Playing a magblade is nothing but frustrating.

Tommy_The_Gun

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

@Somers23

Somers23 wrote: »

That dragon leap is a aoe. That's why you still got hit.

Thats not how it works. Leap is a single target ability which does AoE damage. You dont aim it on the ground and it leaps, it leaps to one/single person. And I shouldnt have been hit while cloaked. Cloak is even more useless since the Harrowstorm update, because you get hit by single target abilities even light or heavy attacks.

Yep, cloak is bugged since Harrowstorm update. The only things that should counter it are AOE that do not need a target to cast and invisibility removal tools (expert hunter, flare, Magelight or detection pots etc.).

The thing is, they have changed the following:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/513128/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-3-4-harrowstorm-update-25#latest
"Fixed an issue where using a single target charge, leap, or teleport ability would not remove targets from stealth or invisibility while you had a detection potion active."

But "the bug" is that you actually don't need an active detect potion for that. It seems that if you wave in the air you will actually hit cloaked enemies. Basically speaking the "miss*, *miss* information is missing (lol) and now instead you take dmg and as a result - you get removed from stealth / invisibility.

Idk what the issue was tbh. If some one has detect potion active and invisible enemy is too close they should be revealed by that detect potion. In other words - detect potion should "remove targets from stealth" - not the single target skills or LA / HA.
When you have an active "tool" that removes invisibility, since invisibility is removed from the enemies near you, your singe target abilities can simply target them....

This is at leats how it worked before Harrowstorm. My guess is they fixed a very very rare bug and as a result they have broken invisibility as a mechanic in general. Invisibility potions seems to be affected to. When I have them on, all it takes is a random MOB AI to "think" to attack me and I drop from Invisibility.

Btw. OP it is bad for both variants of NB - mag & stam. Stam is only in a slightly better spot. But overall, when compared to others in various categories - Mag NB is currently the worst magicka class in game and stam NB is worst stamina class in game.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519931/pvp-class-stengths-weaknesses-graphs-harrowstorm

Iskiab

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

@Somers23

Somers23 wrote: »

That dragon leap is a aoe. That's why you still got hit.

Thats not how it works. Leap is a single target ability which does AoE damage. You dont aim it on the ground and it leaps, it leaps to one/single person. And I shouldnt have been hit while cloaked. Cloak is even more useless since the Harrowstorm update, because you get hit by single target abilities even light or heavy attacks.

Yep, cloak is bugged since Harrowstorm update. The only things that should counter it are AOE that do not need a target to cast and invisibility removal tools (expert hunter, flare, Magelight or detection pots etc.).

The thing is, they have changed the following:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/513128/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-3-4-harrowstorm-update-25#latest
"Fixed an issue where using a single target charge, leap, or teleport ability would not remove targets from stealth or invisibility while you had a detection potion active."

But "the bug" is that you actually don't need an active detect potion for that. It seems that if you wave in the air you will actually hit cloaked enemies. Basically speaking the "miss*, *miss* information is missing (lol) and now instead you take dmg and as a result - you get removed from stealth / invisibility.

Idk what the issue was tbh. If some one has detect potion active and invisible enemy is too close they should be revealed by that detect potion. In other words - detect potion should "remove targets from stealth" - not the single target skills or LA / HA.
When you have an active "tool" that removes invisibility, since invisibility is removed from the enemies near you, your singe target abilities can simply target them....

This is at leats how it worked before Harrowstorm. My guess is they fixed a very very rare bug and as a result they have broken invisibility as a mechanic in general. Invisibility potions seems to be affected to. When I have them on, all it takes is a random MOB AI to "think" to attack me and I drop from Invisibility.

Btw. OP it is bad for both variants of NB - mag & stam. Stam is only in a slightly better spot. But overall, when compared to others in various categories - Mag NB is currently the worst magicka class in game and stam NB is worst stamina class in game.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519931/pvp-class-stengths-weaknesses-graphs-harrowstorm

Setting matters a lot. For magblade there are good enough abilities in the support, resto and assault line you can play in more settings. Overall I’d say magblade is better, stamblade is solo Cyro or pretty bad.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Iskiab wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

@Somers23

Somers23 wrote: »

That dragon leap is a aoe. That's why you still got hit.

Thats not how it works. Leap is a single target ability which does AoE damage. You dont aim it on the ground and it leaps, it leaps to one/single person. And I shouldnt have been hit while cloaked. Cloak is even more useless since the Harrowstorm update, because you get hit by single target abilities even light or heavy attacks.

Yep, cloak is bugged since Harrowstorm update. The only things that should counter it are AOE that do not need a target to cast and invisibility removal tools (expert hunter, flare, Magelight or detection pots etc.).

The thing is, they have changed the following:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/513128/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-3-4-harrowstorm-update-25#latest
"Fixed an issue where using a single target charge, leap, or teleport ability would not remove targets from stealth or invisibility while you had a detection potion active."

But "the bug" is that you actually don't need an active detect potion for that. It seems that if you wave in the air you will actually hit cloaked enemies. Basically speaking the "miss*, *miss* information is missing (lol) and now instead you take dmg and as a result - you get removed from stealth / invisibility.

Idk what the issue was tbh. If some one has detect potion active and invisible enemy is too close they should be revealed by that detect potion. In other words - detect potion should "remove targets from stealth" - not the single target skills or LA / HA.
When you have an active "tool" that removes invisibility, since invisibility is removed from the enemies near you, your singe target abilities can simply target them....

This is at leats how it worked before Harrowstorm. My guess is they fixed a very very rare bug and as a result they have broken invisibility as a mechanic in general. Invisibility potions seems to be affected to. When I have them on, all it takes is a random MOB AI to "think" to attack me and I drop from Invisibility.

Btw. OP it is bad for both variants of NB - mag & stam. Stam is only in a slightly better spot. But overall, when compared to others in various categories - Mag NB is currently the worst magicka class in game and stam NB is worst stamina class in game.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519931/pvp-class-stengths-weaknesses-graphs-harrowstorm

Setting matters a lot. For magblade there are good enough abilities in the support, resto and assault line you can play in more settings. Overall I’d say magblade is better, stamblade is solo Cyro or pretty bad.

I wouldnt say "better" but more versatile. They can also run gank/bomb/brawler/support builds, making it more versatile. However magblades defintely lack burst and dmg consistency. Magblade and Stamblade both are terrible, dont get me started on tankblade i PvE. I hate the direction NBs are going for a year now.

I remember when I was happy that gilliam became a dev, now I miss wrobel.

Deathlord92

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

@Somers23

Somers23 wrote: »

That dragon leap is a aoe. That's why you still got hit.

Thats not how it works. Leap is a single target ability which does AoE damage. You dont aim it on the ground and it leaps, it leaps to one/single person. And I shouldnt have been hit while cloaked. Cloak is even more useless since the Harrowstorm update, because you get hit by single target abilities even light or heavy attacks.

Yep, cloak is bugged since Harrowstorm update. The only things that should counter it are AOE that do not need a target to cast and invisibility removal tools (expert hunter, flare, Magelight or detection pots etc.).

The thing is, they have changed the following:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/513128/pc-mac-patch-notes-v5-3-4-harrowstorm-update-25#latest
"Fixed an issue where using a single target charge, leap, or teleport ability would not remove targets from stealth or invisibility while you had a detection potion active."

But "the bug" is that you actually don't need an active detect potion for that. It seems that if you wave in the air you will actually hit cloaked enemies. Basically speaking the "miss*, *miss* information is missing (lol) and now instead you take dmg and as a result - you get removed from stealth / invisibility.

Idk what the issue was tbh. If some one has detect potion active and invisible enemy is too close they should be revealed by that detect potion. In other words - detect potion should "remove targets from stealth" - not the single target skills or LA / HA.
When you have an active "tool" that removes invisibility, since invisibility is removed from the enemies near you, your singe target abilities can simply target them....

This is at leats how it worked before Harrowstorm. My guess is they fixed a very very rare bug and as a result they have broken invisibility as a mechanic in general. Invisibility potions seems to be affected to. When I have them on, all it takes is a random MOB AI to "think" to attack me and I drop from Invisibility.

Btw. OP it is bad for both variants of NB - mag & stam. Stam is only in a slightly better spot. But overall, when compared to others in various categories - Mag NB is currently the worst magicka class in game and stam NB is worst stamina class in game.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/519931/pvp-class-stengths-weaknesses-graphs-harrowstorm

Setting matters a lot. For magblade there are good enough abilities in the support, resto and assault line you can play in more settings. Overall I’d say magblade is better, stamblade is solo Cyro or pretty bad.

I wouldnt say "better" but more versatile. They can also run gank/bomb/brawler/support builds, making it more versatile. However magblades defintely lack burst and dmg consistency. Magblade and Stamblade both are terrible, dont get me started on tankblade i PvE. I hate the direction NBs are going for a year now.

I remember when I was happy that gilliam became a dev, now I miss wrobel.

Yup same here at least wrobel cared about nb

Cathexis

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Lol at getting hit while cloaked , that’s a common one.

As it should be. You are invisible, not immortal. Invis pots do the same thing.

Also I'm confused as to why range attacks not being immediate damage is wrong, that's normal, they are range attacks.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Cathexis wrote: »

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

Lol at getting hit while cloaked , that’s a common one.

As it should be. You are invisible, not immortal. Invis pots do the same thing.

Also I'm confused as to why range attacks not being immediate damage is wrong, that's normal, they are range attacks.

Read the OP and you will understand that travel time combined with lag and being single target direct damage, makes everything clunky and you miss 80% of your attacks and waste resources, which again is frustrating.

>As it should be
Im sorry but its clear you dont know anything about balance. NBs lack defense/a good self healing, they negate dmg by cloaking when cloak doesnt work, you dont have a defense and you die. It would be the same if you cast Breath of Life and it doesnt heal, you wasted your magicka and lost defense/heal. If that sounds fair to you then make a thread and ask for hard counters against those defensive skills.

Stx

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Paramundo

I can't remember the last time cloak did not break and helped escaping a fight. It's almost useless. Same as spectral bow since it is not firing every second time.

OWLTHEMAD

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Grianasteri wrote: »

Some reasonable points have been made by the OP.

But I did notice that the claimed issue with cloak, in the example shown, seems wrong. Clearly the opponent has initiated their skill BEFORE cloak was fully engaged, to me I can even see this on the video replay.

But as I say, some valid issues highlighted. The main one being lag, which renders a great deal of time in pvp utterly pointless.

Yeah, he leaped before OP cloaked. That leap should land.

I wont deny, NB has had a rough go of things recently. One thing that is really hard to objectively measure is that some classes just do better in a high lag environment. NB is def not one of those classes, in fact, they probably have the toughest time in a high lag environment. NBs have always required very high APM to play effectively. Historically, they had high potential with high skill threshold, so I was okay with it, but that is not the case any longer.

Jabbs_Giggity

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

This is from a PvP magblades perspective but some points can also be applied to stamblades or PvP in general.


Playing a magblade is frustrating as f****. Most of the time Im struggling what it feels like against the game itself instead of enemies/ other players skill. Im going to try to elaborate why I feel like that and what could be done, with gifs/images as examples.


First lets talk about travel time in PvP and lag.

Nothing hits. Its frustating as hell when an enemy is literally standing still on your screen but somehow "dodge" appears above their head.



You can clearly see that the guy Im fighting is standing still, so why am I getting "dodged"?

Thats because of the travel-time projectiles have, combined with PvP lag. Its especially worse on a magblade because every attack (except sap essence) can be hard countered/100% mitigated by just roll dodging. Thats not fun, its frustrating watching a guy with 5% HP just spam roll dodge and self heals and get back up to 100% HP.


Projectile speed

Now lets have a look at "Swallow Soul" - the main spammable of a magblade and compare it to "Concealed Weapon"- a melee spammable which also costs magicka and therefore used my some melee magblades.

Swallow Soul



Concealed Weapon



If we look at both we can clearly see that "Swallow Soul" (compared to "Concealed Weapon") hits with a delay, add PvP lag into the calculation and the chances of "Swallow Soul" hitting someone becomes very small. Which again is nothing else but frustrating.


Cloak

Cloak is messed up. I think I dont have to say anything regarding that.
I will just leave these here.






Merciless Resolve

"Merciless Resolve" - bow proc has a massive travel time which results in it not hitting 80% of the time when cast from range.
This is again a massive issue that was obviously overlooked.

This is "Merciless" cast from a 22m range.


This is "Merciless" cast from a melee range.



Lotus Fan





I mean do I have to say anything? Its clearly not "Instant", I can literally block-cancle it, same as "Soul Harvest" which has a 0,4sec cast time. Fix.It.


___________________________________

Conclusion:
The whole "magblade" identity feels and is clunky, which in return makes the gameplay frustrating as hell.

Solutions:
- Rework the whole class.
- Either make Swallow Soul undodgeable or let it have no travel time/projectile speed at all. "Steal an enemy's life force" would fit into the "undodgeable" part.
- Change Swallow Souls healing, it being a 10sec HoT which heals every 2secs makes no sense. Its a spammable. Make it either 1sec every 5secs or change it, so it saves the biggest heal and applies it over 10secs/every 2secs instead of refreshing it every cast.
- Speed up the Merciless Resolve proc, it having a massive travel time doesnt fit the "ranged" gameplay a magblade has.
- Fix Cloak.
- Make Lotus Fan actually an instant cast.
- Remove the cast time from Soul Harvest.
- Give the class "undodgable" attacks besides Sap Essence to counter roll dodge spammers.
- FIX CLOAK.

100% AGREED. Also, would like to point out on Merciless, it seems to have RNG on the stacks. I have tested on both stationary dummy and friends. It claims "5" stacks to activate. Not sure what the deal is, but there are times in PVP that it takes 6-10 LA to activate the stacks. Could be lag, could be getting dodged, etc. However, if I am seeing damage numbers for every LA, it should be charged and ready to go after 5 LA...

Back to your last point, NB used to be the go-to example of how all classes should perform, as far as class feeling. NB was the most fluent class to combo abilities. Now, not at all. Everything, literally everything about NB is clunky.

For some reason also, I could have over 2,500 Mag recovery and 40+ Max Mag and still seems like I burn out of resources after 3-4 abilities...in comparison to other mag classes that I can sustain for days.

Also, Magblade hits like a wet noodle. That's all.

Iskiab

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Dark Cloak is bad. The changes to Dark Cloak a year ago is why I stopped playing the game and just recently came back. I used to main a nightblade tank and was the only NB tank on my server who was using a NB tank for endgame content. I no longer play a tank.

Dark Cloak heals I think 6% of your max health over 8seconds/each second. Lets say Im a magblade with 25k HP in PvP, thats 1500 HP per second, now battlespirit halfs the healing: its 750 HP/1sec. Thats not enough to keep up against other defensive options. The reason why every "brawler" type magblade build uses the blackrose prison resto is because the skill alone is bad.

Chelo

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

And why not both? Why do we suppose to chose between stealth and heal? That's the problem... We have a useless skill/heal for years (Malevolent Offering and morphs), literally NO ONE use that skill. Why not rework it into a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while while using it?

Chelo

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

Czekoludek

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

Wait for vamp dk to reset the fight with invis and then coagulating blood. Basically every class in the game except nb will be broken OP as you stated. If everyone gets invis, why blade cannot have burst healing?

Joinovikova

I agree with desync on Shadowy Disguise. It is seriously unplayable

Chelo

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

NyassaV

Wanna know an easy fix that'll make everyone happy (won't solve the problem but it will make it less frustrating)

GIVE US PRE-MURKMIRE HEALING WARD

NyassaV

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

There are two issues with that.

1. Why are you playing a nightblade if you aren't going to use cloak, it's more or less the last unique thing the class has at this point.
2. The healing you get from that morph of cloak hardly makes a difference in the long run AND the value of the heal is low because you're max health will also tend to be low assuming you aren't a tank.

brandonv516

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

Chelo

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

Iskiab

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

Actually I use it too, it’s a staple of NB healer builds. The healing amount is a little higher than honour the dead, but yea it’s risky to use. For NB healers it’s the only good NB heal left, it’s just to use it effectively you have to heal yourself a lot to keep up with the self dot.

To use it well you need to have a specialist build, but yea it’s niche. NB healers in general are niche these days. What makes it hard is it takes a skill slot, then you need to stack self healing to counter the self dot. Not easy to do as a NB.

Dracane

Everyone using projectiles suffers from this.
Most of the time, I stun someone, use a crystal fragment for example and even though I hear and see the impact, they can already dodge before they have really broken free.

Many people also use a macro that allows them to break right when they are stunned and can immediately roll dodged while still appearing to be stunned.

I feel stuns are no longer useful to open up burst moments, for enemies just roll dodge before breaking free. While that would make the game somewhat less responsive, a delay must be added that prevents everyone from roll dodging before the break free animation has finished. There is no other way to fix it. Everyone would profit from this by giving their stuns enough meaning to at least get 1 attack on the target before it spams dodge.

No matter what they do to travel times, it won't help I fear.

Feizao

Iskiab wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

Actually I use it too, it’s a staple of NB healer builds. The healing amount is a little higher than honour the dead, but yea it’s risky to use. For NB healers it’s the only good NB heal left, it’s just to use it effectively you have to heal yourself a lot to keep up with the self dot.

To use it well you need to have a specialist build, but yea it’s niche. NB healers in general are niche these days. What makes it hard is it takes a skill slot, then you need to stack self healing to counter the self dot. Not easy to do as a NB.

i only ever use it as tank grouped with pugs or running 3 DPS. Trying to use it in PVP will just be me fighting my own health bar.

And yes the old healing ward compensated what magblade lacked. This was the biggest hit to my build personally.

Somers23

xI_The_Owl_Ix wrote: »

@Somers23

Somers23 wrote: »

That dragon leap is a aoe. That's why you still got hit.

Thats not how it works. Leap is a single target ability which does AoE damage. You dont aim it on the ground and it leaps, it leaps to one/single person. And I shouldnt have been hit while cloaked. Cloak is even more useless since the Harrowstorm update, because you get hit by single target abilities even light or heavy attacks.

Ah I'm pretty sure it's a aoe, he obviously got the leap off before you cloaked. The dragon leap is gonna affect that area still

brandonv516

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

To be effective you don't play Magblade healer like any other healer. It is niche but that's not a bad thing - it's extremely fun.

People find it frustrating because all they want to do is hold block with a shield and spam their heal. That's not how it works at all on NB.

One thing you omit (or possibly don't know) is that Offering costs 0 Magicka, heals through walls, and provides Minor Mending.

Edit: I realize by the bolded part of your post you have no idea what you are talking about. Offering can heal from "0% to 100%" - it IS NOT a HoT lol. It is a burst heal that creates a self DoT.

Chelo

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

To be effective you don't play Magblade healer like any other healer. It is niche but that's not a bad thing - it's extremely fun.

People find it frustrating because all they want to do is hold block with a shield and spam their heal. That's not how it works at all on NB.

One thing you omit (or possibly don't know) is that Offering costs 0 Magicka, heals through walls, and provides Minor Mending.

Edit: I realize by the bolded part of your post you have no idea what you are talking about. Offering can heal from "0% to 100%" - it IS NOT a HoT lol. It is a burst heal that creates a self DoT.

Doesn't matter, the whole point is that sacrificing your own life to heal will never be optimal in any aspect of the game (PvP or PvE).

In PvP, If you heal 3 guys with it, you are basically killing yourself, and if someone get to you, it will be easier to kill you because you are already causing damage to yourself.

Give me a Templar healer (which also provide purging) everytime rather than a NB healer.

brandonv516

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Chelo wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

I dont want to go off topic.. but to those who keep saying nightblade self healing is poor.. maybe you are using the wrong morph of cloak.

I can understand why a tanker non stealthy playstyle might be boring, but it's still there as part of the class and it works well for surviving.

Having used it myself, its not good. Its a trifle after battle spirit that does little to protect you that you cant get in a better form elsewhere. Its useful on a pve tank, or if you stack health, but you wont be very threataning if you build around it. A combo of rapid regen, swallow soul siphoning strikes will work. Dark cloak doesnt bring much to that equation though. Structured entropy can be added to the mix though and give you another offensive heal.

It’s because Nightblades are missing a projectile defense, it’s similar to stamsorcs.

In a brawler game you can do okay with dark cloak plus evasion, but you get eaten alive by magsorcs and ranged specs. It’s like playing a stamsorc without rally who can’t dodge roll without the burst.

Defensively speaking, NB only need a burst heal that doesn't make us chose between stealth and heal.

I will say it forever, Malevolent Offering need a rework.

We should be able to stealth and heal ourselves quickly without the need of using offensive healing (Swallow Soul, Siphoning Attacks).

Rework Malevolent Offering to be a heal that doesn't kill ourselves while using it...

If you could cloak and then burst heal from stealth, it would be the ultimate fight reset tool. Broken OP.

It would've been op 2 or 3 years ago... Not in the current patch. NB loose a lot of tools who make him lethal... Even Merciless Resolve now give a clunky healing when shooting from melee range.

All these offensive healing that they gave us, simply doesn't work. Other classes can heal from 0% to 100% just pressing a single skill.

Why NB have to be the only class without a reliable source of healing?

I repeat, the answer is rework Malevolent Offering, is a dead skill anyway, NO ONE use it...

Call me "no one" then I guess. I actually like Offering and can cause enemy teams a lot of frustration.

If someone get to you while you are using Malevolent Offering, you are only contributing to your own dead.

No other heal in the game have this risky play style. And if I'm sacrificing my own life to give it to my mates, I expect it to be a super burst heal (like a last resort), not a lame hot... So pretty much the risk is really high and the reward is really low. The skill is not worth enough.

You may like it but it's a really niche skill and I'm sure that most of the NB population don't even bother with it...

A Templar can heal someone from 1% to 100% instantly, with just 1 skill and without sacrificing his own life. So why do we have to take all this risk for just a hot? It's non sense...

To be effective you don't play Magblade healer like any other healer. It is niche but that's not a bad thing - it's extremely fun.

People find it frustrating because all they want to do is hold block with a shield and spam their heal. That's not how it works at all on NB.

One thing you omit (or possibly don't know) is that Offering costs 0 Magicka, heals through walls, and provides Minor Mending.

Edit: I realize by the bolded part of your post you have no idea what you are talking about. Offering can heal from "0% to 100%" - it IS NOT a HoT lol. It is a burst heal that creates a self DoT.

Doesn't matter, the whole point is that sacrificing your own life to heal will never be optimal in any aspect of the game (PvP or PvE).

In PvP, If you heal 3 guys with it, you are basically killing yourself, and if someone get to you, it will be easier to kill you because you are already causing damage to yourself.

Give me a Templar healer (which also provide purging) everytime rather than a NB healer.

It does matter when you are completely oblivious to how something works.

If you are conservative with it, your HoTs can cover the self DoT it creates.

The point is you want the skill changed and I don't feel it needs to be. Every heal style doesn't need to be the same - that's boring.