The player/rper issue with the mudball/snowball memento and harassment of rpers

VelimOrthic

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

VelimOrthic wrote: »

The burning first question I would have, is how are these people able to determine what you're doing? Are you using the /say command repeatedly while standing around that dye station? Because that sounds like it would be more annoying to any and everyone in the area than any mudballs. If that's what it is, you have to know all that white colored text is going to draw flies. And I would probably lean towards agreement with the flies.

So people are using /say to communicate with each other- whether it be an RP or a discussion, how does this give anyone the right to stand and repeatedly throw mudballs or use other disruptive emotes, when they don't have to read the text. As others before me have said, if seeing text annoys someone so much, they can implement the simple chat filters to ignore it. Mudballing cannot be mitigated. And if someone is standing near a dye station...you'd think it would be common sense that they're trying to dye an outfit and that you shouldn't stand there attempting to disrupt that.

Do people really need a "no no" sign put up as if we're all children in order to realize that some behavior is simply disrespectful? Do you really require that kind of clarification to apply an understanding of social skills?

Being in a virtual environment doesn't mean respect goes out the window. "It's not real" is not an excuse- real people are sitting behind those characters. You don't stop treating people like people just because you're playing a game.

As the OP mentioned, these are opinions, and as I said, I lean in the direction of the mudballers. I won't be adjusting any filters, cutting off that function of the game. That's silly. If you're in an area it is useful at times to communicate with others in that area, for example to provide or receive tips on a WB's fight mechanics so you can team up and beat it.

I also tend to be of the opinion that claims of multiple hours is an exaggeration (yes, a polite way of saying a lie). I'm of the opinion that a few minutes of breaking up a wall of nonsensical white chat would be quite satisfying and hilarious.

SofiDesune

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I am.. Fairly sure.. That eso is more than suitable for roleplay as it is for pve or pvp...

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

ArchangelIsraphel

VelimOrthic wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

VelimOrthic wrote: »

The burning first question I would have, is how are these people able to determine what you're doing? Are you using the /say command repeatedly while standing around that dye station? Because that sounds like it would be more annoying to any and everyone in the area than any mudballs. If that's what it is, you have to know all that white colored text is going to draw flies. And I would probably lean towards agreement with the flies.

So people are using /say to communicate with each other- whether it be an RP or a discussion, how does this give anyone the right to stand and repeatedly throw mudballs or use other disruptive emotes, when they don't have to read the text. As others before me have said, if seeing text annoys someone so much, they can implement the simple chat filters to ignore it. Mudballing cannot be mitigated. And if someone is standing near a dye station...you'd think it would be common sense that they're trying to dye an outfit and that you shouldn't stand there attempting to disrupt that.

Do people really need a "no no" sign put up as if we're all children in order to realize that some behavior is simply disrespectful? Do you really require that kind of clarification to apply an understanding of social skills?

Being in a virtual environment doesn't mean respect goes out the window. "It's not real" is not an excuse- real people are sitting behind those characters. You don't stop treating people like people just because you're playing a game.

As the OP mentioned, these are opinions, and as I said, I lean in the direction of the mudballers. I won't be adjusting any filters, cutting off that function of the game. That's silly. If you're in an area it is useful at times to communicate with others in that area, for example to provide or receive tips on a WB's fight mechanics so you can team up and beat it.

I also tend to be of the opinion that claims of multiple hours is an exaggeration (yes, a polite way of saying a lie). I'm of the opinion that a few minutes of breaking up a wall of nonsensical white chat would be quite satisfying and hilarious.

I've sat in on roleplays by invitation to enjoy the stories, and seen for myself that this does indeed happen, even though I was not participating in the RP at the time. The OP is not lying. People will do this for up to 30 minutes or more, probably because they cant stand the fact that they aren't getting any attention from the roleplayes who do their best to continue on in spite of it.

You'd be surprised by the extent to which people will go to disrupt a roleplay. The problem is real even if you don't want to believe it is. I realize fully that you likely wont take anyones word for it. That's okay. But this is happening, and it's sad.

CassandraGemini

Wow... after reading through all of this I am honestly surprised that there even has to be a debate about this. I have never seen harassment like that myself but that's probably because on PS4 EU we don't have such an active RP community (which is a bit sad, since I, for one, would welcome it), but that anyone would doubt that behavior like this can most definitely be considered "harassment" is actually unbelievable to me. Who wouldn't feel harassed, if they just wanted to act out a story they came up with, while some sociopath incessantly kept pounding them with mud balls? And whyever would someone think it could be fun to do just that repeatedly to the same people, clearly ruining their experience in the process? What the hell?

I really don't understand some people.

Commancho

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

Oh God, do you really think this game has any RPG aspects? Combat is flat and repeatitive, story is deep like a lake on a desert, dialoges are dumb, every second player is riding on lore breaking mount in a dumb anti-lore skin & armor and throwing a mud balls at you or doing other stupid stuff. Try Divinity 2 in CO-OP then maybe you will see whats real cRPG and how co-op roleplaying should look like lol

CassandraGemini

Commancho wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

Oh God, do you really think this game has any RPG aspects? Combat is flat and repeatitive, story is deep like a lake on a desert, dialoges are dumb, every second player is riding on lore breaking mount in a dumb anti-lore skin & armor and throwing a mud balls at you or doing other stupid stuff. Try Divinity 2 in CO-OP then maybe you will see whats real cRPG and how co-op roleplaying should look like lol

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you on everything you say (especially the part about Divinity 2, which is absolutely awesome!), but... why exactly are you still playing this game, if you can't find anything good to say about it?

Royaji

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Wow... after reading through all of this I am honestly surprised that there even has to be a debate about this. I have never seen harassment like that myself but that's probably because on PS4 EU we don't have such an active RP community (which is a bit sad, since I, for one, would welcome it), but that anyone would doubt that behavior like this can most definitely be considered "harassment" is actually unbelievable to me. Who wouldn't feel harassed, if they just wanted to act out a story they came up with, while some sociopath incessantly kept pounding them with mud balls? And whyever would someone think it could be fun to do just that repeatedly to the same people, clearly ruining their experience in the process? What the hell?

I really don't understand some people.

This might be devils advocate a bit but I do find this idea very amusing. What if they are acting out their story about an aggressive mud slinging madman?

CassandraGemini

Royaji wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Wow... after reading through all of this I am honestly surprised that there even has to be a debate about this. I have never seen harassment like that myself but that's probably because on PS4 EU we don't have such an active RP community (which is a bit sad, since I, for one, would welcome it), but that anyone would doubt that behavior like this can most definitely be considered "harassment" is actually unbelievable to me. Who wouldn't feel harassed, if they just wanted to act out a story they came up with, while some sociopath incessantly kept pounding them with mud balls? And whyever would someone think it could be fun to do just that repeatedly to the same people, clearly ruining their experience in the process? What the hell?

I really don't understand some people.

This might be devils advocate a bit but I do find this idea very amusing. What if they are acting out their story about an aggressive mud slinging madman?

I actually found that so funny I laughed out loud. Husband was looking at me like I lost it.

Commancho

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

Oh God, do you really think this game has any RPG aspects? Combat is flat and repeatitive, story is deep like a lake on a desert, dialoges are dumb, every second player is riding on lore breaking mount in a dumb anti-lore skin & armor and throwing a mud balls at you or doing other stupid stuff. Try Divinity 2 in CO-OP then maybe you will see whats real cRPG and how co-op roleplaying should look like lol

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you on everything you say (especially the part about Divinity 2, which is absolutely awesome!), but... why exactly are you still playing this game, if you can't find anything good to say about it?

I play this game mostly for PVP. The only fun part of roleplaying in this game I have found in the past 2,5 years is actually my dedication to Daggerfall Covenant in Cyrodill & my guildmates there... and which has been destroyed performance/balance wise in the past 6 months. Also housing for awhile, but I've burned out...

Sylvermynx

CassandraGemini wrote: »

I actually found that so funny I laughed out loud. Husband was looking at me like I lost it.

Oh, I'm SO glad to find out that happens in other's lives! Yeah, I get that "look" a lot.... he's 15 years older than I am, knows nothing (and WANTS to know said nothing) about computers, games, the 'net, forums....

So yeah. I don't even TRY to 'splain!

Arunei

VelimOrthic wrote: »

As the OP mentioned, these are opinions, and as I said, I lean in the direction of the mudballers. I won't be adjusting any filters, cutting off that function of the game. That's silly. If you're in an area it is useful at times to communicate with others in that area, for example to provide or receive tips on a WB's fight mechanics so you can team up and beat it.

I also tend to be of the opinion that claims of multiple hours is an exaggeration (yes, a polite way of saying a lie). I'm of the opinion that a few minutes of breaking up a wall of nonsensical white chat would be quite satisfying and hilarious.

You don't have to adjust your chat filters if it's not bothering you, I mentioned it because it's an option available to people to block out RP chat if it honestly bothers them that much, while RPers don't have any means of blocking being hit with snow/mudballs and the crow Memento.

And no, it's not an exaggeration. As someone who's RPed in this game for around 4-ish years now, it is 100% legit, no exaggeration or hyperbole. It's not just Mementos, people will also use disruptive skills that are either really bright/flashy (like Shards or other super bright Templar skills) or that knock you out of your emote, like Mutagen/Rapid Regen or Molten Armaments. They will literally do this sometimes for an hour or more, as well as flooding the chat box with spam that makes seeing RP replies hard. That part, at least, can be gotten around via blocking.

But it seems to me you're one of the people who seem to think harassment is okay, just because the white text is 'nonsensical' to you. Does it really bother you that much that people genuinely enjoy playing the game in a way you might not care about or understand, that you'd think it's funny to interfere with it for literally no reason other than to be a jerk? Would it be "satisfying and hilarious" if people found ways to block or interfere with PvP or PvE or other methods of playing the game, just because they find it 'nonsensical'? The lack of empathy and common decency in the world never fails to astound me.

@CMDR_Un1k0rn
Dude...I've explained twice now how just because something is freely available doesn't make it exempt from being used for harassment. You have to be deliberately obtuse at this point to keep claiming that you need some sort of official clarification, especially since someone else already literally quoted the part of the TOS this breaks at you. You can plug your ears and go "I can't hear you lalalalala" all you want, but the proof has already been given.

Again, there is no exemption for something being used to harass others, even if you paid for that something. Like I said, that would be like trying to say you can freely harass someone via chat just because it's 'readily available'.

Sylvermynx

Commancho wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

Oh God, do you really think this game has any RPG aspects? Combat is flat and repeatitive, story is deep like a lake on a desert, dialoges are dumb, every second player is riding on lore breaking mount in a dumb anti-lore skin & armor and throwing a mud balls at you or doing other stupid stuff. Try Divinity 2 in CO-OP then maybe you will see whats real cRPG and how co-op roleplaying should look like lol

I'm not necessarily saying I disagree with you on everything you say (especially the part about Divinity 2, which is absolutely awesome!), but... why exactly are you still playing this game, if you can't find anything good to say about it?

I play this game mostly for PVP. The only fun part of roleplaying in this game I have found in the past 2,5 years is actually my dedication to Daggerfall Covenant in Cyrodill & my guildmates there... and which has been destroyed performance/balance wise in the past 6 months. Also housing for awhile, but I've burned out...

That's sad. I hope you find something to give you fun again before long - even if it's another game.

ArchangelIsraphel

@Sylvermynx

For those who are seriously RPers, it can be unbelievably difficult in a game like this. I know some people think the "RP" in a MMORPG is all "ERP". But it's not. A MMORPG like ESO is a replacer for tabletop games - because not all of us have that option IRL any more (for many reasons; but in my case, the last time I met up with some people to set up a tabletop AD&D game - about 20 years ago now - I was 30 years older than anyone else, and a couple of the people were younger than my granddaughters; believe me when I say they weren't interested in welcoming me....)

Off topic, but: I'm sad to see that you weren't accepted by the group because of your age. It's unfortunate that people who participate in RPG's don't realize that it isn't only for the young. People older than they are set the groundwork for the games they now enjoy... age doesn't change the fact that you still have stories you wish to tell.

craybest

are people actually defending someone who has spent 1 hour and more harassing someone? sad.
throw a few mudballs around? no problem. stay there for an hour or more harassing the same people? not cool and should be temp banned at least.
is it too hard to not act like a complete ******* to others unprovoked?

Sylvermynx

craybest wrote: »

are people actually defending someone who has spent 1 hour and more harassing someone? sad.
throw a few mudballs around? no problem. stay there for an hour or more harassing the same people? not cool and should be temp banned at least.
is it too hard to not act like a complete ******* to others unprovoked?

Seems like.... yes, it is sad.

CassandraGemini

Sylvermynx wrote: »

CassandraGemini wrote: »

I actually found that so funny I laughed out loud. Husband was looking at me like I lost it.

Oh, I'm SO glad to find out that happens in other's lives! Yeah, I get that "look" a lot.... he's 15 years older than I am, knows nothing (and WANTS to know said nothing) about computers, games, the 'net, forums....

So yeah. I don't even TRY to 'splain!

Haha, well, that's not really the issue with him; he's in IT and a gamer himself, he's just very strictly single player gaming and somehow can't understand why my involvement in an MMO has grown so much, and that I hang out on the forums from time to time.

I think in this case, though, he just didn't see what I was doing and that I was reading something here and probably thought I just had an inexplicable fit of amusement in the middle of the night

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Commancho wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

As much as I love RPG, you can hardly call it stalking. Even if it would be possible to disabled it, someone can still annoy you with hundreds of other things. That's a consequence of lack of open PVP. Besides you have choosen completly wrong game for roleplaying. I suggest looking for single players cRPGs with co-operation option or open world PVP MMOs.

I'm pretty sure I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online. A MMORPG in a setting that has been built on singeplayer roleplaying games.

Oh God, do you really think this game has any RPG aspects? Combat is flat and repeatitive, story is deep like a lake on a desert, dialoges are dumb, every second player is riding on lore breaking mount in a dumb anti-lore skin & armor and throwing a mud balls at you or doing other stupid stuff. Try Divinity 2 in CO-OP then maybe you will see whats real cRPG and how co-op roleplaying should look like lol

🙄 It still an mmorpg with rpg aspects. Do I like those mounts and skins? No, I don't and I think they get worse with every passing season. But I take what I can get for my mmorpg fill.

I'm very familiar with Divinity Original Sin 2 -- It's a fantastic rpg. Along with many other rpgs.

Samadhi

SofiDesune wrote: »

I mean.. Just as I writing this, a player was going at us for a good long while.

do you have the whole group report the player in question in this scenario?

CMDR_Un1k0rn

Well.

After seeing all the comments here I decided to search through posts from years past.

I have indeed found real evidence from ZOS themselves that they do see the mementos in question as harassment I'm certain circumstances.

Now quite simply I've never thrown a mud ball at anyone "for hours" and I challenge you to find proof otherwise. (It doesn't exist because my entire reason for posting here and making an utter fool of myself was out of genuine misunderstanding, and I've never targeted the same character for "hours" as some examples cite)

I now have seen official statements from ZOS I'm the past. With respect I do not take advice on ToS from normal players as final. I do from ZOS however.

Quite simply I had assumed that "buy snowball for cash = not harassment"

This is indeed incorrect of me to think but I do maintain that there was logic behind why I misunderstood the rules.

Given that in extreme cases however, that the use of these mementos is considered harassment?

I will not be applying them to my quickslots ever again, this meaning I will not be able to use them at all.

That is my involvement with this thread done, and I will consider requesting ZOS to remove the mementos from my collections altogether by way of support ticket. I'm not even seeking a refund.

I am not a legal expert, and this means I will miss out details in a ToS. This is quite natural. But it is also why I wanted to see verified ZOS sources. To make up for my lack of knowledge.

Taunky

The only thing that will put a stop to this is if roleplayers have access to their own server, because nothing is going to stop me from chucking my mementos are your immersion.

Ackwalan

I feel the same way about rpers spamming the blue emot chat completely clogging up the chat window. Nobody wants to see you doing your story time.

Dracofyre

this is what exactly i posted few months ago. these are potiental for griefing, even interupted the quest when seeing npc's. Devs decided not to listen, and they think it is fun for players (griefers), not the players who dont have time to get annoyed, griefed, ganked, and stalking.
breaking up while in craftings, while in bank mode.

mudball should be only for NPCs, as quest intended, griefers find other ways to cause other players a bad day.
i almost even nearly killed by city guard.
those used mudball in exploiting the boss fight few years ago and devs just limited, but didnt go all the way, they found other uses when they explore and found pther players alone in the dungeon, fighting the boss and used on player and made into punching bag for the mobs.

Dracofyre

next time when that event come back, i would decline and abandon Skywatch mudball quest and get other quest. it is total grief camp.

Dracofyre

other mudball in any social place in guild, having fun was okay. but to be used in public dungeon runs, is big no no
make immunity while at craft tables and interaqction with NPCs for bank, vendors, or trade with other players.

need safe harbor zones away from griefers in city areas.
"Attempt to use mudball not permit in safe harbor when targeting players"

also, make the city guards extremely hostile to anyone lollygagging with mudball in city zones, kill on sight.

Lysette

Shantu wrote: »

Mudballs are fun for about 5 seconds. Whoever came up with the idea that running around targeting random people you don't know with a mudball would be a fun thing, is an idiot. I had one person follow me around for 5 minutes hitting me with mudballs just because I was farming flowers in the same area they were. Generally I just ignore them, but there really should be a way to opt out of being a target of such behavior.

Yeah, i ignore that too and sometimes it amuses me even but I'm on my own, i can just ignore it without consequences. in a group, which tries to role play this is not that easily ignored, but one can still try to be boring for the one trying to harass the group - he will give up sooner or later, if he doesn't get attention - the worst reaction is showing that you got bothered. I guess one has to agree in a group how to deal with that situation, because if anyone of them reacts to it, harassment will go on.

btw. if one would follow me around picking flowers, and he does that for a longer time, i might just reward him with 20 minutes of even more boring fishing or standing still trying out emotes - one of us will give up and it isn't me. Who knows that might even get amusing after a while, playing instruments and being mudballed - could get a laugh out of it occassionally.

Sylvermynx

CMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »

Well.

After seeing all the comments here I decided to search through posts from years past.

I have indeed found real evidence from ZOS themselves that they do see the mementos in question as harassment I'm certain circumstances.

Now quite simply I've never thrown a mud ball at anyone "for hours" and I challenge you to find proof otherwise. (It doesn't exist because my entire reason for posting here and making an utter fool of myself was out of genuine misunderstanding, and I've never targeted the same character for "hours" as some examples cite)

I now have seen official statements from ZOS I'm the past. With respect I do not take advice on ToS from normal players as final. I do from ZOS however.

Quite simply I had assumed that "buy snowball for cash = not harassment"

This is indeed incorrect of me to think but I do maintain that there was logic behind why I misunderstood the rules.

Given that in extreme cases however, that the use of these mementos is considered harassment?

I will not be applying them to my quickslots ever again, this meaning I will not be able to use them at all.

That is my involvement with this thread done, and I will consider requesting ZOS to remove the mementos from my collections altogether by way of support ticket. I'm not even seeking a refund.

I am not a legal expert, and this means I will miss out details in a ToS. This is quite natural. But it is also why I wanted to see verified ZOS sources. To make up for my lack of knowledge.

That's a great statement. Thank you. You reaffirm my belief that people who play this game are mostly people I'm happy to call friend.

*tips hat in honor of St Paddy - as due to RL stuff, we didn't get to have the parades*

barney2525

I have only run into it occasionally at wayshrines or sometimes waiting at a dolmen.

But I have Never had an issue with anyone for long periods of time, and never at a dye station.

I'm just having a hard time believing it is happening as often as the OP is saying.

IMHO

Linaleah

it would be cool if ZoS implemented a buff that you could use that makes you not get muddied or pied or whatnot. make it a food buff even.

on one hand I understand how annoying these disruptions can be and its part of the reason I enjoy housing so much - at allows you to build role play environments and avoid these types of disruptions, but I also understand that its limited and not ideal.

I also understand the fun in mud balling or pieing someone (though I've only ever done that with guildies who mudballed me first and.. they are guildies, not random strangers.)

hence maybe we should have some sort of buff that I don't know makes you untargetable? or... just like you can select to auto decline duels in settings, maybe we should have another setting that allows you to make yourself untargetable by other people's memento's? is this possible, ZoS?

that said, I would also suggest NOT having any rp events in skywatch during jester's festival. or just avoid event areas all together while festival is active. because most people at that point are just trying to complete their dailies, so if you are getting mudballed in this specific circumstances? its kinda like standing in a middle of busy highway and complaining about cars. in this specific event circumstances.

VelimOrthic

Consider the fact that winged twilight pets are not only still in the game, they're as popular as ever. The debate about them has been on for such a long time, but you only see more and more. You can't stand by a wayshrine for 5 seconds without getting a big face full of someone's trollpet.

This prevalence is as clear as evidence can possibly get that the developers have absolutely NO intention of EVER listening to people's complaints about player animations. Lol. In fact, it's actually damn good evidence that they fully support what players' animations do to bother other players.

What is out of the question is verbal/text harassment. They probably see these animations as a supplement that is meant to diminish people's motivation to be a *** with their words. And they're probably accurate in that estimation of group psychology.

I thought the few k mud balls I had banked would be trashed eventually, but after reading this sublimely entertaining thread I am ecstatic that I hung on to them all.