Update 26 Combat Preview

Katahdin

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

The real resolution is to split the stats for PvP and PvE. This way they could balance each environment as needed without the changes blowing the other side out of the water.

Has been said ad nausium.

Never going to happen

JusticeSouldier

@ZOS_BrianWheeler I'm seriously worried about invisibility granted with sprint.
Sprint on dk for example, than use Take flight into the pack of enemies into Brawler or Carve usage...
Or stamsorc/another class with Downbreaker into Carve..
I like all the stuff which breaks zergplay, but...
What it's going to be? Is it smart to make such thing?

Lord_Umbranox

Page 32... and there's still no reply form neither Brian nor Gilliam. I guess we should all accept this as an answer to our concerns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1hY1LJHIw

dwig

I expected better of them. Sad.

wills43b14_ESO

Every time I read a new set of patch notes my faith in ZOS as a game developer continuously falls. Idk how they continue to "miss the mark" and nerf all the things that were already bad and not focus on the things that are broken.


They ARE SO CONCERNED about skill gaps, but any suggestions to lower the skill gap are ignored. Their foolish attempt at the LA/HA changes failed miserably. Now they seemingly don't care as they're trying to increase it w/ Thrassian Stranglers, the new Vamp changes, and the continuously bad changes to Roaring Opportunist. It's beyond laughable at this point. Either spend some time actually THINKING about the changes you make and exploring the ramifications and how players will utilize them (basic theorycrafting)... and actually consult the class reps, or just give up. The changes are so poorly thought out at this point your already tarnished image is getting worse by the day.

wills43b14_ESO

I would PAY to go back to Wrathstone at this point (sure nerf magsorc too, I'm okay w/ it). I had complaints, but man it was nothing like it is today. It was the best the game ever felt to me. The events of the past year have just been one crap storm after another to game performance and play. We've SEVERELY changed metas 4 times now in one year.

mairwen85

Lord_Umbranox wrote: »

Page 32... and there's still no reply form neither Brian nor Gilliam. I guess we should all accept this as an answer to our concerns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1hY1LJHIw

If you ignore something long enough, does it just go away? My bet is that's their hope.

xaraan

Xorsius wrote: »

31 pages and still no response or update on the vMA weapons. ZoS are really hoping we just let it go it seems or are pretending not to hear any of the backlash.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community, so there is no real financial reason for them to care. And I guess that's all that matters.

MLGProPlayer

xaraan wrote: »

Xorsius wrote: »

31 pages and still no response or update on the vMA weapons. ZoS are really hoping we just let it go it seems or are pretending not to hear any of the backlash.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community, so there is no real financial reason for them to care. And I guess that's all that matters.

ZOS has shown through their actions time and time again that they don't care about their veteran players who have invested thousands of hours and dollars into this game. Attracting new players for a quick buck has been their priority for a few years now.

BennyButton

@ZOS_BrianWheeler You have sent such a clear message by ignoring this thread. Don't worry, we've all got it, loud and clear. and @ZOS_RichLambert I hope you're ready for the fallout from this.

MLGProPlayer

BennyButton wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler You have sent such a clear message by ignoring this thread. Don't worry, we've all got it, loud and clear. and @ZOS_RichLambert I hope you're ready for the fallout from this.

They don't give a ***. They're about to see a huge influx of new short-term players jumping on the Skyrim nostaliga train. That's enough to satisfy ownership.

Etrella

Lord_Umbranox wrote: »

Page 32... and there's still no reply form neither Brian nor Gilliam. I guess we should all accept this as an answer to our concerns:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee1hY1LJHIw

Darn you sir. My tears are falling from laughing and from daily evidence that this is actually what is probably like.

Etrella

Still laughing

mairwen85

xaraan wrote: »

Xorsius wrote: »

31 pages and still no response or update on the vMA weapons. ZoS are really hoping we just let it go it seems or are pretending not to hear any of the backlash.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community, so there is no real financial reason for them to care. And I guess that's all that matters.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community now. But this decision sets a precedent for future changes, and this is what irks me more than the clear disrespect of the immediate message. They are consciously setting the door ajar for this approach. I don't think it's acceptable now, nor in any imaginable future patch, and I want ZOS to acknowledge that and at the very least have the decency to address why this is an isolated case, if that is in fact what it is.

MLGProPlayer

mairwen85 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Xorsius wrote: »

31 pages and still no response or update on the vMA weapons. ZoS are really hoping we just let it go it seems or are pretending not to hear any of the backlash.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community, so there is no real financial reason for them to care. And I guess that's all that matters.

It screws over only a minor portion of the community now. But this decision sets a precedent for future changes, and this is what irks me more than the clear disrespect of the immediate message. They are consciously setting the door ajar for this approach. I don't think it's acceptable now, nor in any imaginable future patch, and I want ZOS to acknowledge that and at the very least have the decency to address why this is an isolated case, if that is in fact what it is.

I honestly think they only care about the "now".

We know that ZOS is working on a new MMO as we speak. Amazon is also pumping out 2 new MMOs. ESO's days are numbered, and I think ZOS knows this. I don't see this game getting meaningful updates beyond 2022, maybe even 2021. They're going to try and cash in on a surge of new players drawn in by the nostalgia of Skyrim and Cyrodiil (next year's chapter) and then call it a day.

Suddwrath

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert would you care to provide a reasoning as to why existing vMA weapons will not be upgraded? It's unacceptable, and quite frankly unprofessional, to not respond to the community regarding this when this discussion has now reached 32+ pages and you have not engaged in nearly 2 weeks.

If you can respond to someone within minutes of the original post to clarify that existing weapons will not be upgraded, then you can respond to the community's frustration and provide an explanation as to why that decision was made.

dwig

The lack of a response is unacceptable.

roflcopter

Can Brian Wheeler complete VMA or get a Flawless?

would love to see him live on twitch completing...










500 times... ya know to enhance his day to day eso'ing

MLGProPlayer

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

How can someone look at that counter and think "wow, I've done a good job"?

Sabretusks

So... hopefully the delay in response isn’t because something legitimately bad has happened to anyone at ZOS or their families. That said, if all is well (and hopefully it is) would someone up in Dev land please respond? I feel like 32 pages and 11 days since the last post kind of warrants some sort of response here.

Elsonso

Sabretusks wrote: »

So... hopefully the delay in response isn’t because something legitimately bad has happened to anyone at ZOS or their families. That said, if all is well (and hopefully it is) would someone up in Dev land please respond? I feel like 32 pages and 11 days since the last post kind of warrants some sort of response here.

I agree. I don't know what they are thinking. I am sure that everyone there behind the curtain knows that eventually someone is going to have to come in here and say that, yes, the no upgrades are intentional and they are not going to change it. That is, unless they have a better answer.

I am guessing that this whole work-from-home thing makes it hard to draw straws to see who gets the short one. Maybe they are running VMA and the lowest score has to do it. Best out of three.

MLGProPlayer

Elsonso wrote: »

Sabretusks wrote: »

So... hopefully the delay in response isn’t because something legitimately bad has happened to anyone at ZOS or their families. That said, if all is well (and hopefully it is) would someone up in Dev land please respond? I feel like 32 pages and 11 days since the last post kind of warrants some sort of response here.

I agree. I don't know what they are thinking. I am sure that everyone there behind the curtain knows that eventually someone is going to have to come in here and say that, yes, the no upgrades are intentional and they are not going to change it. That is, unless they have a better answer.

I am guessing that this whole work-from-home thing makes it hard to draw straws to see who gets the short one. Maybe they are running VMA and the lowest score has to do it. Best out of three.

Working from home has nothing to do with it. I am working from home and am still expected to respond to client inquiries. A lack of communication has been a recurring theme with this dev team.

BricksnLA

My point was also that. I have flawless conqueror in 3 characters. It doesn’t take me long to finish vma. But why do I have to do it again, when I could be doing the new content? What’s the reasoning for that?

jecks33

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno at this point i don't give a **** if my weapons will not be upgraded, i just want to know WHY?

I paid for the game on ps4 and on pc, i paid for all the expansions, i pay eso+ by 3 years, i WANT an answer!!

Elsonso

jecks33 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno at this point i don't give a **** if my weapons will not be upgraded, i just want to know WHY?

I paid for the game on ps4 and on pc, i paid for all the expansions, i pay eso+ by 3 years, i WANT an answer!!

It will be interesting to see what they say, if they say anything at all specific to the reason why.

My guess is that the answer touches these points...

1) The perfected weapons are considered by ZOS to be new weapons, not upgraded weapons
2) The people who have these weapons are experts at the content.
3) The content is easily repeatable and can be run as often as the player wants to.
4) The number of people who have these weapons, in the form that they want, is very small relative to the general population of the game.

My feeling is that people can argue at whatever points they want. Disagree, agree, counter, or whatever, but ...

In the end, it fits into the equation of whether it is the best use of developer and QA efforts to build and test this one thing, at the expense of not doing something else that might have a broader audience or be a more valuable effort.

Honestly, I think they should toss the players a bone with this one and just upgrade the weapons. However, my gut instinct is that this would be a charity measure on their part. They likely have plenty of justification, from their perspective, to leave them as is. They may not even have the time to do it before launch.

mairwen85

Elsonso wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno at this point i don't give a **** if my weapons will not be upgraded, i just want to know WHY?

I paid for the game on ps4 and on pc, i paid for all the expansions, i pay eso+ by 3 years, i WANT an answer!!

It will be interesting to see what they say, if they say anything at all specific to the reason why.

My guess is that the answer touches these points...

1) The perfected weapons are considered by ZOS to be new weapons, not upgraded weapons
2) The people who have these weapons are experts at the content.
3) The content is easily repeatable and can be run as often as the player wants to.
4) The number of people who have these weapons, in the form that they want, is very small relative to the general population of the game.

My feeling is that people can argue at whatever points they want. Disagree, agree, counter, or whatever, but ...

In the end, it fits into the equation of whether it is the best use of developer and QA efforts to build and test this one thing, at the expense of not doing something else that might have a broader audience or be a more valuable effort.

Honestly, I think they should toss the players a bone with this one and just upgrade the weapons. However, my gut instinct is that this would be a charity measure on their part. They likely have plenty of justification, from their perspective, to leave them as is. They may not even have the time to do it before launch.

Pretty much a nonsensical argument as described and discussed at length already in this and many other threads. They are already adding a new set of weapons to the game and reworking the drop tables for both norm and vet for how those will be received. It is less effort to upgrade the existing items in the DB (the base items, which will automatically affect every existing item), and add a new one to drop from norm. Either case is minimal work from a data perspective, the latter being even less.

QA: they will be testing and following whatever quality assurance procedures they have in place anyway to check the norm and vet drops whichever way they approach this. So effort in that case is untouched.

Come on, please, they do this every patch for monster sets and gear, even skills ffs... stop inventing excuses for them, they really don't need you to. I would rather hear their justifications than yours.

ZOS right now:

Elsonso

mairwen85 wrote: »

Pretty much a nonsensical argument as described and discussed at length already in this and many other threads. They are already adding a new set of weapons to the game and reworking the drop tables for both norm and vet for how those will be received. It is less effort to upgrade the existing items in the DB (the base items, which will automatically affect every existing item), and add a new one to drop from norm. Either case is minimal work from a data perspective, the latter being even less.

QA: they will be testing and following whatever quality assurance procedures they have in place anyway to check the norm and vet drops whichever way they approach this. So effort in that case is untouched.

Come on, please, they do this every patch for monster sets and gear, even skills ffs... stop inventing excuses for them, they really don't need you to. I would rather hear their justifications than yours.

It is really up to you what you want to believe.

ZOS knows why they are not doing this, and they have a really good reason for not doing it. I think that when they are silent, that often means that whatever reason they have would not really satisfy the players.

The reasons I give above are the best reasons that I can come up with that don't involve some conspiracy to deliberately annoy players, drive them away, focus on Crown Store, aliens, or some other such thing.

In the end, I think this came down to a deliberate business decision about how to allocate developer resources, and weapon upgrades were not above the cut line. This is probably one of a hundred things that were not above the cut line. The reasons for that are not going to make anyone happy.

The only remaining question that I have is whether, in response to threads like this, ZOS will decide to allocate people to write and test an upgrade that they can run during maintenance. This would probably be extra work, and possibly some other work would not get done, but they could certainly do it. If they have the time.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

Elsonso wrote: »

jecks33 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno at this point i don't give a **** if my weapons will not be upgraded, i just want to know WHY?

I paid for the game on ps4 and on pc, i paid for all the expansions, i pay eso+ by 3 years, i WANT an answer!!

It will be interesting to see what they say, if they say anything at all specific to the reason why.

My guess is that the answer touches these points...

1) The perfected weapons are considered by ZOS to be new weapons, not upgraded weapons
2) The people who have these weapons are experts at the content.
3) The content is easily repeatable and can be run as often as the player wants to.
4) The number of people who have these weapons, in the form that they want, is very small relative to the general population of the game.

My feeling is that people can argue at whatever points they want. Disagree, agree, counter, or whatever, but ...

In the end, it fits into the equation of whether it is the best use of developer and QA efforts to build and test this one thing, at the expense of not doing something else that might have a broader audience or be a more valuable effort.

Honestly, I think they should toss the players a bone with this one and just upgrade the weapons. However, my gut instinct is that this would be a charity measure on their part. They likely have plenty of justification, from their perspective, to leave them as is. They may not even have the time to do it before launch.

I think that's the problem, ZOS doesn't seem to grasp that it is the player perspective that they should be working from. At this point I think ZOS has fallen into the WoW Timeless Isle, Warlords of Draenor, etc hole where the developers were adamant that they were making a game they liked to play and if the players just understood this they would love the game too. That strategy didn't work out to well for WoW and won't work out for ESO.

MLGProPlayer

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Pretty much a nonsensical argument as described and discussed at length already in this and many other threads. They are already adding a new set of weapons to the game and reworking the drop tables for both norm and vet for how those will be received. It is less effort to upgrade the existing items in the DB (the base items, which will automatically affect every existing item), and add a new one to drop from norm. Either case is minimal work from a data perspective, the latter being even less.

QA: they will be testing and following whatever quality assurance procedures they have in place anyway to check the norm and vet drops whichever way they approach this. So effort in that case is untouched.

Come on, please, they do this every patch for monster sets and gear, even skills ffs... stop inventing excuses for them, they really don't need you to. I would rather hear their justifications than yours.

It is really up to you what you want to believe.

ZOS knows why they are not doing this, and they have a really good reason for not doing it. I think that when they are silent, that often means that whatever reason they have would not really satisfy the players.

The reasons I give above are the best reasons that I can come up with that don't involve some conspiracy to deliberately annoy players, drive them away, focus on Crown Store, aliens, or some other such thing.

In the end, I think this came down to a deliberate business decision about how to allocate developer resources, and weapon upgrades were not above the cut line. This is probably one of a hundred things that were not above the cut line. The reasons for that are not going to make anyone happy.

The only remaining question that I have is whether, in response to threads like this, ZOS will decide to allocate people to write and test an upgrade that they can run during maintenance. This would probably be extra work, and possibly some other work would not get done, but they could certainly do it. If they have the time.

There are no extra resources that would need to be allocated to this. Upgrading existing weapons would literally be a 5-minute job, no different than changing the stats on any other piece of gear.

Elsonso

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Pretty much a nonsensical argument as described and discussed at length already in this and many other threads. They are already adding a new set of weapons to the game and reworking the drop tables for both norm and vet for how those will be received. It is less effort to upgrade the existing items in the DB (the base items, which will automatically affect every existing item), and add a new one to drop from norm. Either case is minimal work from a data perspective, the latter being even less.

QA: they will be testing and following whatever quality assurance procedures they have in place anyway to check the norm and vet drops whichever way they approach this. So effort in that case is untouched.

Come on, please, they do this every patch for monster sets and gear, even skills ffs... stop inventing excuses for them, they really don't need you to. I would rather hear their justifications than yours.

It is really up to you what you want to believe.

ZOS knows why they are not doing this, and they have a really good reason for not doing it. I think that when they are silent, that often means that whatever reason they have would not really satisfy the players.

The reasons I give above are the best reasons that I can come up with that don't involve some conspiracy to deliberately annoy players, drive them away, focus on Crown Store, aliens, or some other such thing.

In the end, I think this came down to a deliberate business decision about how to allocate developer resources, and weapon upgrades were not above the cut line. This is probably one of a hundred things that were not above the cut line. The reasons for that are not going to make anyone happy.

The only remaining question that I have is whether, in response to threads like this, ZOS will decide to allocate people to write and test an upgrade that they can run during maintenance. This would probably be extra work, and possibly some other work would not get done, but they could certainly do it. If they have the time.

There are no extra resources that would need to be allocated to this. Upgrading existing weapons would literally be a 5-minute job, no different than changing the stats on any other piece of gear.

I do plenty of speculating, but even I know that this is not a "5 minute" job. It will take longer than that to just explain what needs to be done to the person doing the work in enough detail that they can go off and do the work. When this is all said and done, factoring in everything that has to be done, it is probably a couple days of work.