Magsorcs are OP in BG deathmatch?

heng14rwb17_ESO

GO SORC OR GO CRY !

BNOC

No

Good mag sorcs will always do alright, same as any decent player on any class.

Is it too easy to be a noob, deal 300k damage a BG and have 20+ kills where experienced players on other classes are doing 2M damage and getting 10 kills? Yes, but that’s just the ease of fury.

You can tell the difference between the two player types (skilled/experienced and unskilled/inexperienced), the problem is that kills in BGs makes bad players who don’t earn them feel like they did. Rewarding these turds for effortlessly pushing executes is the issue and always has been.

oxygen_thief

No

BNOC wrote: »

2M damage and getting 10 kills?

people do millions of damage when they slot a lot of aoe abilities. does aoe spam make you a good player?

Iskiab

Yes

oxygen_thief wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

2M damage and getting 10 kills?

people do millions of damage when they slot a lot of aoe abilities. does aoe spam make you a good player?

Not at all, or someone who doesn’t know how to pull off a burst combo is even worse. A lot of games I’ll do 400k damage as a healer and have a comparable number of kills to dps on my team, not because I’m kill stealing but because I’m doing a proper combo. If your damage is 2 million and you have 5 kills, that’s a sign of not knowing your class or not focus firing and treating BGs like a duel.

wheem_ESO

Iskiab wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

2M damage and getting 10 kills?

people do millions of damage when they slot a lot of aoe abilities. does aoe spam make you a good player?

Not at all, or someone who doesn’t know how to pull off a burst combo is even worse. A lot of games I’ll do 400k damage as a healer and have a comparable number of kills to dps on my team, not because I’m kill stealing but because I’m doing a proper combo. If your damage is 2 million and you have 5 kills, that’s a sign of not knowing your class or not focus firing and treating BGs like a duel.

Sometimes people can get very high damage numbers and low kills/assists due to powerful healing on the opposing team(s). Other times the high damage is, like @oxygen_thief points out, due to a lot of AOE damage that isn't necessarily very good at landing kills.

I said that to a lot of people back when I was actively playing Magicka Warden and would get comments on my scoreboard damage being >= 1m, even if I spent much of the time healing and never used an offensive ultimate. Just keeping down Wall of Frost + firing Shalks into big clumps would add up to a lot of damage on the scoreboard, though just doing that certainly didn't have any real "killing power" on its own. In order to actually land kills I'd have to mix in spammables and stuns, but those things don't cheese up the scoreboard numbers nearly as high.

Iskiab

Yes

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

oxygen_thief wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

2M damage and getting 10 kills?

people do millions of damage when they slot a lot of aoe abilities. does aoe spam make you a good player?

Not at all, or someone who doesn’t know how to pull off a burst combo is even worse. A lot of games I’ll do 400k damage as a healer and have a comparable number of kills to dps on my team, not because I’m kill stealing but because I’m doing a proper combo. If your damage is 2 million and you have 5 kills, that’s a sign of not knowing your class or not focus firing and treating BGs like a duel.

Sometimes people can get very high damage numbers and low kills/assists due to powerful healing on the opposing team(s). Other times the high damage is, like @oxygen_thief points out, due to a lot of AOE damage that isn't necessarily very good at landing kills.

I said that to a lot of people back when I was actively playing Magicka Warden and would get comments on my scoreboard damage being >= 1m, even if I spent much of the time healing and never used an offensive ultimate. Just keeping down Wall of Frost + firing Shalks into big clumps would add up to a lot of damage on the scoreboard, though just doing that certainly didn't have any real "killing power" on its own. In order to actually land kills I'd have to mix in spammables and stuns, but those things don't cheese up the scoreboard numbers nearly as high.

Yup, in your average game where people have figured defense out people will have maybe 800k damage and 0-200k healing. Since people have 20k health and might die say 5 times on average. That means each player is healing themselves for 500-700k.

Most healing is hot based, even burst heals aren’t that strong. Pressure is good to attack someone’s sustain, but it’s all about burst to punch through hots. Even as a healer if I spam a burst heal on someone if 3 people are attacking them they die. If you have 4 people who can’t kill people on other teams it means people aren’t assisting or too tanky.

PhoenixGrey

No

I really don't think class or balance matters anymore since I can't get majority of my skills to fire off in a timely manner this patch

Joinovikova

No

oxygen_thief wrote: »

you can steal a lot in melee if you know how. you mean fury spam under the op isnt it? i dont use fury on my sorc because its pretty useless most of the time when fighting tanky decent players.

Exactly Mag sorc is not OP class. may be on LOWEST MMR.. I also nnot use wrath because on high mmr this skill is simply useless. I dont understand why people still cry about mag sorc.. I have lowest avarage kills per BG on my magsorc of all classes..

Joinovikova

No

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tried BGs as a NB (mag and stam).
^ Compared to this, everything is OP lol.

Stamblade is strong class..

Iskiab

Yes

Joinovikova wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tried BGs as a NB (mag and stam).
^ Compared to this, everything is OP lol.

Stamblade is strong class..

Stamblade is a tough class to do well with, especially in BGs. Are you playing objectives when you do BGs? Saying wrath is useless and stamblade is strong goes against everything I’ve seen.

usmguy1234

Thogard wrote: »

Just shorten the range of the execute imo

Or just make kills based off of damage done not killing blow. No need to gut sorcs any further than they are currently.

Bashev

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Just shorten the range of the execute imo

Or just make kills based off of damage done not killing blow. No need to gut sorcs any further than they are currently.

It doenst work this solution because if 2 teams fight for 20 seconds and then the third one comes, that team will not be able to make a kill as the other teams did more damage.

Commandment

Yes

Only people playing SORC will say no, especially when majority of people play sorc in BG's or DK

SebDeTyra

Yes

A ranged execute is just bad game design. Come on...... there's no risk involved just nuke and execute from range.

Joinovikova

No

Iskiab wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tried BGs as a NB (mag and stam).
^ Compared to this, everything is OP lol.

Stamblade is strong class..

Stamblade is a tough class to do well with, especially in BGs. Are you playing objectives when you do BGs? Saying wrath is useless and stamblade is strong goes against everything I’ve seen.

Wrath is useless skill. Its usually do not have enough dmg to kill descend pvp build even it proc. 90% of magsorc on high mmr do not use this ability and rather use some other useful ability. Wrath is only use for kill stealing and majority of kill steals are from your party memeber...

Stamblade is only harder to play then mag sorc.. but When I look on numbers from pvp meter my Stamblade have on avarage more kill then my mag sorc and both have more then 3kill:1 death ratio and 4assistance : 1 death ratio Stamblade has problem in Chaos Ball game thats true but this issue share also Mag Sorc..(most avrage kill per bg I have on my Stamden). NB just need more practise and clever play thats true compare to sorc or heavy tank StamDK .

Current mag sorc is not top class by far Stamcro and godplar are much stronger then mag sorc in small scale pvp like BG..

Joinovikova

No

Commandment wrote: »

Only people playing SORC will say no, especially when majority of people play sorc in BG's or DK

only people which never play mag sorc will say yes...

Joinovikova

No

SebDeTyra wrote: »

A ranged execute is just bad game design. Come on...... there's no risk involved just nuke and execute from range.

I also voted for replace with some decend class spamable .. at least on High mmr majority of sourc do not use wraht..

Berek_Bloodfang

Yes

Yeah... if one thing has come from the "Solo-Q" era it is how obvious Magicka Sorceress are completely overpowered atm, mostly their "hardened ward" being sooooooooooo strong compared to every other shield in the game and the fact that spamming your shield procs your burst/combo "crystal fragments"....

Joinovikova

No

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah... if one thing has come from the "Solo-Q" era it is how obvious Magicka Sorceress are completely overpowered atm, mostly their "hardened ward" being sooooooooooo strong compared to every other shield in the game and the fact that spamming your shield procs your burst/combo "crystal fragments"....

... difference between hardened ward and Dapmen magic.. is few % sheild size ... and 216 magice.. yy realy OP spell...

Berek_Bloodfang

Yes

Joinovikova wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah... if one thing has come from the "Solo-Q" era it is how obvious Magicka Sorceress are completely overpowered atm, mostly their "hardened ward" being sooooooooooo strong compared to every other shield in the game and the fact that spamming your shield procs your burst/combo "crystal fragments"....

... difference between hardened ward and Dapmen magic.. is few % sheild size ... and 216 magice.. yy realy OP spell...

You have no idea how WRONG you are... try using the following website to see how each skill scales...

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

Iskiab

Yes

I feel like some of the sorc opinions are really disingenuous. I mean, if you don’t use wrath, why do you care if it gets its range reduced? That wouldn’t effect pve and only pvp.

justaquickword

Well. Speaking as someone who's so bad at PvP he should probably have his controller taken off him..

The only character I have that I have any chance with in over 50 battlegrounds is the Mag Sorc.

So it must be OP.

Confirmed.

Joinovikova

No

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Yeah... if one thing has come from the "Solo-Q" era it is how obvious Magicka Sorceress are completely overpowered atm, mostly their "hardened ward" being sooooooooooo strong compared to every other shield in the game and the fact that spamming your shield procs your burst/combo "crystal fragments"....

... difference between hardened ward and Dapmen magic.. is few % sheild size ... and 216 magice.. yy realy OP spell...

You have no idea how WRONG you are... try using the following website to see how each skill scales...

https://esoitem.uesp.net/viewSkills.php

.. you also need to count "Each piece of Light Armor worn increases the amount of damage absorbed by 3%" and then the difference reduce by 50% due to Battle spirit and on avarage build in nonCp the difrence is around 1000 shield size more to hardened war..

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

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HEBREWHAMMERRR

No

Urzigurumash wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Well said. I mained mnb for so long but leveled a sorc second and even I sat mine because of how broken rune prison magsorc was 😂 everyone despises magsorcs because they steal kills extremely effectively. They’re still tough to play and squishy if you drain their stam.

I've always thought it was reasonably equitable, and in line with RPG tradition, that MagSorcs were capable of the highest amount of sustained damage output, but had little chance of survival if caught low on stam and with their shields down. These days, it seems a good magsorc knows to evade us 2h Stam in 1v1, whereas during the PetSorc meta they were almost invincible in any setting. Sorc Pets are still an excellent counter to Leap and various Stam proc sets, but at least I can now effectively dispatch of them before engaging the Sorc.

As to that evasion, this stun on Streak is a little challenging for me, but in the short period of time after the Pet Health fix and before the addition of stun to Streak (or at least before its widespread use), I found MagSorc to be a bit weak. I guess now I should slot Chains over other gap closers to help against Streak, but it's often unreliable.

For the most part, I would rather face a MagSorc 1v1 than a MagNB. On top of that, I don't have a clear memory of ever losing a Chaosball / Relic game to a MagSorc-led team.

I always assume you are on MagNB when I see 5 stars, I recall we've had a match or two lately where we dominated together, but every time I've recently had the fortune to be on Dakkx's team I was stumbling and flopping all over the place.

Yeah if my mnb is on your team I’m going to support the win at all costs and usually will slot trans and refreshing path with troll king to keep my team alive and keep up defiles and CC on healers. If I’m on sorc I can still do a bit of off heal but the group CC with streak is more risky but the upside is more kills for my team. It depends how I’m feeling but both have their upsides. No matter what class I’m on I’m always ranged harassing magsorcs. That’s what people don’t understand if a sorc is shield stacking / streaking, and overall playing defensive, they’re doing literally no damage and no stealing kills. Keep pressure on them, simple as that.

ketsparrowhawk

No

By themselves I don't think they're anything special. If there are 1 or 2 sorcs in a match, they're fine. If there are 3 or more, it can be a real struggle for a mele player.

NinchiTV

No

The good msorcs are definitely difficult to play against (from stam perspective) if they are allowed open range and little pressure. And I have come across teams where most are msorcs so I know the frustrations of getting hit by multiple curses and frags then getting blown up by endless. I end up flanking them and dodging frags, applying pressure and ulting when their shields are down. Also having a hot up so it'll out heal the curse dmg. Good msorcs can be annoying but are not OP. Look at stamnecro for OP

kuldar1994

No

Magsorc is effective against bad players. In high mmr BG-s they re less useful to the group than most classes.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

kuldar1994 wrote: »

Magsorc is effective against bad players. In high mmr BG-s they re less useful to the group than most classes.

Magsorcs can do an impressive amount of cross healing, while still racking up kills and avoiding death. Of course they can wreck bad players, but it's silly to pretend that they are significantly less effective in high MMR matches.

PhoenixGrey

No

Mag sorc pretty much confirms kills for its own team. If you die to a mag sorc in a BG that too in a tank meta, you are probably a potato who forgets to heal, roll dodge or block.