Feels like ZOS is actively trying to drive away veteran players

TheRealCherokeee3

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

Rave the Histborn

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

TheFM

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

Tsar_Gekkou

No matter how they change damage, it's still not gonna change the fact the many players will still just stand in an aoe and die like usual. People learning how to do damage is one thing, but knowing how to do a rotation doesn't mean you know how to do simple mechanics like blocking and stepping to the side when when the big hurty thing moves towards you. One of the main reasons this game can be super difficult for people, even in normal dlc dungeons isn't because their damage sucks, but because of their lack of awareness. If someone tells you to raise your hand and your neanderthal brain takes 10 seconds to process that request before your body reacts, it doesn't matter if you could punch a saber-toothed tiger to death, you're still gonna fail. Zos needs to make some kind of in-game tutorial on how to block and dodge aoes and mechanics. That's what will help people get better at this game. If they can stay alive longer, they can learn to do more damage outside of hitting a test dummy.

Klad

OmniDo wrote: »

This isn't surprising.
As someone who has played MMO's since Starwars Galaxies, this has been a trend for nearly 20 years.

Z0$'s goal is Money.
That's it.
Nothing else.
Never has been anything else.
Games aren't produced for their aesthetic or nostalgic value.
They're produced to make a profit.
End of story, move along people, nothing here to see.

If their proposed changes increase potential profitability, then they will be pushed through.
In gaming, as in life, the majority consist of the willfully mediocre.
Mob-rule always wins, unless your are Thanos.

Sigh, and I was really enjoying the run of this game based upon its meritocracy and performance-based consequence design.
Oh well, perhaps it is time to move on to yet another game where skill and effort matter.

Cool cool cool....see you in a couple hours where you will be whining about something else.


Seriously...all I'm seeing is an exodus of L33t d00ds...which won't actually happen, because they just can
stay away.

Rave the Histborn

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

TheRealCherokeee3

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

Damn you got the nerd snark down pretty good. I dont remember even trying to start a sarcasm war with you in the first place when I was replying to FM? Did we do something particular to ignite the Dwight Shrute in you to such epic levels? Whatever I did...sorry?

TheFM

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

If you think halo 3, Halo Reach, CoD MW, BO 1 and 2, Gears of war 1, 2 and 3 on Xbox did not require significant skill in MLG matches, then I dont even know what to say xD.

Universe

Actually the game will be a lot more interesting with the proposed changes to Light/Medium/Heavy attacks.
Instead of spamming light attacks like an elite vet potato you would combine medium and heavy attacks for a change
Best of luck, adapting to this should be a no-brainer for you because you're an elite

Jaimeh

Arca94 wrote: »

Stating that you don't want to reward players who have invested their personal time and put a lot of effort into understanding the game and its mechanics, seems utterly nonsensical to me.

This. I came to ESO from a non-gaming background, and to say it has been a steep learning curve would be a huge understatement. I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to improve, and I'm really happy with all the things I have achieved. Changing essential combat features that reward practice and effort is a slap to all those players who have worked hard to improve their damage, and actually find that aspect of the game enjoyable and rewarding. There were other ways they could have broached the skill gap, nerfing light attacks, buffing heavy attacks, providing sustain with other means, so that new players could be more powerful, and old players wouldn't need to adapt to a whole new system 6 years in the game, not to mention having to put up with slower, more boring, less challenging combat. This way they're turning their back to all the end-gamers who have poured their time into extending gameplay into its furthest potential. There is a reason why the game has so many features, and that is to cater to a wide audience; in reality end-gamers have very little, we're still occupying ourselves with vMA for example, a content released many years ago. Looking at the two new dungeons, you can tell a more casual approach is where we're headed. They were beautifully designed, truly brilliant and fun, but it terms of difficulty or challenge? Not so much. And that has less to do with power creep, but simply with the design of the dungeon itself. Coupled with the fact that HM does not award a specific item, like a skin or a personality, it's a loud and clear statement on which part of their playerbase they're aiming to please the most. Very saddening, because it's the harcore players who test things, who find bugs, who come up with clever strats for mechanics, and who play the game beyond its limits.

Tandor

It depends on what is meant by "veteran" players. I suspect that whenever that word is used on the forum what is really meant is "pure endgame" players - and the game is about so much more than that small number.

I'm a veteran player in that I've played since PC launch, and I have never had a problem with past changes to the game. I've adapted to them very easily, whenever I've noticed them. And no, I don't spend my time picking flowers or furnishing my houses. As for firmly proposed changes on the final PTS cycle I've tended not to participate in testing, but with speculative suggested changes that are off-cycle in order to generate some early feedback, I might well take a look.

Cążki

ESO HASNT ANY END GAME FOR VETERANS ! CYRO IS BIG MESS FOR NOTHING. YOU GOT JUST REPETRABLE. ZERO SYNERGY BETWEN OPEN WORLD - PVP - STORY- environment. EVERY experience is splited. So if you go for open world on end game on 810cp for quests- the dificulty level is compare to " open the book on the table " -(I mean open world dificulty especialy you cant play well with your firends because all stroy is prepered for one player experienced ) ekhm ok, when you feel lonely, you go to Cyrodil to beat some pvp, and then you feel you are just an piece of shiet because as a one person you can't do much and ok when you find pvp guild then pvping in cyro is fun after you realize its just fighting for nothing. ON ok when your mates back from work you go for vTRails and vDungs ok over and over again same shiet. YOU FARM SETS TAHT ODID NOT CHANGY ANTYHING just 1-3% of dps. CP are DEAD. so you can be 3000cp and 810 cp any didiference nothing. So In my opinion. Im just waiting for some changessss.....call me when the change something here.

Cążki

WHy ZOS dosnt make a kind of for example map as Craglorn but with ZONE WITH any creature has 1mil HP and on the last door you meet 1000mil hp creature and this place isn't a dungeon its just an open world place where players can fight against each other for special very hard mobs...


-after 5 years of playing this game im not understand. WHY CORN FLOWER grow on Wrothgar in snow and alkirs desert on sand ? WHY Every type of flower grow on every map. Why not make end game flowers only drop in oNLY ONE PLACE IN CYRO where players will fight each other for better potions ? DO YOU SEE THIS ? ZOS

Deathlord92

Arca94 wrote: »

Overhauling the combat seems entirely unnecessary to me, but I personally could live with the changes. That's not what this discussion is about.

What's much more concerning to me is this quote from Gina's original post:

"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

This comment is so backwards it's scary. Why would rewarding players for playing as 'efficiently as possible' be a "drawback"?

Instead of lowering the ceiling and raising the floor of player skill you should be aiming to effectively teach your players how to use your mechanics to their full potential, with the payoff being better results in endgame PvE/PvP. This should be a rewarding experience. Stating that you don't want to reward players who have invested their personal time and put a lot of effort into understanding the game and its mechanics, seems utterly nonsensical to me.

As someone who's dedicated a lot of time to understanding and constantly improving in this game, I feel completely alienated by this post. We've all seen it coming, ZOS has been dumbing down this game for some time, but to actually come out with this confirmation statement is extremely disheartening to me.

Completely agree with this only thing that makes sense honestly is heavy attacks doing more damage then light attacks.

Rave the Histborn

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

If you think halo 3, Halo Reach, CoD MW, BO 1 and 2, Gears of war 1, 2 and 3 on Xbox did not require significant skill in MLG matches, then I dont even know what to say xD.

No, they don't take significant skill lol. I mean the Halo 3 is probably the most unique among the games you're referencing but that's just a Quake clone in the end and Halo: Reach came out in a time when every FPS was trying to emulate CoD games so if you have a grasp on those games you're good to jump in. As for CoD games, once you have one down, you have them ALL down. That's the basis of the formula, don't do anything new, don't do anything spectacular, don't even improve on your own formula, just churn out the exact same game for the Christmas season.

Cadbury

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

If you think halo 3, Halo Reach, CoD MW, BO 1 and 2, Gears of war 1, 2 and 3 on Xbox did not require significant skill in MLG matches, then I dont even know what to say xD.

No, they don't take significant skill lol. I mean the Halo 3 is probably the most unique among the games you're referencing but that's just a Quake clone in the end and Halo: Reach came out in a time when every FPS was trying to emulate CoD games so if you have a grasp on those games you're good to jump in. As for CoD games, once you have one down, you have them ALL down. That's the basis of the formula, don't do anything new, don't do anything spectacular, don't even improve on your own formula, just churn out the exact same game for the Christmas season.

I was more of a CS:GO and TF2 kind of player

Rave the Histborn

Cadbury wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

If you think halo 3, Halo Reach, CoD MW, BO 1 and 2, Gears of war 1, 2 and 3 on Xbox did not require significant skill in MLG matches, then I dont even know what to say xD.

No, they don't take significant skill lol. I mean the Halo 3 is probably the most unique among the games you're referencing but that's just a Quake clone in the end and Halo: Reach came out in a time when every FPS was trying to emulate CoD games so if you have a grasp on those games you're good to jump in. As for CoD games, once you have one down, you have them ALL down. That's the basis of the formula, don't do anything new, don't do anything spectacular, don't even improve on your own formula, just churn out the exact same game for the Christmas season.

I was more of a CS:GO and TF2 kind of player

I couldn't get into TF2 but TFC was fantastic! CS:GO i still play every now and then, especially with everything going on.

JinMori

As i said in other posts, if they wanna do this correctly they should do this.

Add the damage back to abilities for what we have lost from light attacks, and light attacks should do about half the damage that we have currently on live. Otherwise the meta will shift towards a slower more heavy attack based meta, which a lot of people me included would not like. But at least this way you would have a choice between light rotation, heavy or a mix of both.

The problem though is still bash, it might become a requirement for really good dps, and i am not looking forward to that, there is a point where a rotation just becomes a little too intensive for my liking, and i feel like bash weaving hits the point for me where it's too much. I can do it, but i will probably not enjoy it. And if the game completely shifts towards heavy attack, well so long.

What they could do for bash instead is not much to be honest, they can nerf bash to basically just become a tool for interrupts, but i really need to think of another solution because i do not like nerfing.

Unfadingsilence

Definitely

https://youtu.be/is7wtspBdUA

JumpmanLane

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Yeah, the silent majority who spams light attacks now and take 5 minutes killing a mudcrab, will spam light attacks in the future and get KILLED by a mudcrab, but die with Max resources lol, while role playing by a creek. LMFAO.

Thank you for at least illustrating my point about the forums. I love how "hard core" players like to equate "casual" with *incompetent.*... Ultimately, with attitudes like this, maybe it would be better for the game if the proposed changes led some of the so called veteran players to leave...

Well a hit dog WILL holla...well casual usually DOES mean less skilled. I wouldn't say incompetent. ZOS yapping about "skill gaps" confirms that.

At any rate, anyone self-defining as "casual" should be outraged by ZOS's attempts to do anything to lessen the skill gap, cause then there'd be no difference between a casual and an outright noob.

There's more to being skilled than light attacks weaving. There's a certain gap in knowledge that comes from experience that even ZOS's mighty hammer can't nerf away.

I MIGHT just stick around and prove that point. Lol. Start tbagging some of these folks again. Dueling anybody standing still, like I used to. I ain't gonna mudball role players though. That's just mean! Hehehe 😋

Paidkilla wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Larcomar wrote: »

Changes seem pretty sensible to me. I don't get why heavies don't restore - I think it would make more sense to just have them do 2 or 3 times what LAs do, depending on cast time - but anything that gets us away from the current meta of rapidly mashing buttons in static rotations has to be good for the game.

I get that that's what you need to do to "git gud" and some people genuinely seem to enjoy it, to the point they'll stand in front of a target dummy practicing their rotation for hours. But for me, that seems more like a minimum wage job than a way I want to spend my free time. I abandoned any "aspirations" I had to play that part of the game pretty rapidly.

This will, ofc, negatively impact a small number of people who've practiced and perfected their weaving and rotations to the Nth degree. But, ultimately, ESO's niche is that it's pretty casual friendly in comparison to many MMOs, and it makes sense for ZOS to play to its strengths. Design for the 90% of players, not the relatively small number of self identifying "elite" players.

In practice, I suspect this won't come to pass and it's all a bit of a storm in a tea cup. Leaving aside that the population of the PTS server is heavily skewed towards the latter group - how many "casual" players do you know who play on the test server? - the hard core players tend to be the vocal ones - just look at these forums - and drown out the largely silent majority who probably wouldn't mind this change.

Yeah, the silent majority who spams light attacks now and take 5 minutes killing a mudcrab, will spam light attacks in the future and get KILLED by a mudcrab, but die with Max resources lol, while role playing by a creek. LMFAO.

The silent majority is a dangerous opponent to gamble against, Take the real world for example. For every forum grip on this site, how many feedbacks are sent in on the game you have no idea about. People screaming on these forums might actually be the small minority.

ZOS don't listen to feedback ANYWAYS, so who cares. Zenimax (AND Bethesda) only goes into panic mode when the money stops rolling in. Then and ONLY then do they consider, that maybe JUST maybe they screwed up a game or something. Until then, any silly idea ANYBODY dreams up and doubles down on makes it into their games...and their coders aint rock stars...like...ROCKSTAR'S lol. They make pretty worlds though.

Sorbin

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

TheRealCherokeee3 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Ascarl wrote: »

Look again at their aim
"There are, however, several drawbacks to this model as well. First, it tends to reward players for pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible."

The are saying that pushing buttons as quickly and efficiently as possible is a drawback. They are not saying complex combat would be a drawback.

They are saying people that practice to make perfect is somehow a draw back, and thats the most ridiculou thing I have ever heard. Imagine if CoD devs were like " we are decreasing head shot damage because we dont want there to be a skill gap between people who can aim and those who cannot "

I was totally thinking of that example earlier. But you know the reply coming hot on the heels of that will be "oh please not another fps comparison. This is an mmo ect". Your totally not wrong lol it's a great example but im sure you too have perused thread after thread on this and this isn't going away. The long term players certainly are lol but not these changes. Small tid bit on a fps like COD; if you do have slow button mashing your going to not have much gaming in there. But ESO? there's PLENTY to do in the game other than just pvp and vet/hard mode trials. Plenty. Yet big changes are being made inspite of the plethora of options that dont utilize ani cancel and fast paced combat. COD? no changes. Yet...somehow they do just fine. Ah well...practice makes perfect in COD, and err crafting makes cool outfits in ESO

Have you ever played COD? Lol The games dont change because they're made to be as cookie cutter as possible to put out once a year and maximize money. They don't balance because that would be less profitable, not because they're stellar games by any means.

Also when has practice ever helped in CoD? How would practice help in CoD when every game has a cheater in it?

That's cool man. If I primarily played MMOs only...I probably would have said exactly the same things you did. Different worlds. @TheFM comment still makes sense to me and him.

LOL That's cool man, if CoD is your only FPS experience I can understand why the comment makes sense but if you've got experience playing video games in general you'd realize why it's a bad analogy.

I used to play halo in mlg , gears of war and cod. So I have enough experience kthnxbye.

So Halo and CoD experience, sounds about right

If you think halo 3, Halo Reach, CoD MW, BO 1 and 2, Gears of war 1, 2 and 3 on Xbox did not require significant skill in MLG matches, then I dont even know what to say xD.

No, they don't take significant skill lol. I mean the Halo 3 is probably the most unique among the games you're referencing but that's just a Quake clone in the end and Halo: Reach came out in a time when every FPS was trying to emulate CoD games so if you have a grasp on those games you're good to jump in. As for CoD games, once you have one down, you have them ALL down. That's the basis of the formula, don't do anything new, don't do anything spectacular, don't even improve on your own formula, just churn out the exact same game for the Christmas season.

Halo is literally nothing like Quake lmao. The Halo franchise does have an enormously high skill gap, particularly the original trilogy. CoD is played competitively almost purely because it's popular and Activision shells out the dough to maintain a viable pro scene.

Lysette

brandonv516 wrote: »

Video games are tools for our brains so we can be sharper with real life tasks.

And they now want us to be stupider.

you won't get any smarter or sharper by learning a button mash rotation though.

bellanca6561n

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

all the self professed "veterans" and "skilled" players that spent half their time noob bashing will now have to L2P all over again without the crutch of A/C, your 90k target dummy dps parse will be a thing of legend in years to come, but for now prove you are the skilled players you claim, rise above the proposed changes.

I've yet to encounter someone using a crutch who didn't need to in order to walk. Thus I've always found that word, so often used in this context, utterly bewildering.

Blacknight841

Why would they care about us veteran players, we are a dying breed. New players use crowns to try and catch up in the game, failing to realize the endless streak of failed updates, empty promises, and disappointing content. Then they will also quit, making room for new players that are just as blind. They also have a lot less bad press if all the veteran players are driven out. If they wanted to at all do this game any justice, they would start by dealing with the bots and those that violate the terms of service.

Wihuri

From a pvp standpoint I think the changes will be interesting. It also feels intuitive to hit hard when you charge up a heavy attack and to hit a small amount of damage when you only tap quickly with your weapon. Opens up some burst combos again.

TheFM

Wihuri wrote: »

From a pvp standpoint I think the changes will be interesting. It also feels intuitive to hit hard when you charge up a heavy attack and to hit a small amount of damage when you only tap quickly with your weapon. Opens up some burst combos again.

Light attacks already do less damage than heavy attacks 😒

JumpmanLane

TheFM wrote: »

Wihuri wrote: »

From a pvp standpoint I think the changes will be interesting. It also feels intuitive to hit hard when you charge up a heavy attack and to hit a small amount of damage when you only tap quickly with your weapon. Opens up some burst combos again.

Light attacks already do less damage than heavy attacks 😒

EXACTLY! Lol.

Iskiab

I don’t see what the hubbub is all about, it’s just another change. There have been a ton lately.

It also makes sense to change the combat system. People who’ve been playing the game for a while like it, but I still go on other forums like the FoH forums (old timer MMO forums dating back to EQ). Number one complaint about the game is people don’t like the combat.

JumpmanLane

Iskiab wrote: »

I don’t see what the hubbub is all about, it’s just another change. There have been a ton lately.

It also makes sense to change the combat system. People who’ve been playing the game for a while like it, but I still go on other forums like the FoH forums (old timer MMO forums dating back to EQ). Number one complaint about the game is people don’t like the combat.

I thought about quitting if this went live; but I got a heavy armor magdk broken af build that would benefit from this crap. So I don't care WHAT they do. I'll play but I ain't giving them ANY more money.

My Greymoor refund just hit my account lol. I'm good.

Drdeath20

It should be the other way around but the almighty dollar is the reason we have the game in the first place.