Update 26 Combat Preview

Elsonso

corvair62 wrote: »

Why did they unsticky this post? Please @ZOS quit trying to bury our concerns.

Because it is a preview thread for something that they have already published. It isn't like they deleted it. It still shows up in Recent and Participated when someone adds to it, and it is still on top in Combat & Character Mechanics.

silvereyes

A Brief History of Arena Weapons

2015-2019
ZOS: Great job defeating one of the game's most grueling super mega hard challenges!
Players: Thanks! We tried our best!
ZOS: As a reward, here is a random weapon that nobody wants.
Players: ... okay.
<100x repetitions later>
ZOS: Great job defeating one of the game's most grueling super mega hard challenges!
Players: ... please, make it stop ...
ZOS: As a reward, here is the exact super mega ultra weapon you wanted!
Players: ... no way! For real!?
ZOS: Yes, for real.
Players: Wooohoooo!!! I'm FREEEEE! I'm FREEEEE!
ZOS: Okay ... um ... don't you want to play again?
Players: Nope! Later suckas! I'm outta here and never coming back!

May 2020
ZOS: We want to standardize super mega ultra weapons from a 4.5 years ago to be more like our super mega ultra weapons from 2.5 years ago.
Players: Sure, whatever floats your boat.
ZOS: So, we're introducing a new line of "perfect" super mega ultra weapons to give to those who defeat grueling super mega hard challenges.
Players: Cool. What's new about them?
ZOS: They have Bluetooth and say "perfect"
Players: Um, okay. I don't really care about that, but whatever.
ZOS: We're also letting middling medium normal challenge winners have super mega ultra weapons from a 4.5 years ago now.
Players: Sweet. I'm sure they will be happy. So can I get a “perfect" Bluetooth upgrade kit?
ZOS: Don't be silly. You have the super mega ultra weapons from 4.5 years ago.
Players: So?
ZOS: That means you must only be worthy of earning a middling medium normal reward.
Players: But, I defeated the grueling super mega hard challenge over a hundred times already!
ZOS: Sorry, you'll have to go stand over there with the middling medium normal challenge winners for now until you can prove to us again that you are grueling super mega hard challenge material.
Players: but ...
ZOS: Shhhhh....
Players: but I ...
ZOS: Shhhhhh... ssshhhhh ... ssssshhhhhhhh ....

dkDolphino

So no one from ZOS has made a reply addressing our concerns? Well, well, well, isn't that swell?

JusticeSouldier

dwig wrote: »

If they actually added new content then I would be fine with going through it to obtain new weapons. They did not.

Veteran Maelstrom Arena will be exactly the same as it was when I obtained all of my weapons the first time, and Veteran Dragonstar Arena will be the same as it was when I obtained all of my Master's weapons.

Requiring us to run these again to acquire veteran rewards is unconscionable.

but, even if they added there something new i don't want to repeat that process even in light or lucky form.
rng is too frustrating garbage to fight against it.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno it's absolutly unacceptable to not upgrade (or exchange for free) weapons obtained in veteran arena automatically.
We got them in veteran mode? perfected ones will be rewards for same veteran arena? what's here even to think or consider about?
Such monkey business against playerbase is a reason to delete and forget eso!
Upgrade it please and don't even think to repeat such things in a future please.

Rylisin

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Your current VMA and DSA Weapons will not be automatically upgraded to Perfected versions.

I haven't touched the game in over a year because of the oceanic ping issues. Sometimes I really miss it, the atmosphere, my characters, and think... you know what, I might re download and catch up with old friends. See whats new!

Then I see stuff like this. And remember why I stopped. Yikes.

heaven13

The current state of the perfected weapons really calls into question why they won't upgrade the ones we have already earned.

A: Either perfected weapons are a worthy increase making them desirable, which would be understandable (still not acceptable, but understandable) why they would want everyone to farm them again.
~or~
B: The perfected weapons are literally just a trophy piece with a less than useful 2nd bonus, as is currently the case, and therefore there's no reason NOT to upgrade existing weapons except "for reasons".

It's not a good look.

silvereyes

I know it's always more helpful for ZOS to have constructive suggestions rather than demands, so in that spirit, I'd like to summarize some of the compromises I've seen and thought of, and discuss pros and cons.

First, let's boil the problem down to its essentials.

• ZOS thinks the perfected weapons need to be earned.
• Due to the uniquely bad RNG of arena weapon drops, earning them again involves hundreds of hours of gameplay
• The content needing replay to earn the weapons is old, and people are sick of playing it

So, what are some solutions and their pros and cons?

No-Compromise Option 1: Automatic Upgrades

Instead of introducing two new item ids for each arena weapon, they could simply change the existing arena weapon sets and names to be the perfected version, and undo whatever changes they made to the veteran arena loot tables.

Pros

• Easy to implement
• Respects players' play time, allowing them to enjoy new content

Cons

• The new weapons wouldn't be earned
• Some might interpret this option as setting precedent for demanding other automatic upgrades in the future
• Inconsistent with how new rewards have been introduced in the past

No-Compromise Option 2: Everything Needs Re-earned

This is the option that will happen if ZOS doesn't adjust course. Anyone wanting perfected weapons will need to run potentially hundreds of hours of old content, regardless of whether they've run it before.

Pros

• Easy to implement (the work is already done)
• Consistent with how rewards have been introduced in the past

Cons

• Doesn't respect players time
• Perceived as capricious
• Lost revenue due to frustrated players canceling ESO+ or deleting the game

So, those are the two no-compromise options. What are some of the in-between options that have been presented?

Compromise Option 1: Token System
This is a long-asked-for feature for arenas to improve RNG and make it less painful. Presumably, it would work similar to the way the Undaunted Coffer vendor would work, with the ability to earn currency by completing vet arenas that could then be spent on coffers with reduced RNG.

Pros

• The new rewards are all earned, consistent with past policy
• Respects players time better by reducing RNG
• Improves the experience of the arena for everyone, not just those who have run the arena before
• It's been done before with Undaunted Coffers, so there's a template to make development faster.
• Both Maelstrom Arena and Dragonstar Arena already have NPC merchants that could be used to distribute the coffers

Cons

• Involves a lot of new code
• Probably not enough time to implement before the end of PTS
• Redirects limited developer resources away from fixing bugs into feature development
• Depending on the number of tokens required, still would probably leave many players upset

Compromise Option 2: Perfected Upgrade Fragments
Players would be given a guaranteed perfected upgrade fragment when deconstructing perfected weapons. The perfected upgrade fragments could then be refined into a perfected upgrade booster that could be used to upgrade any normal weapon of the associated arena or trial to the perfected version.

Pros

• The new rewards are all earned, consistent with past policy
• Respects players time better by reducing RNG
• Improves the experience of earning all perfected weapons for both arenas and trials
• All the UI for deconstruction and refinement already exists, reducing development time.

Cons

• Involves a fair amount of data work to make new upgrade items for each kind of perfected set.
• Still involves some new programming work as well, to implement an "Upgrade to Perfected" menu option and the underlying event handler to perform the upgrade.
• Probably not enough time to implement before the end of PTS
• Artists may already be too busy finishing up assets for Greymoor to create new unique item art, although I suppose existing icons could be re-used.
• Depending on how many fragments are required, probably would still leave many players upset.

Compromise Option 3: Weapon Combination
Players would be given a new "Upgrade to Perfected" menu option for old vma and vdsa weapons. When selected, it would bring up a UI similar to enchanting, but instead of selecting glyphs, you would select a perfected vma or vdsa weapon to combine with. The weapon type (staff, shield, dagger, etc) wouldn't matter, so long as it was a perfected weapon for the same kind of arena.

Pros

• The new rewards are all earned, consistent with past policy
• Greatly reduces RNG, guaranteeing one upgrade per successful run.
• It's been done before, with enchantment, reducing development time.
• Probably the fastest time to develop, other than the no-compromise options.

Cons

• Still redirects programmer resources away from PTS bugfixes, although not as much
• Introduces new code that can only be used on deprecated item drops
• Sets a precedent for providing upgrade options for old gear in the future, which ZOS probably doesn't want to commit to.

Compromise Option 4: No-Death Perfected Drops
Veteran arena drops would remain unchanged. Perfected arena weapons would only drop from new, no-death completions (or some other difficult elite achievement, such as a speed run). Normal arena runs would have some reduced rewards from vet. Some options include:

• Dropping CP150 items
• Not giving guaranteed arena weapon drops, but only a chance at a drop
• Dropping a new nerfed version of the set ("diminished"?)

Pros

• The new rewards are all earned, consistent with past policy
• The problem of dealing with existing weapons is avoided
• Very easy to implement.

Cons

• Completing normal arenas becomes much less rewarding and/or frustrating
• Disappoints a huge number of players that have already been promised twice that full arena weapons will drop from normal arenas
• Only the most elite players will ever achieve the perfected versions, widening the power gap further.
• RNG becomes even more frustrating if not every run will end in a perfected drop, especially due to certain random "you lose" gameplay mechanics, like a poison spore spawning directly beneath you in vMA round 7.
• Some elite players that have already achieved no-death runs will still be angry at not getting upgrades
• Some programming work still required to implement the achievement logic for perfected drops, but probably feasible.
• Inconsistent with the way perfected/imperfect drops work in trials, although there are already inconsistencies within trial drops (e.g. perfected Asylum Sanctorum weapon drop conditions)

Conclusion
So, what's the right way to go?

Obviously, my favorite would be automatic upgrades. That option offers the best customer satisfaction for the least effort, and the only sacrifice would be adding a bit of inconsistency between this event and how they handle other new reward rollouts for existing content in the future.

Compromise Option 1: Token System and Compromise Option 2: Perfected Upgrade Fragments are probably not feasible at all to get done in time for Greymoor, so while either would be great additions to the game, they can probably be removed as viable options for consideration in the short-term.

Compromise Option 4: No-Death Perfected Drops seems like the worst of all worlds. It disappoints a larger subset of players by not getting the full arena weapon drop power or making an already bad RNG grind worse. It also does less to narrow the power gap in the game than other options.

Compromise Option 3: Weapon Combination seems to be best compromise option that retains the policy objective of requiring earning new rewards, while retaining customer satisfaction.

It's not without downsides, of course. It sets ZOS up for players expecting more upgrade options for deprecated gear in the future. Also, as a software engineer myself, introducing new code to add a feature that only applies to deprecated items that will never drop again feels icky. Everyone has to download the game, but only small proportion of the player population would ever be able to use the feature.

This could be mitigated however, by making the feature temporary, and messaging that it's a one-time special dispensation. If it were announced that the feature would be removed in a future patch, people would know they need to get on the ball and earn those new perfected drops to combine with their existing weapons. This would also serve to draw back players who are away from the game, since they won't want to miss out on the opportunity.

Please, please ZOS, consider implementing something other than what has already been announced.

Edit: added Compromise Option 4: No-Death Perfected Drops
Edit 2: added extra flavor around the pros of automatic upgrades and the cons for compromise options.

Elsonso

silvereyes wrote: »

I know it's always more helpful for ZOS to have constructive suggestions rather than demands, so in that spirit, I'd like to summarize some of the compromises I've seen and thought of, and discuss pros and cons.
Conclusion
So, what's the right way to go?

Honestly, these weapons have been serving their purpose for a long long time. My preferred option would be to "leave them alone" and not introduce Perfected anything for those arenas.

blkjag

Really this is the best way to go ^

Wonks

I've already run the vet arena content ad nauseum. I've earned my weapons. Arguments to the contrary are just obstinant trolling and fail to address the arbitrary nature of even adding 'Perfected' variants in the first place. The proper way to implement this change is to retroactively make the items that people earned from completing vMA/vDSA the same variants intended to now drop from that content. Nothing in vMA/vDSA has changed besides the loot, therefore it stands to reason that the loot we earned should be what changes.

Correct your mistake, @ZOS_BrianWheeler.

xaraan

silvereyes wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Make nMA drop CP150 weapons

The power difference between CP150 enchants and CP160 is so large, this isn't really a reward, is it? I think I'd rather have a CP160 crafted set.

what? no, CP150 MA weapons wouldn't be that huge of a difference, especially considering half the reason for using the weapons are the unique effects. No crafted set completed on the backbar would be stronger than a CP150 nMA bow adding stacks of damage every tick endless was ticking. Especially considering whatever benefit of that crafted piece would vanish when you bar swapped, but the MA weapon effect would not. Same for destro, etc.

And your other comment about no death only dropping perfected, there are other options like no sigil use as well. But I don't think the reward is anything broken that if you could not get would hamper you. But I can see why it can look like a scary option.

I'd also say, anyone that can't do vMA and is content with nMA to earn a weapon is not doing content where they would notice CP150/160 content. No matter what gear you earn, if you can't complete vMA, you aren't going to be on an end game raid team where people are sweating you over every little build detail.

It also created a tiered system where you earn something for each thing you accomplish.

silvereyes

xaraan wrote: »

Especially considering whatever benefit of that crafted piece would vanish when you bar swapped, but the MA weapon effect would not. Same for destro, etc.

Ah, good point. The enchant power difference isn't all that important on the back bar, I guess. Thanks for clarifying.

xaraan wrote: »

And your other comment about no death only dropping perfected, there are other options like no sigil use as well. <snip> But I can see why it can look like a scary option.

It's not so much that it's scary, but more that the existing vMA grind is bad enough. If anything, there should be options to reduce the grind, imo, not throw up more roadblocks or introduce a new, worse grind.

Katahdin

The only acceptable solution is to upgrade the weapons people currently have to perfected. Then add perfected to the vet drops and the current unperfected to normal if they want to give them out for that.

dwig

Tokens are a solution to a different problem. They probably *should* implement something like that to solve long grinds in ESO. However, the solution to the implementation of perfected Maelstrom and Master weapons is to upgrade for people who already earned them in vma or vdsa. There is absolutely no acceptable reason not to do this.

mairwen85

dwig wrote: »

Tokens are a solution to a different problem. They probably *should* implement something like that to solve long grinds in ESO. However, the solution to the implementation of perfected Maelstrom and Master weapons is to upgrade for people who already earned them in vma or vdsa. There is absolutely no acceptable reason not to do this.

Unfortunately we'll just have to accept that no reason matters. The fact the only words on this from zos have been pretty much, "just because", means that we're not getting reasons or justifications, because there are none - - and they're just going to sit with their fingers in their ears going lalalala in the hope we'll all just eventually shut up about it and give up. It's tiresome, draining, and ultimately pointless to continue the discussion when there's no one on the other end listening. Scan through the pages on this thread. We're all just talking to ourselves. No one at zos cares... They've made that clear. So the acceptable reason is that there is no reason, and that is how it is.

zyk

This kind of thing happens so often because enthusiast gamers are not their target audience. It's always the same shrug when we collectively dislike something.

It hurts ZOS because ESO had the potential to be far more successful than it is. For example, if AvA actually worked, I believe it would have been extremely successful. I think ESO has amazing untapped potential for endgame PVE too.

In 2014, PVP gaming was becoming mainstream and would attain heights few anticipated soon after. ESO was positioned to take advantage of that but management dropped the ball when the game was reimagined shortly after launch. In hindsight, I wonder if ZOS realizes the opportunity they missed.

They are continuing to miss opportunities. They have an easy opportunity to please both casual and enthusiast players, but inexplicably choose not to.

I'm definitely never grinding vMA again. Devaluing my vMA weapons just makes me less interested in ESO.

Asardes

The change to Thunderous Volley basically makes Endless Hail useless.

RaunHunter

It is not a question of whether they can upgrade it. They can. These speculations of "maybe the code doesn't allow it" is BS. They change the other sets all the time. No reason why this set is a special case that they can't touch.

The thing is, they don't want to. By giving the MA weapons through normal and downgrading the old ones to the imperfect version, they are hoping to reduce the DPS gap between those who had previously earned the weapons and those who did not. The negligible boost in the perfected version is evidence enough.

I'm all for bridging the large gap between the new players and the veteran ones. But this isn't the way to do it. Why? Because high DPS is more than just the weapon. This is a common misconception among the new players. They think, "if only I could have the vMA weapon, I will do as much damage as Alcast does." Not true. Take it from someone who thought the same and was proven wrong. The weapon helps, but it isn't the main secret. Even with the weapon, you will only be doing high DPS if you practice the rotation.

With this short-sighted decision, ZOS is going to *** off both the parties. Those who earned their vMA weapons are going to feel disrespected, for this is a complete disregard for the time they invested. And when the casuals get their hands on the MA weapon, the hard truth is going to dawn on them: that they are still underperforming even with the weapon; which is going to send them back to square one, complaining about the DPS gap. What will ZOS do then?

I mean, I don't understand. What's the harm in upgrading the already earned weapons, except for forcing the old players to re-grind 4-year old content?

It really is a shame.

The Uninvited

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

So, how much is the baseline Critical Resistance? Because it doesn't show on PTS...

iKillElves4Septims

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

redTechInc

Still no ETA on an response regarding your player's worries and fears?
@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

Pretty bold to not even react in the slightest way to your wrong-doings...

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts due to violating our rules involving baiting and bashing. Please keep your posts constructive and civil. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

gammelscroll

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

Battlespirit to 60 % lol. So the solo player that struggle to heal them self will struggle more. And sorc pet that heals for 40k hp will not be affected at all.
Nice focus zenimax. Keep bring good value to the game.
Why dont you look at the base healing in the game first. Those heal tjat are op in general. Instead of changing å random number from 50% to 60% .

xaraan

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

Battlespirit to 60 % lol. So the solo player that struggle to heal them self will struggle more. And sorc pet that heals for 40k hp will not be affected at all.
Nice focus zenimax. Keep bring good value to the game.
Why dont you look at the base healing in the game first. Those heal tjat are op in general. Instead of changing å random number from 50% to 60% .

I think it's more to do with differences in PvE and PvP and them needing to use battlespirit more intelligently. Instead of this handful of blanket nerfs/buffs, they should me sliding scales effecting health, healing and shields, so if you use an ability or gear that gives a small 1K or 2K shield it's not irrelevant after battlespirit. A tank going into pvp with 50K health should get no health bonus, but someone going in with 20K should, that would do more to balance the tankiness than just blanket nerfing every undaunted set that gives health or armor.

The softcaps they used to use at launch made the game a bit bland or boring, but in normal zos fashion, they can't just tune something down a little, it has to go all or nothing. They could make use of very mild softcaps to eliminate some of the problems in pvp without messing up things for pve by using battlespirit more effectively.

Q_Q

You are nerfing small scale only? Why? Why nerf solo players and not zergs, Zos? An answer would be nice. Thanks.

Letho2469

Q_Q wrote: »

You are nerfing small scale only? Why? Why nerf solo players and not zergs, Zos? An answer would be nice. Thanks.

Frankly solo players' interests should not be taken into consideration too much. This is an MMO and thus should be belanced around playing in a group. You should not be able to kill a whole army with just 4 people, at least not, if this army knows how to play.

BohnT2

Letho2469 wrote: »

Q_Q wrote: »

You are nerfing small scale only? Why? Why nerf solo players and not zergs, Zos? An answer would be nice. Thanks.

Frankly solo players' interests should not be taken into consideration too much. This is an MMO and thus should be belanced around playing in a group. You should not be able to kill a whole army with just 4 people, at least not, if this army knows how to play.

The army frankly has no *** clue what they are doing if they die to 4 players this or next patch.
A zerg of jellyfish could probably survive this patch if they'd just properly use crossheals.

Xorsius

31 pages and still no response or update on the vMA weapons. ZoS are really hoping we just let it go it seems or are pretending not to hear any of the backlash.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

xaraan wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

Battlespirit to 60 % lol. So the solo player that struggle to heal them self will struggle more. And sorc pet that heals for 40k hp will not be affected at all.
Nice focus zenimax. Keep bring good value to the game.
Why dont you look at the base healing in the game first. Those heal tjat are op in general. Instead of changing å random number from 50% to 60% .

I think it's more to do with differences in PvE and PvP and them needing to use battlespirit more intelligently. Instead of this handful of blanket nerfs/buffs, they should me sliding scales effecting health, healing and shields, so if you use an ability or gear that gives a small 1K or 2K shield it's not irrelevant after battlespirit. A tank going into pvp with 50K health should get no health bonus, but someone going in with 20K should, that would do more to balance the tankiness than just blanket nerfing every undaunted set that gives health or armor.

The softcaps they used to use at launch made the game a bit bland or boring, but in normal zos fashion, they can't just tune something down a little, it has to go all or nothing. They could make use of very mild softcaps to eliminate some of the problems in pvp without messing up things for pve by using battlespirit more effectively.

The real resolution is to split the stats for PvP and PvE. This way they could balance each environment as needed without the changes blowing the other side out of the water.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

gammelscroll wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

We’d like to take a moment to share a preview of combat updates coming with Update 26 (Greymoor). The full list of changes will be revealed with the patch notes next week, but for now we’d like to provide some insight on our goals. This update is primarily focused on reinforcing itemization standards, improving quality of life for werewolves, and a few adjustments regarding PvP balance. As many of you are already aware, the team recently experimented with some significant changes to Light and Heavy Attacks. We’d like to again thank everyone who participated in the off-cycle PTS test of those changes, and remind you all that those changes will not be included with Update 26. Today, we’ll be focusing on the other changes that will be appearing next week on the PTS for Update 26.

U26 not only has Vampire updates, but Werewolf updates as well! We want to keep the “in your face” action of the Werewolf and also want to add rotation options when you’ve transformed into this ferocious form. For example, Pounce now has a follow up attack afterwards that also has an execute scaled on Bleed. We’re also making adjustments to allow buffing and debuffing to give a sense of being a pack leader. Sustain for werewolves is also something we noted needs an adjustment, so Hircine’s Bounty now has some added functionality if you’re already at full health and don’t need the heal from the ability. We believe these changes will keep the Werewolf playstyle competitive and entertaining for all players!

About a year ago, we started our standardization pass and we’re finishing that off in U26 with Monster Masks/Shoulders. Remember standards aren’t written in stone, but we now have equal measures of power and performance from these 2 piece sets; some are having their 1 piece adjusted to better suit the function of the set. Valkyn Skoria, for example, now gives Spell Penetration rather than Max Health as this is a damage-based set.

Other sets are receiving functionality adjustments (damage values, trigger conditions, cooldowns, etc.) to follow their intended functionality based on their sourcing. A good example of this is Tremorscale: enemies hit by the damaging effect of this ability are no longer snared, but instead have their Physical Resistance reduced. To help with performance, some sets are having their “chance to proc” removed and instead now have a cooldown. Again, we’ll look at Tremorscale as an example: we are removing the proc chance from this set and increasing the cooldown damage. Note that because the cooldown is increasing, the damage is also increasing.

Continuing on itemization, we are also introducing Perfected Veteran Maelstrom and Perfected Dragonstar Arena weapons. This has been a long standing request by the players, and it finally brings these two arenas up to par with others that add Perfected versions. These are earned by completing Veteran mode in each of those arenas and will have additional bonuses much like other Perfected sets. Completing Maelstrom or Dragonstar Arena will now grant Blue versions of the non-perfected weapons from these arenas. In this pass, we are making a few adjustments to ALL Arena weapons to meet standards. One example of this is the BRP weapon set Spectral Cloak: this item set now increases your damage done and reduces your damage taken whenever you deal damage with Blade Cloak, rather than granting Major Protection for 3 seconds after casting. This fits the concept of Blade cloak as it deals with damage as well as protection.

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

Battlespirit to 60 % lol. So the solo player that struggle to heal them self will struggle more. And sorc pet that heals for 40k hp will not be affected at all.
Nice focus zenimax. Keep bring good value to the game.
Why dont you look at the base healing in the game first. Those heal tjat are op in general. Instead of changing å random number from 50% to 60% .

I think it's more to do with differences in PvE and PvP and them needing to use battlespirit more intelligently. Instead of this handful of blanket nerfs/buffs, they should me sliding scales effecting health, healing and shields, so if you use an ability or gear that gives a small 1K or 2K shield it's not irrelevant after battlespirit. A tank going into pvp with 50K health should get no health bonus, but someone going in with 20K should, that would do more to balance the tankiness than just blanket nerfing every undaunted set that gives health or armor.

The softcaps they used to use at launch made the game a bit bland or boring, but in normal zos fashion, they can't just tune something down a little, it has to go all or nothing. They could make use of very mild softcaps to eliminate some of the problems in pvp without messing up things for pve by using battlespirit more effectively.

The real resolution is to split the stats for PvP and PvE. This way they could balance each environment as needed without the changes blowing the other side out of the water.

This, a hundred times over. They can never coexist the way people want or expect them to.