or two and just teleport in and it is the way I have done it for years because I like to take my time but if the people I am playing with want the speed achievement we can rush through then go back and loot the barrels, chests and pick up heavy sacks and that is the beauty of playing with like minded people.

thorwyn

The tank is mean to pull it so YOU can kill it.

[snip]

We were still at the entrance when they died somewhere half way through the dungeon. They ported in and ran off without saying a word, then they pulled a boss while no DD was even around. Don't tell me that's "a tank doing his job".

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Rebel_Rose

You should not be able to queue via dungeon finder for normal dungeons if you are over level 50. There is no reason why you cannot either go to the dungeons manually with a friend or solo if you need to. Can you not port directly to dungeons you have already done?

Rowjoh

3 step solution:

1) Join a half decent guild or two then run content with them at you're own pace.

2) Always mention in group chat what you are there for and that you don't want, or cant do, a speed run. And be polite.
Doesn't guarantee complete success but certainly helps reduce the number of occasions players will run off ahead.

3) Ask in zone chat if anyone is up for the content you want do at a 'relaxed' pace. If you don't ask you don't get !

Nairinhe

Thurban wrote: »

You should not be able to queue via dungeon finder for normal dungeons if you are over level 50. There is no reason why you cannot either go to the dungeons manually with a friend or solo if you need to. Can you not port directly to dungeons you have already done?

I may be top CP crafter and quester. I may have social anxiety instead of friends. I may be just too bad for vet, but want that daily random dungeon rewards. What about DLC dungeons?

How about you do dungeons only solo or with a friend if you are so annoyed by other players? That's not your personal game, y'know.

Aznarb

richo262 wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

Here's a true story about veteran players grouping with not-so-veterans...

Me (CP 1150+) and a guildmate (CP 700ish) queued for a pledge the other day. DC2 came up, after porting in, checking my buff food and everything, I noticed that we were grouped with a tank and a healer, both around CP250. Both of them just ran past the first bunch of mobs and past the first boss like Charles Manson's on crack, leaving us to deal with the aggroed mobs that came swarming towards the entrance.

I told my guild mate to just stay here at the entrance and let them do their thing. A minute later, both of them died. One of them said: "If you think we're going to carry you through the dungeon, you are very wrong!"
I just said: "Well you were running ahead so I guess you are skilled enough and don't need our support. You pull it, you kill it."
He said: "But this is the most efficient way of doing this! Will you come help us now, please?"

We finished the dungeon together, they even said thank you after the last boss died.
Lesson to learn: It's not always the high CP "elitists" who are acting like idiots.

I've heard of tanks being snobs, but if you were paired with a Tank and a Healer, that makes you a DPS. Yes, the tank was doing his job, and you let them die. There is no pat on the back from me. It is very normal for Tanks to run through packs to agro them onto him into a group so DPS can AOE them efficiently. Never heard of a DPS behaving like a snob when they have no que finder leverage.

The tank is mean to pull it so YOU can kill it.

This ^
If the Tank and heal go ahead, then follow, that your role as DDs, not the contrary.
The Tank was right, it's fast to all of u go to boss, then all mob will come and just burst all in aoe on boss.
Especially in an easy DG.
I'll go all day with a Tank like this rather than one who pull little by little making the run slower than it should. It's not a vDLC so just go.

Leighlaa

I think that the best option for avoiding this is to speak up when the group begins. As a high CP player who'd much rather rush through, I always go slowly if people have the quest. Heck, I'll even go slowly enough for reading and RP I don't care. But I can't read your mind. You'll need to tell me if you need to go more slowly. Because if you don't do that, I'm going to play at my skill level, which means things die really, really fast. I'm probably in here farming gear and this is the 4th or 5th or 10th time of done the dungeon. I'm not going to go more slowly unless it's requested.

On DLC normal dungeons, I do pause before bosses with any mildly challenging mechanics and explain them. But again, I'm going to assume you know the mechanics and didn't just jump blindly into difficult content. And if you DID do that and are expecting me to go slowly because you're confused about what's happening, I have nothing for you. Either be somewhat prepared and let me know it's you're first time so I can help you..... or be experienced and do your job while I do mine. If I'm doing my job well as an end-game, high CP player, that means it's going to be very, VERY fast. Why would you want it to be slower?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your complaint but I see absolutely no reason you'd want a cap if you've followed everything I've said thus far.

Ithilis

Even veteran players can still be in need of gear (or completing the quest), and it is easier to farm sets in normal mode and then upgrade them than veteran mode.

Strider__Roshin

Thurban wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

you don't like carries?

No i like to do things myself and earn things myself.

Then why queue with strangers?

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO

Why are people assuming that players who reach level 50, CP160, or even CP810, would automatically know how to play the game? And why are people assuming that low level players do *not* know how to play the game? Both are wrong. There simply is no reliable way of ranking players based on their level. Also, two different characters played by the same person, with the same CP level, can perform very, very differently for various reasons such as practice, gear, skill points and CP distribution.

Locking people out of entry level dungeons because they have been questing for a few days and leveled up to 50, without ever doing even a remotely difficult fight, is a terrible idea. All my early characters were leveled through the main quest, not engaging in any group play until long after they hit level 50. With your proposed lock in place, none of them would have ever seen the inside of a normal mode dungeon, and they would have failed miserably running their first dungeons in vet mode, creating problems for others who would have had a chance of clearing it without me dragging them down.

Even now at CP1000+, I can still appreciate a laid-back normal dungeon run with friends of very mixed levels, ambitions and skill, and we appreciate the option of filling out those groups with randoms from the group finder.

thorwyn

If the Tank and heal go ahead, then follow, that your role as DDs, not the contrary.

While we agree that the tank usually decides the pace in a dungeon, it is still his responsibility to keep an eye on the group, making sure that noone is lagging behind and that everyone is ready and buffed and ported in.

If the tank and his buddy decides to run off without a word, it's is his decision. In that case, I assume he knows what he's doing and can handle the situation like the pro that he is. And the last thing I do is wade through a lake of trash mobs that he decided to skip just to save his fluffy butt when something goes wrong.

wolfie1.0.

Thurban wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

you don't like carries?

No i like to do things myself and earn things myself.

You could like go solo or double in most of the non DLC dungeons. Or just get a few guild members or firends.to queue with you.

Grandchamp1989

Main problem is communication. We all kinda suck at it.

Let people know your needs and intentions.

If you need quest, tell the group
If you need toilet breaks, tell the group
don't know mech? Tell the group
wanna rush? Tell the group

wolfie1.0.

svendf wrote: »

I understand op and agreed there are issues. I´m guilty - I do run normal dungeons, but not in more hurrie, that I can´t wait on otther player´s.

Do you run a quest np I can wait maybe because I have been in same situation. It´s people with attitude problems and no respect for fellow player´s and when I get one in my group I votekick. If that don´t do it I have no problem in getting toxic.

OP will for sure get responce like - it´s gf, form your own group and what not. As I se it they are not the right people to listen to as they do not have the problem or part of the problem or they don´t care.

I don´t believe alot of these runners are on these forums alor if they are at all.

One of these told me that he had alot of chars to run and didn´t have time to wait. What I also got from this conversation, was that he did no trials no team related play - just his own thing. Sad I feel, but some are real asocial.

Then you have those,who just want it over with - a really bad excuse. Same goes for skippers they skip because it´s not fun anymore.

Adding a cp cap because of some bad apples, no. What I wanna se is a community reaction like kick. It´s the community, who have to come up with a solution.

The problem with your argument is that your excludingwhole groups of people and that is the group that is trying to transition out of normal dungeons, that just want gear for pvp and or are just trying to get undaunted unlocked.

Kicking people is NOT the right response here. That should be reserved for things like AFK or harassment. And no completing content to fast is not harrassment it's just rude. Ask them to slow done if they dont and you want to go slower you always have the option of starting over. Go gather some friends and then go.