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The player/rper issue with the mudball/snowball memento and harassment of rpers
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
2 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭I dont see normal players here raging about rpers, but i do see rpers raging about normal players, about 8 pages of it.
The bottom line is that if you cannot get along with the rest of the community in public areas, then you should move to private areas like housing, which have a large player count cap. You are refusing to accept that logical solution, and demanding the entire system change to accommodate you.4 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
No players have been temp banned for using momentos. Thats literally the subject of the thread.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
No players have been temp banned for using momentos. Thats literally the subject of the thread.
It's cute that you think that. There's actually been a few, but okay omnipresent Linda.Edited by Sephyr on March 26, 2020 7:57AM1 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
No players have been temp banned for using momentos. Thats literally the subject of the thread.
It's cute that you think that. There's actually been a few, but okay omnipresent Linda.
incorrect, which should be obvious by this 9 page thread full of rpers demanding a change. if using momentos was bannable, this thread wouldnt exist.1 -
Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
No players have been temp banned for using momentos. Thats literally the subject of the thread.
It's cute that you think that. There's actually been a few, but okay omnipresent Linda.
incorrect, which should be obvious by this 9 page thread full of rpers demanding a change. if using momentos was bannable, this thread wouldnt exist.
So you're present for every instance of someone getting temp banned? That's cool. Wash your hands.1 -
Haywire30✭✭✭I dont see normal players here raging about rpers, but i do see rpers raging about normal players, about 8 pages of it.
Provide ONE quote of an RPer in this thread raging about normal players. Specifically singling out normal regular players and not griefers.The bottom line is that if you cannot get along with the rest of the community in public areas, then you should move to private areas like housing, which have a large player count cap. You are refusing to accept that logical solution, and demanding the entire system change to accommodate you.
It's illogical when RP events feature more players than the housing will allow. RPers are MORE than happy to get along with the rest of the community. We only have one tiny eensy request....
Don't go out of your way to grief us.
Is that too much to seriously ask?5 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭
Again. This isn't about the odd mudball or two. This is about a concerted effort to intentionally ruin our fun and drive us away.
This^
People hiding behind the mudball argument aren't really getting it and I don't expect them to. But I do love how karma works when they get temp banned.
No players have been temp banned for using momentos. Thats literally the subject of the thread.
It's cute that you think that. There's actually been a few, but okay omnipresent Linda.
incorrect, which should be obvious by this 9 page thread full of rpers demanding a change. if using momentos was bannable, this thread wouldnt exist.
So you're present for every instance of someone getting temp banned? That's cool. Wash your hands.
The thread is full of rpers claiming they have been “harassed” by mudballs for months/years, and demanding a change. If you have evidence of anyone being banned for momentos, feel free to post it, else your statement is incorrect.
And yes, everyone should wash their hands for 20 seconds!Edited by Lowbei on March 26, 2020 8:27AM3 -
SeaGtGruff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »This! Harassment has an actual definition to it and part of being harassed is it has to continue over an extended period (not just 1hour) and you need to also make attempts to get away from the person bothering you.
What?
So if I'm at a bar and a guy comes to up to me and starts sexually harassing me and I ask him to leave and he replied with "Only if you leave with me." I'm supposed to leave the bar instead of telling the establishment I have an issue?
Just... what???...
And ONE HOUR of repetitive action doesn't count as harassment??? What the hell is an extended period of time to you? Hey throw me your address so I can ring your doorbell for 1 hour everyday. It's not harassment; and you also need to leave your house so you can get away from me bothering you.
Do you understand how terrible your logic is? I'm really hoping you're saying all that sarcastically.
That behavior wouldn't even need to continue for 15 minutes to be considered harassment.
It's difficult to understand why some people in this thread believe that (1) if something occurs in a virtual environment then it doesn't qualify as harassment, (2) if it doesn't continue for at least X amount of time then it doesn't qualify as harassment, and (3) if the person being targeted by the behavior doesn't try to get away or tell the other person to stop then it doesn't qualify as harassment.I've fought mudcrabs more fearsome than me!6 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭It appears that the OP got the answer to their question via ZOS posting on the thread but ignoring the topic, for obvious reasons. I understand that you disagree with it, but its not up to you to decide if ability or momento use is against the ToS.Edited by Lowbei on March 26, 2020 8:40AM0
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Haywire30✭✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_AntonioP
Is it at all possible to get an actual official word on this issue one way or another? Does Zenimax view the extended use of mementos and other in-game tools to grief RPers as harassment under the terms of service or no?
Your silence on this issue, sadly, is deafening and serves only to embolden those elements of the community that seek to try and drive us away from our hobby.
TLDR of 'Solutions'
Ignoring them doesn't work.
Playing along doesn't work.
Moving elsewhere doesn't work as housing provides neither the environment nor the space required for players to partake in anything other than social RP.4 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_AntonioP
Is it at all possible to get an actual official word on this issue one way or another? Does Zenimax view the extended use of mementos and other in-game tools to grief RPers as harassment under the terms of service or no?
Your silence on this issue, sadly, is deafening and serves only to embolden those elements of the community that seek to try and drive us away from our hobby.
TLDR of 'Solutions'
Ignoring them doesn't work.
Playing along doesn't work.
Moving elsewhere doesn't work as housing provides neither the environment nor the space required for players to partake in anything other than social RP.
Imagine thinking this is an actual issue worth the Dev's time.
Throwing virtual mudballs....yikes.4 -
Noxavian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »Rave the Histborn wrote: »This! Harassment has an actual definition to it and part of being harassed is it has to continue over an extended period (not just 1hour) and you need to also make attempts to get away from the person bothering you.
What?
So if I'm at a bar and a guy comes to up to me and starts sexually harassing me and I ask him to leave and he replied with "Only if you leave with me." I'm supposed to leave the bar instead of telling the establishment I have an issue?
Just... what???...
And ONE HOUR of repetitive action doesn't count as harassment??? What the hell is an extended period of time to you? Hey throw me your address so I can ring your doorbell for 1 hour everyday. It's not harassment; and you also need to leave your house so you can get away from me bothering you.
Do you understand how terrible your logic is? I'm really hoping you're saying all that sarcastically.
Imagine comparing throwing a mudball in a PC game to being sexually harassed IRL.
That is a big yikes.
Do you understand how terrible your logic is? You're comparing real life issues of harassment to **throwing a virtual mudball** at someone.
An issue that, guess what, could be resolved immediately by just pressing a couple of buttons on your keyboard to change locations. Boom. Problem solved.
At that point, why not make casting abilities in cities a bannable offense? If mementos get banned/start causing people to get banned (which it never will) they would just simply spam stuff on you. So like, you gotta ask yourself, do you like the little mudball/pie/snowball or would you rather have tons of lightning fields and other spammable AoE stuff cluttering your RP space.
Honestly, at that point let's just ban people from walking around in general and make it to where only your friends list people are visible. Because then they could repeatedly dodge roll in and out of you during an RP or run circles around you or something offensive like that.
See? If ZOS were to take this thread seriously, do you see how there would be no line that could be drawn?4 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, it's not mudballing that is the issue, it's hours and hours of doing the same thing to people who are trying to do something else.
They're not objecting to a mudball, or two, they're objecting to a continuous stream of hundreds of them, over a long period of time.
Neither 1 mudball, nor 1000 mudballs, are a reportable offense. There is no magic number of mudballs where suddenly your salt becomes actionable against someones account. Its not hurting your character. Its a visual effect only.
Yeah, but they are trying to roleplay and if they keep getting covered in mud, continuously, the only roleplay they can do is shaking off mud, endlessly.
Honestly, I think that probably is reportable, if it goes on for hours.
Maybe the people doing it will find out, at some point, if it is, or not.
By the way, I'm not an RPer myself, so it's not my "salt", either way.Edited by Tigerseye on March 26, 2020 9:32AM5 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Really people complain of being harassed by mudballs? How old are you?
I receive lot of bad whispers each day, I completely ignore them and move on.
Once i was targeted heavily, my mudballs, but after a bit the thrower got more tired than me and he stopped, so is started to mudball him instead and he wayshrined away xD
It's just a visual thing, you don't get snared or immobilized or debuffed in an oddly way, just grow up and move on, MMOs are not games for you then.
You don't get it.
It's not like you, or me, getting mudballed, because we're not roleplayers trying to roleplay.1 -
Sheezabeast✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭... not everyone who disagrees with you is a bully. This emotional and dramatic SJW nonsense isnt worth the devs time, as they are busy with more important things.
Also if I am being honest, you people sound very tedious while you demand ownership of entire chat channels like “say” (the default channel) and “emote,” and demand ownership of certain taverns so that normal players cant even come in for a quest without their chatbox being bombarded by your erotic rp, which is gross by the way.
The game doesnt revolve around you, and if you cant handle other players using their abilities and momentos in public areas (aka actually playing the game) then it seems logical that you move your group to a private area like housing.
The game doesn't revolve around antagonizers who grief people relentlessly. With a click of a button you can change your chat channel. Can I click to make a troll go away? No. I can block them and they still could stalk the group rping.
When you generalize rp as erp and use phrases like "actually play the game" you're really sounding like you haven't a clue what is going on beyond the end of your own nose. Do you realize that in rp, you're writing paragraphs of a story? You're calling people using the RPG part of MMORPG people who aren't actually playing. Do you see how willfully ignorant you sound?Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!7 -
Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭Guys, it's not mudballing that is the issue, it's hours and hours of doing the same thing to people who are trying to do something else.
They're not objecting to a mudball, or two, they're objecting to a continuous stream of hundreds of them, over a long period of time.
Neither 1 mudball, nor 1000 mudballs, are a reportable offense. There is no magic number of mudballs where suddenly your salt becomes actionable against someones account. Its not hurting your character. Its a visual effect only.
Honestly, I think that probably is reportable, if it goes on for hours.
You are entitled to think whatever you want, but that doesnt make something true.
There are also people who waste the CSRs time with reports that someone teabagged their corpse in pvp, and swear that it too is “harassing” them, despite it also being a visual thing only.
I feel bad for the reps who have to sift thru all these nonsense SJW emotional distress tickets, before getting to the ones that are real, like dealing with major bugs and crown scammers.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, it's not mudballing that is the issue, it's hours and hours of doing the same thing to people who are trying to do something else.
They're not objecting to a mudball, or two, they're objecting to a continuous stream of hundreds of them, over a long period of time.
Neither 1 mudball, nor 1000 mudballs, are a reportable offense. There is no magic number of mudballs where suddenly your salt becomes actionable against someones account. Its not hurting your character. Its a visual effect only.
Honestly, I think that probably is reportable, if it goes on for hours.
You are entitled to think whatever you want, but that doesnt make something true.
There are also people who waste the CSRs time with reports that someone teabagged their corpse in pvp, and swear that it too is “harassing” them, despite it also being a visual thing only.
I feel bad for the reps who have to sift thru all these nonsense SJW emotional distress tickets, before getting to the ones that are real, like dealing with major bugs and crown scammers.
Yeah, well we will have to wait and see how this pans out, won't we?
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Lowbei✭✭✭✭✭Guys, it's not mudballing that is the issue, it's hours and hours of doing the same thing to people who are trying to do something else.
They're not objecting to a mudball, or two, they're objecting to a continuous stream of hundreds of them, over a long period of time.
Neither 1 mudball, nor 1000 mudballs, are a reportable offense. There is no magic number of mudballs where suddenly your salt becomes actionable against someones account. Its not hurting your character. Its a visual effect only.
Honestly, I think that probably is reportable, if it goes on for hours.
You are entitled to think whatever you want, but that doesnt make something true.
There are also people who waste the CSRs time with reports that someone teabagged their corpse in pvp, and swear that it too is “harassing” them, despite it also being a visual thing only.
I feel bad for the reps who have to sift thru all these nonsense SJW emotional distress tickets, before getting to the ones that are real, like dealing with major bugs and crown scammers.
Yeah, well we will have to wait and see how this pans out, won't we?
It seems that it already has, but I am guessing that many wont accept the outcome until page 13 or 14, if at all. Im off to sleep. Yall have a good evening
Edited by Lowbei on March 26, 2020 10:17AM1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭... not everyone who disagrees with you is a bully. This emotional and dramatic SJW nonsense isnt worth the devs time, as they are busy with more important things.
Also if I am being honest, you people sound very tedious while you demand ownership of entire chat channels like “say” (the default channel) and “emote,” and demand ownership of certain taverns so that normal players cant even come in for a quest without their chatbox being bombarded by your erotic rp, which is gross by the way.
Not all RPers ERP and in fact, I would hazard a guess that most don't and that most of the people, who do, only ERP.
5 -
Taliho✭✭Kind of sad that the term ‘SJW’ has been used to justify what is harassment. So if people take issue with someone constantly abusing them, then they should go hide in a private instance, and they’re snowflakes? That sounds like a bully that bullies people to stay inside thinking they’re the tough guy.
That’s got nothing to do with ‘Social Justice Warriors’. It’s simply about being against behaviour that brings the whole mood down. I would like to see a feature added that at least allows the option to turn it off. Throwing the odd snowball can be somewhat argued. Standing there and constantly doing it is harassment. Say chat is used by RP’ers because of the whole role-playing aspect. You can ignore people if you don’t want to read what they say. You can not ignore someone constantly harassing you.
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Guys, it's not mudballing that is the issue, it's hours and hours of doing the same thing to people who are trying to do something else.
They're not objecting to a mudball, or two, they're objecting to a continuous stream of hundreds of them, over a long period of time.
Neither 1 mudball, nor 1000 mudballs, are a reportable offense. There is no magic number of mudballs where suddenly your salt becomes actionable against someones account. Its not hurting your character. Its a visual effect only.
Honestly, I think that probably is reportable, if it goes on for hours.
You are entitled to think whatever you want, but that doesnt make something true.
There are also people who waste the CSRs time with reports that someone teabagged their corpse in pvp, and swear that it too is “harassing” them, despite it also being a visual thing only.
I feel bad for the reps who have to sift thru all these nonsense SJW emotional distress tickets, before getting to the ones that are real, like dealing with major bugs and crown scammers.
Yeah, well we will have to wait and see how this pans out, won't we?
It seems that it already has, but I am guessing that many wont accept the outcome until page 13 or 14, if at all. Im off to sleep. Yall have a good evening
No, it doesn't "seem" that way, at all.
You really don't get how things work around here, do you?3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SofiDesune wrote: »Yeah, I could tell RPers were being harassed, in general, via comments on here from people who don't like them.
Also, I whispered someone who was (innocently) RPing in an inn, once, because I didn't realise it was RP at first (and thought he might be upset about something) and he responded in a defensive manner.
This led me to believe that he had been intentionally harassed before, via more than just a few mudballs.
If so, it's not OK.
RP (or innocent RP, anyway!) is as valid a part of the game as any other and the people doing it should be respected and left alone.
If you don't like it, that is fair enough, but don't harass; just move on and leave them to it.
As far as mudballs go, one or two is one thing (just laugh and shake 'em off!), but if someone is following you around mudballing you for hours, that would definitely fall under the category of harassment, in my opinion.
Of course, you could move to somewhere he isn't, but if it is someone with a spy account in your guild (for example), he may know where you have gone.
I'm sorry to hear that the response was defensive, it is however a common problem.. perhaps they had just been mocked about?
I know when people in the roleplay community I am in (about 500) go somewhere in groups to roleplay in the world, we tend to all sigh when someone stops and looks at us.. Because we tend to now expect it being another troll.. But then they usually either in say or whisper asks us what we are doing and after we explain, we tend to mostly get a positive response and people moving on..
But it sadly is true, that it have become a common thing where we simply just expect people to come after us.
No need to apologise, it's totally understandable.0 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I only throw mud at oblivious wardens and sorcs WHO DON'T UNSUMMON THEIR STUPID PETS WHEN THEY'RE AT CRAFTING STATIONS! SHOW SOME COMMON COURTESY FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! REEEEEEEEEE!
But yeah, harassing RP'ers is just not cool. But harassing dumb pet users for not removing thier pets from crafting stations and writ drop-off boxes is alright in my book. And for those people saying "just go around" or something like that... It's about principle!
What "principle"?
The principle that ZOS could have made pets lootable through, like other players are, yet didn't?Edited by Tigerseye on March 26, 2020 11:25AM0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your emotions regarding other peoples use of their personal momentos isnt a factor in “harassment.”
If a player is using abilities, or momentos, or food, or drink, or emotes, etc, and you have a problem with it, you can always leave and go somewhere else, as its a huge game.
ZOS read the thread, and ignored it, for a reason. Its not up to you what constitutes harassment, thats up to the TOS.
This is one of those interesting times when "ZOS has not responded" is being used to defend a position. Kudos!
ZOS is not likely to respond in here on this topic. We should all know that ZOS does not tolerate harassment in the game, and we also know that ZOS is the arbiter of what is harassment, and what is not. They handle this on a case-by-case basis, when players are reported. We will not be told the outcome of such reports. Anything ZOS would say in this thread will basically be that.
The fact that they have not said it does not mean that they disagree with the topic of conversation. It is just as likely that they read this, see that their position is accurately reflected by thoughtful responses, like mine
, and leave it at that.
I am all for "leave and go elsewhere", "relocate", and "move a little" as a potential response to a large number of social interaction problems that exist in this game, and the real world. That is part of the oil that keeps society functioning. Water off a duck's back, and all.
When things move to the next level and these things become deliberate and repeated, or for the intended purpose of causing problems, then things have moved beyond merely relocating. Those players need to be reported.
As for just about everything said since the above quote. SMH.
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Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »So, someone throwing mudballs at you in a video game is now called harassment?
Clint Eastwood was so damn right about our current society...
Clint who?
The issue is not mudballs, per se, it's hours worth of them when people are trying to play the part of the game they enjoy.
Surely you (and this Clint person) can see that?3 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The problem is the player who wants to harass, and that can only be resolved by ZOS through the ticket system.
Currently, yes.
However, they could employ a system, like GW2, where they allowed people to exclude themselves from being targeted by other people's momentos.
Or they could place some sort of limit on the number of mudballs (and similar) you could throw at one player within a certain time frame.
It's a shame it has had to come to this, but if people are going out of their way to harass people with them and then are coming on here, blatantly pretending they don't even see the difference between throwing a mudball (or 4) and throwing hundreds of them at RPers, for hours, they are basically asking ZOS for something like that to be implemented.Edited by Tigerseye on March 26, 2020 12:32PM1 -
SofiDesune✭✭✭✭It appears that the OP got the answer to their question via ZOS posting on the thread but ignoring the topic, for obvious reasons. I understand that you disagree with it, but its not up to you to decide if ability or momento use is against the ToS.
Hi hello
I have been busy with online school.(Thanks 2020)
In any regard, we used to have someone who harassed roleplayers that I no longer remember the full name off.
He was reported atleast 20 times daily for a long period before he was temp-banned for 3 days, and I know he was, because when he came back he and I had a talk about the consequence a temp ban had for him as he got kicked out of some of his guilds bc of the ban.
I did not get my answer, as said, merely been busy. I would love for ZOS to simply give an answer and then I will be satisfied.
But as much as I respect that everyone have their different opinions, I think personally you need to take a step back and consider that there are other people with different views, than your own. Your post so far have been rude and ignorant.
Thank you kindly!Edited by SofiDesune on March 26, 2020 1:22PM2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yes, they could do that. They might even consider it. I have no idea.
The problem that I have is that it is not the mudballs that are the problem. It is not the mementos that are the problem. It is the person that is the problem.
The mudball is just the tool. When that person wants to harass someone, they will use whatever tool is at hand, and it does not have to be a memento. There are plenty of ways to harass someone in this game.
This is why the player that is deliberately and purposely harassing needs to be reported, not ignored.3
This discussion has been closed.