Magsorcs are OP in BG deathmatch?

Nick_Balza

Yes

On the one hand sorcs are pissing me off because of pets, fragments, streak and stealing kills. I made a magsorc and it takes nothing to make easy kills on DM even in 1 vs 2-3 opponents confrontation.
On the other hand the problem is not in sorcs or templars that they are obvious OP. Heavy nerfs on NB, which made them absolutely useless against middle skilled players of any class. Slow necromancers, which have nothing to offer against insane speed and mobility of sorc or templar. DK and Wardens are able to show some competition with good gear and proper build.
So, yes. Magsorc is OP, but only because nobody cares about development of other classes.

Maulkin

Thogard wrote: »

Just shorten the range of the execute imo

I prefer to make the explosion only proc when the magSorc themselves are dealing damage to the opponent below the execute threshold. The initial damage tick also included. Therefore 0 change to 1v1 or PvE potential, but significantly reducing the Xv1 and kill-stealing threat. Also in step with the change made to PotL/PL to not count other people's damage.

Imo that's one of the two changes PvP magSorc needs along with making Streak blockable again for some counter-play to the enormous kiting potential that one skill has (both move and stun). I'd prefer some marginal improvements to Rune Cage, which should be the class unblockable stun.

wheem_ESO

Weesacs wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

As I've said for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if it's impossible to balance MagSorc for Death Match without over-nerfing them for any other content. I suspect the simplest solution is just to decrease the amount of points Kills earn in DM, and increase the amount of points Assists earn.

That probably would be a simple solution however personally I think the 'best' solution would be to give the kill to the person who did the most damage to the enemy. This would be fairer IMO without changing the sorc class in any way.

This would carry the risk of giving far too many kills to AOE spam builds. We might all start having nightmares after every match turned into nothing but Charged Ice Staves, Bombard spam, and all the ground AOE one could muster.

buzzclops

No

They are only “OP” because of solo q. No one bothers targeting them because they’ll streak away from the fight and just range kill the low experience players that the bad matchmaking put in every game regardless of “mmr”. When in group environment you should NEVER chase a sorc. That’s it. Stay with your team(not always easy nowadays) And their single target range combo will be hard to land. When they streak around if you group up you outnumber their team

Commandment

Yes

buzzclops wrote: »

They are only “OP” because of solo q. No one bothers targeting them because they’ll streak away from the fight and just range kill the low experience players that the bad matchmaking put in every game regardless of “mmr”. When in group environment you should NEVER chase a sorc. That’s it. Stay with your team(not always easy nowadays) And their single target range combo will be hard to land. When they streak around if you group up you outnumber their team

Yah, you better save those rolls for that sniping sorc hidden behind the wall.

Oh wait? You want to kill him first? Zipity do da, I can blink across the map without consequences and stun everyone in my path.

Xargas13

Yes

For stamina classes they might not be OP, but for magicka ranged class, they dish quite a lot of damage, with recent changes it became even worse.

Weesacs

No

Having played BGs extensively this patch I would have to change my answer if I could to 'yes'. The healing debuff is being felt big time on different classes which is very noticeable ... however in the meantime, sorcs are just doing what they normally do ... but against weaker opponent's and getting even bigger K/D ratios.

Hotdog_23

Weesacs wrote: »

Having played BGs extensively this patch I would have to change my answer if I could to 'yes'. The healing debuff is being felt big time on different classes which is very noticeable ... however in the meantime, sorcs are just doing what they normally do ... but against weaker opponent's and getting even bigger K/D ratios.

Unpopular opinion but therefore shields should have received the same 10% nerf as healing. All it did was make a strong BG class even stronger.

Atherakhia

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

Having played BGs extensively this patch I would have to change my answer if I could to 'yes'. The healing debuff is being felt big time on different classes which is very noticeable ... however in the meantime, sorcs are just doing what they normally do ... but against weaker opponent's and getting even bigger K/D ratios.

Unpopular opinion but therefore shields should have received the same 10% nerf as healing. All it did was make a strong BG class even stronger.

Not really sure that would really change anything. The problem is most of the shields in the game are already of questionable use. Nerfing shields across the board would just make most of them completely unusable and Sorcs would likely barely notice. This is basically what happened with the healing nerf. The classes that needed to be toned down with this change (Templars and Sorcs) barely noticed it but classes that were barely hanging on with the meager heals they had (MagDK) have really noticed a dramatic difference.

OBJnoob

^--- And that's why we need a progressive tax code. Uh. For ESO pvp I mean.

Decimus

Yes

I didn't really want to vote on this poll knowing how weak they are in 1v1, but seeing 4+ of these little *** in literally every BG is getting old.

No one likes doing all the work pressuring someone down, doing all the work and then having the kill stolen by a sorc (either enemy or friendly).

No one likes people who successfully run streak away from almost every 1v1 and return to spam execute on you while you're fighting someone else.

No one likes useless team mates who streak away and leave you outnumbered against opponents.


Sorc is a horribly designed class for BGs - or perhaps BGs and how they work are horribly designed for sorcs.


Either way, ZOS should probably do something considering the amount of sorcs in BGs is only growing and growing.

kingsforged

Feels like EVERY BG at the moment has 3-4 sorcs and 4-6 nightblades... and they're the only classes I have any major trouble with. The utterly ridiculous pet-sorc spam is a joke... you're basically fighting a small army, and it totally ruins the targeting... they don't even need to streak when you can't hit them because there's a daedtroth, clanfear/imp, winged twilight and a freakin' storm atronarch in front of them.

As for trashbla.. I mean, nightblades... everyone and their dog is running around with some cookie-cutter, cloned snipe-gank. Who needs skill when you have free invisibility?

Weesacs

No

Agreed. Also I see NBs have joined Mag Sorcs and jumped on the Engine Guardian band wagon as well. Great ... more pets to play around.

Didgerion

No

Maybe,

But thats all about it, they overperform in deathmatch, and quite useless everywere else.
IDK why people complaing about mag sorcs when stamina builds totally dominates PVP nowaday.

dhboy123

Yes

What a ridiculous thread. Everyone has been saying this for the past 2 years.

Everyone knows MagSorc are extremely OP in every aspect of PVP but ZOS won't do anything about it.. They don't care about PvP.

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO MAG SORC OR GO CRY !

Hotdog_23

Did a lot of BG’s the last 2 days and every match their where at least 4-7 magsorc in every game. I know because I counted them for giggles . What was funny is I didn’t see a lot of wardens stam or magic.

Be safe and have fun

SweepsAllClowns

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

What was funny is I didn’t see a lot of wardens stam or magic.

I have 4 breton wardens on Xbox NA and play battlegrounds with them daily, on EU I have or probably at this point could say had 1 breton and 2 argonian wardens on my destroyed account, breton was my second 5 star character on EU and I've created exactly same looking and named character on NA. My magicka wardens work quite well against magicka sorcerers, the crystallized slab frustrates them eventually and they streak away usually, just like most sorcerers do if they don't get the fast ranged execute kills.

Fischblut

No

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

So OP that the sorc died fast when she was focused by two enemies at 1:56 mark And overall enemy players in that match acted like they were newbies in PvP.

No one likes doing all the work pressuring someone down, doing all the work and then having the kill stolen by a sorc (either enemy or friendly).

It can be true for any other class. Eveyone can deliver killing blow, and I'm very surprised that some people care about such things. I only care about the place of my team cause of AP reward in the end. What if somebody other did light attack and secured kill cause of it?
Also, once I was killed by somebody's Shadowrend - it hit me for 300 damage, and it was killing blow I was not even mad, so funny!

No one likes people who successfully run streak away from almost every 1v1 and return to spam execute on you while you're fighting someone else.

What about nightblades who cloak away? Or stamina classes running away fast? Or any vampire mistform-ing away? Or any player with decent skills running away/using LoS? And no matter the class you play, finishing enemies who are low health is always good opportunity, cause in BGs there can be no dueling etiquette (like in IC, for example). Eveyone not on your team is enemy and must die.

No one likes useless team mates who streak away and leave you outnumbered against opponents.

Again, any class can do it. I really dislike having coward nightblades on my team, for example. It feels like you have team members around, then you face few enemies - and your teammates just cloak away, while you are being focused And it's not always true, of course. Sometimes I have nightblades in my team that are very nice allies - I engage enemy players, they are distracted and focused on me, while my allies quickly pick them off

Every class can be OP, if their opponents are less experienced/not prepared to face certain abilities.

Lorkhan

Yes

They can kill steal a lot with the best execute. Thats it

MurderMostFoul

Yes

Fischblut wrote: »

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

So OP that the sorc died fast when she was focused by two enemies at 1:56 mark And overall enemy players in that match acted like they were newbies in PvP.

No one likes doing all the work pressuring someone down, doing all the work and then having the kill stolen by a sorc (either enemy or friendly).

It can be true for any other class. Eveyone can deliver killing blow, and I'm very surprised that some people care about such things. I only care about the place of my team cause of AP reward in the end. What if somebody other did light attack and secured kill cause of it?
Also, once I was killed by somebody's Shadowrend - it hit me for 300 damage, and it was killing blow I was not even mad, so funny!

No one likes people who successfully run streak away from almost every 1v1 and return to spam execute on you while you're fighting someone else.

What about nightblades who cloak away? Or stamina classes running away fast? Or any vampire mistform-ing away? Or any player with decent skills running away/using LoS? And no matter the class you play, finishing enemies who are low health is always good opportunity, cause in BGs there can be no dueling etiquette (like in IC, for example). Eveyone not on your team is enemy and must die.

No one likes useless team mates who streak away and leave you outnumbered against opponents.

Again, any class can do it. I really dislike having coward nightblades on my team, for example. It feels like you have team members around, then you face few enemies - and your teammates just cloak away, while you are being focused And it's not always true, of course. Sometimes I have nightblades in my team that are very nice allies - I engage enemy players, they are distracted and focused on me, while my allies quickly pick them off

Every class can be OP, if their opponents are less experienced/not prepared to face certain abilities.

The vid is cool, but I don't consider kills in non-DM matches to be demonstrative of skill or power.

As to your "any class can do it points" -

I agree that any class can be OP in the right hands, or against bad enough opponents, but saying so ignores the need to critically look at each class and identify things that may need adjusting. Turning a critical eye to Magsorc in BG DM we see:

-The only class with a ranged, high damage, auto execute.
-A class with HIGH, sustained ranged damage, that is given an escape tool that instantly keeps them at range, and comes with an unblockable stun.

Honestly, with damage the way it is this patch, I feel like Magsorcs aren't as much as an outlier in BG DM anymore. But, just because every class can be good, we shouldn't discontinue looking where balance can be improved.

elfman236b14_ESO

No

If you have difficulty fightIng a magsorc you’re taking the wrong approach.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

elfman236b14_ESO wrote: »

If you have difficulty fightIng a magsorc you’re taking the wrong approach.

What is the "right approach?"

Fawn4287

Yes

Far too strong, the sustain with torc of constancy + convert is ridiculous and why is it that magsorc is the only class in the game with both a delayed damage (curse) and a proc damage ability (C Frag)? I think one or the other needs to be changed, its far too easy to output high single target damage at very long range. Magsorcs been directly and indirectly buffed for too long.

Emma_Overload

No

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

elfman236b14_ESO wrote: »

If you have difficulty fightIng a magsorc you’re taking the wrong approach.

What is the "right approach?"

Gap close + root spam and op stamina burst. If your ult isn't ready, just wiggle back and forth or run around trees, and the Sorc will never be able to hit you. Whatever you do, don't try to fight the Sorc from a distance, get right up in his face!

Brrrofski

I think mages wrath is the only real issue.

As for a possible rework the skill, have it so the extra damage only goes off if you damage someone under 20% health.

Daffen

Magsorc only strong against new/casual players changemymind. At least in cp pvp.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

elfman236b14_ESO wrote: »

If you have difficulty fightIng a magsorc you’re taking the wrong approach.

What is the "right approach?"

Gap close + root spam and op stamina burst. If your ult isn't ready, just wiggle back and forth or run around trees, and the Sorc will never be able to hit you. Whatever you do, don't try to fight the Sorc from a distance, get right up in his face!

So you need a gab closer, and a spammable immobilize, and your Ult? That doesn't sound like parity to me. Also, Bolt Escape grants snare/immobilization immunity. Even with what you've said, streaking away is still very possible for the sorc. You kinda need them off CC immunity, and either out of stam or slow to react.

Daffen wrote: »

Magsorc only strong against new/casual players changemymind. At least in cp pvp.

Maybe, but this poll is expressly limited to BG deathmatch.

Dakkx

No

If sorc is your number one issue in bgs then it shouldn’t be that hard for you to drop something to slot a gap closer. I rarely have issues killing sorcs they are usually the squishiest targets in a game. Line your burst up and stun them at the right time and you’re good to go. Sorcs are only op in death matches where the opposing teams don’t stick together. If you have a team working together and staying balled up good luck getting a kill as a sorcerer.

Cinbri

Problem is their mechanic of of automatic execute. This proc debuff is like 90% chance of finish target and steal kill. Should be changed into smth like spell strategist - jsut give more damage agaisnt affected target.