The player/rper issue with the mudball/snowball memento and harassment of rpers

SofiDesune

This is just going to be my own personal opinion, everyone is entitled to their own!

But I have an issue with the mementos.. And it mostly comes from the fact that, as a roleplayer atleast, it is one of -the most beloved way of trolls- to go about harassing us as players.

They see us RPing in the wild Tamriel? Mudball for 1-3 hours.
They see us at the dye station discussing outfits? Mudballs

In general, I would like to think it could be solved.. If just like duels.. You could turn off not wanting to be involved in this.
Because I sure as heck didnt sign up my subscription to constantly be covered in mud by people who wants to spend their evening trying to ruin others.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BillE

SofiDesune

I mean.. Just as I writing this, a player was going at us for a good long while.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

I think it's a sad reflection on someone who feels the need to try & disrupt RP'ers. They'd be better served just standing back & watching, as they may discover a facet of the game they are either not familiar with or don't have the courage to try.

snoozy

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

Sylvermynx

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Kittytravel

@SofiDesune

Fun fact this can be classified as harassment under ToS and you can feel free to report them.
Found under Code of Conduct.
"2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy, Gender or any other protected category under Federal or Maryland State law."

With that said though! Please don't report people who are just doing it real quick for fun; in this particular instance this person was clearly targeting your group with the sole intent of bothering and disrupting your play experience and is therefore violating ToS. But if someone runs by and pelts your group with a few mudballs before running off man up and let them continue on their way, the mud will come off soon.

Before reporting someone for these actions take the following time to do these things first.
1. Ask them to kindly stop as it's bothering you and your group.
2. Get proof of them refusing to stop. If you have to go to the required lengths go ahead and record a bit of it.
3. Ask them why they are doing it; admitting to the actions in a Zenimax moderated chat is an admission of guilt much like scamming is.

After that feel free to report them with the evidence you gathered, it's easier for ZoS to moderate a text report or a report with evidence than it is for them to take your word for it that "it happened".

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Kittytravel wrote: »

@SofiDesune

Fun fact this can be classified as harassment under ToS and you can feel free to report them.
Found under Code of Conduct.
"2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy, Gender or any other protected category under Federal or Maryland State law."

With that said though! Please don't report people who are just doing it real quick for fun; in this particular instance this person was clearly targeting your group with the sole intent of bothering and disrupting your play experience and is therefore violating ToS. But if someone runs by and pelts your group with a few mudballs before running off man up and let them continue on their way, the mud will come off soon.

Before reporting someone for these actions take the following time to do these things first.
1. Ask them to kindly stop as it's bothering you and your group.
2. Get proof of them refusing to stop. If you have to go to the required lengths go ahead and record a bit of it.
3. Ask them why they are doing it; admitting to the actions in a Zenimax moderated chat is an admission of guilt much like scamming is.

After that feel free to report them with the evidence you gathered, it's easier for ZoS to moderate a text report or a report with evidence than it is for them to take your word for it that "it happened".

I think we'll need a disclaimer on the memento before we go making such claims.

The fact that ZOS literally coded and implemented the mudball mechanic... What do you think players are sneaking this in by cheating?

Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?

Also, imagine being banned for using an item you paid for in the advertised manner, which is what the snowball is. It was only available in a Crown Crate.

Yeah.

SofiDesune

Sylvermynx wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Sadly no, it doesnt have an effect with anything but the chat..

But I just personally would like an option to say "No thank you" to being mudded and whatnot.

Sylvermynx

SofiDesune wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Sadly no, it doesnt have an effect with anything but the chat..

But I just personally would like an option to say "No thank you" to being mudded and whatnot.

I don't blame you a bit. If I was still into RP (I'm not any more) I'd be furious with that sort of thing.

SofiDesune

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Kittytravel wrote: »

@SofiDesune

Fun fact this can be classified as harassment under ToS and you can feel free to report them.
Found under Code of Conduct.
"2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy, Gender or any other protected category under Federal or Maryland State law."

With that said though! Please don't report people who are just doing it real quick for fun; in this particular instance this person was clearly targeting your group with the sole intent of bothering and disrupting your play experience and is therefore violating ToS. But if someone runs by and pelts your group with a few mudballs before running off man up and let them continue on their way, the mud will come off soon.

Before reporting someone for these actions take the following time to do these things first.
1. Ask them to kindly stop as it's bothering you and your group.
2. Get proof of them refusing to stop. If you have to go to the required lengths go ahead and record a bit of it.
3. Ask them why they are doing it; admitting to the actions in a Zenimax moderated chat is an admission of guilt much like scamming is.

After that feel free to report them with the evidence you gathered, it's easier for ZoS to moderate a text report or a report with evidence than it is for them to take your word for it that "it happened".

I think we'll need a disclaimer on the memento before we go making such claims.

The fact that ZOS literally coded and implemented the mudball mechanic... What do you think players are sneaking this in by cheating?

Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?

Also, imagine being banned for using an item you paid for in the advertised manner, which is what the snowball is. It was only available in a Crown Crate.

Yeah.

I mean, I am not directly -against- the memento, more the.. "Forced" situation that you cannot prevent yourself from being covered in mud if that makes sense!

Hence the talk of maybe it would be nice with a setting to say no thank you to it!

ArchangelIsraphel

I agree that there should be an option to opt out of being affected by things like mudballs, snowballs, and pies of misrule. There is not reason why there shouldn't be a toggle for this, just like every other social interaction. If they allow us to auto decline duels, then they should allow us to auto decline memento use.

I find these mementos to be good fun, but I hate seeing roleplayers disrespected by them. I once paused in vivec city to politely watch a Dark Elf wedding between roleplayers, where those attending had put an astounding amount of time into their costumes, the presence of players dressed exactly like guards, and subtle commentary from others in attendance that created a nuanced backstory contrasting the main proceedings of the wedding itself. It was impressive. And yet...so many stopped by, with no respect or recognition for how much effort had been put into these characters...to mudball the bride and groom, and do other things to disrupt their set up. (The way the players were standing was also very well thought out, and it added so much color and live to VVardenfell to see them. I was brand new to the game at the time, and seeing them was part of what made me fall in love with ESO.)

To their credit, each an every roleplayer continued on with their RP as if the trolls did not exist, -completely ignoring them- with such dignity and grace. They never even gave the trolls the satisfaction of knowing they could see them. Yet still, I'd like to see a very simple toggle implemented so that at least some of this can be mitigated.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

@CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote "Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?"

No tables were turned in this example. You could feel free to report people who were RP'ing but as long as they weren't forcing your inclusion it would be for naught. Committing an act that visually & physically disrupts a character is more in line with harassment per the TOS as you can not simply ignore any text.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

SofiDesune wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Sadly no, it doesnt have an effect with anything but the chat..

But I just personally would like an option to say "No thank you" to being mudded and whatnot.

No thank you. I don't think you should be exempt.

It's funny. Calm down.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

@CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote "Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?"

No tables were turned in this example. You could feel free to report people who were RP'ing but as long as they weren't forcing your inclusion it would be for naught. Committing an act that visually & physically disrupts a character is more in line with harassment per the TOS as you can not simply ignore any text.

I want a refund on my snowball then.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

@CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote "Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?"

No tables were turned in this example. You could feel free to report people who were RP'ing but as long as they weren't forcing your inclusion it would be for naught. Committing an act that visually & physically disrupts a character is more in line with harassment per the TOS as you can not simply ignore any text.

I want a refund on my snowball then.

Eastmarch & Wrothgar have a surplus of snow for you to restock.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Honestly though. Housing.

Boom. Nobody can throw mudballs at you.

Cities are a public space.

They are not the property of self-proclaimed "RP'ers."

And well... I don't know but I somehow think you don't have much of a case.

Especially as ZOS literally sold this mechanic to players for real money.

I think you can tell what the bigger interest is in ZOS's house.

Eldubya

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

stewhead2ub17_ESO wrote: »

@CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote "Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?"

No tables were turned in this example. You could feel free to report people who were RP'ing but as long as they weren't forcing your inclusion it would be for naught. Committing an act that visually & physically disrupts a character is more in line with harassment per the TOS as you can not simply ignore any text.

I want a refund on my snowball then.

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

SofiDesune wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Sadly no, it doesnt have an effect with anything but the chat..

But I just personally would like an option to say "No thank you" to being mudded and whatnot.

No thank you. I don't think you should be exempt.

It's funny. Calm down.

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

SofiDesune wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

SofiDesune wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

I have a feeling the ignore setting doesn't affect mud/snow-balling.

Sadly no, it doesnt have an effect with anything but the chat..

But I just personally would like an option to say "No thank you" to being mudded and whatnot.

No thank you. I don't think you should be exempt.

It's funny. Calm down.

You’ve clearly never had people spamming abilities and snow/mud balls at you for literal hours, then. Every 30 seconds you’re interrupted by someone who has genuinely nothing better to do than harass people with silly items.

Can’t even design an outfit in peace. People stand there while you’re in the damn outfit station and do it.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

@Eldubya

It's a joke friend. Like the snowball is.

But if ZOS does start banning players for using it. (They won't)

Then yes I will want a refund as that item would be a genuine danger to my account.

Right now it isn't, hence my point that this thread is a bit silly.

Also heads up guys. Jester's Festival starts in a few days.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Oh the outfit editing?

Yeah I just go to a mate's house and use their dye station if people are being jokers.

Or buy my own. They aren't exactly expensive.

Problem solved.

Thevampirenight

Well Zenimax does care about the roleplay aspects. Some of the Zenimax employees themselves might engage in roleplaying. There have been cases where zenimax has taken action against behavior as to trolling the rp community and I think players have been banned or perm banned by acting like you can disrupt a roleplay event because you hate roleplay. Zenimax has even had Roleplay events. So before you disrupt those that enjoy roleplaying like myself please note. Roleplay is a supported feature and many of the stuff they add into the crownstore and crowncrates are geared towards selling to roleplayers like emotes and costumes. A large part of the features they have is focused on the roleplay. Features like housing and soon the antiquities system and even fishing it could technically count as a roleplaying feature.

Saucy_Jack

Pie King delights in throwing pies. But sadly, there's no infinite-pie-throwing memento like the mudballs or the snowballs; Pie King has to deal with pies that remain stackable consumables!

HELP ME ZOS

Cloudtrader

This was an issue with similar skills in LOTRO, and after years of complaints, that game finally implemented an opt-out. I hope ESO does, too.

FierceSam

Mud balling outside the new life festivities and not between friends is harassment. It’s intended to disrupt and annoy the player being targeted.

No one throws mud balls at players they don’t know without the deliberate intention of causing them distress.

It’s bullying and ZOS should be doing something to prevent it.

Arunei

@CMDR_Un1k0rn
There are problems with your logic. For one, yes, ZOS allowed the use of these Mementos against players, as a thing to have fun with amongst friends or to chuck at people here and there, not to repeatedly use it on the same person or people for 10 minutes or more. You trying to excuse it with "oh well they implemented it that means it's not against the TOS" is like saying a person is allowed to harass you via chat because "ZOS implemented the chat box so it must be okay to use however we want!". Except it's not. It's purposefully using a part of the game to interrupt someone else's, which the TOS blatantly says isn't allowed. There's no exceptions for "well if you paid money for x or y or got it from a Crown Crate", sorry.

As for "well RPers bother me when I see their text", here's the thing; you can set your chat tabs to filter out /s and /e! You know what RPers can't do? Opt out of seeing our characters getting snowed/mudded/crow'd, and having our emotes broken by them because of the animations these things cause characters hit by them to do. Also, here's another neat thing; you're only going to be seeing the posts for a few minutes tops, if you're doing a quest in the area, and then you're gone and away from the bad evil purple and green text. But when people decide to troll RPers, a lot of the time we can't just leave, and we shouldn't have to worry about being chased off because someone thinks harassment is "funny".

And player housing? Have you forgotten houses have these things called player caps? For guilds and larger gatherings, people might not have a house big enough to accommodate everyone who wants to come join. Player houses make it next to impossible to meet new people like meeting up at a hub somewhere in the world lets you do. And there are many events where a house isn't the answer because it's not anywhere close to the setting a group might need, like a ruin, an ocean, a volcano, or whatever. And again, we shouldn't be expected to hide in player houses because people feel the need to be rude and purposefully interrupt an RP for no reason other than to be a-holes.

doomette

If they do the opt out thing, they would definitely have to prevent PVPers from opting out of pies, as there’s an achievement involved. And if you opt out, you shouldn’t be able to mudball/snowball/pie others.
Other than those caveats, it seems like a fair solution.

Carespanker

Ide be lying if I said I didn't enjoy throwing mudballs at RPer's as I ran by to my next objective, however ive never done it for HOURS lol. That's a little much and if its ruining your experience then yeah that should fall under the lines of harassment if it doesn't already.

VelimOrthic

The burning first question I would have, is how are these people able to determine what you're doing? Are you using the /say command repeatedly while standing around that dye station? Because that sounds like it would be more annoying to any and everyone in the area than any mudballs. If that's what it is, you have to know all that white colored text is going to draw flies. And I would probably lean towards agreement with the flies.

ArchangelIsraphel

VelimOrthic wrote: »

The burning first question I would have, is how are these people able to determine what you're doing? Are you using the /say command repeatedly while standing around that dye station? Because that sounds like it would be more annoying to any and everyone in the area than any mudballs. If that's what it is, you have to know all that white colored text is going to draw flies. And I would probably lean towards agreement with the flies.

So people are using /say to communicate with each other- whether it be an RP or a discussion, how does this give anyone the right to stand and repeatedly throw mudballs or use other disruptive emotes, when they don't have to read the text. As others before me have said, if seeing text annoys someone so much, they can implement the simple chat filters to ignore it. Mudballing cannot be mitigated. And if someone is standing near a dye station...you'd think it would be common sense that they're trying to dye an outfit and that you shouldn't stand there attempting to disrupt that.

Do people really need a "no no" sign put up as if we're all children in order to realize that some behavior is simply disrespectful? Do you really require that kind of clarification to apply an understanding of social skills?

Being in a virtual environment doesn't mean respect goes out the window. "It's not real" is not an excuse- real people are sitting behind those characters. You don't stop treating people like people just because you're playing a game.

SpiderKnight

*throws mudball at everyone here*

Arunei

@CMDR_Un1k0rn
You seem to have either overlooked or ignored my post, as I explained the fallacy of your logic about "well they implemented it so it must be ok" already:

There are problems with your logic. For one, yes, ZOS allowed the use of these Mementos against players, as a thing to have fun with amongst friends or to chuck at people here and there, not to repeatedly use it on the same person or people for 10 minutes or more. You trying to excuse it with "oh well they implemented it that means it's not against the TOS" is like saying a person is allowed to harass you via chat because "ZOS implemented the chat box so it must be okay to use however we want!". Except it's not. It's purposefully using a part of the game to interrupt someone else's, which the TOS blatantly says isn't allowed. There's no exceptions for "well if you paid money for x or y or got it from a Crown Crate", sorry.

Commancho

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.