The player/rper issue with the mudball/snowball memento and harassment of rpers

VelimOrthic

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

I find these mementos to be good fun, but I hate seeing roleplayers disrespected by them. I once paused in vivec city to politely watch a Dark Elf wedding between roleplayers, where those attending had put an astounding amount of time into their costumes, the presence of players dressed exactly like guards, and subtle commentary from others in attendance that created a nuanced backstory contrasting the main proceedings of the wedding itself. It was impressive. And yet...so many stopped by, with no respect or recognition for how much effort had been put into these characters...to mudball the bride and groom, and do other things to disrupt their set up. (The way the players were standing was also very well thought out, and it added so much color and live to VVardenfell to see them. I was brand new to the game at the time, and seeing them was part of what made me fall in love with ESO.)

To their credit, each an every roleplayer continued on with their RP as if the trolls did not exist, -completely ignoring them- with such dignity and grace. They never even gave the trolls the satisfaction of knowing they could see them. Yet still, I'd like to see a very simple toggle implemented so that at least some of this can be mitigated.

Everybody has their own take on things. If I had witnessed what you described, it would be the mudballing that stood out as the most entertaining thing I'd ever come across in this game. Possibly Top 5 for the entire history of the internet.

Linaleah

VelimOrthic wrote: »

Consider the fact that winged twilight pets are not only still in the game, they're as popular as ever. The debate about them has been on for such a long time, but you only see more and more. You can't stand by a wayshrine for 5 seconds without getting a big face full of someone's trollpet.

consider for a moment, that people use those pets NOT to troll you, but because they "gasp" provide a very strong heal. you know? even people who use them are not the biggest fans of the in your face flapping, not to mention having to have that skill slotted on both bars. we don't use it to troll you. we use it because its worth using in combat.

that doesn't mean that developers shouldn't work on fixing just how annoying these pets can get, but just.. consider for a moment that people using something that you find annoying? is NOT becasue they are trying to troll you or be jerks in any way.

ZonasArch

Edited everything out because I skipped an entire page of replies and missed relevant posts that totally nullified my own post.

Good to see people can listen and apparently actually change their minds. Reading this thread, aside a few posts here and there, entirely unexpectedly gave me hope about this community. This means you @CMDR_Un1k0rn . Good on you, for real.

Dusk_Coven

SofiDesune wrote: »

But I have an issue with the mementos.. And it mostly comes from the fact that, as a roleplayer atleast, it is one of -the most beloved way of trolls- to go about harassing us as players.

This is a type of PvP griefing and there's no counter except reporting for harassment.
It would be useful if ZOS actually released statistics on a monthly or quarterly basis indicating how many people have been banned / suspended for exploiting or harassment or other TOS infractions.
But because they don't, we really don't have any evidence or confidence that they do anything at all. Especially when their customer service routinely provides completely wrong information to tickets.

Toanis

When I throw muddballs at you, then your bear is blocking a NPC or crafting station I want to interact with.

ZonasArch

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Toanis wrote: »

When I throw muddballs at you, then your bear is blocking a NPC or crafting station I want to interact with.

I've been doing this... Just ask in /s for them to move their pets. Most people will kill them off, some will walk away a bit. It works and is a lot more civilized.

Hapexamendios

My friends always blame me if they get hit with a mudball. Most of the time they are correct.

Tessitura

I am not taking sides here, but I have seen the rage mudballs cause. I throw them all the time at random people cause I am a simple man and easily amused, but the amount of angry and hateful PM's I get for it is baffling to me. These are not rpers by the way, these are just people I see while I run around in the world.

SteveCampsOut

snoozy wrote: »

i have never encountered this but am sad to hear that rpers are harassed like this. what a pathetic thing to do

i agree there should be an 'opt out' option to prevent this.
or maybe setting a player to ignored could prevent them from interacting with you in any way?

They could definitely improve the power of Ignore in this game!

Dusk_Coven

doomette wrote: »

If they do the opt out thing, they would definitely have to prevent PVPers from opting out of pies, as there’s an achievement involved. And if you opt out, you shouldn’t be able to mudball/snowball/pie others.
Other than those caveats, it seems like a fair solution.

I think an interesting idea might be to not only limit mudballing to open PvP areas, but make it also issue a duel challenge in those areas. That would mean having to remove the same faction duelling restriction in Cyrodiil though.

Or it could issue a duel challenge but you couldn't mudball anyone with auto-ignore on duels.

Darkenarlol

mudballs are fun to throw but...

they can cause a lot of 8utthurt when

you are on the receiving end


sadly there is no solution that not gonna

ruin someone's fun to protect yours


on other side why not to cover the harrasing

person in volleys of your own mudballs

while commenting their pathetic useless *** way of life

(in role ofc and without breaking TOS on your side )

VelimOrthic

I would be very disappointed if they took role playing out of the game. Especially my preferred form of role playing, which is to pretend my mud balls are shattering cheek bones, knocking out as many teeth as possible, and spinning necks around so hard it results in near-decapitation. We all know that's not what's actually happening, and there isn't always a way to even share this scenario with others, but often that's what role playing is all about. Keeping your fun to yourself.

SofiDesune

Samadhi wrote: »

SofiDesune wrote: »

I mean.. Just as I writing this, a player was going at us for a good long while.

do you have the whole group report the player in question in this scenario?

We do report people as a group when this happens, yet nothing is done "visibly" through these hours as I dont assume ZOS sits ready when us on EU runs into these people.

Minyassa

It's not just role-players or people blocking stations that get mudball harassment. I am apparently a troll magnet as I have gotten mudballed walking out of a wayshrine (ANY wayshrine, not the one at Skywatch that would have a reason to be a hotspot) many, many times. I don't wear particularly loud costumes. I don't bounce around getting in people's faces. I don't whisper at strangers. I don't snark in zone chat. I don't even HAVE flappies or bears 99% of the time, I even forget to summon them in combat on the few toons I do have. And I don't RP in this game. So it's really got to be just bad luck that I tend to attract the sort of person who will literally follow me down the road for fifteen minutes throwing birds at me repeatedly, or have people use a mudball to halt me on my way to a resource node so that they could reach it first. I even had a friend who was one of these "I never see this kind of harassment" people witness this when I went to go show her a new mount and got attacked by a repeating mudballer straight out of the wayshrine, and she was flabbergasted.

I've learned to be a bit of a Mongol in game now in sheer self defense; I get on my mount as soon as possible everywhere I can, or stay engaged with a vendor or some sort of interactive in game if I am going to be in the same place for a little while. I've come to recognize the sound of a mudball a distance away and immediately beeline the opposite direction. I'm just sick of it, it's gotten more than old. And I'm especially disgusted that it can be used as an attack to make someone lose a resource node. So I am one who also wishes that there was a way to opt out.

In LOTRO they debated this for years with what they term "forced emotes", that being any emote that causes another person's toon to react uncontrollably and interrupt their actions or delay action for a few seconds. They finally implemented an opt-out system that allowed people to make themselves immune to force emotes; it also prevents them from USING those emotes themselves while they have that option checked. People who liked to grief with those emotes screamed bloody murder for a while, but they adjusted. It was a great relief for those who were the targets of the griefing. Nothing broke--they even have achievements based on how many times you use those emotes, and people are still able to find PLENTY of participating targets to get those achievements. The people who love the emotes get to use them on each other and everyone can be happy except anyone whose motive was malicious.

I'd really like to see something like that implemented in this game. Using mudballs to harass people *is* griefing. Using them to get ahead of someone while resource farming should be considered an exploit, or at least acknowledged as PvP. The only people that an opt-out system would make unhappy are the people who like to upset others.

DovahkiinHeart

What if there was a certain cooldown for mudball/snowballs per account (to prevent people from swapping toons to bypass this rule)? If over x mudballs/snowballs/etc are thrown within y minutes, then the person getting pelted will get a message asking if they wish the harasser to cease. Answering yes will cause the harasser to incur a bounty the next time they misuse the memento at the same person. The bounty starts out small, to hopefully get the message across, but if the harasser continues then it will increase.

The bounty will wear off once certain time has passed. 30 min?

This will allow some folks to use the memento for fun, as well as spamming them in-between consenting friends, but if it becomes clear that it is harassment, then there is a consequence.

Just throwing this idea out there.

ApostateHobo

Wow how hard is it to understand that there is a difference between one or two mudballs, and pelting somebody for hours on end. If you aren't actively harassing people for an extended period then this post is not about you. That simple. Some people really will argue over anything.

mague

Royaji wrote: »

This might be devils advocate a bit but I do find this idea very amusing. What if they are acting out their story about an aggressive mud slinging madman?

Not working, because you cant interact with the madman.

Passive ganking is as old as MMO. Mudball, endless invitations to duells or training mobs on the RPers... Nothing new there...

It is very easy to spot RPers and it is a total lack of respect to others to interrupt them. Imagine you could jump into a trial and mudball the tank and force him into animations ? I dont RP much, my last RP char was mute, but once in a while i just sit down and listen. Just as i listen to the bard in northern Elsweyr.

Sheezabeast

I will say this. My rp guild only uses emote blue text when in a home. In overland rp, we only use group chat for rp dialogue. And guess what? We still get pelted with crap from trolls, simply by standing in one spot, looking fabulous in our outfits, or performing an emote.

The issue is griefing others, attention seeking children and adults children who see an audience and innately thrive off of negative attention.

Irfind

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I will say this. My rp guild only uses emote blue text when in a home. In overland rp, we only use group chat for rp dialogue. And guess what? We still get pelted with crap from trolls, simply by standing in one spot, looking fabulous in our outfits, or performing an emote.

The issue is griefing others, attention seeking children and adults children who see an audience and innately thrive off of negative attention.

NOOOO dont do that, i love to read the storys (In Taverns i just walk slow to a free spot and sit down like a npc I also dont mudball you and jump in your faces)

Sheezabeast

Irfind wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

I will say this. My rp guild only uses emote blue text when in a home. In overland rp, we only use group chat for rp dialogue. And guess what? We still get pelted with crap from trolls, simply by standing in one spot, looking fabulous in our outfits, or performing an emote.

The issue is griefing others, attention seeking children and adults children who see an audience and innately thrive off of negative attention.

NOOOO dont do that, i love to read the storys (In Taverns i just walk slow to a free spot and sit down like a npc I also dont mudball you and jump in your faces)

Public taverns are thriving right now!

(Edited to avoid troll bait in game)

Arunei

@VelimOrthic
Congratulation, you're officially in the camp of 'inconsiderate and rude'. I'm sure having a personality that finds enjoyment out of harassing people having fun in a way you seem to deem unacceptable will get you far in life. Also your comment about 'keeping you fun to yourself' is such a huge hypocrisy, because pelting people over and over with these things is not keeping your fun to yourself.

Taunky wrote: »

The only thing that will put a stop to this is if roleplayers have access to their own server, because nothing is going to stop me from chucking my mementos are your immersion.

Honestly even then it wouldn't help, because trolls and griefers could just join the RP server. That said, no one ever said the occasional memento is a bad thing; in fact, pretty much all of us have stated that people using them once or twice as they pass through is fine. The problem comes from those who will literally sit at a place people are RPing for an hour or longer and repeatedly pelt them with the Mementos.

Ackwalan wrote: »

I feel the same way about rpers spamming the blue emot chat completely clogging up the chat window. Nobody wants to see you doing your story time.

Except people have posted here saying they like stopping to watch RP they find, so your logic is immediately proven wrong. Also you have this cool ability to filter and change your chat tabs, did you know that? Not wanting to see people 'spamming blue emote chat' in an MMORPG is hardly the same as people being targeted with these Mementos over and over and over and over and over. You're only going to see that "spam" for a few seconds as you pass through, as opposed to RPers being subjected to harassment either until they leave, or the person trolling/griefing finally decides to do something more productive with their lives than bother people in a game.

Noxavian wrote: »

Imagine thinking tossing a digital mud ball at a virtual character is bullying.


Holy....

When it's done a few times by someone just passing? No, not at all. When someone camps your RP to continuously hit you and your group for 30+ minutes at a time? Then yes, that is 100% harassment/bullying, because at that point they're literally doing it only because they know they're being a nuisance and they want to interrupt what others are doing. How hard is that to understand? It's against the TOS, as has been directly posted by someone a few pages back. Trying to defend it as 'just having fun' is hardly and excuse when there are hundreds other people just running around who these people could target. But no, they focus specifically on RPers. Why do people insist this isn't harassment?

Tessitura wrote: »

I am not taking sides here, but I have seen the rage mudballs cause. I throw them all the time at random people cause I am a simple man and easily amused, but the amount of angry and hateful PM's I get for it is baffling to me. These are not rpers by the way, these are just people I see while I run around in the world.

Some people get really upset over weird things. I generally don't care if I'm hit with a Memento while I'm out just doing random stuff. It's when someone camps an RP I'm taking part in and does it for an hour or more that I get irritated.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Discussions about harassment towards roleplayers show up on the forum every now and then, and every time I get disgusted over the number of people who are fine with it, even think it's fun.

SofiDesune

I would like to give a thanks to the people partaking in the debate, even more those who comes up with different ways this could be handled, who knows, maybe ZoS will one day read this and discuss it!

I will say, I can understand if someone finds us roleplayers annoying if we take up a lot of chat space or whatnot, but generally we meet people run past us and asking what we are doing and when we explain a good amount of people will apologize for disturbing, ask if they can watch or encourage us on and that is honestly something that makes us smile and have a good laugh.

I know some people may not believe how often the "mudballing" or "chat harassment" happens often, but I can say on behalf of a lot of people who felt like I was going to waste my time with the post as people likely wouldnt believe, it happens more often than people might see. Having talked with people on the NA server who cannot even go out of housing or if they do, they feel forced to use party and group chat because otherwise, people will come after them... I think this could be a good (And already have been) debate about how we need to give space to each other, wether you like PVE, PVP, RP or all of it!

tomofhyrule

I haven't been pelted much, but it happens every so often. But every time, it's been one guy who pelts and runs off, and then that's the end of it. Anyone who's just running around a zone pelting people constantly for hours though? Just...why? You don't get an achievement, you don't get EXP, you just get people pissed off.

I like to RP my main, but alone - I RP in the same way I do when I play Skyrim. I'll walk places, read the dialogue out loud, and favor 1st person. I also have some sessions where I'm just farming or doing a quest that's not related, so I speed my way a bit there. But I don't RP with others. I was actually wondering how people were getting the blue text the few times I've seen it.

The one thing I've noticed that annoys me though is being at an outfit station trying to get an outfit or dye something, and then someone comes by and uses a group buff that makes everyone glow and take out their weapons. You can't put them away without exiting the outfit screen, so it's usually tedious to get back to it, and then they run by again. Seriously, what are you even fighting in town that needs that buff? You're not dueling someone, you're specifically doing that to annoy people.

Same idea. What's the goal? Harmless fun? Ok fine. Some people will be annoyed, but once and done isn't anything. Repeated trying to get a rise out of people? Really, don't you have anything better to do?

NotaDaedraWorshipper

@tomofhyrule

You can sheathe your weapon while using the outfit station. Just press your key that is designated to sheathe your weapon. Z is default I think.

emilyhyoyeon

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Discussions about harassment towards roleplayers show up on the forum every now and then, and every time I get disgusted over the number of people who are fine with it, even think it's fun.

yeah I really don't understand what is essentially people defending harassing people. It's not even about rping specifically. just don't harass people

yodased

I think the issue here is a complete lack of respect and acknowledgement of rping as a valid subsection of players.

Doesnt matter if its mudballs or screaming in fixed voice chat on console or bringing a raid group to interrupt planned activites.

The point is the people who disrupt role-playing groups are harassing other players because they don't accept it as "proper" or "real"

So intent matters here. If you get mudballed in a rp event and it de-eacalates then its whatever, but if someone is going out of their way to disrupt your activity then that is different.

1 or 2 mudballs is a pita, but its part of the game. Regardless of execution, spending time to reduce others ability to have fun is harassment.

And no you don't get to claim "im role-playing a jerk" that doesn't fly because again of intent

Gaebriel0410

It's no secret that players harassing roleplayers have really really small swords which on top of their diminutive size, are kept sheathed.

I bet they're flailing around right now, flinging their mud balls in fear for the truth to be exposed for all to see: that in the end, they're (really easily) unhorsed in the joust, no matter the stock of their horse.

Vietfox

SofiDesune wrote: »

They see us RPing in the wild Tamriel? Mudball for 1-3 hours.

Thank god i wasn't drinking anything when i read this 😂😂😂

Sanctum74

I think respect is a two way street. Whether it be pelting someone with mud balls for an extended period or spamming chat, both are disrespectful.