Supernatural Recovery

TheFM

Cuddler wrote: »

I have multiple vampire characters, and think the +5% cost increase per rank is perfectly reasonable. ZOS clearly wants to discourage people from getting vampirism for passives only. Those using some of the active abilities should not have issues. The more active vamp abilities you use, the more you benefit from the vamp cost reduction, and the less you suffer (relatively) from the non-vamp increase as you would use non-vamp skills less.

Just look at the rank 3 and 4 passives here: https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Vampire+Skills . They are ridiculously powerful. Undeath now starts at 100% and scales to -30% incoming damage. At half of your maximum health, that is -15%, twice more powerful than Minor Protection. I am not even going to comment on Unnatural Movement in PVP. Such powerful passives have to come with significant drawbacks.

5 % cost increase per level would make playing a stage four pure vampire mag sorc impossible, all our class abilities would be prohibitive expensive and our passives do not allow for close quarters combat. Even if we used all five vamp skills and the ulti, we would need to use five class skills, and streak, shields, and dark deal would be absurdly expensive. The rework for werewolf makes them more powerful too, but they get not even half of the vampire drawbacks.

They cannot make vampire stage four only viable for close quarters oriented classes, that would punish players for the class they chose.

Luckily it looks like these percentages are not what's going into live, as that is why they were supposed to be blotted out.

idk

Bradyfjord wrote: »

Perhaps crafted sets like Magnus and Seducers will help some builds?

They have always been bad sets for damage dealing.

Nerouyn

TheFM wrote: »

5 % cost increase per level would make playing a stage four pure vampire mag sorc impossible, all our class abilities would be prohibitive expensive and our passives do not allow for close quarters combat.

One of the morphs for the new drain essence restores magicka.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-new-vampire-lord-skillline-showcase/

WTF do you mean by sorc passives not allowing close quarter combat? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Sorc don't have any active class abilities which do close quarters damage, except for lightning form, but destruction staff has 2 morphs and the new vampire skills offer 2 more.

TheFM

You know what, I'm not gonna bother.

Kilcosu

20% increase cost huh... so they should feel 20% more powerful right?

I mean that's how they balanced werewolves and Everyone thought that was fair am I right???
@Chrlynsch lolol

TheFM

Kilcosu wrote: »

20% increase cost huh... so they should feel 20% more powerful right?

I mean that's how they balanced werewolves and Everyone thought that was fair am I right???
@Chrlynsch lolol

From what I understand none of the values we see are final. However it begs the question why were they so lopsided in the first place 😬

Vevvev

MagDK vampires are going to have maybe a bit better time with the vampire stuff.((Except for their class abilities which are super duper expensive)) Like for instance all the melee range stuff gets buffed from 5 meters to 7. Still all we can do is theory craft and nothing is final.... hopefully.

Chrlynsch

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

Oooo did you just say there are more negatives to being a Vampire than a Werewolf? I don't think you want me to get out the measuring stick.

SpiderKnight

If this goes through as it is now, all but one of my vamps will be visiting a Priest of Arkay.

TheFM

Chrlynsch wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

Oooo did you just say there are more negatives to being a Vampire than a Werewolf? I don't think you want me to get out the measuring stick.

Unless you get 20 percent cost increase on all non werewolf skills, 100 percent health regen Reduktion, 150 percent flame damage, and lose 10% regen, there is no competition.

Thevampirenight

Well I think they might have made the vampire abilties a bit powerful and useful along with the useful passives the vampires get.
Here is the thing, there is ways to reduce the cost of certain skills and abitlies and certain races like the breton have a passive that has 2 or 3 points in it decreases the cost of magicka abilties by 7%
Imperials have a passive that reduces the cost of all abilties by 3%
Well I do think they should reduce or remove the ability cost weakness.
If not that maybe remove some of their other weaknesses outside the skill line.
Fighters Guild and prismatic weapons yeah I know it would be a sad thing for vampire hunter builds and there is another thread talking about those.
So the weaknesses vampires will have.
Fire
Normal Ability Cost increase.
Fighters Guild
Prismatic Enchants
The Eso Vampire clan is shown to have an immunity to Sunlight and Sunlight Damage, maybe a natural resistance to Light Effects thus they could make Vampires Immune to Prismatic and Dawnbreaker effect.

Not all Vampires are week to silver, (SIlver weakness was a Elder Scrolls Skyrim addition. Before it just bypassed normal weapon resistance. So they could cut out the extra damage effect against Vampires from the Fighters Guild abilties.

I do think there is room for improvement when it comes to the Vampire.
But it should also be useful for players to use as well. With Drawbacks but not to many draw backs.
More balanced out so to speak.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Maybe they should remove the healing reduction or at least reverse it, why would a Vampire not heal after drinking blood? hell in Skyrim the Vampire Lord healed 1000 points of health for drinking blood but here our healing stops?

That makes no sense at all.

TheFM

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well I think they might have made the vampire abilties a bit powerful and useful along with the useful passives the vampires get.
Here is the thing, there is ways to reduce the cost of certain skills and abitlies and certain races like the breton have a passive that has 2 or 3 points in it decreases the cost of magicka abilties by 7%
Imperials have a passive that reduces the cost of all abilties by 3%
Well I do think they should reduce or remove the ability cost weakness.
If not that maybe remove some of their other weaknesses outside the skill line.
Fighters Guild and prismatic weapons yeah I know it would be a sad thing for vampire hunter builds and there is another thread talking about those.
So the weaknesses vampires will have.
Fire
Normal Ability Cost increase.
Fighters Guild
Prismatic Enchants
The Eso Vampire clan is shown to have an immunity to Sunlight and Sunlight Damage, maybe a natural resistance to Light Effects thus they could make Vampires Immune to Prismatic and Dawnbreaker effect.

Not all Vampires are week to silver, (SIlver weakness was a Elder Scrolls Skyrim addition. Before it just bypassed normal weapon resistance. So they could cut out the extra damage effect against Vampires from the Fighters Guild abilties.

I do think there is room for improvement when it comes to the Vampire.
But it should also be useful for players to use as well. With Drawbacks but not to many draw backs.
More balanced out so to speak.

I'm fine with drawbacks, but the cost increase on all non vampyr abilities is too much,luckily these aren't the final numbers.we already lost our regen, why should we lose regen AND increase cost, that's too much and is completely unfair. Not to mention unbalanced

TheFM

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe they should remove the healing reduction or at least reverse it, why would a Vampire not heal after drinking blood? hell in Skyrim the Vampire Lord healed 1000 points of health for drinking blood but here our healing stops?

That makes no sense at all.

Health regen hast always been low on vamps, and you could work around it, 100% is too much tho. There need to be drawbacks, but people need to be objective here. There shouldn't be so many drawbacks that your character is completely hobbled

Aznarb

Time to cure vampire char if no more sustain bonus, all the other effect are trash anyway.
Good thing, vampire are ugly.

MattT1988

Yep. Curing my tank the moment this patch drops. Oh well.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

TheFM wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe they should remove the healing reduction or at least reverse it, why would a Vampire not heal after drinking blood? hell in Skyrim the Vampire Lord healed 1000 points of health for drinking blood but here our healing stops?

That makes no sense at all.

Health regen hast always been low on vamps, and you could work around it, 100% is too much tho. There need to be drawbacks, but people need to be objective here. There shouldn't be so many drawbacks that your character is completely hobbled

So 20% fire weakness and a 20% cost increase is not enough?

Infact why do we get more pale by feeding, uhh we were pale because of lack of blood not because of too much blood.

Chrlynsch

TheFM wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

Oooo did you just say there are more negatives to being a Vampire than a Werewolf? I don't think you want me to get out the measuring stick.

Unless you get 20 percent cost increase on all non werewolf skills, 100 percent health regen Reduktion, 150 percent flame damage, and lose 10% regen, there is no competition.

The values show are pre-beta, they weren't even supposed to be released because they would spur pointless balance discussions.

Let's look at these apples and oranges, and for the sake of comparison let's not even bring up the fact that vamps can feed or not feed minimize or increase the drawbacks if they so choose, heck they can craft stacks of convenient food to move up or down their desired ranks.

4 vamp vs Werewolf form:

Vamp: 20% cost increase on all non vampire skills.
Wolf: Can't use non wolf abilies... so yeah...

Vampire: 40% decreased cost of Vampire abilities.
Wolf: 25% increased abiliy cost compared to human form abilities.

Vamp: 100 percent health regen reduction (uhh don't build for health regen?)
Wolf: 15% increased stamina recovery

Vamp: 20% weakness to fire
Werewolf: 25% weakness to poison

To me looks like vamp is ahead but if you really don't like your drawbacks. Just pop your ultimate:

Transform into a lord of night, instantly healing to full Health and increasing your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 10000 for 20 seconds.

While in this form, you heal for 33% of all damage you deal and you can see enemies through walls. You also temporarily ascend to Vampire Stage 5, which grants all the benefits of Vampire Stage 4 with none of the drawbacks.

StaticWave

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

According to a screenshot, Blood Frenzy gives 930 wd/sd for a mere 575hp/s cost, and one morph doubles the cost, but also doubles the wd/sd. That's 1800+ wd/sd, or 500 more wd than fury and new moon combined. It's a massive power boost which justifies the cost increase

Iskiab

Vampire looks like it’s way different then on live. The passives look familiar but stuff like the damage mitigation being on any percentage health and the skill cost increase will be huge.

propertyOfUndefined

To be honest, it was the loss of Supernatural Recovery that got to me at first, especially because I remember hearing “nothing is being taken away” months ago when we first learned of the coming vamp revamp. The cost increase to non-vampire abilities just “added insult to injury”.

I like that “Undeath” is being reworked and hopefully better offsets the health recovery and increased fire damage now. In my experience, it doesn’t do a good job of that on live unless paired with a set like Pariah. But in order to make use of the new passive, I’d have to increase the cost of all non-vampire abilities by 15%? That doesn’t seem balanced to me as far as costs vs benefits go.

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe sustain will change completely like we’re seeing on PTS today (the light attack changes) and this won’t be that big of a deal. I hope so, because I do enjoy playing vampires for RP reasons and was excited about Greymoor if only for that reason.

Saubon

As someone who has vampirism just for passives I love this change. I'm not saying I'm gonna keep it on my main, just on one toon. Now it's gonna be both, blessing and curse and only few people will use it and I'm pretty sure some pvpers (and gankers) will find a way how to exploit it for some crazy combos.

At stage 4 or 5 ultimate should cost 103 ult, fully stacked cold blood 691 health/s for 1860 weapon/spell dmg further buffed by other buffs like major/minor brutality, medium armor passive etc

Not to mention permanent +300 spell power for nightblades and *** sprint invisibility

Septimus_Magna

First of all, these numbers were supposed to be blocked out for a reason. There is a good chance this is just placeholder because the actual math and balancing is not finished.

The reduced fire resistance is already a massive debuff, adding something on top of that like a cost increase for non-vamp skills can only be justified if the damage increase is huge. And there's a huge risk for such a high damage increase balance-wise so Im curious to see how the numbers will turn out once the PTS drops.

Malmai

So vamp skill tree is more useless than molag kena was... Pfff

Tessitura

Well, it's certainly a tough sell, but trade off game play seems to be what they are going for with vamps now, there is a lot of abilites that seem to take from you to give to you.

Health for damage, negative passives for stronger ones, it's sort of a theme here.

Rikumaru

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

Vampire has a toggle which gives 900 - 1800 spell and weapon damage alongside giving 300 spell damage when coming out of mist.

Raudgrani

Seems like bye bye to having vampire for passives (recovery/mitigation), and bye bye for having vamp for ANYTHING but basically roleplaying as a vampire (because you surely can't do anything effectively with those 5 skills (gonna double bar them, or what do they really think)?

Add to that the "improvement for disabled people", meaning zero resource return for heavy attacks - Cyrodiil at least will be pretty void of vampires. I guess we will see occasional roleplayers attacking civilians around cities, to have the guards chase them etc.

I'm open for change all day long, but when it's like constant "turning things upside down", it gets really tiresome. I can't understand how ZOS thinks it's ok to constantly drastically change everything about the game. It's like them admitting they were wrong from start, and then when they buff/nerf same abilities again, it's like saying "we have no clue of what we are doing, but we will keep fiddling with these numbers until it gets right".

20% cost increase of non-vampire abilities? Holy h**l....

colossalvoids

It's in a strange spot rn, seems like vampire builds will be kind of different beast on its own compared to now and migh justify existence of sustain races. I personally do not like cost increase, at least more than 8-10% one for sure but we'll have pts for that pretty soon to adjust if people will be vocal.

Might be a better idea to add increase to vampire tree and not touch regular ones, but add a power up for a cost increase also (more powerful spell - more magicka drain). Anyway we have zero idea how's sustain gonna be in greymoor.

VaxtinTheWolf

Rikumaru wrote: »

Vampire has a toggle which gives 900 - 1800 spell and weapon damage alongside giving 300 spell damage when coming out of mist.

At least the proposed changes to Molag Kena make sense now. It was redesigned for vampires to use, to counter their stage 4 non-vampire skill cost increases. They'd still have a net damage gain while using it.

Raudgrani

VaxtinTheWolf wrote: »

Rikumaru wrote: »

Vampire has a toggle which gives 900 - 1800 spell and weapon damage alongside giving 300 spell damage when coming out of mist.

At least the proposed changes to Molag Kena make sense now. It was redesigned for vampires to use, to counter their stage 4 non-vampire skill cost increases. They'd still have a net damage gain while using it.

As always, they have already decided to do this, and go on all like "We have some ideas, but nothing is certain yet - how would you feel about....".