[PC EU] Trader swap failed. Please remember u23 fiasco and act quick

Eyllora

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for your patience today while we worked through everything. For visibility, the issue that occurred yesterday where the incorrect guilds appeared to win guild traders happened because there was a gap in time between when winners of a guild trader were selected, and when the winners were actually applied. This means some guilds were able to illegitimately win a trader during that gap, rather than the trader going to the real winner.

This Wednesday during our scheduled maintenance, we’re going to swap out the owners of all guild traders on PC EU to the correct guilds that won the bid, and refund everyone’s gold – both the winners and those who accidentally won. We’re also working on a fix to prevent this from happening in the future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I just wanted to point out that some trading spot where still "unhired" on Monday morning. I happened to step on 2 of them in Orsinium, maybe there were others. That is a huge gap you seem to talk about, between swap and attribution to the correct guild, like over 12 hours.
Unless nobody bid on these traders, which I fairly doubt considering the war going on for trading spots, since multi-bidding.
Anyway, I guess someone should check : maybe there is a bug in the bug in the forest of your unsolved bugs, who knows...

Isaura

ah well, If you're not in a rush to fix it i'm not in a rush to play. It's not like if the june login rewards were worth it anyway

Tandor

Freezbeez wrote: »

Wednesday, I hope it won't be around 8pm.
we will already have to undergo maintenance every Monday and lose a day of sales, so our weeks on the EU server are only 6 days. Eventually we may lose only our Tuesday.
This game is superb and the community is magical, pay attention to your working tool and communicate in a more human way it is a general request.

Wednesday's scheduled patch maintenance has been listed at the top of the forum for several days now, and a post was made on 29th May explaining that Monday's normal downtime was being put back to Wednesday this week to give them more time to implement the necessary fixes.

dhboy123

Isaura wrote: »

ah well, If you're not in a rush to fix it i'm not in a rush to play. It's not like if the june login rewards were worth it anyway

So true, utter crap.

MKintr

All this confusion here. I think it just happened because they put the new kiosks from Western Skyrim in their system and messed it up completely. It's not a bug, just shameful human failure.

Dracane

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

This fiasco is for at least 2 good, long-lived EU trading guilds that I know of the last nail on the coffin - they are closing.

They are being dramatic. The Morgul's are swimming in gold, but act as though they were always on the brink in front of their members to provoce donations on top of the millions they already suck out of them from sales.

Do not be fooled by the drama kings and queens, they have more than enough money. They just hope to squeeze another milli or 2 out of you members.

Tandor

Guilds open and close in MMOs all the time, yet we're always expected to believe that when members don't log in for a day or two, or a guild closes, that heralds the death of that MMO in particular and the genre in general. 'Twas ever thus.

Nairinhe

It's either big and old guild, or a guild that gets killed by several days without a trader. I don't think it can be both.

JN_Slevin

Dracane wrote: »

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

This fiasco is for at least 2 good, long-lived EU trading guilds that I know of the last nail on the coffin - they are closing.

They are being dramatic. The Morgul's are swimming in gold, but act as though they were always on the brink in front of their members to provoce donations on top of the millions they already suck out of them from sales.

Do not be fooled by the drama kings and queens, they have more than enough money. They just hope to squeeze another milli or 2 out of you members.

Why don't you try making a guild yourself if its so easy?

ZeroXFF

AlyennahsCrafting wrote: »

Isaura wrote: »

Plenty of guild leaders thought it was funny to grab a trader for 10k, "yay my guild finally has a vendor now", well that's cute but what's the point exactly if you have nothing to sell?

I came across a trader with a grand total of 5 items to sell. Five! What's the point of that? So there is certainly demand for more traders, but by how much, I don't know. Maybe twice as many traders would suffice?

Nobody expected this to happen, so there would actually be a lot more to sell if those guilds could reliably get a trader at a price they can afford. If my trials guild had a trader, I wouldn't be in a trading guild to begin with, so my entire contribution would be moved. But nobody does that just for a week to move everything back a week later.

Also, this wouldn't be a problem at all if the crappy trader system was replaced by a proper global trader, ideally something along the lines of what is implemented in GW2. They manage to make it faster and more reliable than individual traders in ESO, ZOS could learn a thing or two from them.

Hurbster

Yes my guild is showing as owning a trader in the Hollow City. When I go there the trader is owned by a different guild.

silvereyes

Dracane wrote: »

They are being dramatic. [They] ... are swimming in gold, but act as though they were always on the brink in front of their members to provoce [sic] donations on top of the millions they already suck out of them from sales.

You do know that guild trader bids and guild trader taxes are specifically designed by the ZOS systems team as a gold sink, right? Yes, the whole game is swimming in gold as more and more faucets get turned on and more and more players join. That gold all has to exit the game somewhere, lest all gold get devalued to the point of worthlessness. Aside from a few high-ticket items like the golden vendor and lux furniture vendor wares, there just aren't that many large, autonomous gold sinks in the game.

While true that there's nothing obligating a GM to put the guild cut back into trader bids, trader prices are such ever since gold selling ... *cough* ... ahem ... Crown store gifting was introduced officially into the game, that any guild that doesn't put their taxes back into bids will not have a consistent trader.

I understand being upset that so many taxes pass through the hands of such a small player base, especially when guild bank gold visibility is disabled to counter bid spying. It's a system rife for abuse, and it admittedly has been abused for scams in the past. Those scams are usually by short-lived guilds, though, that dissolve once the perpetrator steals the gold, launders it, and then gets banned.

Whether you trust the good-faith of the officers of large guilds or not, the system as it stands is how ZOS designed it, and it's full of flaws. The guild-vs-guild nature of bidding leads to all sorts of stress on officers. After a year of these trader flip issues with no resolution, compounded with the performance problems of the game in general, and the added stress and uncertainty of maintaining multiple bids and needing to fight off challenges from all sides with the addition of multi-bidding, I don't see it as particularly dramatic for the officers to decide that they've had enough, for their own sanity.

None of this needed to happen.

To combat bid spying, ZOS could have simply placed a hold on bids and deferred withdrawing until the time of the flip. They decided to hide all gold transfer activity instead, killing transparency.

To combat rising bid prices, they could have changed their policy on Crown gift selling (not likely) or reworked or gotten rid of the bidding system and guild cut entirely and moved to any one of the dozens of systems suggested by the community. Instead, they put their work into multi-bidding, which only made the problems worse, and which started all the trader flip delays in the first place.

To improve accessibility, they could have increased the number of guilds per kiosk, or added a mini public trader to each zone with higher taxes. Instead, ZOS adds a handful of paywall-gated kiosks a couple times a year, which then dry up as people finish the content and move on.

To fix the trader flip delay exploits, ZOS should have introduced a lock on the buying of kiosks for 10k until after the traders were all awarded. That should have been done in an incremental after U23. Instead, here we are three patches later, with the same darned issues.

It's not being dramatic to opt-out of a system that has so many bad design choices engineered into its fabric, especially when there is continued evidence that the problem is getting worse, not better.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Cani wrote: »

Why don't you try making a guild yourself if its so easy?

Why did you make FIVE guilds yourself (not ONE, but FIVE, according to your sig) if it's such an awful and unthankful burden ?

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

I think it's important that people do make a cut when it's starting to become frustrating. this game should be fun.

^this^

Blame it on ZOS, on members, on the weather or on whatever : the moment things are getting "too much" and the bottom line is boredom, fatigue and/or frustration, it's time to let go. People with power/responsibilities won't let go that easily. They think they're not replaceable, and that they simply need and deserve more thanks and more recognition.
But the truth is : no amount of thanks and recognition will ever compensate a burnout feeling.
And while these situations are often complicated in real life, they are very easy to solve in the context of a game, because nothing matters in a game. LEAVE ! Drop your responsibilites. Either someone else will take over and your guild will survive happily, or your guild will fall apart and other guilds will come up.
It doesn't mean that noone is conscious about the work and involvement of GMs. It simply means that it's OK to let go.

So now we've had 3 days without a trader and the rest of the week with our regular traders and the bids refunded. Is that a reason for quitting ? Frankly, no. Is the sky falling ? Of course not. Has ZOS "failed" ? Everyone will have their own judgement. But people quitting over this, while doing the right thing, have other reasons than this little tiny incident. They're tired, that's all. And, as much as it may hurt them to hear it : they'll be (easily) replaced.

Gythral

Time for ZOS to resolve all the problems...
only 1, yes one, change needed

but it'll never happen, as no-one has the power to to do it!

JN_Slevin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

Why don't you try making a guild yourself if its so easy?

Why did you make FIVE guilds yourself (not ONE, but FIVE, according to your sig) if it's such an awful and unthankful burden ?

Alright lets do this.

1. I did not. Just because i (help) lead them does not mean i made them.
2. I never said its "such an awful and unthankful burden". I love it. Otherwise i wouldn't do it.
3. I don't think its easy. If it were easy it would be boring. It is time consuming and sometimes frustrating. Doesnt mean i have to hate it tho. I love being in those guilds. I try to have an open ear to anyone that wants to talk about anything. I (try to) answer every single Mail.
4. The fact that people (especially in here) think that GMs are "obligated to pay for their members" sickens me. Not because i "swim in Gold", but because a Guild is a Community. It is only as strong as their Members. Everyone should contribute to the wellbeing of said guild.
5. i NEVER asked anyone of my Guildees for Gold (beside our Contribution requirement). I always say, "it should be your choice to donate something. I wont tell you what to do"
6. Who do you guys think actually pays for the trader if something goes to *** and you got another Guild that tries to get that spot?
7. Who do you think makes ranks every week?
8. Who do you think goes recruiting?

Frankly its really horrible what some people actually think of things they do not know anything about.

Also since those claims are only made by people who have never seen the inside of a Guildbank, i just suggested he tries it and see how it goes.

Also, i was heartbroken on sunday evening. I was looking forward to this day for Months. And it could not have been worse. I am anxious every single week, not because "i am scared to get to rip my members off for a few more gold coins", but because i lterally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders.

JN_Slevin

Last thing from me:

sylviermoone wrote: »

It is not losing a bid that bothers me about this situation. The system is what it is, and anyone can lose a bid on any given week. For all the comments I’ve read in the past few days about how us “filthy, dirty, money-grubbing GM’s” are crying and upset about losing, I’ve seen no evidence of that. Sure, it doesn’t feel great to lose, and there is not a single person in my guild that takes a losing bid harder than I do. I have 500 members who donate and participate every week, and they trust ME to secure a high traffic location on their behalf. When we lose, and this is not the first time we’ve lost, it makes me feel sick. Not because of all the sweet sweet profits I’m going to miss out on personally; I don’t profit personally. It makes me feel sick because I have let my community down, even though we all know how the system works, and that losing on any given week is a real possibility.

silvereyes

Nairinhe wrote: »

It's either big and old guild, or a guild that gets killed by several days without a trader. I don't think it can be both.

This displays a fundamental misunderstanding about why trade guilds dissolve.

Large trade guilds aren't killed by a few days without a trader. They are killed by accumulated strain of years of their officers propping up a trading system that was never designed to scale to the game's current size, for the benefit of their guild communities. They are killed by ZOS neglecting the system's flaws or actively making things worse.

As @anitajoneb17_ESO so succinctly stated, they are just simply tired. The biggest, oldest guilds that have been serving the longest are precisely the ones most likely to be in that camp.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Cani wrote: »

Alright lets do this.

1. I did not. Just because i (help) lead them does not mean i made them.
2. I never said its "such an awful and unthankful burden". I love it. Otherwise i wouldn't do it.
3. I don't think its easy. If it were easy it would be boring. It is time consuming and sometimes frustrating. Doesnt mean i have to hate it tho. I love being in those guilds. I try to have an open ear to anyone that wants to talk about anything. I (try to) answer every single Mail.
4. The fact that people (especially in here) think that GMs are "obligated to pay for their members" sickens me. Not because i "swim in Gold", but because a Guild is a Community. It is only as strong as their Members. Everyone should contribute to the wellbeing of said guild.
5. i NEVER asked anyone of my Guildees for Gold (beside our Contribution requirement). I always say, "it should be your choice to donate something. I wont tell you what to do"
6. Who do you guys think actually pays for the trader if something goes to *** and you got another Guild that tries to get that spot?
7. Who do you think makes ranks every week?
8. Who do you think goes recruiting?

Frankly its really horrible what some people actually think of things they do not know anything about.

Also since those claims are only made by people who have never seen the inside of a Guildbank, i just suggested he tries it and see how it goes.

Also, i was heartbroken on sunday evening. I was looking forward to this day for Months. And it could not have been worse. I am anxious every single week, not because "i am scared to get to rip my members off for a few more gold coins", but because i lterally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders.

Just to make things clear : I do not endorse the opinions of people who think you (trade GMs) 're having a wonderful life ingame swimming in the gold you're ripping from your members. I don't just *think* it's wrong, I *know* it's wrong.
And I also wholeheartedly agree that all members shall contribute.

That being said : you did not answer my question (which is not a trap question, really). So please let me rephrase it : what do you LIKE/LOVE about being a GM (or similar role) in a trading guild ? Let alone in several ?

When I used to be a GM, which I didn't really choose but just "happened", like for so many of us, I was happy to be "someone" and not "just another player". And I enjoyed being in a power position to determine the "philosophy/spirit" of the guild. And I was enjoying that everyone talked to me. And I was happy to be in a central position for all kinds of info. And above everything else, I was touched that the members trusted me with their expectations.

Then over time I got tired and frustrated that none of them actually cared about MY expectations. Also, their expectations started to evolve and shift and their trust transformed into demands. And as much as I tried to take distance, I was feeling increasingly guilty and not legit because I could not fulfill everyone's expectations. And then (I re-use your phrasing because it's exactly on point : i literally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders ).

You're a different person than me so you may feel differently, of course. But in my opinion, if you truly felt "heartbroken" on sunday evening and were "dreading" that day for long, then it must have an underlying reason other than this little incident, which could have been much worse (remember the multi-refunds last time) and should not cause anything else but temporary annoyance. In my opinion.

JPS

I can give an example of what my guild has actually cost me...




EDIT: IS that even readable? Because I'm on 4K, and for me it isn't.... )

JN_Slevin

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

Alright lets do this.

1. I did not. Just because i (help) lead them does not mean i made them.
2. I never said its "such an awful and unthankful burden". I love it. Otherwise i wouldn't do it.
3. I don't think its easy. If it were easy it would be boring. It is time consuming and sometimes frustrating. Doesnt mean i have to hate it tho. I love being in those guilds. I try to have an open ear to anyone that wants to talk about anything. I (try to) answer every single Mail.
4. The fact that people (especially in here) think that GMs are "obligated to pay for their members" sickens me. Not because i "swim in Gold", but because a Guild is a Community. It is only as strong as their Members. Everyone should contribute to the wellbeing of said guild.
5. i NEVER asked anyone of my Guildees for Gold (beside our Contribution requirement). I always say, "it should be your choice to donate something. I wont tell you what to do"
6. Who do you guys think actually pays for the trader if something goes to *** and you got another Guild that tries to get that spot?
7. Who do you think makes ranks every week?
8. Who do you think goes recruiting?

Frankly its really horrible what some people actually think of things they do not know anything about.

Also since those claims are only made by people who have never seen the inside of a Guildbank, i just suggested he tries it and see how it goes.

Also, i was heartbroken on sunday evening. I was looking forward to this day for Months. And it could not have been worse. I am anxious every single week, not because "i am scared to get to rip my members off for a few more gold coins", but because i lterally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders.

Just to make things clear : I do not endorse the opinions of people who think you (trade GMs) 're having a wonderful life ingame swimming in the gold you're ripping from your members. I don't just *think* it's wrong, I *know* it's wrong.
And I also wholeheartedly agree that all members shall contribute.

That being said : you did not answer my question (which is not a trap question, really). So please let me rephrase it : what do you LIKE/LOVE about being a GM (or similar role) in a trading guild ? Let alone in several ?

When I used to be a GM, which I didn't really choose but just "happened", like for so many of us, I was happy to be "someone" and not "just another player". And I enjoyed being in a power position to determine the "philosophy/spirit" of the guild. And I was enjoying that everyone talked to me. And I was happy to be in a central position for all kinds of info. And above everything else, I was touched that the members trusted me with their expectations.

Then over time I got tired and frustrated that none of them actually cared about MY expectations. Also, their expectations started to evolve and shift and their trust transformed into demands. And as much as I tried to take distance, I was feeling increasingly guilty and not legit because I could not fulfill everyone's expectations. And then (I re-use your phrasing because it's exactly on point : i literally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders ).

You're a different person than me so you may feel differently, of course. But in my opinion, if you truly felt "heartbroken" on sunday evening and were "dreading" that day for long, then it must have an underlying reason other than this little incident, which could have been much worse (remember the multi-refunds last time) and should not cause anything else but temporary annoyance. In my opinion.

Its hard to quantify what i like about it. Why does anyone lead any Guilds? I like to see "fruit to my labor" if that makes sense? The fact that a Guild gets better under my leadership gives me joy.

I love Mails that tell me that "You do a great job keep going". I like being appreciated? I like helping people out, i like to talk to people. Its really hard to put those things in wording.

"Dreading" is not the word i would use.
I was excited for this day. I love the system. Every single sunday evening i run around Tamriel and check who won what. This evening was supposed to be an unpredictable event, something new. And the reason i felt heartbroken was because there was no control over anything. It just was gone. Every little hype build up over the last Month was gone in a single second and noone could have done anything beside ZOS seeing the warning signs the weeks before.

Dont_do_drugs

JPS wrote: »

I can give an example of what my guild has actually cost me...




EDIT: IS that even readable? Because I'm on 4K, and for me it isn't.... )

This isn't really informing. Its just a sum of deposits. It doesnt balance deposit and removal.

igniz93

Imagine having a guild trading system in 2020. One that is even broken and needs days to be temporarily fixed. This is actually insane.

silvereyes

Tbh, at this point, I'm pretty tired of it all too. While I love my trade guild communities, the lack of basic in-game price comparison data tools and the time-consuming nature of shopping make it pretty cumbersome to work with.

I never thought I'd say it, but I'd honestly welcome an AH at this point, if it worked. Unfortunately, I have zero faith that ZOS would do a good job with it. They can't even handle awarding bids for a few hundred kiosks in a reasonable time, even with all the wonders of modern processing power. I shudder to think of the cluster they would make out of an AH that needs to churn through high volumes of small trades every second.

JPS

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

JPS wrote: »

I can give an example of what my guild has actually cost me...




EDIT: IS that even readable? Because I'm on 4K, and for me it isn't.... )

This isn't really informing. Its just a sum of deposits. It doesnt balance deposit and removal.

True... But it is a sum of MY deposits. Informing is exactly what it is. Proof it is not, and it was not meant to be that. But it is what I've put in and it all went to having a trader.

Dont_do_drugs

JPS wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

JPS wrote: »

I can give an example of what my guild has actually cost me...




EDIT: IS that even readable? Because I'm on 4K, and for me it isn't.... )

This isn't really informing. Its just a sum of deposits. It doesnt balance deposit and removal.

True... But it is a sum of MY deposits. Informing is exactly what it is. Proof it is not, and it was not meant to be that. But it is what I've put in and it all went to having a trader.

If I deposit my own gold and remove it again I'd easily get that number in that window as well. But hey, it's your nonproofing screenshot you're trying to use as a proof of... If my guild did 10m win and I am removing all for overview reason and I put back 8m for bid into bank, it looks like I donated 8m to the guild in that window, not balancing out that I actually took 2m. Actually some (a minor amount) gm were doing it that way, I do remember that. Well, it's just off topic. Just sayin'

Sturmfaenger

Dracane wrote: »

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

This fiasco is for at least 2 good, long-lived EU trading guilds that I know of the last nail on the coffin - they are closing.

They are being dramatic. The Morgul's are swimming in gold, but act as though they were always on the brink in front of their members to provoce donations on top of the millions they already suck out of them from sales.

Do not be fooled by the drama kings and queens, they have more than enough money. They just hope to squeeze another milli or 2 out of you members.

Your bitterness is misplaced in this case. I'm sorry you seem to have had bad experiences in your eso time. I wrote good and I mean good. The 'care for members and community and a good trading spot without weekly fees' kind of good.

Eyllora

Eyllora wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for your patience today while we worked through everything. For visibility, the issue that occurred yesterday where the incorrect guilds appeared to win guild traders happened because there was a gap in time between when winners of a guild trader were selected, and when the winners were actually applied. This means some guilds were able to illegitimately win a trader during that gap, rather than the trader going to the real winner.

This Wednesday during our scheduled maintenance, we’re going to swap out the owners of all guild traders on PC EU to the correct guilds that won the bid, and refund everyone’s gold – both the winners and those who accidentally won. We’re also working on a fix to prevent this from happening in the future.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I just wanted to point out that some trading spot where still "unhired" on Monday morning. I happened to step on 2 of them in Orsinium, maybe there were others. That is a huge gap you seem to talk about, between swap and attribution to the correct guild, like over 12 hours.
Unless nobody bid on these traders, which I fairly doubt considering the war going on for trading spots, since multi-bidding.
Anyway, I guess someone should check : maybe there is a bug in the bug in the forest of your unsolved bugs, who knows...

@ZOS_GinaBruno About this gap you were talking about, I just want to confirm that it wasn't a gap and that the swap just never applied.
Monday morning, as I said, some merchants were still free, so I hired one for my guild. If nobody would have bid on this guy, then I would still have it. It's not the case : I got a refund of the 10k and merchant belongs now to someone else.
If I insist on writing about it, it is to make sure that you guys have the correct information, because the one you communicate to us isn't actually. And I suppose it could be important for your dev to know about it, as I imagine that you wouldn't give us a wrong information on purpose, to minimize the failure of the swap.
So thanks in advance for sharing with dev team.

agegarton

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks for your patience today while we worked through everything. For visibility, the issue that occurred yesterday where the incorrect guilds appeared to win guild traders happened because there was a gap in time between when winners of a guild trader were selected, and when the winners were actually applied. This means some guilds were able to illegitimately win a trader during that gap, rather than the trader going to the real winner.

This Wednesday during our scheduled maintenance, we’re going to swap out the owners of all guild traders on PC EU to the correct guilds that won the bid, and refund everyone’s gold – both the winners and those who accidentally won. We’re also working on a fix to prevent this from happening in the future.

Hi @ZOS_GinaBruno - as this issue wasn't referenced in the patch notes, can I just ask for confirmation on behalf of us all, to ensure that everything went as planned today? Am keen just to be sure before I touch guild bank gold, etc.

Many thanks !

Arrodisia

Cani wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

Why don't you try making a guild yourself if its so easy?

Why did you make FIVE guilds yourself (not ONE, but FIVE, according to your sig) if it's such an awful and unthankful burden ?

Alright lets do this.

1. I did not. Just because i (help) lead them does not mean i made them.
2. I never said its "such an awful and unthankful burden". I love it. Otherwise i wouldn't do it.
3. I don't think its easy. If it were easy it would be boring. It is time consuming and sometimes frustrating. Doesnt mean i have to hate it tho. I love being in those guilds. I try to have an open ear to anyone that wants to talk about anything. I (try to) answer every single Mail.
4. The fact that people (especially in here) think that GMs are "obligated to pay for their members" sickens me. Not because i "swim in Gold", but because a Guild is a Community. It is only as strong as their Members. Everyone should contribute to the wellbeing of said guild.
5. i NEVER asked anyone of my Guildees for Gold (beside our Contribution requirement). I always say, "it should be your choice to donate something. I wont tell you what to do"
6. Who do you guys think actually pays for the trader if something goes to *** and you got another Guild that tries to get that spot?
7. Who do you think makes ranks every week?
8. Who do you think goes recruiting?

Frankly its really horrible what some people actually think of things they do not know anything about.

Also since those claims are only made by people who have never seen the inside of a Guildbank, i just suggested he tries it and see how it goes.

Also, i was heartbroken on sunday evening. I was looking forward to this day for Months. And it could not have been worse. I am anxious every single week, not because "i am scared to get to rip my members off for a few more gold coins", but because i lterally feel the weight of the expectations of them on my shoulders.

This. Some of these reasons are exactly why I stepped up to GM. It's a community and we all work together to succeed. I feel the guild's triumph as we make our sales targets each week, giving helpful tips, and I feel their disappointments when we don't. Why? Because I'm not above them looking down and capitalizing on them. I'm side by side with them farming, crafting, answering questions, fixing ranks, keeping member notes up to date, removing toxic members, ....., and putting almost all of my gold into bids to help each week.

After 2 weeks of tens of millions of sales losses in each of our guilds due to multiple maintenances and this vendor issue, we're low on gold. We weren't swimming in anything, but frustrations these last 2 weeks, as our guild members expressed their disappointments with game performance, and maintenance outages. Receiving 1 weeks worth of bids back does not make up for losses in sales that spanned over 2 weeks and it doesn't nearly restore player's faith that ZOS will fix this game.

Now, whether some players believe we're low on gold or not, it's up to them. Unfortunately, that's the reality of it. I don't run guilds for personal gains and no GM I'm in contact with does either. Saying they close shop because they are burnt out is an assumption at best. I GM to provide our guildies with a fun and caring place to play the content that makes them happy.

It's sad to see a few toxic forums warriors, most who rarely play the game, and have never run a trade guild by their own admittance in another thread, push others to believe such delusions. Why bait GM's with these fallacies? It's slanderous, and hateful how any player would spread such misconceptions, which have the potential to destroy safe and fun communities within the game. Wouldn't it be more productive to stay on the topic of the thread, which was about the server swap issues, rather than to bait players with personal questions, and spread misinformation, as well as assumptions around?

Best Regards and have fun all

Dont_do_drugs

But in all kindness Jutta, you just dont go to the forums and tell people, that you're low on gold as a gm. Most GM are overestimated anyways, talking about the funds. There is a lot of bragging going on as well, which keeps people from bidding them. I DO remember the "1,3 b gold, isnt much for me" on Black sunday v1 - hey, if its not a lot for you, why you (not you, Jutta) try to get away with the gold. :')