In those 4 people dungeons roles doesn't really matter in my opinion, you can easily beat them with 4 DD or 3 DD+Healer. Tanks are just not needed for them.
In those 4 people dungeons roles doesn't really matter in my opinion, you can easily beat them with 4 DD or 3 DD+Healer. Tanks are just not needed for them.
MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »IMO here is a simple solution to ensure you get someone that is somewhat of a tank and healer.
To select the tank role the player has to have at minimum 3 heavy pieces of armor, must have sword & shield equipped on one of their bars with the taunt skill as an ability. If a player does not meet these requirements they cannot select tank as a role to q into content.
To select the role of healer player has to have the resto staff equipped on one of their bars and at least one ability from the resto staff line to Q as a healer.
If you Q and than go to remove your weapon that allows you to select the support role while waiting for the Q you are removed from the Q instantly. If you get into the Q you cannot swap out your support weapon and ability that allowed you to Q until you complete the dungeon or quit the dungeon.
I have seen this in other games and doing this improved the player experience in dungeons. I recommend this to ensure players don't abuse the Q to simply get into content quicker. This will decrease how fast a Q will pop for damage dealers but it will improve random dungeon runs for people who are not able to preform a group.
CleymenZero wrote: »MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »IMO here is a simple solution to ensure you get someone that is somewhat of a tank and healer.
To select the tank role the player has to have at minimum 3 heavy pieces of armor, must have sword & shield equipped on one of their bars with the taunt skill as an ability. If a player does not meet these requirements they cannot select tank as a role to q into content.
To select the role of healer player has to have the resto staff equipped on one of their bars and at least one ability from the resto staff line to Q as a healer.
If you Q and than go to remove your weapon that allows you to select the support role while waiting for the Q you are removed from the Q instantly. If you get into the Q you cannot swap out your support weapon and ability that allowed you to Q until you complete the dungeon or quit the dungeon.
I have seen this in other games and doing this improved the player experience in dungeons. I recommend this to ensure players don't abuse the Q to simply get into content quicker. This will decrease how fast a Q will pop for damage dealers but it will improve random dungeon runs for people who are not able to preform a group.
That doesn't work. Good tanks will tank in medium sometimes.
I'm not even a good tank and I tank vDSA in medium with alkosh on the body and backbar perfected Olori-memes. SO So far, 38.9k with 8 deaths is our best and one of em is CP 400 something. To be fair he's a console transfer and a pretty good player also but yeah, then heavy armor requirement isn't a good criteria.
Health isn't either. If you want 30k and a guy can do an amazing job with 25k health, it would be stupid to prevent that and finally, SnB is not an absolute req for tanking either. I've seen ice staff and resto backbar builds work pretty well.
It's hard to say what criteria would work but a taunt would be a good start.
MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »A tank that isn't using the taunt from the Sword and Shield line isn't helping their group as they are not maximizing the group debuff. They are making content harder. That is why I said they need the taunt with Sword and Shield. Having that along with the debuff that is typically used on a staff really makes bosses die faster in content.
What debuff are you getting from snb taunt that you can't get from other sources? A Necro tank can aoe major breach and fracture. Mag dmg/healers usually slot the destro staff breach and stam players can slot fracture into a build. This is 4 man pugs we're talking about. You want a buff/debuff? Be prepared to do it yourself. If you go in expecting full raid buffs/debuffs then you better slot all of them yourself, because reliance on 3 other random players with different ideas of what a role is/should do and how to play is... Random at best.MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »CleymenZero wrote: »MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »IMO here is a simple solution to ensure you get someone that is somewhat of a tank and healer.
To select the tank role the player has to have at minimum 3 heavy pieces of armor, must have sword & shield equipped on one of their bars with the taunt skill as an ability. If a player does not meet these requirements they cannot select tank as a role to q into content.
To select the role of healer player has to have the resto staff equipped on one of their bars and at least one ability from the resto staff line to Q as a healer.
If you Q and than go to remove your weapon that allows you to select the support role while waiting for the Q you are removed from the Q instantly. If you get into the Q you cannot swap out your support weapon and ability that allowed you to Q until you complete the dungeon or quit the dungeon.
I have seen this in other games and doing this improved the player experience in dungeons. I recommend this to ensure players don't abuse the Q to simply get into content quicker. This will decrease how fast a Q will pop for damage dealers but it will improve random dungeon runs for people who are not able to preform a group.
That doesn't work. Good tanks will tank in medium sometimes.
I'm not even a good tank and I tank vDSA in medium with alkosh on the body and backbar perfected Olori-memes. SO So far, 38.9k with 8 deaths is our best and one of em is CP 400 something. To be fair he's a console transfer and a pretty good player also but yeah, then heavy armor requirement isn't a good criteria.
Health isn't either. If you want 30k and a guy can do an amazing job with 25k health, it would be stupid to prevent that and finally, SnB is not an absolute req for tanking either. I've seen ice staff and resto backbar builds work pretty well.
It's hard to say what criteria would work but a taunt would be a good start.
A tank that isn't using the taunt from the Sword and Shield line isn't helping their group as they are not maximizing the group debuff. They are making content harder. That is why I said they need the taunt with Sword and Shield. Having that along with the debuff that is typically used on a staff really makes bosses die faster in content.
My recommendation is around improving the Qing process for dungeons and nothing to do with trials. So an adjustment could be made around the role but when Qing if you don't meet the requirements it should state what you need to Q as said role.
Lock tanks to sword and shield problem solved.
I know that doesn't mean they use the right skills, but who wanna dps with sword and shield?
DigitalHype wrote: »Crowdsource a silent "quality of role" ranking system 1-5 (1 worst. 5 best at each role).
the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm sure the actual implementation is harder than I'm going to make it sound, but in my mind the solution has the following steps:
1) Log combat in dungeons
2) Add a specific option to report someone for an inappropriate role when you kick them.
3) If the kick vote passes, automatically review the log for things like the number of times taunt was used, or total effective HP (accounting for mitigation) for tanks; the amount of healing done for healers, or the amount of damage done for DPS.
4) If, based on the review, someone was kicked by their group for queuing inappropriately, and was obviously not performing the role they queued for, give them a 24-hour, account-wide, ban on queuing for that role in the group finder.
5) Increase the ban duration for repeat offenses.
MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »CleymenZero wrote: »MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »IMO here is a simple solution to ensure you get someone that is somewhat of a tank and healer.
To select the tank role the player has to have at minimum 3 heavy pieces of armor, must have sword & shield equipped on one of their bars with the taunt skill as an ability. If a player does not meet these requirements they cannot select tank as a role to q into content.
To select the role of healer player has to have the resto staff equipped on one of their bars and at least one ability from the resto staff line to Q as a healer.
If you Q and than go to remove your weapon that allows you to select the support role while waiting for the Q you are removed from the Q instantly. If you get into the Q you cannot swap out your support weapon and ability that allowed you to Q until you complete the dungeon or quit the dungeon.
I have seen this in other games and doing this improved the player experience in dungeons. I recommend this to ensure players don't abuse the Q to simply get into content quicker. This will decrease how fast a Q will pop for damage dealers but it will improve random dungeon runs for people who are not able to preform a group.
That doesn't work. Good tanks will tank in medium sometimes.
I'm not even a good tank and I tank vDSA in medium with alkosh on the body and backbar perfected Olori-memes. SO So far, 38.9k with 8 deaths is our best and one of em is CP 400 something. To be fair he's a console transfer and a pretty good player also but yeah, then heavy armor requirement isn't a good criteria.
Health isn't either. If you want 30k and a guy can do an amazing job with 25k health, it would be stupid to prevent that and finally, SnB is not an absolute req for tanking either. I've seen ice staff and resto backbar builds work pretty well.
It's hard to say what criteria would work but a taunt would be a good start.
A tank that isn't using the taunt from the Sword and Shield line isn't helping their group as they are not maximizing the group debuff. They are making content harder. That is why I said they need the taunt with Sword and Shield. Having that along with the debuff that is typically used on a staff really makes bosses die faster in content.
My recommendation is around improving the Qing process for dungeons and nothing to do with trials. So an adjustment could be made around the role but when Qing if you don't meet the requirements it should state what you need to Q as said role.
Curtdogg47 wrote: »Part of the problem is people don’t want to wait hours to do a dungeon. But honestly if you want a decent group join a guild for it. Don’t PUG and expect it to be a optimal.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Crowdsource a silent "quality of role" ranking system 1-5 (1 worst. 5 best at each role).
So everyone should be "evaluated" and "policed" by everyone so that a few angry selfish can get what they want in the group finder and not do what it takes to get integrated in a guild or in a group of friends ?
Seriously... ?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DigitalHype wrote: »Crowdsource a silent "quality of role" ranking system 1-5 (1 worst. 5 best at each role).
So everyone should be "evaluated" and "policed" by everyone so that a few angry selfish can get what they want in the group finder and not do what it takes to get integrated in a guild or in a group of friends ?
Seriously... ?
DigitalHype wrote: »Yes. Seriously.
MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »I suggest to make special report for inappropriate role, so every player in dungeon can report for it. If player get 10 reports he can't search for dungeon for 24 hours. This can be a 1st step as a cardinal solution
You could still implement the skill check at que time though. If someone swaps out of the skill once the dungeon starts, at least you know that they have access to it to put back on. No who ques tank or healer could say "I don't have a Taunt/Heal"
Grandchamp1989 wrote: »There's such an easy system to allow flex builds while also not ruining for the group that qued correctly.
It would literally take the fake quer 1 minute to adapt to these simple rules:
Healer:
Must have atleast 2 AOE healing spells equipped
Tank:
Must have a taunt equipped and 20k health minimum (that is LOW and can easily be achieved by eating 1 food)
It would leave a huge gab for flex builts, absolutely huge while making sure the guy going in got the minimum requirements covered for a PUG run.
If people don't want to keep it that way, then it would take them another 30 seconds, at most, to change 1-2 skills on their bar back to its original set up.
willjones1122 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm sure the actual implementation is harder than I'm going to make it sound, but in my mind the solution has the following steps:
1) Log combat in dungeons
2) Add a specific option to report someone for an inappropriate role when you kick them.
3) If the kick vote passes, automatically review the log for things like the number of times taunt was used, or total effective HP (accounting for mitigation) for tanks; the amount of healing done for healers, or the amount of damage done for DPS.
4) If, based on the review, someone was kicked by their group for queuing inappropriately, and was obviously not performing the role they queued for, give them a 24-hour, account-wide, ban on queuing for that role in the group finder.
5) Increase the ban duration for repeat offenses.
Who is going to review it? Think of all the false reports that the devs would have to sift through to find the one that might have actually q'd as a fake. Who sets the requirements? Does it vary by dungeon/fight mechanics/level of player or is it a standard across all? What if it's an inexperienced player who queued up for the right role but was just learning to play in harder content?
I know you said it would be harder than you made it sound in your post but I'm not even sure it would be feasible from a personnel standpoint. They would have to dedicate resources (people to review the complaints) to something that really isn't an issue for them monetarily.
willjones1122 wrote: »the1andonlyskwex wrote: »I'm sure the actual implementation is harder than I'm going to make it sound, but in my mind the solution has the following steps:
1) Log combat in dungeons
2) Add a specific option to report someone for an inappropriate role when you kick them.
3) If the kick vote passes, automatically review the log for things like the number of times taunt was used, or total effective HP (accounting for mitigation) for tanks; the amount of healing done for healers, or the amount of damage done for DPS.
4) If, based on the review, someone was kicked by their group for queuing inappropriately, and was obviously not performing the role they queued for, give them a 24-hour, account-wide, ban on queuing for that role in the group finder.
5) Increase the ban duration for repeat offenses.
Who is going to review it? Think of all the false reports that the devs would have to sift through to find the one that might have actually q'd as a fake. Who sets the requirements? Does it vary by dungeon/fight mechanics/level of player or is it a standard across all? What if it's an inexperienced player who queued up for the right role but was just learning to play in harder content?
I know you said it would be harder than you made it sound in your post but I'm not even sure it would be feasible from a personnel standpoint. They would have to dedicate resources (people to review the complaints) to something that really isn't an issue for them monetarily.