Supernatural Recovery

Chrlynsch

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

Meh, harder to swing a sword cuz rigamortis. Boom

Vevvev

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

Wait..... that's actually a good idea. Make the stages reduce healing taken at stages 2-4 instead of increase ability costs.

Noxavian

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

Not going to lie, if vampire players were pretty powerful (At least on the level of the Vampire Lord from Skyrim, not talking about being a vampire lord, but they'd need to be considerably more powerful for this...) I would be 100% down for sunlight damage. I think it would be interesting.

I also think it'd be interesting if, as stage 4 vampires or vamps/ transformed werewolves in general, you could choose to attack players. You're a vampire! You, by definition, are a monster. Same for werewolf.

It'd open up a unique dynamic to the game.

If they did this, I would like to see a 'Dawnguard'-like group skill line added in for the mortals though. Either that or rework Fighters guild to be mortals only.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Noxavian wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

I think the 20% cost increase is terrible. Yes I get they get more damage through the move that drains health, but there is a big drawback to that move too as you can't be healed except by yourself.

Nma is only 5% increase this is 20% lol just crazy.

A fully monsterous Vampire (stage 4) should be embracing their 40% cheaper Vampire abilities. If a vampire character wants to utilize vampire abilies without losing too much of their humanity just stay at a lower stage.

If you can not accept the consequences of the curse, seek a cure.

That's what I'm saying. It's wack that these people expect vampire to be able to be used by people that don't want to....play as a vampire.

LOL.

You're arguing with min-maxers. They don't care about the intent behind the changes. They only care about the minuscule loss of dps/passive gains they may incur. Since they had absolutely no intention of using the full skill-line and was only tapping into it for the free passives they could care less about how this will benefit the skill-line as a whole. Thats why they're all screeching about unsubbing and dropping the skill-line as if thats some sort of viable threat to ZOS. This is the mindset of the min-maxer. They only care about what benefits them, screw everyone else.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I wonder if they could give werewolf access to a taunt but at +20% cost...

Chrlynsch

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

I wonder if they could give werewolf access to a taunt but at +20% cost...

Werewolves be looking at this thread scratching their head... So you can use both bars, your unique Vampire skills cost 40% less, and you can use any other abilities you want in the game but they cost 20% more? HOLY HIRCINE, where do I sign?!

StShoot

JinMori wrote: »

Ok, disclaimer, zos told the testers that they should grey out numbers because they were not balanced, but someone, do not know who it is, didn't and so, here we are with the 20 % cost.

But it's extremely unlikely it will go through like that.

As it is extremly unlikely that zos goes through with any of their unreasonable changes ? Sorry but zos track reckord has shown that they dont care about the wishes of the communety or about game ballance.

They get some random numbers, put them in the game and hope that noone will notice it.

Vampire has a toggle which gives 900 - 1800 spell and weapon damage alongside giving 300 spell damage when coming out of mist

Sooo lets be honest with this skill, with the curent changes there is only one build in pvp that will be able to use this ***, a bowtard. siting safe and piecefully on a wall or in sneak and spamming one button. Just imagen this:


Our imaganary bowhero, plays now one of this cool new selfdebuff sniper builds.

He uses Titanborn, unchained agressor, Equilibrium (which works in sneak) and the new awesome vampire toggle effect.

Yeah our bowhero is squishy, but he doesnt care, he never was much of a melee player himself.

Now he sees a player comming, he activates his vampire toggle, takes one of those self CC pots (or if our bowhero is a little bit scared, he uses newmoon instead of agressor, no need to take any unnecessary risks), casts 2 Equilibriums to gain the the maximum out of titanborn.

The bowhero stares a last time angrily at approaching Player, before he bravely presses his one button, and watches how his arrow flyes towards the targed. But whats that?! the player saw it coming (did he forget to cloak ?!) and activated spellwall just seconds before it hit. And the last thing our brave bowhero saw was his own arrow.... in his knee.

I think in a good story the hero has to take some hits


Jokes aside
None of the magica classes will be able to use it. Not the meele brawlers like mag dk or magplar and neither the ranged classes like mag sorcs. Even mag gankblades wont use it because you have to go melee and a toggle effect that costs live is to risky when you have to go melee. life costs aside, no magica class or stamina class can compensate a 10%/15%/20% resource loss.

So Zos butchered every build that relied on the dmg mitigation, the sustain or the mistform in order to push some skills that wil only be used in RP or in very heroic playstyles.

Dr_Ganknstein

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

WhyMustItBe

Xebov wrote: »

Both WW and Vampire will end up in a niche where players have a certain playstyle that cna make use and the majority of players will be back to normal, literally.

That is like my ultimate worst case scenario for how the overhaul ends up:

Taking something that feels good to play and turning it into something that feels bad!

I just hope they aren't really planning on making it hide cosmetic skins because that would seriously make me delete the game! XD

preevious

Good grief..

Yes, the cost increase is hurty-hurty, but damn..

Toggle on -> Put ST Dots (as they keep all the stat they had when cast, no matter what changes afterward)--> toggle off

If your healer heals you while toggled off, you'd deal some good, longterm damage

Throw in a quick sneak in, sneak out, wich does not take time and does not require a skill slot, and boom. Everybody bleeds.

Dr_Ganknstein

"Toggle on -> Put ST Dots (as they keep all the stat they had when cast, no matter what changes afterward)--> toggle off"

You can't toggle off the cost increase for using non-vampire skills. That's a trash change and should be adjusted dramatically.

Chrlynsch

Icky wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

Nothing is stopping you form using a weapon it's not like you do less damage with one, heck when you are in bloodrage you will do more damage than mortal.

As you rank up in vampirism and lose more of your mortality it becomes more difficult for you to maintain doing things that you once did because your body prefers to use it's new supernatural abilities. That is until you take The Night Scion form in which you become more powerful than any mortal and loose any negative condition of vampirism that was holding you back.

As for bringing up movies as reference for game balance, just count yourself lucky that you don't burst into flames during the daylight, only enter buildings with permission, have to sleep in a coffin during the day, burst into dust if poked with a stick, look at your girlfriend like she a cheeseburger while having a shovel face sparkling in the sunlight.

Elder scrolls vampires are differed, and now whatever ZOS says they are is what they are, they make the lore fit their game needs.

Dr_Ganknstein

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

Nothing is stopping you form using a weapon it's not like you do less damage with one, heck when you are in bloodrage you will do more damage than mortal.

As you rank up in vampirism and lose more of your mortality it becomes more difficult for you to maintain doing things that you once did because your body prefers to use it's new supernatural abilities. That is until you take The Night Scion form in which you become more powerful than any mortal and loose any negative condition of vampirism that was holding you back.

As for bringing up movies as reference for game balance, just count yourself lucky that you don't burst into flames during the daylight, only enter buildings with permission, have to sleep in a coffin during the day, burst into dust if poked with a stick, look at your girlfriend like she a cheeseburger while having a shovel face sparkling in the sunlight.

Elder scrolls vampires are differed, and now whatever ZOS says they are is what they are, they make the lore fit their game needs.

But Blade doesn't burst into flames from daylight.

preevious

Icky wrote: »

"Toggle on -> Put ST Dots (as they keep all the stat they had when cast, no matter what changes afterward)--> toggle off"

You can't toggle off the cost increase for using non-vampire skills. That's a trash change and should be adjusted dramatically.

I was referring, of course, to the skill that add 1k weapon/spell damage. wether that compensate a 20% cost increase remains to see, but it is certainly quite powerfull.

Chrlynsch

Icky wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

Nothing is stopping you form using a weapon it's not like you do less damage with one, heck when you are in bloodrage you will do more damage than mortal.

As you rank up in vampirism and lose more of your mortality it becomes more difficult for you to maintain doing things that you once did because your body prefers to use it's new supernatural abilities. That is until you take The Night Scion form in which you become more powerful than any mortal and loose any negative condition of vampirism that was holding you back.

As for bringing up movies as reference for game balance, just count yourself lucky that you don't burst into flames during the daylight, only enter buildings with permission, have to sleep in a coffin during the day, burst into dust if poked with a stick, look at your girlfriend like she a cheeseburger while having a shovel face sparkling in the sunlight.

Elder scrolls vampires are differed, and now whatever ZOS says they are is what they are, they make the lore fit their game needs.

But Blade doesn't burst into flames from daylight.

Blade isn't a vampire, he is a dhampir.

Alamakot

Ratzkifal wrote: »

new PvP siege weapon is called a "Magicka lance" which I assume is the one shown in the original ESO trailer "The Siege" that destroyed the walls, the one the elf was strapped onto. It will probably look a bit different but that's something you could call "the magicka lance". That's just my speculation though.

I do love your conception

Magicka Lance (siege weapon) empty:
While slotted, player targetting enemy player who has less than 6% HP may release Capture Synergy. Targeted player become unkillable captive for 3 minutes, bind to Lance owner with unbreakable beam (like this from engine guardian set) and unable to perform any action, is simply following capturer. Must be transferred (within those 3 mins, otherwise is released at own base) to War researcher at base, where is turned into live part of Filled Magicka Lance. Lance must be used within next 2 minutes against enemy keep/outpost, where its single beam of light causes damage of 75-80% current wall/gate HP. Captive is released at own base with full stats (the same if timer of Lance is out without using).

Noxavian

Icky wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is understandcally appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

Nothing is stopping you form using a weapon it's not like you do less damage with one, heck when you are in bloodrage you will do more damage than mortal.

As you rank up in vampirism and lose more of your mortality it becomes more difficult for you to maintain doing things that you once did because your body prefers to use it's new supernatural abilities. That is until you take The Night Scion form in which you become more powerful than any mortal and loose any negative condition of vampirism that was holding you back.

As for bringing up movies as reference for game balance, just count yourself lucky that you don't burst into flames during the daylight, only enter buildings with permission, have to sleep in a coffin during the day, burst into dust if poked with a stick, look at your girlfriend like she a cheeseburger while having a shovel face sparkling in the sunlight.

Elder scrolls vampires are differed, and now whatever ZOS says they are is what they are, they make the lore fit their game needs.

But Blade doesn't burst into flames from daylight.

that's because he's a daywalker, if you watched the blade movie you would understand this. He isn't a normal vampire.

MotownMurder

It's a tough one. On the one hand, I like the idea of making vampirism more of a conscious decision on the part of the user rather than something you just get for a stat boost. Like, I see a lot of people here saying that they're going to automatically cure vampirism just because they don't get a 10% regen buff, but honestly, that doesn't seem to me to be a dealbreaking issue. I think it's a fine idea to turn vampirism from being something you pick up just because, to being more of a conscious playstyle decision. In my mind, that's a good thing, and if it means people have to cure it because they have no interest in being a vampire beyond the 10%, well, that's how it goes. It's the same thing when stamina characters cured lycanthropy when they changed how that passive regen bonus worked

But there's a big problem here: The powers aren't enough.

I see a lot of people here wrongly jumping to the conclusion that "vampires will just have to make a vampire build," but as it stands just isn't something that's possible. You should certainly use the vampire skills if you're going to play a vampire, but the simple fact is that there isn't enough to work with here in this new skill line to make a "vampire build" out of. All it gives you is:

• A spammable
• A self buff
• a stun
• two situational utility skills
• a defensive ult

That's not enough for a build! Keeping the buff up and spamming eviscerate over and over is not a build! What about DoTs? What about an execute? There are no layers of damage here beyond the spammable and the buff for DPS, and there's absolutely nothing for healers. Tanks may get off the best of the three roles, but no matter who you are, you will absolutely need to lean on class and weapon abilities, even if you use your vampire powers to the fullest extent possible. You have to, because the vampire abilities by themselves are not enough. And once you dip your toe into non vampire abilities, the 20% bonus cost kicks in, and there goes all your sustain. Sustain is already going to get killed by the LA/HA changes, and if you throw this into the mix, there's absolutely nobody using anything even close to an acceptable build that will be able to stay on par with non vampires.

Put simply, if this goes to live in its current state, vampirism is going to go from being the optional risky buff that it is currently to being something absolutely no one is able to use effectively, where you'kk get kicked out of anything even moderately difficult for being a vampire. It seems weird to me that the developers would put so much effort into a skill line just to make it so that nobody will ever use it beyond RP purposes, but currently that's where it's headed unless if the sustain penalties are significantly reduced or removed altogether. Again, I'm not fundamentally against some sort of noticeable penalty for being a vampire in order to ensure that vampirism isn't mandatory for everyone. At its core, that sort of thing would be a very good idea and will increase build diversity. But it can't be this severe unless if we want vampirism to be completely useless.

Chrlynsch

MotownMurder wrote: »

It's a tough one. On the one hand, I like the idea of making vampirism more of a conscious decision on the part of the user rather than something you just get for a stat boost. Like, I see a lot of people here saying that they're going to automatically cure vampirism just because they don't get a 10% regen buff, but honestly, that doesn't seem to me to be a dealbreaking issue. I think it's a fine idea to turn vampirism from being something you pick up just because, to being more of a conscious playstyle decision. In my mind, that's a good thing, and if it means people have to cure it because they have no interest in being a vampire beyond the 10%, well, that's how it goes. It's the same thing when stamina characters cured lycanthropy when they changed how that passive regen bonus worked

But there's a big problem here: The powers aren't enough.

I see a lot of people here wrongly jumping to the conclusion that "vampires will just have to make a vampire build," but as it stands just isn't something that's possible. You should certainly use the vampire skills if you're going to play a vampire, but the simple fact is that there isn't enough to work with here in this new skill line to make a "vampire build" out of. All it gives you is:

• A spammable
• A self buff
• a stun
• two situational utility skills
• a defensive ult

That's not enough for a build! Keeping the buff up and spamming eviscerate over and over is not a build! What about DoTs? What about an execute? There are no layers of damage here beyond the spammable and the buff for DPS, and there's absolutely nothing for healers. Tanks may get off the best of the three roles, but no matter who you are, you will absolutely need to lean on class and weapon abilities, even if you use your vampire powers to the fullest extent possible. You have to, because the vampire abilities by themselves are not enough. And once you dip your toe into non vampire abilities, the 20% bonus cost kicks in, and there goes all your sustain. Sustain is already going to get killed by the LA/HA changes, and if you throw this into the mix, there's absolutely nobody using anything even close to an acceptable build that will be able to stay on par with non vampires.

Put simply, if this goes to live in its current state, vampirism is going to go from being the optional risky buff that it is currently to being something absolutely no one is able to use effectively, where you'kk get kicked out of anything even moderately difficult for being a vampire. It seems weird to me that the developers would put so much effort into a skill line just to make it so that nobody will ever use it beyond RP purposes, but currently that's where it's headed unless if the sustain penalties are significantly reduced or removed altogether. Again, I'm not fundamentally against some sort of noticeable penalty for being a vampire in order to ensure that vampirism isn't mandatory for everyone. At its core, that sort of thing would be a very good idea and will increase build diversity. But it can't be this severe unless if we want vampirism to be completely useless.

Again we are talking about stage 4 vampire, why not just stay in stage 1 if you are going to primarily using non vampire abilities, people have proven that a 5% cost increase is totally sustain via New Moon Acolyte and vampire's self buff Grants 2x as much weapon damage as new moon.

Also the vampire transformation is much more than a defensive ult, you gain 10k of each resource that's a good offensive buff, you also choose between an aoe damage, or drop negative effects associated with the condition.

Vevvev

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Again we are talking about stage 4 vampire, why not just stay in stage 1 if you are going to primarily using non vampire abilities, people have proven that a 5% cost increase is totally sustain via New Moon Acolyte and vampire's self buff Grants 2x as much weapon damage as new moon.

Also the vampire transformation is much more than a defensive ult, you gain 10k of each resource that's a good offensive buff, you also choose between an aoe damage, or drop negative effects associated with the condition.

Strange... By that reasoning the devs will have created the very same problem they were trying to avoid. Now I'll just stay at stage 1, look pretty, have all my vampire powers, and just ignore the passives completely. Why feed on people if it's only going to hurt you???

Chrlynsch

Vevvev wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Again we are talking about stage 4 vampire, why not just stay in stage 1 if you are going to primarily using non vampire abilities, people have proven that a 5% cost increase is totally sustain via New Moon Acolyte and vampire's self buff Grants 2x as much weapon damage as new moon.

Also the vampire transformation is much more than a defensive ult, you gain 10k of each resource that's a good offensive buff, you also choose between an aoe damage, or drop negative effects associated with the condition.

Strange... By that reasoning the devs will have created the very same problem they were trying to avoid. Now I'll just stay at stage 1, look pretty, have all my vampire powers, and just ignore the passives completely. Why feed on people if it's only going to hurt you???

Because some of those passives are very powerful is some Situations. It's your choice if the curse's gift is worth the drawbacks. But let's at least test it before demanding changes.

MotownMurder

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Again we are talking about stage 4 vampire, why not just stay in stage 1 if you are going to primarily using non vampire abilities, people have proven that a 5% cost increase is totally sustain via New Moon Acolyte and vampire's self buff Grants 2x as much weapon damage as new moon.

Also the vampire transformation is much more than a defensive ult, you gain 10k of each resource that's a good offensive buff, you also choose between an aoe damage, or drop negative effects associated with the condition.

The point I'm trying to make is that it's not a question of deciding between "stay in stage 1 and use non vampire abilities" or "be in stage 4 and use vampire abilities." That's a false dichotomy. Even if you decide to be in stage 4 and use every single vampire ability to the fullest extent possible, that still doesn't leave you with a playable character. There just aren't enough vampire abilities for that to be the case. There's no such thing as a "full vampire build" with the state of the update, that's just reality. Spamming one power over and over while you have a buff is not a build. The choice is between "stay in stage 1 and mostly don't use vampire abilities" or "stay in stage 4 and mostly don't use vampire abilities".

And I have to think the developers probably want people to feed, right? That's the whole point of the new feeding mechanic, and the "feeding makes you stronger" idea, right? The developers probably don't intend for Stage 4 to be a noob trap that gimps you, but that's currently how it is, so the game design should probably change to match the developers' intentions.

Vevvev

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Because some of those passives are very powerful is some Situations. It's your choice if the curse's gift is worth the drawbacks. But let's at least test it before demanding changes.

As a MagDK I stand my ground and fight. My DK passives will boost the melee range vampire ability and then my superior class healing skills, and rapid regen on healing staff, will keep my alive as I draw from the benefits of that one ability that gives me power.

Vampire is basically a beefed up version of NMA without having to really do anything to keep it up. I could care less about the passives since they don't favor an in your face warrior like myself.

x48rph

So I'll agree that 20% is to much but going to reserve judgement about ZOS's intentions until they at least release the PTS version. For all we know the numbers could of just been for internal testing with every intention of changing. I mean it's good to get in front of it now and let them know we think it's too much but not going to judge until they give us the patch for testing.

Tessitura

Vevvev wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is more thematically appropriate to the undead.

Wait..... that's actually a good idea. Make the stages reduce healing taken at stages 2-4 instead of increase ability costs.

Its a bad idea, it seems fitting but trust me, it would hurt a group more then the cost increase. The cost increase hurts you, but I am 100% sure it can be managed as long as it never goes over 20%, but perma healing reduction hurts a team, and the hurt stacks the more vamps you have in the team. Healers have to worker hard and drain more resources and you have to spend less time either tanking, doing damage, or healing others, just to keep your self up, so less time doing your job. It would cost everyone instead of just you.

Vevvev

Tessitura wrote: »

Its a bad idea, it seems fitting but trust me, it would hurt a group more then the cost increase. The cost increase hurts you, but I am 100% sure it can be managed as long as it never goes over 20%, but perma healing reduction hurts a team, and the hurt stacks the more vamps you have in the team. Healers have to worker hard and drain more resources and you have to spend less time either tanking, doing damage, or healing others, just to keep your self up, so less time doing your job. It would cost everyone instead of just you.

Not really because in PVP healers heal large groups of people just fine with that 50% healing debuff applied to everyone. If the healer is incapable of healing someone with a measly 20% healing debuff then I don't want them healing period. Their heals won't save the group when it really counts and everyone will be having to pop their self heals since the healer is so weak.

Now in PVP it would be a different story since it'd be applied on top of that 50% debuff already in place. It might actually be a better debuff considering that one toggle that hurts you over time, stops other people from healing you, and gives you an insane amount of power.

Speaking of that skill.... wouldn't using that skill alone be hurting the group as a whole? Healers won't even be able to even help that vampire in a fight since none of their heals can even touch them.

Tessitura

Vevvev wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

Its a bad idea, it seems fitting but trust me, it would hurt a group more then the cost increase. The cost increase hurts you, but I am 100% sure it can be managed as long as it never goes over 20%, but perma healing reduction hurts a team, and the hurt stacks the more vamps you have in the team. Healers have to worker hard and drain more resources and you have to spend less time either tanking, doing damage, or healing others, just to keep your self up, so less time doing your job. It would cost everyone instead of just you.

Not really because in PVP healers heal large groups of people just fine with that 50% healing debuff applied to everyone. If the healer is incapable of healing someone with a measly 20% healing debuff then I don't want them healing period. Their heals won't save the group when it really counts and everyone will be having to pop their self heals since the healer is so weak.

Now in PVP it would be a different story since it'd be applied on top of that 50% debuff already in place. It might actually be a better debuff considering that one toggle that hurts you over time, stops other people from healing you, and gives you an insane amount of power.

Speaking of that skill.... wouldn't using that skill alone be hurting the group as a whole? Healers won't even be able to even help that vampire in a fight since none of their heals can even touch them.

20% stacked on 50% stacked on 30%..... Are you sure its a good idea, man?

And that skill you are talking about can be turned on and off, so its not as bad as a 20% healing debuff turned on, all the time. Then in pvp you get hit with a pretty beastly amount of healing debuffs already, that will just stack with this passive one. It would be more punishing then the cost increase.

Vevvev

Tessitura wrote: »

20% stacked on 50% stacked on 30%..... Are you sure its a good idea, man? That skill can be turned on and off, so its not as bad as a 20% healing debuff turned on, all the time, then in pvp you get hit with a pretty beastly amount of healing debuffs already, that will just stack with this passive one. It would be more punishing then the cost increase.

Okay fine you raise a good point with the stacking debuffs but I rarely see it applied to me in Cyrodiil. But what about that skill though? Its a DOT on yourself with no way someone can heal you. If you get stunned you cannot turn it off before its too late and they turn you into ash.

Tessitura

Vevvev wrote: »

Tessitura wrote: »

20% stacked on 50% stacked on 30%..... Are you sure its a good idea, man? That skill can be turned on and off, so its not as bad as a 20% healing debuff turned on, all the time, then in pvp you get hit with a pretty beastly amount of healing debuffs already, that will just stack with this passive one. It would be more punishing then the cost increase.

Okay fine you raise a good point with the stacking debuffs but I rarely see it applied to me in Cyrodiil. But what about that skill though? Its a DOT on yourself with no way someone can heal you. If you get stunned you cannot turn it off before its too late and they turn you into ash.

Oh yeah it can easily bite you in the ass, but because you can turn it on and off, it becomes a test of your game sense and situational awareness, if you die because of it, its because you picked the wrong moment to use it, high risk high reward, and you failing is ultimately down to your ability to use the ability.

Dr_Ganknstein

Noxavian wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

Icky wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Chrlynsch wrote: »

If you are a full on Monstrous Vampire, feeding on the lifeblood of mortals, moving efficiently through the shadows, evaporating into mist, going into bloodrage, siphoning life force from your enemies, it is completely understandable that you have lost some of your mortality and doing things that used to be second nature to you (Mortal Abilities s) have become harder for you to perform, because your mortality is slipping away from you.

Yeah, because stabbing people is a very humanity thing to do.

I would've agreed with you IF vampires at stage 4 couldn't use weapons, but they do, and they do so flawlessly and always have.

Vampirism is a gift and a curse, an enhancement of the individual - Undeath grants them greater bones at the cost of their humanity and mortality. I.E, ability to interact with civil society, sun-damage, fire-damage, lust for blood and more. Not your ability to stab a dude.

Hell, in my opinion Stage 4 alone should be a criminal act. But I assume that I can keep dreaming, just as I can with my desire for actual sun-damage.

Alas, reducing healing taken/received would be a far more fitting middle-ground weakness that is understandcally appropriate to the undead.

But in almost every vampire movie they use weapons. Blade uses a sword..he stabs dudes all the time.

Nothing is stopping you form using a weapon it's not like you do less damage with one, heck when you are in bloodrage you will do more damage than mortal.

As you rank up in vampirism and lose more of your mortality it becomes more difficult for you to maintain doing things that you once did because your body prefers to use it's new supernatural abilities. That is until you take The Night Scion form in which you become more powerful than any mortal and loose any negative condition of vampirism that was holding you back.

As for bringing up movies as reference for game balance, just count yourself lucky that you don't burst into flames during the daylight, only enter buildings with permission, have to sleep in a coffin during the day, burst into dust if poked with a stick, look at your girlfriend like she a cheeseburger while having a shovel face sparkling in the sunlight.

Elder scrolls vampires are differed, and now whatever ZOS says they are is what they are, they make the lore fit their game needs.

But Blade doesn't burst into flames from daylight.

that's because he's a daywalker, if you watched the blade movie you would understand this. He isn't a normal vampire.

Edward Cullen doesn't burn up in sunlight though.