Veteran players in normal dungeons.

jm42

jecks33 wrote: »

ok, imagine someone that have to farm some set piece in a specific dungeon, doing the same dungeon 20/30 times in a day, a dungeon already done 100/200/300 times during his life in eso. How can he have the patience to wait for people to read books, quests, booksheves, took some screenshot, etc?

go do it solo, all normals are completely soloable

JamuThatsWho

Either do a guild run or mention you need the quest at the beginning.

No need to hamstring higher level players farming for leads/gear/XP.

Coatmagic

Possibly a speed option and a quest option would be helpful, but you cannot do it by CP.

Too many players think CP is indicative of skill and it is absolutely NOT.

This one would actually like a way to hide her CP so people stop expecting she is some sort of god just because she's been in game since start >^^<

Did not step foot into group content since well over cap and there are many the same.

Rebel_Rose

BigBragg wrote: »

O.P. I'd be curious to here your opinion when you reach whatever CP threshold you think it should be. When you finally reach that point, would you like to be stuck in only vet dungeons for whatever you are trying to accomplish for the rest of the time you play ESO?

That is not something I will ever enjoy. I hit up dungeons for the Undaunted skill line, occational set farm, and now leads. Sometimes vet, sometimes normal. Not sure I want to be punished and have options stripped away solely because I have spent more time in the game than others.

I have hit 810cp and i think it fair you are allowed to get to level 50 firstly in normal dungeons. Soon as you not, you have to do vet dungeons only.

mairwen85

jm42 wrote: »

Thurban wrote: »

Anyone else think its about time that a CP cap or something similar is added to dungeon finder? I for one am tired of chasing after speed players/player who basically just rush off and complete a dungeon solo not thinking of their low level groupmates. Ignoring people who are on quests etc etc. So perhaps it is time to place a level cap, so high level players can only play veteran dungeons after a certain level or CP?

I agree with the idea but the last sentence is awful. there must be just lvl-matching system that groups people in +-10 lvl range and +-100 CP range later

I've been grouped with 810s who do nothing but light attacks spam, or have no idea what taunt is--and CP100s who more than pull their weight... I don't think CP separation in normals has any validity at all. It comes down to common courtesy of players being grouped. 1 thing I do every day on all my toons is ask in guild who wants a random; when I zone in, first thing I ask is who is questing... like I say, simple, common courtesy. If farming, I ask who wants to farm (in guild), if no one, I'll solo.

Eifleber

Anyway you can not select players for normal and vet because some normal dungeons are way harder than some veteran dungeons. Normal MHK >> Vet FG1 for example.

Dungeons should first be tiered before you can reliably match players.

maxjapank

Thurban wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

O.P. I'd be curious to here your opinion when you reach whatever CP threshold you think it should be. When you finally reach that point, would you like to be stuck in only vet dungeons for whatever you are trying to accomplish for the rest of the time you play ESO?

That is not something I will ever enjoy. I hit up dungeons for the Undaunted skill line, occational set farm, and now leads. Sometimes vet, sometimes normal. Not sure I want to be punished and have options stripped away solely because I have spent more time in the game than others.

I have hit 810cp and i think it fair you are allowed to get to level 50 firstly in normal dungeons. Soon as you not, you have to do vet dungeons only.

There are achieves for normal dungeons. Not to mention getting Undaunted leveled up. You just need to find friends or get lucky with better pugs. I've always been more than happy to let anyone finish quests, etc.

EvilAutoTech

My opinion is that if you join a pug, you should be willing to accept what you get. Your reasons for being there are not more important than any other member of the group. If you want the group to be on your terms, you need to form it, or at least, join others who want to do the activity the same way you do.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Vet’s too hard, normal is too easy. It sucks being in this aggrivating limbo

kathandira

Thurban wrote: »

Anyone else think its about time that a CP cap or something similar is added to dungeon finder? I for one am tired of chasing after speed players/player who basically just rush off and complete a dungeon solo not thinking of their low level groupmates. Ignoring people who are on quests etc etc. So perhaps it is time to place a level cap, so high level players can only play veteran dungeons after a certain level or CP?

This is just me, and I cannot speak for others.

- When I enter a dungeon, I wait till everyone is loaded in. If I see a player load in and move to the quest giver, I will slow my pace between bosses so they can move their quest forward. Aside from that, I may wait for a tank if they prove to actually be tanking. If they are derping around, I will move forward without them if I am confident that I can handle the boss myself without being a hinderance to the rest of the group. I know the encounters of each dungeon from the perspective of all roles, and I won't put the group in danger of getting killed if I run off ahead of them. I also do this on my lowbies. I build well, and can solo most non-DLC, Non 'II' dungeons so long as they don't have forced group mechanics (FG2 for example).

So I guess you can say i'm a considerate rusher?

zaria

doomette wrote: »

Thurban wrote: »

Anyone else think its about time that a CP cap or something similar is added to dungeon finder? I for one am tired of chasing after speed players/player who basically just rush off and complete a dungeon solo not thinking of their low level groupmates. Ignoring people who are on quests etc etc. So perhaps it is time to place a level cap, so high level players can only play veteran dungeons after a certain level or CP?

Uh no, not when there’s leads and well, like a million other reasons why they’d be in normal instead of slogging it in vet. Plus, just because they’re 810 doesn’t mean they’re ready for vet dungeons...
I sympathize with people who are stuck with jerks who just speed through with no regard for the group. That’s messed up and selfish and I wish they’d just solo it rather than ruin the dungeon for the rest of the group. But your solution would also punish those who would never act in such an anti-social way.

This for one you are supposed to do the quest in normal, its usually not much of an problem but if you listen to all the dialogues in vet people can get annoyed.

Thurban wrote: »

BigBragg wrote: »

O.P. I'd be curious to here your opinion when you reach whatever CP threshold you think it should be. When you finally reach that point, would you like to be stuck in only vet dungeons for whatever you are trying to accomplish for the rest of the time you play ESO?

That is not something I will ever enjoy. I hit up dungeons for the Undaunted skill line, occational set farm, and now leads. Sometimes vet, sometimes normal. Not sure I want to be punished and have options stripped away solely because I have spent more time in the game than others.

I have hit 810cp and i think it fair you are allowed to get to level 50 firstly in normal dungeons. Soon as you not, you have to do vet dungeons only.

Well then enjoy lots more <10 k dps players in your dungeons.
For one if you level up mostly using random dungeons you will only do 20 or less before level 50.
So you will still be very skill point starved then reaching 50 on an new character.
Now lets talk about how fun DLC dungeons would be.

biovitalb16_ESO

Sure as long as it works the other way around so I can filter out people with low cps that would rather farm Craglorn for nirn than work on their characters and filter out people on quests that make stuff drag on longer than I want it to for the 55,343rd time in that dungeon.

honey_badger82

It's funny when you que for a specific vet DLC dungeon usually for pledges... and at least one of the group members immediately leaves the group once they realize they landed in a DLC dungeon for their vet random que.
I already takes forever to get a group with dungeon finder anyway unless I am on my tank. Implementing any sort of change like this would make it exponentially worse.
I do dungeons pretty much daily and I can attest not all high CP players are up to par. Just last night had a CP810 pvp player in my group for a normal DLC dungeon I have run many times with no deaths or issues. We completed but only because I stayed and took time to explain the mechanics and they all listened and did as directed. Too many players leave a dungeon after 1 or 2 party wipes instead of even attempting to explain.
Finding a replacement for a dungeon halfway through is even worse at times, especially if it is a pledge and you already killed some of the pledge targets. You get so many auto quits that way.

Everest_Lionheart

honey_badger82 wrote: »

It's funny when you que for a specific vet DLC dungeon usually for pledges... and at least one of the group members immediately leaves the group once they realize they landed in a DLC dungeon for their vet random que.
I already takes forever to get a group with dungeon finder anyway unless I am on my tank. Implementing any sort of change like this would make it exponentially worse.
I do dungeons pretty much daily and I can attest not all high CP players are up to par. Just last night had a CP810 pvp player in my group for a normal DLC dungeon I have run many times with no deaths or issues. We completed but only because I stayed and took time to explain the mechanics and they all listened and did as directed. Too many players leave a dungeon after 1 or 2 party wipes instead of even attempting to explain.
Finding a replacement for a dungeon halfway through is even worse at times, especially if it is a pledge and you already killed some of the pledge targets. You get so many auto quits that way.

Similar experience last night in a pug with 2 810s and a CP102 tank. The healer did most of the tanking. That dude was an all star. We kept getting tripped up on the next to last boss on the wipe mechanic. I had not run it before so after 2 I asked mechs and the superstar healer laid it out and the whole group passed it easily. Rest of the dungeon was super easy though just that one boss fight that only the healer knew how to beat.

mairwen85

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

honey_badger82 wrote: »

It's funny when you que for a specific vet DLC dungeon usually for pledges... and at least one of the group members immediately leaves the group once they realize they landed in a DLC dungeon for their vet random que.
I already takes forever to get a group with dungeon finder anyway unless I am on my tank. Implementing any sort of change like this would make it exponentially worse.
I do dungeons pretty much daily and I can attest not all high CP players are up to par. Just last night had a CP810 pvp player in my group for a normal DLC dungeon I have run many times with no deaths or issues. We completed but only because I stayed and took time to explain the mechanics and they all listened and did as directed. Too many players leave a dungeon after 1 or 2 party wipes instead of even attempting to explain.
Finding a replacement for a dungeon halfway through is even worse at times, especially if it is a pledge and you already killed some of the pledge targets. You get so many auto quits that way.

Similar experience last night in a pug with 2 810s and a CP102 tank. The healer did most of the tanking. That dude was an all star. We kept getting tripped up on the next to last boss on the wipe mechanic. I had not run it before so after 2 I asked mechs and the superstar healer laid it out and the whole group passed it easily. Rest of the dungeon was super easy though just that one boss fight that only the healer knew how to beat.

And people say healers aren't relevant...

Ravensilver

No. Definitely no cap, please.

I'm 810+, but I just recently readjusted my skills and gear so that I am *finally* able to solo dungeons well. I won't touch vet with a 50 foot dragon. I'm not fast enough, I'm not good enough, my reaction time just isn't what is needed in vet. But I can now do solo normal and that makes me very, very, very happy.

I would like things to stay just as they are.

(Unless, of course, ZOS decides to make the raids available for solo play, too... I'd go for that... ^^;;;;)

Danksta

What's to stop low level players from doing this?

Kingslayer513

Yet another "I need the random group finder to be specifically tailored to my needs at the cost of others" post.

Yawn.

FlopsyPrince

The problem I see here is that I may miss quest starts or steps due to a speed player. Allow those to be accomplished even if someone speeds through and I would be completely fine.

Casul

I honestly wonder if the people who make these threads ever ask in chat if people wouldn't mind slowing down. If noone says anything then how am I to assume anything is wrong.

kathandira

Danksta wrote: »

What's to stop low level players from doing this?

Nothing. I'll do it on a level 10 character with ease.

Arunei

As annoying as it can be to have someone zip through the dungeons and make you feel rushed, I don't think implementing a any sort of level caps would be a good idea. Most people, including myself, will run normal dungeons for gear, since it's faster and easier than running the vet versions. Not only that, as others have mentioned, CP is account wide, so if you make a new character, then what happens with them? Are they just locked out from dungeons period? Does ZOS add yet another check to consider character level before CP? We're already seeing how they're trying to remove or at least reduce the number of checks with the AOE testing, I'm not sure they'd be willing to add brand new ones that might end up breaking dungeons or CP altogether.

Batmanna wrote: »

I usually run normal dungeons when I need to farm gear. That's not fun, after doing the same [snip] 30 times in a day I will not slowpoke my way to the end. If anyone need a quest done I will wait for it, but the day you force a player to go thru the rng gear grind only vet mode is the day that player will uninstall. If you want it done the slow way run with your friends.

jecks33 wrote: »

ok, imagine someone that have to farm some set piece in a specific dungeon, doing the same dungeon 20/30 times in a day, a dungeon already done 100/200/300 times during his life in eso. How can he have the patience to wait for people to read books, quests, booksheves, took some screenshot, etc?

cheifsoap wrote: »

Maybe you should find some in game friends and run dungeons with them. "Veteran" players want to get their dailies done and leave.

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Sure as long as it works the other way around so I can filter out people with low cps that would rather farm Craglorn for nirn than work on their characters and filter out people on quests that make stuff drag on longer than I want it to for the 55,343rd time in that dungeon.

One could also say the same for wanting to just blast through dungeons. If you don't want to go a bit slower than you might want, do what you guys are telling others and group with like-minded friends and guildmates. This solution is a two-way road and applies both to people doing quests or just wanting to take their time in general, AND to people who want to get through the content as fast as they possibly can. Either that or you can solo the dungeon, but don't use the excuse of other people grouping with friends or whatever and then act as though that advice doesn't also apply to you and your play style.

BuildMan wrote: »

I honestly wonder if the people who make these threads ever ask in chat if people wouldn't mind slowing down. If noone says anything then how am I to assume anything is wrong.

It's a matter of just asking. Even if no one else says they need something, that doesn't mean anything; a lot of people are too shy or not confident enough to speak up because of mindsets like this, where people will jump them for wanting to take their time for a quest or something. Quickly asking "anyone need quest" before running off takes a second or two, and if no one answers then, sure, whatever at that point.

kathandira

What if Normal acted like Battle Grounds?

Your CP is disabled when you enter a Normal Dungeon?

IonicKai

LioraValkyrie wrote: »

FFXIV has level sync when grouping for dungeons, it's a pretty cool idea.

You can still go in solo or premade and annihilate everything, but if you want the daily rewards you have to use the duty finder and your level and gear level gets capped based on the suggested level of the dungeon.

This would mean that when entering normal FG1, your perfected false god's and whatever else would temporarily become level 10 strength and your CP would be disabled. You would still have an advantage over an actual level 10 by having a complete build with passives and such, but you might feel like part of the team and not an OP titan-king that obliterates bosses in 7 seconds.

All of ESO is scaled off of CP160. Lower levels get buffed and higher levels just get the benefit of more resistance and damage but that's gear cap. Has been since One Tamriel.

CaffeinatedMayhem

jecks33 wrote: »

you don't like carries?

So, when the CP player runs though the dungeon without waiting for lower level groupmates here's what happens: (assuming 1 rude CP player and 3 lowbies)

1 - All quest objectives will be failed. Even if the CP player doesn't have the quest, many dungeon quests will advance the quest markets based on the farthest progress in the dungeon.

2 - Any boss that the CP player kills will not count for the lower level players, nor will they get loot, if they were out of range (name grayed out in the group list)

3 - Pledge will not be considered complete because the group member didn't get credit for the boss kills.

So, it's not a "carry" - more like getting screwed over by a rude fetcher.

Kingslayer513

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

you don't like carries?

So, when the CP player runs though the dungeon without waiting for lower level groupmates here's what happens: (assuming 1 rude CP player and 3 lowbies)

1 - All quest objectives will be failed. Even if the CP player doesn't have the quest, many dungeon quests will advance the quest markets based on the farthest progress in the dungeon.

2 - Any boss that the CP player kills will not count for the lower level players, nor will they get loot, if they were out of range (name grayed out in the group list)

3 - Pledge will not be considered complete because the group member didn't get credit for the boss kills.

So, it's not a "carry" - more like getting screwed over by a rude fetcher.

This is a ZOS problem though, and one that they've fixed in the new DLC dungeons but haven't bothered to go back and fix with the older dungeons.

Quest objectives should auto advance when moving beyond checkpoints such as boss kills. Completing the final boss should always complete the quest.
The pledge should only require killing the final boss.

This is what ZOS did with the new dungeons and it works great. So complain to ZOS for not implementing it in the older dungeons. Quite frankly it is bad game design to not account for the randomness of the random group finder in the quest/pledge design.

imno007b14_ESO

I only object to vet players in normal dungeons when they queue for pug groups and then they do constant dp checks and rage quit without explanation when they decide that others aren't pulling their weight. If they want to group only with people who know what they're doing, they're in the wrong place.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

This is a ZOS problem though, and one that they've fixed in the new DLC dungeons but haven't bothered to go back and fix with the older dungeons.
.

So, complain to ZOS because you're inconsiderate of your groupmates? Sadly, that's considered an extraneous ticket or I gladly would.

THanks to all the pledge groups that rush ahead and caused my slow tank self to miss gear in Vaults of Madness!

Shadesofkin

I get where you're coming from, and I feel it, but at the end of the day, that would screw out veteran players who aren't there to just quickly grind it out, and better if 10000 guilty go free than an innocent suffer :P

Athan1

Unfortunately it is not possible to enjoy the story in dungeons or trials when pugging. Try solo or with friends.