The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 22:
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Supernatural Recovery
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow wait what 20% increase in all non vampire abilities I’m sure I’m not the only stamina player who likes playing vampire I don’t even play vampire for my recovery I go stage 2 sometimes that’s it. Main reason I play vampire is role play this could completely ruin my immersion if that’s the case in every elder scrolls game I role a vampire cutthroat I hope this doesn’t go live.Edited by Deathlord92 on April 1, 2020 2:30PM6 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭20% increase cost huh... so they should feel 20% more powerful right?
I mean that's how they balanced werewolves and Everyone thought that was fair am I right???
@Chrlynsch lolol
From what I understand bone of the values we see are final. However it begs the question why were they so lopsided in the first place 😬
What would make you say the 5/10/15/20% values are final? If anything, I think that may be old information, seeing as in one of the videos released yesterday the value of the cost increase they [unsuccessfully] blurred was 7% — which doesn't align with any of the numbers that people are talking about in this thread.
Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say they were final. Bone was obviously meant to be none, why on earth my phone autocorrected none to bone is beyond me. -.-Edited by TheFM on April 1, 2020 2:29PM1 -
Kahnak✭✭✭✭✭Even if I embrace all the vampire skills on my mag sorc, I still have to use 50 percent of my normal abilities, which will prohibitive expensive. There is no justification for the cost increase of that magnitude.
You are being overly dramatic. If 50% of your skills cost 20% more, but the other 50% cost 40% less, your overall resource drain may actually decrease. It depends on how often you use each skill of course, but nobody is forcing you to be at stage 4. You have access to all vampire skills at stage 1, for a measly 5% penalty to your non-vamp skill costs.
Do you know how a magsorc plays? Melee classes will be at a MASSIVE advantage over me if I am forced to use the melee spammable. Every class should be viable as a vamp stage 1-4, regardless of class. And as is, this is not the case. Build diversity is the goal of this patch, and this is not it. If I decide to go into melee range, which is where I will be forced to be, I will be even more reliant on shields, and 20 percent cost increase to 2 seperate shields is going to be absurd. Especially with how weak they are now adays. Not to mention being in light armor at melee range is already a huge disadvantage against stam players.
Imagine getting this worked up over something that's hardly even been playtested. Save your outrage and indignation for the actual PTS cycle. You are the reason why content creators were meant to grey out actual numbers, yet here you are, un-ironically screeching about how reprehensible and unfair ZOS is now that they've made preliminary changes to Vampire.
How did you get worked up from that? Please stop assuming and being rude. You can be passionate about something without being in rage mode.
What's the point about being passionate about something when it's definitely going to change in the next 4 weeks? [Snip].
[Edited for rude content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on April 1, 2020 9:00PMTombstone Reads: "Forgot to get good"0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even if I embrace all the vampire skills on my mag sorc, I still have to use 50 percent of my normal abilities, which will prohibitive expensive. There is no justification for the cost increase of that magnitude.
You are being overly dramatic. If 50% of your skills cost 20% more, but the other 50% cost 40% less, your overall resource drain may actually decrease. It depends on how often you use each skill of course, but nobody is forcing you to be at stage 4. You have access to all vampire skills at stage 1, for a measly 5% penalty to your non-vamp skill costs.
Do you know how a magsorc plays? Melee classes will be at a MASSIVE advantage over me if I am forced to use the melee spammable. Every class should be viable as a vamp stage 1-4, regardless of class. And as is, this is not the case. Build diversity is the goal of this patch, and this is not it. If I decide to go into melee range, which is where I will be forced to be, I will be even more reliant on shields, and 20 percent cost increase to 2 seperate shields is going to be absurd. Especially with how weak they are now adays. Not to mention being in light armor at melee range is already a huge disadvantage against stam players.
Imagine getting this worked up over something that's hardly even been playtested. Save your outrage and indignation for the actual PTS cycle. You are the reason why content creators were meant to grey out actual numbers, yet here you are, un-ironically screeching about how reprehensible and unfair ZOS is now that they've made preliminary changes to Vampire.
How did you get worked up from that? Please stop assuming and being rude. You can be passionate about something without being in rage mode.
What's the point about being passionate about something when it's definitely going to change in the next 4 weeks? [Snip].
[Edited for rude content]
Because I have always played vampire since oblivion, and this would pretty much force me out of doing that for the first time since....ever. It begs the question why, even on early builds, it would be that high. There has to be some sort of reasoning behind it.
Someone a few posts up said the 20 is now 7 on newer builds, which would be totally acceptable, still a bitter pill to swallow, but a good middle ground between the people saying there should be a cost increase of 20 percent, and those saying there should be no cost increase. IMO there should be none, because we already lost our regen passive, but if they are determined to add an increase, 7 percent at stage 4 is reasonable.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on April 1, 2020 9:00PM6 -
ImSoPro✭✭✭Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.Thevampirenight wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.
While you are at Vampire Stage 4
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.
Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.
Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%
Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy
So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.
All I’m saying is there is alot of overreaction on this thread to numbers that are PRE PTS. They’re in no way final numbers. Give ZOS time to balance and us play test it then pass judgment.
One still has to question why these numbers are so high in the first place? It is very worrying. And even more worrying is how some players are actually saying things like " good " to the numbers, knowing full well they are not balanced.
Your guess is as good as mine on that question, but I’m gonna wait till we get closer to the final product to pass any judgement. Personally I play console so I won’t get to see for myself till June. I’ll be relying on the PC players on the PTS section. Sometimes I wanna buy ESO for my PC just to play the PTS.
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.Thevampirenight wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.
While you are at Vampire Stage 4
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.
Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.
Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%
Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy
So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.
All I’m saying is there is alot of overreaction on this thread to numbers that are PRE PTS. They’re in no way final numbers. Give ZOS time to balance and us play test it then pass judgment.
One still has to question why these numbers are so high in the first place? It is very worrying. And even more worrying is how some players are actually saying things like " good " to the numbers, knowing full well they are not balanced.
Your guess is as good as mine on that question, but I’m gonna wait till we get closer to the final product to pass any judgement. Personally I play console so I won’t get to see for myself till June. I’ll be relying on the PC players on the PTS section. Sometimes I wanna buy ESO for my PC just to play the PTS.
Ill be on the pts, cuz I very much want to see how my builds are effected. I would be very disheartened if I had to abandon all but one of my toons because all of them start playing the same.1 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭20% increase cost huh... so they should feel 20% more powerful right?
I mean that's how they balanced werewolves and Everyone thought that was fair am I right???
@Chrlynsch lolol
From what I understand bone of the values we see are final. However it begs the question why were they so lopsided in the first place 😬
What would make you say the 5/10/15/20% values are final? If anything, I think that may be old information, seeing as in one of the videos released yesterday the value of the cost increase they [unsuccessfully] blurred was 7% — which doesn't align with any of the numbers that people are talking about in this thread.
Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't say they were final. Bone was obviously meant to be none, why on earth my phone autocorrected none to bone is beyond me. -.-
Yeah, I didn't catch that until after I replied. I edited my post to reflect that.0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Same here I always role a vampire since oblivion I really hope this 20% cost increase goes away this will be immersion braking for me.Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.Thevampirenight wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »
I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.
While you are at Vampire Stage 4
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.
Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.
Stage 1/2/3/4
Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%
Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%
Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy
So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.
All I’m saying is there is alot of overreaction on this thread to numbers that are PRE PTS. They’re in no way final numbers. Give ZOS time to balance and us play test it then pass judgment.
One still has to question why these numbers are so high in the first place? It is very worrying. And even more worrying is how some players are actually saying things like " good " to the numbers, knowing full well they are not balanced.
Your guess is as good as mine on that question, but I’m gonna wait till we get closer to the final product to pass any judgement. Personally I play console so I won’t get to see for myself till June. I’ll be relying on the PC players on the PTS section. Sometimes I wanna buy ESO for my PC just to play the PTS.
Ill be on the pts, cuz I very much want to see how my builds are effected. I would be very disheartened if I had to abandon all but one of my toons because all of them start playing the same.
Edited by Deathlord92 on April 1, 2020 2:53PM2 -
JamieAubrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I already run New Moon set with +5% cost and I'm a vampire, so now my skills are going to cost 25% more ?
Yeah no, time to get rid of Vamp if these go live4 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »
It has to do with the new combat changes providing more resources.
Though imo 20% is still too high and needs to be adjusted a bit.Edited by xXMeowMeowXx on April 1, 2020 3:57PM0 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I’m fine with all these changes. There were no drawbacks from being a Vampire. All benefit.
Now, you have to make a choice.Of course I like steak. I'm a Nord, aren't I?
-Berj Stoneheart3 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.
Vampires have always been about the passives mostly in every single TES game, and in ESO since the beginning. It isnt werewolf, and shouldnt play like werewolf. Vampires have always had tons of variety. You have powerful vampire mages, illusionists, rogues, warriors, etc, and that is how it should stay. If people want to play a blood warrior, which in essence is what we are getting, cool, but people should also be able to play a powerful vampire sorceress and not feel like they are being punished. We will already be giving up VERY powerful active abilities, why should we be punished further with SO MANY negative effects?
Where [Snip] are you getting a warrior out of these skills? They are all magicka skills and believe it or not, magicka builds are set to take the biggest advantage of them. Including invis sprint and that damage amp. Be your sorceress and leanr to work with your new toys, I can already see sorcs taking massive advantage of one of these abilities. [Snip] wait and see how they work in practice.
[Edited for rude content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on April 1, 2020 9:16PM0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This I 100% agree with vampires are rogues warriors and mages my vampire is a rogue and I’m praying the cost increase disappears it won’t do any good to build variety and if I’m being completely honest magic builds won’t benefit because they will be forced to use vampire skills.Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.
Vampires have always been about the passives mostly in every single TES game, and in ESO since the beginning. It isnt werewolf, and shouldnt play like werewolf. Vampires have always had tons of variety. You have powerful vampire mages, illusionists, rogues, warriors, etc, and that is how it should stay. If people want to play a blood warrior, which in essence is what we are getting, cool, but people should also be able to play a powerful vampire sorceress and not feel like they are being punished. We will already be giving up VERY powerful active abilities, why should we be punished further with SO MANY negative effects?
2 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.
Vampires have always been about the passives mostly in every single TES game, and in ESO since the beginning. It isnt werewolf, and shouldnt play like werewolf. Vampires have always had tons of variety. You have powerful vampire mages, illusionists, rogues, warriors, etc, and that is how it should stay. If people want to play a blood warrior, which in essence is what we are getting, cool, but people should also be able to play a powerful vampire sorceress and not feel like they are being punished. We will already be giving up VERY powerful active abilities, why should we be punished further with SO MANY negative effects?
Where [Snip] are you getting a warrior out of these skills? They are all magicka skills and believe it or not, magicka builds are set to take the biggest advantage of them. Including invis sprint and that damage amp. Be your sorceress and leanr to work with your new toys, I can already see sorcs taking massive advantage of one of these abilities. [Snip] wait and see how they work in practice.
[Edited for rude content]
Um, the lore. It is possible to be a mag warrior. See mag dk. [Snip]
[Edited for removed content]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on April 1, 2020 9:17PM0 -
ZOS_VolpeadminGreetings,
We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. We know people will not always agree and many of you will share different opinions, but please remember that being rude to your fellow community members is against our Forum Rules and not in the spirit of our game.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hmmmm.... skills that cost health while having no health recovery and plus 20% cost on everything else? At least the vampire population will wipe itself out lol7 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think ppl need to be a bit more honest here.
95% of all Vampires are just vampires for the 10% recovery and a minor amount of players for the damage reduction. Thats about it. For most players Vampire will not be an option after the rework because they never played it for the vampire, it was just a nice bonus that they took.
Both WW and Vampire will end up in a niche where players have a certain playstyle that cna make use and the majority of players will be back to normal, literally.I don't understand why players who took vampirism only for the regen buff, are now pretending to actually care about playing as vampires.
They're trying to make vampirism into a play style that you only take if you specifically build for it. And that's how it should be. They're shoehorning it more into the PvP side of things (no wonder when you see who's responsible for combat), though.
Apart from that, I very much applaud the loss of these passives that made players take vampirism even though they had absolutely no interest in playing as a vampire.
I mean no disrespect (honestly, being sincere here) to the writers of these two quotes, but I cite them as an example of how in the forums a) we take multi-faceted problems and make them binary and b) assert there is a "right" way to do things when, technically, the ESO creed is still "Play the way you want."
First, it is not true that most or all vampires chose to be vampire for the recovery. I don't have stats for this (which means you don't either!) but I can read. Scan through the forums. Look through the builds made by Alcast, Dottz, and others. Some people like mist form. Some people like the bat ultimate. Some people like it for the lore and the fun of saying they are a vampire. There was a thread somewhere around here about changes to drain essence and people had opinions, which means that skill is being used as well. Some people liked the Undeath passive, and I've heard it cited specifically with regards to fall damage. Some people liked the sprint benefit. And yes, some people were vampires just for Supernatural Recovery.
Asserting that everyone was a vampire for this passive alone is incorrect and doesn't help with the discussion. Maybe - maybe - it's true to say that end game raiders and min/maxers were doing this, but look at the gobs of threads about how many casuals this game has and how many problems there are with "end game." The end game folks aren't the majority of players and frankly a lot of casual folks probably don't even know enough to pursue Supernatural Recovery.
Second, I challenge the community in general to defend why vampirism must have a downside and why being a vampire has to be an elite club consisting of only people who want to be vampires? I would argue that both of these stances are bad for the game and myopic. Who cares if most people became vampires for one passive (even though I have just debunked this statement)? Seriously. How is it any different than speccing into Mages' Guild for Inner Light, or Fighter's Guild for Dawnbreaker? How is it any different than going through the Dark Brotherhood content for the skill points even though you don't really want to be a murderer? I mean, we make these compromises ALL OVER the game at yet, for some reason, folks are excessively concerned about whether people want to be vampires.
Frankly, the trade-off for being a vampire is that you can't be a werewolf! You have to pick one! That's the balance! It's fine if there are some mild trade-off effects to being both of these things but why there is this sentiment out there that it should be niche and only chosen if you are really dedicated to "the vampire way" is beyond me. Does it really break your immersion if there are lots of vampires out there for "the wrong reasons?" Sheesh.
So if we set aside the fake metrics and the bizarre elitism, we're left with the fact that the current vampire skill line was used for a variety of reasons, and some people feel that they are losing functionality, features, or enjoyment because the reason they leveraged the skill line is now gone with no replacement.
I think that's fair feedback that should be considered.
Personally, I liked pretending my magicka healer main was a vampire. I used mist form and enjoyed supernatural recovery and liked my creepy red eyes. And from that perspective... these changes are extremely unappealing. I know I'm not alone.10 -
propertyOfUndefined✭✭✭✭✭So if we set aside the fake metrics and the bizarre elitism, we're left with the fact that the current vampire skill line was used for a variety of reasons, and some people feel that they are losing functionality, features, or enjoyment because the reason they leveraged the skill line is now gone with no replacement.
I think that's fair feedback that should be considered.
Personally, I liked pretending my magicka healer main was a vampire. I used mist form and enjoyed supernatural recovery and liked my creepy red eyes. And from that perspective... these changes are extremely unappealing. I know I'm not alone.
Hear, hear...
Edited by propertyOfUndefined on April 2, 2020 1:15AM0 -
haelene✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'll be curing my vamps immediately upon patch drop as well. Loosing the regen is already a major hit to my sustain, there's no way I'm willing to take an additional cost increase on top of that loss. My skills are already expensive enough.
It sucks because I do have characters that are vamps because that's the way I designed their character (not for gameplay reasons, but for story reasons), but I suppose I"ll just have to pretend.5 -
Wa2p✭✭✭I'll be curing my vamps immediately upon patch drop as well. Loosing the regen is already a major hit to my sustain, there's no way I'm willing to take an additional cost increase on top of that loss. My skills are already expensive enough.
It sucks because I do have characters that are vamps because that's the way I designed their character (not for gameplay reasons, but for story reasons), but I suppose I"ll just have to pretend.
Maybe we could just get the standard vanilla stage 4 vamp skin? I am one of those ones that embraced the looks, and am going to be really sad when it's gone. I don't even remember what they look like without it, and I just want to keep the stage four skin. But I cant't afford a huge cost increase, even if I took in a couple of vamp skills, I need the skills I'm using for how I play, because none of these new skills heal others, or really heal me in passive way.
(I suppose I could spend some gems on the Namira skin, it's pale. I can pretend.) 2 -
Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »Wow wait what 20% increase in all non vampire abilities I’m sure I’m not the only stamina player who likes playing vampire I don’t even play vampire for my recovery I go stage 2 sometimes that’s it. Main reason I play vampire is role play this could completely ruin my immersion if that’s the case in every elder scrolls game I role a vampire cutthroat I hope this doesn’t go live.
Dude, 20% increase is only at stage 4, and, I mean, you can still benefit from some of the passives and one active, but it's more geared torwards magicka now for sure.I think ppl need to be a bit more honest here.
95% of all Vampires are just vampires for the 10% recovery and a minor amount of players for the damage reduction. Thats about it. For most players Vampire will not be an option after the rework because they never played it for the vampire, it was just a nice bonus that they took.
Both WW and Vampire will end up in a niche where players have a certain playstyle that cna make use and the majority of players will be back to normal, literally.I don't understand why players who took vampirism only for the regen buff, are now pretending to actually care about playing as vampires.
They're trying to make vampirism into a play style that you only take if you specifically build for it. And that's how it should be. They're shoehorning it more into the PvP side of things (no wonder when you see who's responsible for combat), though.
Apart from that, I very much applaud the loss of these passives that made players take vampirism even though they had absolutely no interest in playing as a vampire.
I mean no disrespect (honestly, being sincere here) to the writers of these two quotes, but I cite them as an example of how in the forums a) we take multi-faceted problems and make them binary and b) assert there is a "right" way to do things when, technically, the ESO creed is still "Play the way you want."
First, it is not true that most or all vampires chose to be vampire for the recovery. I don't have stats for this (which means you don't either!) but I can read. Scan through the forums. Look through the builds made by Alcast, Dottz, and others. Some people like mist form. Some people like the bat ultimate. Some people like it for the lore and the fun of saying they are a vampire. There was a thread somewhere around here about changes to drain essence and people had opinions, which means that skill is being used as well. Some people liked the Undeath passive, and I've heard it cited specifically with regards to fall damage. Some people liked the sprint benefit. And yes, some people were vampires just for Supernatural Recovery.
Asserting that everyone was a vampire for this passive alone is incorrect and doesn't help with the discussion. Maybe - maybe - it's true to say that end game raiders and min/maxers were doing this, but look at the gobs of threads about how many casuals this game has and how many problems there are with "end game." The end game folks aren't the majority of players and frankly a lot of casual folks probably don't even know enough to pursue Supernatural Recovery.
Second, I challenge the community in general to defend why vampirism must have a downside and why being a vampire has to be an elite club consisting of only people who want to be vampires? I would argue that both of these stances are bad for the game and myopic. Who cares if most people became vampires for one passive (even though I have just debunked this statement)? Seriously. How is it any different than speccing into Mages' Guild for Inner Light, or Fighter's Guild for Dawnbreaker? How is it any different than going through the Dark Brotherhood content for the skill points even though you don't really want to be a murderer? I mean, we make these compromises ALL OVER the game at yet, for some reason, folks are excessively concerned about whether people want to be vampires.
Frankly, the trade-off for being a vampire is that you can't be a werewolf! You have to pick one! That's the balance! It's fine if there are some mild trade-off effects to being both of these things but why there is this sentiment out there that it should be niche and only chosen if you are really dedicated to "the vampire way" is beyond me. Does it really break your immersion if there are lots of vampires out there for "the wrong reasons?" Sheesh.
So if we set aside the fake metrics and the bizarre elitism, we're left with the fact that the current vampire skill line was used for a variety of reasons, and some people feel that they are losing functionality, features, or enjoyment because the reason they leveraged the skill line is now gone with no replacement.
I think that's fair feedback that should be considered.
Personally, I liked pretending my magicka healer main was a vampire. I used mist form and enjoyed supernatural recovery and liked my creepy red eyes. And from that perspective... these changes are extremely unappealing. I know I'm not alone.
Okay so you say that not a majority of people choose vamp for that one passive, but for a long time it's been understood by the greater community that the passive was what held up the vamp skill line, and Alcast doesn't tend to suggest vamp or ww cause they tend to build introductory builds and not highend builds. Their build are templates for people to start with so they have some basic knowledge on what their class can do. And Zos agree's they believed that people had only been picking vampire for that passive too, they said as much, and wanted to take it away to create more build diversity. Believe it or not you did not need that passive sustain, it just helped. I think it's a good move to remove it.
Now, for why vampire should have a downside... Same reason you think it should not and you think it will hurt you or your build...Because what about those who don't want to be a vampire? If it''s good for all builds, then all builds will use it, there won't be any none vamps with there is no trade off, it would just be one of those must have skill lines, which feels bad for the greater feel of the world, and makes people that would rather not be a vampire choose vampire. Only the "Elite" mortals would stay mortal as you put it. Not to mentions in every fantasy Vampires had huge trade offs for being vampires. Usually its that the dun just out right kills them, or something like they can't enter a building without being invited, *** they just can't do for a mmo cause, how could they? So instead they are opting for some D&D style weaknesses. Less health recovery, weakness to elements, fire in this case, (Always a good choice for undead. ) cost increase to none natural abilities, which is the most arguable trade off since that can really give someone pause, which is why they did it, and they give vamps a tool that might make it worth it... All that sweet spell damage.
Now, you play a healer correct, and think these cost increase will ruin you gameplay? I understand, higher cost means less outgoing healing per second... But, I don't think this will ruin healers, in fact I think it will make healing far more interesting and I have a huge desire to build a vampire healer now. Why you ask? Because of the aforementioned spell damage, HOT healing might be huge with the way vamps will be working now. Sure cost more, but you throw out these hots and let your health tick down for the spell damage, then burst heal the group when needs, throw up the hots and tick down again. Not to mention you can weave a few mist forms into your rotation to maintain your own health and increase your spell damage even further. The super high heals will make the cost increase more worth it and you don't not even have to be stage four for this to work, so the punishment won't be as harsh, just sit at stage two.
You say this takes away from the fun of others, and takes functionality away from them, you say this from the perspective of a victim, a victim of change you don't want. But I am telling you, this adds a whole new way to play the game to ESO. A lot of us like this, we can't wait to test, and think its going to be a lot of fun, why is your fun worth more then theirs? Why is your immersion worth more then theirs? I know you feel cheated here, but you have only seen the idea on paper, not in practice, just wait, and test some things out before you get too upset. What looks bad on paper sometimes is great in practice. This new play style it will bring to the game might not suit you true, but I know a lot of people it will suit.Edited by Tessitura on April 2, 2020 3:31AM3 -
Taunky✭✭✭✭✭I'm glad to see vampires have some real negative effects now. Just be thankful they didn't add sunlight damage.1
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Tessitura✭✭✭✭✭Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.
Vampires have always been about the passives mostly in every single TES game, and in ESO since the beginning. It isnt werewolf, and shouldnt play like werewolf. Vampires have always had tons of variety. You have powerful vampire mages, illusionists, rogues, warriors, etc, and that is how it should stay. If people want to play a blood warrior, which in essence is what we are getting, cool, but people should also be able to play a powerful vampire sorceress and not feel like they are being punished. We will already be giving up VERY powerful active abilities, why should we be punished further with SO MANY negative effects?
Where [Snip] are you getting a warrior out of these skills? They are all magicka skills and believe it or not, magicka builds are set to take the biggest advantage of them. Including invis sprint and that damage amp. Be your sorceress and leanr to work with your new toys, I can already see sorcs taking massive advantage of one of these abilities. [Snip] wait and see how they work in practice.
[Edited for rude content]
Um, the lore. It is possible to be a mag warrior. See mag dk. [Snip]
[Edited for removed content]
Yeah all the warriors are running around hitting people with magic staffs, you are right. In no way does this favor wizardy builds at all. Mages don't have to be at range, it's a misconception that wizards and sorcerers have to fight at range and be glass. Not even in D&D do they operate like that. I can build strong touch builds, I could do that in all TES games too, they were still mages. So, no when I look at Mag Dk I do not see a mag warrior, I see a mage with fire and earth spells. I don't think most people see them as a warrior either.
Also, vamps always had close range abilities in this game, now they at least have something that works at range. Blood Frenzy.
Now to be fair to you, some tanks could get some use out of these and be magical warriors, but most probably won't without the recovery passive, and the abilities they would use are the one's that were already short ranged abilities that were in the game before. With the way these skills increase ability cost, most people will run Light Armor on vamps now, which is another issue for tanks and the warrior archetype you think this supports.0 -
Toanis✭✭✭✭✭Does it matter what the numbers are and whether they are final or not?
With the loss of the recovery bonus we'd need a cost reduction for non-vamp skills, to get back to where we are now, having vampirism mainly for the recovery, and using vampire abilities where and if useful.
That's obviously not happening, so the new animations seem like a waste of resources, a fancy gimmick for a few hardcore roleplayers playing a werebat, some tanks build and a few pvp gankers. Could have fixed some animation bugs instead.2 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does it matter what the numbers are and whether they are final or not?
With the loss of the recovery bonus we'd need a cost reduction for non-vamp skills, to get back to where we are now, having vampirism mainly for the recovery, and using vampire abilities where and if useful.
That's obviously not happening, so the new animations seem like a waste of resources, a fancy gimmick for a few hardcore roleplayers playing a werebat, some tanks build and a few pvp gankers. Could have fixed some animation bugs instead.Does it matter what the numbers are and whether they are final or not?
With the loss of the recovery bonus we'd need a cost reduction for non-vamp skills, to get back to where we are now, having vampirism mainly for the recovery, and using vampire abilities where and if useful.
That's obviously not happening, so the new animations seem like a waste of resources, a fancy gimmick for a few hardcore roleplayers playing a werebat, some tanks build and a few pvp gankers. Could have fixed some animation bugs instead.
You *are* aware that the entire reason for the rework is to NOT be where we are now? You seem to be missing the whole point. The point of the rework is to allow players to be a vampire if they *want* to play like a vampire. Not because "oh I get free recovery for doing nothing".
The rework is to stop people like you from taking vamp just because. Similar to how werewolf is taken by people who want to play a werewolf. Not because they have to.9 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Does it matter what the numbers are and whether they are final or not?
With the loss of the recovery bonus we'd need a cost reduction for non-vamp skills, to get back to where we are now, having vampirism mainly for the recovery, and using vampire abilities where and if useful.
That's obviously not happening, so the new animations seem like a waste of resources, a fancy gimmick for a few hardcore roleplayers playing a werebat, some tanks build and a few pvp gankers. Could have fixed some animation bugs instead.Does it matter what the numbers are and whether they are final or not?
With the loss of the recovery bonus we'd need a cost reduction for non-vamp skills, to get back to where we are now, having vampirism mainly for the recovery, and using vampire abilities where and if useful.
That's obviously not happening, so the new animations seem like a waste of resources, a fancy gimmick for a few hardcore roleplayers playing a werebat, some tanks build and a few pvp gankers. Could have fixed some animation bugs instead.
You *are* aware that the entire reason for the rework is to NOT be where we are now? You seem to be missing the whole point. The point of the rework is to allow players to be a vampire if they *want* to play like a vampire. Not because "oh I get free recovery for doing nothing".
The rework is to stop people like you from taking vamp just because. Similar to how werewolf is taken by people who want to play a werewolf. Not because they have to.
^^this^^
I think this is a good change!!
I too have vamp characters for 2 passives and mist form. My sustain and survivability will take a knock as I will most likely have to drop vampirism and adapt.
It is a much better iteration of the skill line to be able to be a vampire rather than it just being another utility line. I am actually excited to watch vamps, werewolves and mortal duke it out! That's is worth the loss I my book 👍
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you want to play god-mode vampires, just play skyrim with mods/tgm.
I say both emokid and furry changes are very powerful.
Revealed new vampire abilities are freaking overpowered and you babies keep crying.
Passives give whooping -40% reduction to use them and they even have magicka recovery and leech..
If anything, those things need to be nerfed to ground so everyone wont be sparkling sucker.
The main issue is that the Vampire skill line fit a niche player base while the passives were useful to pretty much all builds. Im excited that vampire is getting love with a rework, but it's annoying that playing as one can gimp you even if you want to actually be a vampire and use the skills on whatever role you play without being a hinderance to your group. It's the drastic changes zos makes so late into the game that it throws people off.
Yes, people simply chose vampire for 10% recovery bonus because of sustain issues. The main skills were neglected and the passives were useful for so long, then it suddenly changed and now people are being bashed and criticized because they enjoyed a core part of Vampirism that was useful and very much intigrated and untouched.
Im fine with it being a gift/curse, but im annoyed that it's yet another drastic change that could result in the majority of players cureing it because hit them so hard.
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Toanis✭✭✭✭✭You *are* aware that the entire reason for the rework is to NOT be where we are now? You seem to be missing the whole point. The point of the rework is to allow players to be a vampire if they *want* to play like a vampire. Not because "oh I get free recovery for doing nothing".
The rework is to stop people like you from taking vamp just because. Similar to how werewolf is taken by people who want to play a werewolf. Not because they have to.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point is that this is still an MMO, where the majority of players is concerned with their char's viability while playing with or against other players or at least in content that is balanced with such players in mind.
Fire damage vs. recovery was pretty much balanced. For it to be worth it in PVP or fire-heavy dungeons/trials you had to build for a high base recovery to get the most out of the 10%. Just removing the recovery bonus and keeping the fire damage would already have made many consider whether they should stay a vampire for occasional roleplay or experimenting with vamp builds. With increased cost for all non-vampire abilities it's a no brainer. A few builds may benefit from the new abilities, and it's certainly nice roleplay, but in the end vampires will be ocassionally played niche chars, mostly used in solo play.
As for werewolf: lose frontbar ultimate, gain 15% stamina recovery. Balanced choice, no roleplay involved.Edited by Toanis on April 2, 2020 10:28AM4
