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Playing a magblade is nothing but frustrating.
-
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Czekoludek wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
Yes, they do. Up to 10% from Merciless Resolve. I have trouble bursting a decent magicka nightblade. Other light armor classes drop very easily. But Nightblades just absorb everything somehow. And they have magicka major evasion with 1,3k resistences which is not considered minor resolve and ward. Nightblade is very passively tanky with little effort.
Only if they have a good healer. If you can't kill a nb who doesn't have healer support, your damage must be really low or blade is build for max defense and in that case, it will hit like mosquito. Mitigation is nothing if your healing is weak af.
I would not say that 64k magicka and 3,6k spell damage is a mosquito. Well yes, I still can't kill anybody on my own, but the stats are there in theory.
Trust me, a good nightblade who knows what they are doing, are very bulky. Many are trash, but some are near indomitable.
I'm having a difficult time believing you have 64k mag and 3.6k SD.
Ever heard of imperial physique?
Thats a bad argument, imp physique is niche and only works in ... well imp city. I could also argue that I can get up to 100k magicka through the buff in Elden Hollow. I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it.
Yes agreed. I am still having success with my little game time I do commit in BGs, but I see many of the issues you have outlined.
The class needs some care.1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that
Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 16, 2020 6:01PM0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Czekoludek wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
Yes, they do. Up to 10% from Merciless Resolve. I have trouble bursting a decent magicka nightblade. Other light armor classes drop very easily. But Nightblades just absorb everything somehow. And they have magicka major evasion with 1,3k resistences which is not considered minor resolve and ward. Nightblade is very passively tanky with little effort.
Only if they have a good healer. If you can't kill a nb who doesn't have healer support, your damage must be really low or blade is build for max defense and in that case, it will hit like mosquito. Mitigation is nothing if your healing is weak af.
I would not say that 64k magicka and 3,6k spell damage is a mosquito. Well yes, I still can't kill anybody on my own, but the stats are there in theory.
Trust me, a good nightblade who knows what they are doing, are very bulky. Many are trash, but some are near indomitable.
I'm having a difficult time believing you have 64k mag and 3.6k SD.
Ever heard of imperial physique?
Thats a bad argument, imp physique is niche and only works in ... well imp city. I could also argue that I can get up to 100k magicka through the buff in Elden Hollow. I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it.
My response was purely to Langston and his doubt about dracane's stats. It's quite well known that dracanr plays a magsorc with imperial physique on pceu.
But feel free to point out where in my comment I ever said nightblade isn't clunky.0 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 16, 2020 6:02PM5 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Czekoludek wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
Yes, they do. Up to 10% from Merciless Resolve. I have trouble bursting a decent magicka nightblade. Other light armor classes drop very easily. But Nightblades just absorb everything somehow. And they have magicka major evasion with 1,3k resistences which is not considered minor resolve and ward. Nightblade is very passively tanky with little effort.
Only if they have a good healer. If you can't kill a nb who doesn't have healer support, your damage must be really low or blade is build for max defense and in that case, it will hit like mosquito. Mitigation is nothing if your healing is weak af.
I would not say that 64k magicka and 3,6k spell damage is a mosquito. Well yes, I still can't kill anybody on my own, but the stats are there in theory.
Trust me, a good nightblade who knows what they are doing, are very bulky. Many are trash, but some are near indomitable.
I'm having a difficult time believing you have 64k mag and 3.6k SD.
Ever heard of imperial physique?
Thats a bad argument, imp physique is niche and only works in ... well imp city. I could also argue that I can get up to 100k magicka through the buff in Elden Hollow. I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it.
My response was purely to Langston and his doubt about dracane's stats. It's quite well known that dracanr plays a magsorc with imperial physique on pceu.
But feel free to point out where in my comment I ever said nightblade isn't clunky.
I dont play PC EU, so no its not well known to me. I also never said that you said that NBs arent clunky, however the thread is taking a "nerf NB" tone which is absolutely insane. I even said: "I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it."
Cheers.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »Czekoludek wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
Yes, they do. Up to 10% from Merciless Resolve. I have trouble bursting a decent magicka nightblade. Other light armor classes drop very easily. But Nightblades just absorb everything somehow. And they have magicka major evasion with 1,3k resistences which is not considered minor resolve and ward. Nightblade is very passively tanky with little effort.
Only if they have a good healer. If you can't kill a nb who doesn't have healer support, your damage must be really low or blade is build for max defense and in that case, it will hit like mosquito. Mitigation is nothing if your healing is weak af.
I would not say that 64k magicka and 3,6k spell damage is a mosquito. Well yes, I still can't kill anybody on my own, but the stats are there in theory.
Trust me, a good nightblade who knows what they are doing, are very bulky. Many are trash, but some are near indomitable.
I'm having a difficult time believing you have 64k mag and 3.6k SD.
Ever heard of imperial physique?
Thats a bad argument, imp physique is niche and only works in ... well imp city. I could also argue that I can get up to 100k magicka through the buff in Elden Hollow. I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it.
My response was purely to Langston and his doubt about dracane's stats. It's quite well known that dracanr plays a magsorc with imperial physique on pceu.
But feel free to point out where in my comment I ever said nightblade isn't clunky.
I dont play PC EU, so no its not well known to me. I also never said that you said that NBs arent clunky, however the thread is taking a "nerf NB" tone which is absolutely insane. I even said: "I honestly dont understand where this thread is going with its topic. NBs ARE clunky, NBs ARE the weakest class atm, theres no denying it."
Cheers.
Issue is there are only a handful of NBs left really. Most people have moved on, or play multiple characters and are saying NBs are weak.
Don’t believe me? Try making a nerf sorc post and see 100s of replies pile on about how you’re wrong.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 16, 2020 6:09PM2 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
I use an NB and its a mag one, but nice try. I say its good because it's bad for one skill to negate damage it shouldn't. Also, I don't have a problem countering it. I argued against the clip you show that claims he leaped after you cloaked. He leapt before and that's why he stood still and dumbfounded instead of continued moving before you even cast cloak. If you played other classes you would know exactly how and what to look for, but don't take my word for it. Take the game's which you pretend is wrong in an instance where no other desync is happening. Get real.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 16, 2020 5:58PM0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Czekoludek wrote: »[Quoted post has been removed.]
Yes, they do. Up to 10% from Merciless Resolve. I have trouble bursting a decent magicka nightblade. Other light armor classes drop very easily. But Nightblades just absorb everything somehow. And they have magicka major evasion with 1,3k resistences which is not considered minor resolve and ward. Nightblade is very passively tanky with little effort.
Only if they have a good healer. If you can't kill a nb who doesn't have healer support, your damage must be really low or blade is build for max defense and in that case, it will hit like mosquito. Mitigation is nothing if your healing is weak af.
I would not say that 64k magicka and 3,6k spell damage is a mosquito. Well yes, I still can't kill anybody on my own, but the stats are there in theory.
Trust me, a good nightblade who knows what they are doing, are very bulky. Many are trash, but some are near indomitable.
I'm having a difficult time believing you have 64k mag and 3.6k SD.
I am being carried by imperial physique.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Id like it if swallow soul got a slight buff in damage and concealed weapon got buffs2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Deathlord92 wrote: »Id like it if swallow soul got a slight buff in damage and concealed weapon got buffs
Agreed. A simple damage buff to Swallow Soul would not only help with securing kills, but also give a slight boost to healing — something most magblades struggle with.5 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Exactly I’m still tweaking my magblade I’m more of a stand my ground type I’m using dark cloak my sets atm spinners and bright throat pirate skel and chudan I can’t quite reach 10k swallow souls with major sorcery up and keep good recovery doing my head in I’m still making changes to sets keeping spinners tho penetration to important.Deathlord92 wrote: »Id like it if swallow soul got a slight buff in damage and concealed weapon got buffs
Agreed. A simple damage buff to Swallow Soul would not only help with securing kills, but also give a slight boost to healing — something most magblades struggle with.
Edited by Deathlord92 on April 17, 2020 12:11PM0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Deathlord92 wrote: »
Exactly I’m still tweaking my magblade I’m more of a stand my ground type I’m using dark cloak my sets atm spinners and bright throat pirate skel and chudan I can’t quite reach 10k swallow souls with major sorcery up and keep good recovery doing my head in I’m still making changes to sets keeping spinners tho penetration to important.Deathlord92 wrote: »Id like it if swallow soul got a slight buff in damage and concealed weapon got buffs
Agreed. A simple damage buff to Swallow Soul would not only help with securing kills, but also give a slight boost to healing — something most magblades struggle with.
A cost reduction on it would be welcome as well. Even using a Breton & a spell cost reduction glyph, my sustain feels like complete garbage compared to my Altmer magsorc. Honestly, magblades just feel inferior in every possible metric.5 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.
In theory yes, in praxis they can streak through you, stunning you, forcing you to switch direction and by then they couldve easily streaked 3x getting out of gap closer range. The other morph of streak hard counters projectiles making it impossible to interrupt dark conversion through either crushing shock or venom arrow. Again making it possible to streak several times and just use dark conversion to get magicka back.
Streak combines with dark conversion is the best escape skill in the game, followed by shade. Demanding more nerfs to cloak or being happy with its current situation is just biased and bad for the overall balance of the NB class.
PS. I also play a magsorc so I now the difference.1 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.
In theory yes, in praxis they can streak through you, stunning you, forcing you to switch direction and by then they couldve easily streaked 3x getting out of gap closer range. The other morph of streak hard counters projectiles making it impossible to interrupt dark conversion through either crushing shock or venom arrow. Again making it possible to streak several times and just use dark conversion to get magicka back.
Streak combines with dark conversion is the best escape skill in the game, followed by shade. Demanding more nerfs to cloak or being happy with its current situation is just biased and bad for the overall balance of the NB class.
PS. I also play a magsorc so I now the difference.
Never said anything about nerfing cloak here, just making a point that there is counters to streak. You are also forgetting that crushing shock is not a projectile and does not get affected by ball of lightning if the mechanics havent changed since before dk wings nerf.
It is also bad to compare an escape tool with multiple skills, combined. Streak and dark deal is not better than shade combined with cloak as you can literally disappear from 20 people chasing you if you are skilled enough. Something that sorc cannot do, because
1. You cannot stun everyone at same time with streak as streaking through them will leave you in the middle of the zerg.
2. Ball of lightning doesnt stop the crushing shock spammers or gap closing spammers.
All im saying is that there are more people using cloak counters than people using streak counters.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.
In theory yes, in praxis they can streak through you, stunning you, forcing you to switch direction and by then they couldve easily streaked 3x getting out of gap closer range. The other morph of streak hard counters projectiles making it impossible to interrupt dark conversion through either crushing shock or venom arrow. Again making it possible to streak several times and just use dark conversion to get magicka back.
Streak combines with dark conversion is the best escape skill in the game, followed by shade. Demanding more nerfs to cloak or being happy with its current situation is just biased and bad for the overall balance of the NB class.
PS. I also play a magsorc so I now the difference.
Never said anything about nerfing cloak here, just making a point that there is counters to streak. You are also forgetting that crushing shock is not a projectile and does not get affected by ball of lightning if the mechanics havent changed since before dk wings nerf.
It is also bad to compare an escape tool with multiple skills, combined. Streak and dark deal is not better than shade combined with cloak as you can literally disappear from 20 people chasing you if you are skilled enough. Something that sorc cannot do, because
1. You cannot stun everyone at same time with streak as streaking through them will leave you in the middle of the zerg.
2. Ball of lightning doesnt stop the crushing shock spammers or gap closing spammers.
All im saying is that there are more people using cloak counters than people using streak counters.
A hard counter is a strategy that utterly dominates another strategy, leaving no question of the outcome.
There are literally dozens of hard counters to cloak (i.e. multiple skills specifically designed to turn it off, all AOE abilities turn it off, and potions completely turn it off for 15 seconds).
There are no hard counters to streak as far as I know.Edited by Langeston on April 17, 2020 7:23PM3 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.
In theory yes, in praxis they can streak through you, stunning you, forcing you to switch direction and by then they couldve easily streaked 3x getting out of gap closer range. The other morph of streak hard counters projectiles making it impossible to interrupt dark conversion through either crushing shock or venom arrow. Again making it possible to streak several times and just use dark conversion to get magicka back.
Streak combines with dark conversion is the best escape skill in the game, followed by shade. Demanding more nerfs to cloak or being happy with its current situation is just biased and bad for the overall balance of the NB class.
PS. I also play a magsorc so I now the difference.
Never said anything about nerfing cloak here, just making a point that there is counters to streak. You are also forgetting that crushing shock is not a projectile and does not get affected by ball of lightning if the mechanics havent changed since before dk wings nerf.
It is also bad to compare an escape tool with multiple skills, combined. Streak and dark deal is not better than shade combined with cloak as you can literally disappear from 20 people chasing you if you are skilled enough. Something that sorc cannot do, because
1. You cannot stun everyone at same time with streak as streaking through them will leave you in the middle of the zerg.
2. Ball of lightning doesnt stop the crushing shock spammers or gap closing spammers.
All im saying is that there are more people using cloak counters than people using streak counters.
A hard counter is a strategy that utterly dominates another strategy, leaving no question of the outcome.
There are literally dozens of hard counters to cloak (i.e. multiple skills specifically designed to turn it off, all AOE abilities turn it off, and potions completely turn it off for 15 seconds).
There are no hard counters to streak as far as I know.
Gap closer = close gap streak creates unless if they streak through you. Having enough sustained speed and you will be able to keep up with a streaking sorcerer, they cant streak infinately and if they dark deal inbetween they will use alot of time. Havent tested a race but i think a stamsorc orc medium armor with major expedition will be able to keep up with a streaking sorcerer in a long distance run.
Comparing streak dark deal with shade and cloak is different because they work differently. Playing a magblade without cloak i can say that shade is the superior option if you have good placement and enough obstacles to hide around. In an open field then streak is better. Also there are a almost no counters to nightblade shading through a wall and cloaking as the range of detection pot is not large enough if you run away straight away. Only counter is if you know where they place their shade and are aware that they are in that area.0 -
Berek_Bloodfang✭✭✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »This is from a PvP magblades perspective but some points can also be applied to stamblades or PvP in general.
Playing a magblade is frustrating as f****. Most of the time Im struggling what it feels like against the game itself instead of enemies/ other players skill. Im going to try to elaborate why I feel like that and what could be done, with gifs/images as examples.
First lets talk about travel time in PvP and lag.
Nothing hits. Its frustating as hell when an enemy is literally standing still on your screen but somehow "dodge" appears above their head.
You can clearly see that the guy Im fighting is standing still, so why am I getting "dodged"?
Thats because of the travel-time projectiles have, combined with PvP lag. Its especially worse on a magblade because every attack (except sap essence) can be hard countered/100% mitigated by just roll dodging. Thats not fun, its frustrating watching a guy with 5% HP just spam roll dodge and self heals and get back up to 100% HP.
Projectile speed
Now lets have a look at "Swallow Soul" - the main spammable of a magblade and compare it to "Concealed Weapon"- a melee spammable which also costs magicka and therefore used my some melee magblades.
Swallow Soul
Concealed Weapon
If we look at both we can clearly see that "Swallow Soul" (compared to "Concealed Weapon") hits with a delay, add PvP lag into the calculation and the chances of "Swallow Soul" hitting someone becomes very small. Which again is nothing else but frustrating.
Cloak
Cloak is messed up. I think I dont have to say anything regarding that.
I will just leave these here.
Merciless Resolve
"Merciless Resolve" - bow proc has a massive travel time which results in it not hitting 80% of the time when cast from range.
This is again a massive issue that was obviously overlooked.
This is "Merciless" cast from a 22m range.
This is "Merciless" cast from a melee range.
Lotus Fan
I mean do I have to say anything? Its clearly not "Instant", I can literally block-cancle it, same as "Soul Harvest" which has a 0,4sec cast time. Fix.It.
___________________________________
Conclusion:
The whole "magblade" identity feels and is clunky, which in return makes the gameplay frustrating as hell.
Solutions:
- Rework the whole class.
- Either make Swallow Soul undodgeable or let it have no travel time/projectile speed at all. "Steal an enemy's life force" would fit into the "undodgeable" part.
- Change Swallow Souls healing, it being a 10sec HoT which heals every 2secs makes no sense. Its a spammable. Make it either 1sec every 5secs or change it, so it saves the biggest heal and applies it over 10secs/every 2secs instead of refreshing it every cast.
- Speed up the Merciless Resolve proc, it having a massive travel time doesnt fit the "ranged" gameplay a magblade has.
- Fix Cloak.
- Make Lotus Fan actually an instant cast.
- Remove the cast time from Soul Harvest.
- Give the class "undodgable" attacks besides Sap Essence to counter roll dodge spammers.
- FIX CLOAK.
Yes, all of this!!!1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »I wasn't aware cloak was supposed to stop a leap already in progress, that guy already leaped before you even cloaked or saw him it was just delayed...
Just because cloak functioned like that off-label for a long time before doesn't mean it will keep doing so or should. There was never any reason for cloak to ever suppress AoEs already in progress in the first place. [snip]
[Edit for bait.]
[snip] You can clearly see that he was on the ground while I was already hidden, if he was in the air and I cloaked, sure hit me. But I should not get hit by single target abbilties when Im already in cloak. I also did post another gif of me getting hit in cloak. Cloak is bugged atm if it is supposed to work like how it currently is then the whole skill needs a rework, because having 100+ counters and now getting hit by single target abbilities wont cut it.
[Edit for bait.]
What you see is not what someone else sees or what the server already has done. You see the past on your screen. If you don't believe it, test it out with a friend in the same home + same connection.
Leap itself had to have already been casted before you saw it or even bothered cloaking because it is one of the skills in the game with the strictest targeting requirements and always has a delay. The moment he stood still he had already used leap and the game already searched and found you as a target...cloak is not supposed to override that, and its good it finally does not IMO.
Even disregarding that, you should not have been protected against it anyway.
Now onto the poison injection, you are aware that cloak does not stop and has never stopped projectiles that are cast after it? In fact, if he was smart enough he should have cast it -> went manual aim so the aim assist works, but it counts it as a manual aim and the skill gets delayed. Cloak's "i-frame" only works on projectiles counted in-transit; doesn't work on manual aim. Swapping to first person after using a skill aim assisted at the right time makes it follow the rules of manual aim. Maybe he did that and that is how he really broke cloak, but we are not supposed to talk about bugs and how to abuse them, so no more talk of that Especially ones in the physics engine that can be abused...
Why is that good? Can you explain it? Just because you people have issues countering the skill that has 100+ ways to counter it? Getting hit by single target abilties makes the skill even more useless. NBs dont have a burst heal or class shields, their whole defense relies on cloak and making peoeple "miss" their attacks. I dont even bother using cloak/shadowy disguise in a fight anymore due to it being unrealiable and clunky. Thats not a good thing.
I will never get why people are obsessed with cloak when you literally can infinite streak with enough mag recovery and dark conversion and there are literally 0 counters to it.
People like you are the reason why nightblades are barely seen anymore in PvP, besides bow gankers who abuse skill delay and hit 3 snipes in a second.
Your next point is 100% reaching. Im not touching that with a 10feet pole.
Nb's do have alot of passive healing from hots, making it one of the stronger dueling classes in the game. I play magblade without cloak, only dark cloak and i can say if you build for it then nb can be quite tanky. Getting healed while attacking your opponent is almost a class identity to nb in siphoning skill tree, swallow soul and siphoning strikes heal alot if you are on the offensive, more than templar jabs. This means that nb can keep pressuring their opponents without recasting their hots unless needed.
Taking both sides in consideration, the reason cloak and streak are seen as op between the two counterparts is due to the fact that both have counters to them, but not many use them. Cloak is countered by aoe, detect pot, detect skills and blocking if they use it in an offensive combination. Not many use them, but there are more players using these counters, if not all players because everyone has magelight/camouflaged hunter slotted or use aoe skills or have detect pots.
The infamous streak dark deal combo is countered by gap closers, speed and interrupts. These counters are almost never seen in pvp because the skills is not meta, why use a gap closer when you can get more damage or use better skills. Speed is more prevalent in stamina builds as they can easily hit the speed cap while sprinting, while interrupts are barely used against dark deal because of the short cast time or because not many use crushing shock anymore. It is possible to chase and cath up to a person using streak, sprinting with major expedition and you will eventually catch up with them, if not tgen you can get on your horse and chase when you get out of combat. (if you dont get stuck in combat) sorcs have lower sustain than people think, they will eventually run out of magicka or stamina. Best method is either stunning or interrupting them when they are dark dealing as they run out of stamina fast and will get stun-locked.
In conclusion both cloak and streak have counters, only that cloak counters are more wide-spread and used by nearly everyone.
In theory yes, in praxis they can streak through you, stunning you, forcing you to switch direction and by then they couldve easily streaked 3x getting out of gap closer range. The other morph of streak hard counters projectiles making it impossible to interrupt dark conversion through either crushing shock or venom arrow. Again making it possible to streak several times and just use dark conversion to get magicka back.
Streak combines with dark conversion is the best escape skill in the game, followed by shade. Demanding more nerfs to cloak or being happy with its current situation is just biased and bad for the overall balance of the NB class.
PS. I also play a magsorc so I now the difference.
Never said anything about nerfing cloak here, just making a point that there is counters to streak. You are also forgetting that crushing shock is not a projectile and does not get affected by ball of lightning if the mechanics havent changed since before dk wings nerf.
It is also bad to compare an escape tool with multiple skills, combined. Streak and dark deal is not better than shade combined with cloak as you can literally disappear from 20 people chasing you if you are skilled enough. Something that sorc cannot do, because
1. You cannot stun everyone at same time with streak as streaking through them will leave you in the middle of the zerg.
2. Ball of lightning doesnt stop the crushing shock spammers or gap closing spammers.
All im saying is that there are more people using cloak counters than people using streak counters.
A hard counter is a strategy that utterly dominates another strategy, leaving no question of the outcome.
There are literally dozens of hard counters to cloak (i.e. multiple skills specifically designed to turn it off, all AOE abilities turn it off, and potions completely turn it off for 15 seconds).
There are no hard counters to streak as far as I know.
Gap closer = close gap streak creates unless if they streak through you. Having enough sustained speed and you will be able to keep up with a streaking sorcerer, they cant streak infinately and if they dark deal inbetween they will use alot of time. Havent tested a race but i think a stamsorc orc medium armor with major expedition will be able to keep up with a streaking sorcerer in a long distance run.
Comparing streak dark deal with shade and cloak is different because they work differently. Playing a magblade without cloak i can say that shade is the superior option if you have good placement and enough obstacles to hide around. In an open field then streak is better. Also there are a almost no counters to nightblade shading through a wall and cloaking as the range of detection pot is not large enough if you run away straight away. Only counter is if you know where they place their shade and are aware that they are in that area.
Nothing you just mentioned is a hard counter. Chasing after someone is not a hard counter and there are no skills/potions that turn streak off. If you streak through someone, there is absolutely nothing they can do about it — zero counterplay. Once you are stunned, the sorc can streak twice at which point gap closers are useless — so is sprinting after them, even if you're at the speed cap. Dark Deal isn't even necessary unless you are playing with a small magicka pool and/or low regen. (Another luxury most magblades cannot enjoy.)
As far as Shade is concerned, I'm not sure I understand what that has to do with Cloak. As far as I can tell from the previous conversation, Cloak is the pain point — not Shade. Although I personally don't find Shade to be particularly useful to me in BGs, it still has it's [niche] uses & it isn't currently broken.4 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭I know you are focused on Magblade, but I think this is just a bigger nightblade issue as well. OUR CLASS SKILLS DON'T WORKKK!"What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"2 -
xI_The_Owl_Ix✭✭✭✭✭Moose_Scout wrote: »I know you are focused on Magblade, but I think this is just a bigger nightblade issue as well. OUR CLASS SKILLS DON'T WORKKK!
I also made a thread in which I also focused on stamina nbs and nbs in general.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521355/nightblades-and-clunkiness-in-pvp
If youd like to check it out. 0 -
kind_hero✭✭✭✭✭
✭I gave the OP an awesome, because I have also noticed these things in pvp and pve. Sadly, my main, which has the achievements I like and is also my main crafter is magNB.
Seeing the devs come with a token that changes your alliance, I would appreciate more a token to change my class to something else until they fix and improve the NB class.
From my experience, some other classes have a flow in their combat, you keep doing stuff that is fun or just does damage, with the magNB all feels off, skills don't function like you would expect (best example is the bow proc which is very slow and fails to hit because your target dodges), the concealed weapon is slow, teleport is slow, impale is very situational and useless 90% of times in pvp, also you keep breaking the flow by doing boring stuff like refreshing your bow proc, siphoning strikes, and so on...[PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭I think people should be carefull to stress why players being able to dodge the bowproc or soul harvest is a problem.
Taken out of context it makes it sound like half the time people want an unblockable undodgeable burst. It comes across as greedy rather than legitimate frustration.
So let me add what id like to see for the nightblade aside from the usual.
Shadow image: i would like this ability's teleport to be reusable without recast. Currently it costs 2 global cooldowns for one teleport. Even if a magicka cost is added to the teleport this should not cost 2 whole cooldowns.
Cloak: just makes this reliable like its been up until dragonhold and harrowstorm.
Refreshing Path: put literally anything other than major expedition on this skill. Terrible disfunctional place for it. Idealy something with real group utility like minor force (my personal preference) or better strategic value like AOE resolve or something new and unique. Current implementation is no different than not having it at all.2 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭Spectral Bow will be reeeaaally worthless now since there is less incentive to light attack weave in PVP.
Bye Bye Mage-Blade action
I'll miss you in the baddest fashion!"What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭Moose_Scout wrote: »Spectral Bow will be reeeaaally worthless now since there is less incentive to light attack weave in PVP.
Bye Bye Mage-Blade action
I'll miss you in the baddest fashion!
??
Why is there less incentive? They didnt nerf light attacks as far as I know. And even then there still would be no reason not to weave.0 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭Light attacks do significantly less damage now...so, yes this is another nerf to nightblades.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/pts-patch-notes-testing-ideas-for-light-heavy-attacks-in-combat
Read above."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"0 -
Czekoludek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moose_Scout wrote: »Light attacks do significantly less damage now...so, yes this is another nerf to nightblades.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/517545/pts-patch-notes-testing-ideas-for-light-heavy-attacks-in-combat
Read above.
I suggest you should go to pts and test it by yourself. They already told us they won't introduce these changes (at least in this update). The changes to la and ha aren't even on pts right now.0
