The player/rper issue with the mudball/snowball memento and harassment of rpers

doomette

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Discussions about harassment towards roleplayers show up on the forum every now and then, and every time I get disgusted over the number of people who are fine with it, even think it's fun.

And are proud of their gleeful rudeness. It’s freaking gross.
I don’t RP but I respect RPers for going out and having fun, even if it makes them the target of socially inept troglodytes. It reminds me of the jerks who would bully the drama kids back in school just for being their own creative and authentic selves.

JKorr

Tessitura wrote: »

I am not taking sides here, but I have seen the rage mudballs cause. I throw them all the time at random people cause I am a simple man and easily amused, but the amount of angry and hateful PM's I get for it is baffling to me. These are not rpers by the way, these are just people I see while I run around in the world.

If I'm questing or crafting and a rather immature jerk disrupts my playing time because they just have to be an immature childish twit, then yes, you'll probably get an angry response if I bother to do anything beyond reporting you, especially if its more than one or two, and outside of the event where its expected asshattery. It is baffling to me that people who intentionally interferes with a random person playing claim to not understand why the random person gets angry/annoyed about it.

JKorr

SofiDesune wrote: »

I would like to give a thanks to the people partaking in the debate, even more those who comes up with different ways this could be handled, who knows, maybe ZoS will one day read this and discuss it!

I will say, I can understand if someone finds us roleplayers annoying if we take up a lot of chat space or whatnot, but generally we meet people run past us and asking what we are doing and when we explain a good amount of people will apologize for disturbing, ask if they can watch or encourage us on and that is honestly something that makes us smile and have a good laugh.

I know some people may not believe how often the "mudballing" or "chat harassment" happens often, but I can say on behalf of a lot of people who felt like I was going to waste my time with the post as people likely wouldnt believe, it happens more often than people might see. Having talked with people on the NA server who cannot even go out of housing or if they do, they feel forced to use party and group chat because otherwise, people will come after them... I think this could be a good (And already have been) debate about how we need to give space to each other, wether you like PVE, PVP, RP or all of it!

You know, I sort of agree with role-players using the group chat. Especially if the rpers are doing stories that head into adult content. It doesn't help the cause of rpers if zone chat is filled with private conversations. The new player who is asking for directions or help isn't necessarily going to know what is going on, and it sure makes it hard for other players to help them out if chat is scrolling past quickly.

Sturmfaenger

What question comes to mind when I read this thread: What was it like before mudballs? Were you RPGers kept in peace?

There are many other annoying ways to disrupt gatherings - try to wait for a world boss in southern elsweyr and you'll see AOE, mementos and emotes of all sorts and players hopping around in circles as if they're followed by a crazy swarm of bees.
You could harass RPGers by playing the ezra, too, for example.

So the question is: Has there not been harassing before the age of mudballs, and would there not be harassing even if they were put on a cooldown timer?
It's good that you posted this thread so the problem gets attention, but somehow I don't think it can be solved that easily with having a cooldown on one or two annoying things.

--> For that you would need another solution - something like the group option to hop in another instance of the place you are, so you can leave the trolls behind and continue your RPG-session undisturbed.

CassandraGemini

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Discussions about harassment towards roleplayers show up on the forum every now and then, and every time I get disgusted over the number of people who are fine with it, even think it's fun.

It's not really all that surprising though - corresponds perfectly with the huge number of ignorant people who think harassment in real life isn't a big deal either, or even "fun". I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the group of people who display this attitude in real life are very likely to think that in a video game "you can't harass people at all, it's only pixels" or some similar BS, completely ignoring the fact that this totally misses the point. Pixels or not, if your actions are geared towards disturbing or interrupting someone else's fun constantly, I really don't know how else to call that other than "harassment".

It's sad, really, how many people just don't give a flying *beep* about their fellow humans.

Kittytravel

@Sturmfaenger Yeah I don't agree with the cooldown; RPers will always be harassed one way or another. It's not a matter of having the objects to do so it's a matter of someone having the human decency to know when a "joke" is being taken too far.

For example; I am not an RP person in anything but DnD and a VERY few select games that actually support it because the world does change with the players choices (Stuff like Ultima Online can have pretty comprehensive worlds where you can even, as a player character, become a main villain for example). But just because I don't like RP doesn't mean I need to disrupt someone else who does.

I think it's more just the fact that people need to recognize what prolonged aggravation is: harassment. This isn't about mudballs or memento's it's about respecting each other as a buyer of the game. Someone has just as much a right to throw a mudball a few times as the RPers do to ask them to stop; it's when it escalates beyond is when it becomes an issue. I would be on the same side of this issue in the below scenario.

There is a group of 8-10 players RPing. A nameless individual runs by and pelts each one of them one with a mud ball and then runs off. That's part of his play experience, however the 8-10 RPers outraged begin PMing for 1-3 hours on end asking him why did that, telling him why he shouldn't, explaining to him that he is being inconsiderate etc. That is also harassment; do not PM a stranger for 1-3 hours with rambling jargon, hell don't even PM him. He's already ran off after having his little bit of fun, ignore it and move on with your RP. If he keeps coming back to bother you now he is the one harassing.

This issue goes both ways, it's just some people don't seem to want to recognize that.

yRaven

Being truly i would love if it was only active in Jester Festival and disable after, only being usable on groups afterwards, then people would stop cry, but as Jester Festival is coming i already have my poop... i mean mudball sack ready

JakaWild

yo if someone wants to pelt me with mud balls for a few hours get at me.im into that kinda RP.

Sheezabeast

Before the mudballs people spammed their mounts rearing back over and over, or the loudest most obnoxious mementos they had. Back when the Meridia one levitated you...that one was awful...

Dagoth_Rac

I do not RP, and I do not know the finer points of it, but it seems like a form of acting. You take on a role and act it out. Constantly throwing mudballs at RPers would be like passing by a Shakespeare festival and throwing mudballs at the actors. Then saying, "Come on! What is the big deal? He is not really the Prince of Denmark! It's just a bunch of silly make-believe!"

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

Recently we've had to remove several posts for flaming and baiting, content that is against the Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment or action on one's own account.

Thank you for understanding.

Kittytravel

@ZOS_AntonioP Is there any chance you can also get someone to respond to this clarifying if it is in fact considered harassment to pelt someone with a mudball for an extended period of time if they have asked you to stop?...

Aigym_Hlervu

Kittytravel wrote: »

@ZOS_AntonioP Is there any chance you can also get someone to respond to this clarifying if it is in fact considered harassment to pelt someone with a mudball for an extended period of time if they have asked you to stop?...

Ah, my long lasting idea of making Tamrielic guards serve and protect player's rights as well as the ones of those NPC has still been an idea with no practical application.. I've achieved a Temple Knight achievement and was named Her Hand by Almalexia herself, but, sad to say, I have no tools to chase certain lawbreakers while those NPC Ordinators have. I'd like game mechanics to be changed so that players could become guards themselves and help those who were offended by mudballs, unfair trade, etc. They could be some sort of arbiters in some certain player-player relations just like the real world police and lawyers. NPC guards protect NPC only.. You try to throw a mudball at him - he'll bit all the ... out of you. Then why can't I do the same or call for a guard at least? People challenged each other for duels and had to accept it for much less disrespect in more civilized times. But today all you are left to do is to throw dung back at them.. Well, these are just my thoughts, I do not insist on this to be performed actually.

yodased

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

I do not RP, and I do not know the finer points of it, but it seems like a form of acting. You take on a role and act it out. Constantly throwing mudballs at RPers would be like passing by a Shakespeare festival and throwing mudballs at the actors. Then saying, "Come on! What is the big deal? He is not really the Prince of Denmark! It's just a bunch of silly make-believe!"

It's more like going to the Renaissance Festival in full dress up and then making fun of those who are in character. With a play you are not an active participant in the activity being interrupted.

Other than that yes RP is getting into the actual characters mindset instead of playing a game it's like its your avatar.

Im not into it but i also won't judge or Harrass anyone who is

Vonbone

First, I would like to say harassing anyone in game is wrong. Players RPing or otherwise should be able to play as they like but with that being said why not just use houses. I've seen guild looking for RPers for their guilds. Honestly you could make a whole town with one person house being a bar, tavern or whatever you want it to be. You would have complete control who can come into the areas so no harassers present. I myself don't RP so I don't know if would work but it doesn't seem like RPers do content or pvp so why not just have your own little community that you control. And yes, you should be able to go anywhere in the game and play but this is the internet where trolls live and breed so to me that would be that would stop the problem before it starts.

Veuth

Considering you're not using hyperbole, mudballing you for 3 hours is actually incredibly sad and they must have a very boring and lonely life if they're doing that. One or twice is all fun and games though.

Perhaps just block them and go somewhere else if it gets annoying.

EDIT: Not all mudball throwers are trolls or bullies, that's an insane exaggeration and a total misunderstanding. It's mostly just a bit of fun to lob 1 at a random passing by and see the funny animation and grunt their character makes, I don't think I have ever made anyone rage over it either. But of course if someone is doing it every second for like an hour then perhaps tell them to find something better to do with their time lol.

yodased

Vonbone wrote: »

First, I would like to say harassing anyone in game is wrong. Players RPing or otherwise should be able to play as they like but with that being said why not just use houses. I've seen guild looking for RPers for their guilds. Honestly you could make a whole town with one person house being a bar, tavern or whatever you want it to be. You would have complete control who can come into the areas so no harassers present. I myself don't RP so I don't know if would work but it doesn't seem like RPers do content or pvp so why not just have your own little community that you control. And yes, you should be able to go anywhere in the game and play but this is the internet where trolls live and breed so to me that would be that would stop the problem before it starts.

Not a roleplayer, but I can answer this.

Several reasons:

1. Player limit of 20 people
2. Unlimited, yet very limited design because housing is expensive and takes forever to set up scenarios.
3. Players use the world of tamriel to engage with while roleplaying, its not just they want to be their characters, they want to be their characters in the world created for them.

Glurin

I freely admit to tossing a mudball or two at nearby RPers on occasion. Emphasis on it being one or two. Typically it's because I see one of them burying the needle on the melodrama meter as I'm passing through town. Like, seriously, you don't need two hundred lines of over the top emotional dialogue describing your epic struggle to eat a banana. Not even talking about the ERPer's version of "eating a banana" either.

What I don't do is go out of my way to hunt them down and pelt them with mudballs over and over for the next three hours. We're all here to enjoy ourselves and we all have different idea's of what that means. One or two mudballs is all in good fun and can be ignored or played off however you like, but fifty or sixty is harassment. Just my 2 cents on the subject.

Nestor

There are a few Momentos that can troll and harass other players. Not going to list them here for obvious reasons. However, the Mudball seems to be the worst and gets used the most often.

Not sure if locking that down to only during the event would help. But i do see it as an issue. I can ignore it, and i think that is the best way to handle trolls. Problem is, the character has this very visible animation when hit, and that can feed the trolls.

Banana

It happens. It's the internet. I moved to another zone last time some ass clown was doing me at the outfit station

bearbelly

Banana wrote: »

It happens. It's the internet. I moved to another zone last time some ass clown was doing me at the outfit station

So you're saying that your solution was to split.

JumpmanLane

Tessitura wrote: »

I am not taking sides here, but I have seen the rage mudballs cause. I throw them all the time at random people cause I am a simple man and easily amused, but the amount of angry and hateful PM's I get for it is baffling to me. These are not rpers by the way, these are just people I see while I run around in the world.

If you throw a mud ball at me, catch that duel! If you decline, you’re a coward who shouldn’t be bothering people lol.

SofiDesune

Vonbone wrote: »

First, I would like to say harassing anyone in game is wrong. Players RPing or otherwise should be able to play as they like but with that being said why not just use houses. I've seen guild looking for RPers for their guilds. Honestly you could make a whole town with one person house being a bar, tavern or whatever you want it to be. You would have complete control who can come into the areas so no harassers present. I myself don't RP so I don't know if would work but it doesn't seem like RPers do content or pvp so why not just have your own little community that you control. And yes, you should be able to go anywhere in the game and play but this is the internet where trolls live and breed so to me that would be that would stop the problem before it starts.

I can say with great confidence that roleplayers PVE and PVP quite a lot
And as great as housing is, there is a limit to how many we can be in them and it causes our issues.
Plus.. We like the world created, so we would like to use it

mayasunrising

This is clearly a l2p issue; Learn to Person that is. If you can't understand why it is wrong to harass a group of people like this you really need to go back to humanning school and repeat a grade or two. Aside from t-bagging, I can't think of anything more childish.

Dusk_Coven

Sturmfaenger wrote: »

There are many other annoying ways to disrupt gatherings - try to wait for a world boss in southern elsweyr and you'll see AOE, mementos and emotes of all sorts and players hopping around in circles as if they're followed by a crazy swarm of bees.
You could harass RPGers by playing the ezra, too, for example.

Mudballs are slightly different in that they FORCE the target to do an animation. It's like forcing that person to pay attention to the troll, and there's no counter. Even if you put them on ignore they could just keep mudballing you.
It's similar to using Regeneration on someone, which forces them to draw their weapon and puts a glow on them, although mudballs also put you in third person.

Which is not to say that all the things you mentioned to deliberately disrupt someone else's gathering are not harassment either.

Recent

When i get mudballed or pied or iced, I throw mudballs back at them and I laugh hysterically. For some odd reason they stop doing it once they realise I'm enjoying it😆

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I had no idea rpers found it annoying to get hit by a mudball, I promise I won't try this out next time I see rpers. We should all respect the world and lives they choose to live in game and NEVER challenge them or remind them its a game. Breaks the immersion man.

Lysette

Recent wrote: »

When i get mudballed or pied or iced, I throw mudballs back at them and I laugh hysterically. For some odd reason they stop doing it once they realise I'm enjoying it😆

Another way is to change outfit and say "again please" - and after each mudball change outfit and repeat.

Nomadic_Atmoran

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Kittytravel wrote: »

@SofiDesune

Fun fact this can be classified as harassment under ToS and you can feel free to report them.
Found under Code of Conduct.
"2.5 You may not harass, threaten, embarrass, or cause distress to another customer or guest using ZeniMax sites and Services. This includes but is not limited to verbal attacks, unwanted messaging, personal attacks, stalking or any other undesired behavior used to cause discomfort or disrupt another customer's experience. At all times users will refrain from attacking Age, Race, Disability, Sexual Orientation, National Origin, Pregnancy, Gender or any other protected category under Federal or Maryland State law."

With that said though! Please don't report people who are just doing it real quick for fun; in this particular instance this person was clearly targeting your group with the sole intent of bothering and disrupting your play experience and is therefore violating ToS. But if someone runs by and pelts your group with a few mudballs before running off man up and let them continue on their way, the mud will come off soon.

Before reporting someone for these actions take the following time to do these things first.
1. Ask them to kindly stop as it's bothering you and your group.
2. Get proof of them refusing to stop. If you have to go to the required lengths go ahead and record a bit of it.
3. Ask them why they are doing it; admitting to the actions in a Zenimax moderated chat is an admission of guilt much like scamming is.

After that feel free to report them with the evidence you gathered, it's easier for ZoS to moderate a text report or a report with evidence than it is for them to take your word for it that "it happened".

I think we'll need a disclaimer on the memento before we go making such claims.

The fact that ZOS literally coded and implemented the mudball mechanic... What do you think players are sneaking this in by cheating?

Besides, maybe I think players are disrupting my experience by doing whatever they do in RP? See how easily I just turned the tables?

Also, imagine being banned for using an item you paid for in the advertised manner, which is what the snowball is. It was only available in a Crown Crate.

Yeah.

No ones paid for a mudball momento considering how easily one can come by them during the New Life Festival. And it does not matter what the troll thinks. Their behavior is disruptive and they are harassing other players. You do not need to be warned not to do certain behaviors when a well adjusted individual knows better.

A_Silverius

LOTRO has an option to disable special emote effects like these, so I think ESO could have it too. Would also be great for non-RP'ers.