Supernatural Recovery

gatekeeper13

If these changes are final, I will cure vampirism in both of my tanks.

Remove recovery and increase skill cost? No thank you. You can keep dmg mitigation, its useless if I my resources are gone in the blink of an eye.

Tessitura

Raudgrani wrote: »

Seems like bye bye to having vampire for passives (recovery/mitigation), and bye bye for having vamp for ANYTHING but basically roleplaying as a vampire (because you surely can't do anything effectively with those 5 skills (gonna double bar them, or what do they really think)?

Add to that the "improvement for disabled people", meaning zero resource return for heavy attacks - Cyrodiil at least will be pretty void of vampires. I guess we will see occasional roleplayers attacking civilians around cities, to have the guards chase them etc.

I'm open for change all day long, but when it's like constant "turning things upside down", it gets really tiresome. I can't understand how ZOS thinks it's ok to constantly drastically change everything about the game. It's like them admitting they were wrong from start, and then when they buff/nerf same abilities again, it's like saying "we have no clue of what we are doing, but we will keep fiddling with these numbers until it gets right".

20% cost increase of non-vampire abilities? Holy h**l....

You don't think you are over reacting a little bit buddy? I mean, these are not even confirmed numbers and none of us have gotten to actually test how this works. People always panic when they look at the numbers on paper before seeing how things work in practice. You don't have to be stage four or three vampire, I bet a lot of builds will sit at lowers stages for a ability or two. Also where are you getting no sustain from you basic attacks from? It moved from heavy to light, its still there.

I bet vamp builds are going to be stronger for magicka players then you think, I already got a lot of ideas I want to try for my magicka toons.

Thokri

If you want to play god-mode vampires, just play skyrim with mods/tgm.

I say both emokid and furry changes are very powerful.

Revealed new vampire abilities are freaking overpowered and you babies keep crying.
Passives give whooping -40% reduction to use them and they even have magicka recovery and leech..

If anything, those things need to be nerfed to ground so everyone wont be sparkling sucker.

Xebov

I think ppl need to be a bit more honest here.

95% of all Vampires are just vampires for the 10% recovery and a minor amount of players for the damage reduction. Thats about it. For most players Vampire will not be an option after the rework because they never played it for the vampire, it was just a nice bonus that they took.

Both WW and Vampire will end up in a niche where players have a certain playstyle that cna make use and the majority of players will be back to normal, literally.

Raudgrani

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Seems like bye bye to having vampire for passives (recovery/mitigation), and bye bye for having vamp for ANYTHING but basically roleplaying as a vampire (because you surely can't do anything effectively with those 5 skills (gonna double bar them, or what do they really think)?

Add to that the "improvement for disabled people", meaning zero resource return for heavy attacks - Cyrodiil at least will be pretty void of vampires. I guess we will see occasional roleplayers attacking civilians around cities, to have the guards chase them etc.

I'm open for change all day long, but when it's like constant "turning things upside down", it gets really tiresome. I can't understand how ZOS thinks it's ok to constantly drastically change everything about the game. It's like them admitting they were wrong from start, and then when they buff/nerf same abilities again, it's like saying "we have no clue of what we are doing, but we will keep fiddling with these numbers until it gets right".

20% cost increase of non-vampire abilities? Holy h**l....

You don't think you are over reacting a little bit buddy? I mean, these are not even confirmed numbers and none of us have gotten to actually test how this works. People always panic when they look at the numbers on paper before seeing how things work in practice. You don't have to be stage four or three vampire, I bet a lot of builds will sit at lowers stages for a ability or two. Also where are you getting no sustain from you basic attacks from? It moved from heavy to light, its still there.

I bet vamp builds are going to be stronger for magicka players then you think, I already got a lot of ideas I want to try for my magicka toons.

Why would anyone think they are overreacting?

I've been playing this game for long enough, to know that "this is not final", usually means it is final. More or less, with small exceptions. Maybe they won't go through with EXACTLY this, but let's say they remove Supernatural Recovery altogether, and "only" add 10% cost increase to non-vampire abilities?
How many out of a 100 players do you think will keep vampirism on their characters, if the only reason they got it was because of extra recovery, maybe partly for mitigation on low health? I'm all for more or less including a whole new "class" into the game, but this is something that's been in the game from like start, and so many even paid for this (back in the days "in game gold", and even more have paid crowns for it), and now many or frankly most will need to remove it?

It's like "Yeah, I got vampire on these toons for extra recovery, but now I got 20% (or lets's say 10%, just not to "overreact") cost increase instead - that's awesome for sustain!", right?

EDIT: BEST solution of all, would be if you needed to do some quest AS a vampire, to get this new updated skill line/passives, just like in Skyrim. IF this was the case, I would say "Bloody awesome! Great work ZOS!" (pun intended). I might want a "vampire lord" vampire or two, but when I've got vampire on a toon solely to support weak recovery, this is like a joke.

Varana

I don't understand why players who took vampirism only for the regen buff, are now pretending to actually care about playing as vampires.
They're trying to make vampirism into a play style that you only take if you specifically build for it. And that's how it should be. They're shoehorning it more into the PvP side of things (no wonder when you see who's responsible for combat), though.
Apart from that, I very much applaud the loss of these passives that made players take vampirism even though they had absolutely no interest in playing as a vampire.

Tessitura

Raudgrani wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Seems like bye bye to having vampire for passives (recovery/mitigation), and bye bye for having vamp for ANYTHING but basically roleplaying as a vampire (because you surely can't do anything effectively with those 5 skills (gonna double bar them, or what do they really think)?

Add to that the "improvement for disabled people", meaning zero resource return for heavy attacks - Cyrodiil at least will be pretty void of vampires. I guess we will see occasional roleplayers attacking civilians around cities, to have the guards chase them etc.

I'm open for change all day long, but when it's like constant "turning things upside down", it gets really tiresome. I can't understand how ZOS thinks it's ok to constantly drastically change everything about the game. It's like them admitting they were wrong from start, and then when they buff/nerf same abilities again, it's like saying "we have no clue of what we are doing, but we will keep fiddling with these numbers until it gets right".

20% cost increase of non-vampire abilities? Holy h**l....

You don't think you are over reacting a little bit buddy? I mean, these are not even confirmed numbers and none of us have gotten to actually test how this works. People always panic when they look at the numbers on paper before seeing how things work in practice. You don't have to be stage four or three vampire, I bet a lot of builds will sit at lowers stages for a ability or two. Also where are you getting no sustain from you basic attacks from? It moved from heavy to light, its still there.

I bet vamp builds are going to be stronger for magicka players then you think, I already got a lot of ideas I want to try for my magicka toons.

Why would anyone think they are overreacting?

I've been playing this game for long enough, to know that "this is not final", usually means it is final. More or less, with small exceptions. Maybe they won't go through with EXACTLY this, but let's say they remove Supernatural Recovery altogether, and "only" add 10% cost increase to non-vampire abilities?
How many out of a 100 players do you think will keep vampirism on their characters, if the only reason they got it was because of extra recovery, maybe partly for mitigation on low health? I'm all for more or less including a whole new "class" into the game, but this is something that's been in the game from like start, and so many even paid for this (back in the days "in game gold", and even more have paid crowns for it), and now many or frankly most will need to remove it?

It's like "Yeah, I got vampire on these toons for extra recovery, but now I got 20% (or lets's say 10%, just not to "overreact") cost increase instead - that's awesome for sustain!", right?

EDIT: BEST solution of all, would be if you needed to do some quest AS a vampire, to get this new updated skill line/passives, just like in Skyrim. IF this was the case, I would say "Bloody awesome! Great work ZOS!" (pun intended). I might want a "vampire lord" vampire or two, but when I've got vampire on a toon solely to support weak recovery, this is like a joke.

Man, it sounds like you are just mad because you lost your 10% recovery, the new vampire stuff looks really strong to me, and it fixes a big problem with the skill line, that being, people only picking it up for the recovery. It's a whole skill line and if only one passive is what anyone wants then thats a bad skill line. Just wait dude, when you get crushed by a vampire in a few hits because they got all these stackable damage buffs running, you'll turn this bus you are on around then. With all that damage the increase to cost makes sense to me, 20% might be a bit much, but I won't know that until I get my hands on it to test it. I am honestly more worried about the weapon damage that one skill gives, cause it's going to make execute stam builds even more powerful.

Dracane

I am uncertain what to think of this.
Yes, vampire will have strong passives as it stands. But 20% cost increase is beyond comprehension.
A Werewolf has a rounded moveset that is fine to be used without class abilities. It works.

But vampire's abilities are not solitary at all. They add things to your class, but you could never do without them. Vampire does not make up for the loss of class abilities.

I have expected a maximum of 8% cost increase from this. Even this would have forced me to reconsider. But 20% settles it. Even 15% settles it for me. Magicka classes already have super expensive abilities and struggle with sustain.

Raudgrani

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Seems like bye bye to having vampire for passives (recovery/mitigation), and bye bye for having vamp for ANYTHING but basically roleplaying as a vampire (because you surely can't do anything effectively with those 5 skills (gonna double bar them, or what do they really think)?

Add to that the "improvement for disabled people", meaning zero resource return for heavy attacks - Cyrodiil at least will be pretty void of vampires. I guess we will see occasional roleplayers attacking civilians around cities, to have the guards chase them etc.

I'm open for change all day long, but when it's like constant "turning things upside down", it gets really tiresome. I can't understand how ZOS thinks it's ok to constantly drastically change everything about the game. It's like them admitting they were wrong from start, and then when they buff/nerf same abilities again, it's like saying "we have no clue of what we are doing, but we will keep fiddling with these numbers until it gets right".

20% cost increase of non-vampire abilities? Holy h**l....

You don't think you are over reacting a little bit buddy? I mean, these are not even confirmed numbers and none of us have gotten to actually test how this works. People always panic when they look at the numbers on paper before seeing how things work in practice. You don't have to be stage four or three vampire, I bet a lot of builds will sit at lowers stages for a ability or two. Also where are you getting no sustain from you basic attacks from? It moved from heavy to light, its still there.

I bet vamp builds are going to be stronger for magicka players then you think, I already got a lot of ideas I want to try for my magicka toons.

Why would anyone think they are overreacting?

I've been playing this game for long enough, to know that "this is not final", usually means it is final. More or less, with small exceptions. Maybe they won't go through with EXACTLY this, but let's say they remove Supernatural Recovery altogether, and "only" add 10% cost increase to non-vampire abilities?
How many out of a 100 players do you think will keep vampirism on their characters, if the only reason they got it was because of extra recovery, maybe partly for mitigation on low health? I'm all for more or less including a whole new "class" into the game, but this is something that's been in the game from like start, and so many even paid for this (back in the days "in game gold", and even more have paid crowns for it), and now many or frankly most will need to remove it?

It's like "Yeah, I got vampire on these toons for extra recovery, but now I got 20% (or lets's say 10%, just not to "overreact") cost increase instead - that's awesome for sustain!", right?

EDIT: BEST solution of all, would be if you needed to do some quest AS a vampire, to get this new updated skill line/passives, just like in Skyrim. IF this was the case, I would say "Bloody awesome! Great work ZOS!" (pun intended). I might want a "vampire lord" vampire or two, but when I've got vampire on a toon solely to support weak recovery, this is like a joke.

Man, it sounds like you are just mad because you lost your 10% recovery, the new vampire stuff looks really strong to me, and it fixes a big problem with the skill line, that being, people only picking it up for the recovery. It's a whole skill line and if only one passive is what anyone wants then thats a bad skill line. Just wait dude, when you get crushed by a vampire in a few hits because they got all these stackable damage buffs running, you'll turn this bus you are on around then. With all that damage the increase to cost makes sense to me, 20% might be a bit much, but I won't know that until I get my hands on it to test it. I am honestly more worried about the weapon damage that one skill gives, cause it's going to make execute stam builds even more powerful.

"Just like"? Of course I am, is there anyway I'm even trying to hide it? It's obvious, and I've never said otherwise.

I might want to play A (one, figuratively speaking) vampire, but it feels like a big, stupid and completely uncalled for change, to force more or less every player of this game, to pick between actually roleplaying as a vampire - having basically 5 skills to chose from, or cure the condition; and lose out on 10% recovery no matter what.

I am pretty sure 99% of all vampires in ESO are vampires for the recovery passives, a few of them also/or for the mitigation, and even fewer (in PVP) for the sneak passives. So why would I NOT be "mad" about it? I got it for a reason, now that's gone - and is being replaces with a 20% cost increase? That's quite some trade-off, isn't it?

TragedyOA

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

Wtf are zos doing to this game omg.

Raudgrani

Varana wrote: »

I don't understand why players who took vampirism only for the regen buff, are now pretending to actually care about playing as vampires.
They're trying to make vampirism into a play style that you only take if you specifically build for it. And that's how it should be. They're shoehorning it more into the PvP side of things (no wonder when you see who's responsible for combat), though.
Apart from that, I very much applaud the loss of these passives that made players take vampirism even though they had absolutely no interest in playing as a vampire.

Are you a vampire in real life, as you seem so offended by people going vampire for the benefit of 10% extra recovery?

I mean, it's clear ZOS has been working ever since Morrowind to decrease the tempo of the game, and make sustain worse, and worse and worse all the time - now they have the chance to almost globally decrease recovery by 10% across the whole game, because quite a lot of "endgame players" have vampire passives, for recovery alone. And we couldn't care less about vampires feeling offended because of some kind of "condition appropriation". It's there, and we got it for a reason.

If anyone wants to play vampire as VAMPIRE, great - I want it too, but not on all my current vampire characters. Some of them has a sustain so low, that I'll be forced to (once again..) rebuild them completely, if I get -10% recovery, don't even mention 20% cost increase. This isn't about vampire lore, it's about game mechanics.

Tessitura

Dracane wrote: »

I am uncertain what to think of this.
Yes, vampire will have strong passives as it stands. But 20% cost increase is beyond comprehension.
A Werewolf has a rounded moveset that is fine to be used without class abilities. It works.

But vampire's abilities are not solitary at all. They add things to your class, but you could never do without them. Vampire does not make up for the loss of class abilities.

I have expected a maximum of 8% cost increase from this. Even this would have forced me to reconsider. But 20% settles it. Even 15% settles it for me. Magicka classes already have super expensive abilities and struggle with sustain.

Well, I can see the angle they are fishing from... Think about this, you are right, the vampire abilities can be used with class abilites, thats why they brought the cost up, cause the vampire now has this one crazy ability that lets them berserk on people. That damage for health lost *** could get crazy for ranged attackes. Think of a blast bones and snipe with that active, think of frags and curse with that active? The damage those can do probably should have the ability cost reflect it once boosted by that ***.

Now I am not going to say 20% is the right number, but a cost increase does not seem that crazy to me, not yet anyway. I wanna test it before I judge it too much. It could end up beign trash, but I suspect its going to be a very strong skill line for magicka and even stamina builds. They probably should take the weapon damage off that blood ability so it can't be abused by the already super high spikes executions, and snipes get on stam builds.

TheFM

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe they should remove the healing reduction or at least reverse it, why would a Vampire not heal after drinking blood? hell in Skyrim the Vampire Lord healed 1000 points of health for drinking blood but here our healing stops?

That makes no sense at all.

Health regen hast always been low on vamps, and you could work around it, 100% is too much tho. There need to be drawbacks, but people need to be objective here. There shouldn't be so many drawbacks that your character is completely hobbled

So 20% fire weakness and a 20% cost increase is not enough?

Infact why do we get more pale by feeding, uhh we were pale because of lack of blood not because of too much blood.

No, the cost increase should be er ne a thing, we don't have it now, we shouldn't have it later. The health regen also shouldn't be 100%, there is no reason to increase the negative effects when we already lost our regen buff.

TheFM

Rikumaru wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

Vampire has a toggle which gives 900 - 1800 spell and weapon damage alongside giving 300 spell damage when coming out of mist.

Yeah, if you lose 500 health a second , which no non tank character in their right mind would do. Not everyone wants to play a40 k health tank. And again, these are pre beta numbers, it likely will not be that high. Even with that buff it is not a reason to increase all non vamp skills by 20 percent, that will make class, weapon, guild, and world skills all prohibitive expensive, and will force people if they want to play lvl 4 vamp to playmelee classes, and will severely punish ranged builds.

Curious_Death

Supernatural nerfs to best and unique combat mechanics will make game more attractive to masses, and makes loyal veterans game-less

Canasta

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

Hehe - "The nail in the coffin", good one, vampires sleep in coffins

TheFM

Curious_Death wrote: »

Supernatural nerfs to best and unique combat mechanics will make game more attractive to masses, and makes loyal veterans game-less

The massive negative effects and the shoehorning of us into using only the vamp skills is not unique, it'll make allvamp toons feel exactly the same. Hopefully these do not go live as is. Otherwise everyone playing vamp will use the exact same skills.

Curious_Death

TheFM wrote: »

Curious_Death wrote: »

Supernatural nerfs to best and unique combat mechanics will make game more attractive to masses, and makes loyal veterans game-less

The massive negative effects and the shoehorning of us into using only the vamp skills is not unique, it'll make allvamp toons feel exactly the same. Hopefully these do not go live as is. Otherwise everyone playing vamp will use the exact same skills.

was more about vamp + la changes together do not forget also about LA.
now i imagine heavy attacks in pvp hell yeah!

edit:
forgot about stamsorcs LA+RELE builds

Chrlynsch

I think all the players that are complaining about the 20% (not final) increase to ability cost are getting tunnel vision. Everything in this game must come with a trade off, and vampirism is the same way, otherwise you are going to get too much power and everyone becomes shoehorned into it. The nice thing about vampire is their ability to increase or decrease the amount of kiss curses that they currently have. There is a lot of moving parts here so let me try and break down what is going on.

Numbers are pre-beta and subject to change:

Stage 1:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-10% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -10%
-Flame Damage Taken: +5%
-Regular Ability Costs: +5%


Stage 2:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-20% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -40%
-Flame Damage Taken: +10%
-Regular Ability Costs: +10%


Stage 3:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-30% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -70%
-Flame Damage Taken: +15%
-Regular Ability Costs: +15%


Stage 4:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-40% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.
-Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
-If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -100%
-Flame Damage Taken: +20%
-Regular Ability Costs: +20%


Stage 5: Night Scion (Ultimate) 20s, Jumps to this stage.
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-40% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.
-Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
-If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
-Instantly heal to full Health and increasing your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 10000 for 20 seconds.
-You heal for 33% of all damage you deal and you can see enemies through walls.



Summary:
Vampirism should be a choice, if you choose to be at stage 4 (a true monster) you should be embracing the vampire skills more than your mortal skills, this offsets their cost increase.

It is your job as the player to figure out the cost of your disease and which stage suits your currect gamplay the best, or even if it is worth being CURSED.

TheFM

Chrlynsch wrote: »

I think all the players that are complaining about the 20% (not final) increase to ability cost are getting tunnel vision. Everything in this game must come with a trade off, and vampirism is the same way, otherwise you are going to get too much power and everyone becomes shoehorned into it. The nice thing about vampire is their ability to increase or decrease the amount of kiss curses that they currently have. There is a lot of moving parts here so let me try and break down what is going on.

Numbers are pre-beta and subject to change:

Stage 1:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-10% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -10%
-Flame Damage Taken: +5%
-Regular Ability Costs: +5%


Stage 2:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-20% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -40%
-Flame Damage Taken: +10%
-Regular Ability Costs: +10%


Stage 3:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-30% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -70%
-Flame Damage Taken: +15%
-Regular Ability Costs: +15%


Stage 4:
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-40% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.
-Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
-If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Cons:
-Health Recovery: -100%
-Flame Damage Taken: +20%
-Regular Ability Costs: +20%


Stage 5: Night Scion (Ultimate) 20s, Jumps to this stage.
Pros:
-Gain acces to All Vampire abilities (-40% cost).
-Ignore the Movement Speed penalty of Sneak.
-Decreases the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%.
-When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by 300 for 6 seconds.
-Reduces your damage taken by up to 30% based on your missing Health.
-Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.
-If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.
-Instantly heal to full Health and increasing your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina by 10000 for 20 seconds.
-You heal for 33% of all damage you deal and you can see enemies through walls.



Summary:
Vampirism should be a choice, if you choose to be at stage 4 (a true monster) you should be embracing the vampire skills more than your mortal skills, this offsets their cost increase.

It is your job as the player to figure out the cost of your disease and which stage suits your currect gamplay the best, or even if it is worth being CURSED.

Even if I embrace all the vampire skills on my mag sorc, I still have to use 50 percent of my normal abilities, which will prohibitive expensive. There is no justification for the cost increase of that magnitude. None. Never in the history of tes, or ESO have vampires had increases to cost on their normal abilities. Fire damage , health regen debuffs and the loss of resource regen is more than enough trade off.

It's not tunnel vision , it's being objective. It would be tunnel vision if we said we want no drawbacks, but that is, nor was ever the case. This will make all classes play exactl the same. Saying we should have tons of negative effects is just as narrow viewed as saying we should have no drawbacks on only perks.

Also, the form of vampirism we have in this game is not adisease, but a blessing bestowed upon us by lamae bal, the first of her kind, a pure vampire. It is significantly different to what you see in Skyrim, cyrodiil and many other places on tamriel, so it also flies in the face of ESO lore making us have that many negative effects.

xxthir13enxx

Anyone know what the timer is on Dropping Stages?
After reaching Stage 4 how long does it take to return....3....2....1?

Cuddler

TheFM wrote: »

Even if I embrace all the vampire skills on my mag sorc, I still have to use 50 percent of my normal abilities, which will prohibitive expensive. There is no justification for the cost increase of that magnitude.

You are being overly dramatic. If 50% of your skills cost 20% more, but the other 50% cost 40% less, your overall resource drain may actually decrease. It depends on how often you use each skill of course, but nobody is forcing you to be at stage 4. You have access to all vampire skills at stage 1, for a measly 5% penalty to your non-vamp skill costs.

TheFM

Cuddler wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Even if I embrace all the vampire skills on my mag sorc, I still have to use 50 percent of my normal abilities, which will prohibitive expensive. There is no justification for the cost increase of that magnitude.

You are being overly dramatic. If 50% of your skills cost 20% more, but the other 50% cost 40% less, your overall resource drain may actually decrease. It depends on how often you use each skill of course, but nobody is forcing you to be at stage 4. You have access to all vampire skills at stage 1, for a measly 5% penalty to your non-vamp skill costs.

Do you know how a magsorc plays? Melee classes will be at a MASSIVE advantage over me if I am forced to use the melee spammable. Every class should be viable as a vamp stage 1-4, regardless of class. And as is, this is not the case. Build diversity is the goal of this patch, and this is not it. If I decide to go into melee range, which is where I will be forced to be, I will be even more reliant on shields, and 20 percent cost increase to 2 seperate shields is going to be absurd. Especially with how weak they are now adays. Not to mention being in light armor at melee range is already a huge disadvantage against stam players.

Slimebrow

Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.

TheFM

Flubbles wrote: »

Vampirism shouldn't be used for passives in the first place and the rest forgotten about. I am glad they removed it if you don't like it get cured IMO. Sorry.

Vampires have always been about the passives mostly in every single TES game, and in ESO since the beginning. It isnt werewolf, and shouldnt play like werewolf. Vampires have always had tons of variety. You have powerful vampire mages, illusionists, rogues, warriors, etc, and that is how it should stay. If people want to play a blood warrior, which in essence is what we are getting, cool, but people should also be able to play a powerful vampire sorceress and not feel like they are being punished. We will already be giving up VERY powerful active abilities, why should we be punished further with SO MANY negative effects?

ImSoPro

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy

TheFM

ImSoPro wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy

So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.

ImSoPro

TheFM wrote: »

ImSoPro wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy

So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.

All I’m saying is there is alot of overreaction on this thread to numbers that are PRE PTS. They’re in no way final numbers. Give ZOS time to balance and us play test it then pass judgment.

TheFM

ImSoPro wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

ImSoPro wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Copied from another post

Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.

The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.

Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds

This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.

I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.

If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .

ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Stage 4 = 20% cost increase on any skill not in the vampire trees.

WOW. That's insane. I thought it would be 5% at the worst. Where is the damage increase to justify this extra cost?

I believe its the new passives and to balance them out.
When you leave Sneak, invisibility, or Mist Form you Spell Damage is increased by x for 6 seconds.
then there is this one.

While you are at Vampire Stage 4

Reduces the cost of Sprint by 50%.

If you continuously Sprint for 3 seconds you automatically become invisible.

Then of course there is the undeath passive.
Basically three good passives one great for spell casters one great for tanking and one great for ganking or gettting away.

Allows you to feed on an unsuspecting target, killing them increasing your Vampire Stage. Higher Stages make you a strong Vampire at the cost of your humanity. Stages decrease over long periods of time.

Stage 1/2/3/4

Health Recovery: -10%/-40%/-70%/-100%

Flame Damage Taken: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%
These numbers will be likely be changed up by the greymoor pts build but they could be the same as well.
By the looks of it they want vampires to have enough draw backs so everyone doesn't become them for their passives and abilties.
So these were taken from an older version of the greymoor build it was one they allowed players to access to but it was not the recent one from what I'm understanding so these numbers are likely not final. Or even would be the actual numbers.
So we will have to wait and see.

That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.

All these numbers are pre PTS. Y’all should relax and at least let greymoor get to the PTS before raging over the numbers. They are ridiculous but they’re pre PTS once again and ZOS said themselves “they aren’t balanced”. This is exactly why they didn’t want them leaked. Now everyone’s going crazy

So now well worded , thought out posts are raging and going crazy, and cool and collected responses are screeching? Smh.

All I’m saying is there is alot of overreaction on this thread to numbers that are PRE PTS. They’re in no way final numbers. Give ZOS time to balance and us play test it then pass judgment.

One still has to question why these numbers are so high in the first place? It is very worrying. And even more worrying is how some players are actually saying things like " good " to the numbers, knowing full well they are not balanced.

Langeston

TheFM wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

20% increase cost huh... so they should feel 20% more powerful right?

I mean that's how they balanced werewolves and Everyone thought that was fair am I right???
@Chrlynsch lolol

From what I understand bone of the values we see are final. However it begs the question why were they so lopsided in the first place 😬

What would make you say the 5/10/15/20% values are final? If anything, I think that may be old information, seeing as in one of the videos released yesterday the value of the cost increase they [unsuccessfully] blurred was 7% — which doesn't align with any of the numbers that people are talking about in this thread.

[edit] I just realized that "bone" = "none" so that kinda completely changes the entire meaning of your post, lol. In any case that is correct, and I suspect that the numbers will be lower than the current estimate.