Magsorcs are OP in BG deathmatch?

MurderMostFoul

Yes

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

If you die to a mag sorc in a BG that too in a tank meta...

?

Can you fix that?

Berek_Bloodfang

Yes

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

MurderMostFoul

Yes

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

While I find the video illustrative of my assertion that Magsorcs are OP in Deathmatch, I also think farming kills in objective modes isn't the best example.

Hotdog_23

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

While I find the video illustrative of my assertion that Magsorcs are OP in Deathmatch, I also think farming kills in objective modes isn't the best example.

I don't know I watched the entire video and they did play to the objective most of the time. Would have been better if they camped at their own relic rather than the opponents one. Good video of a mag sorc total skill kit that helps them compete in BG very effectively.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

Magsorc is soo broken it's not even funny...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dyx4Tg5Bvto&feature=emb_logo

While I find the video illustrative of my assertion that Magsorcs are OP in Deathmatch, I also think farming kills in objective modes isn't the best example.

I don't know I watched the entire video and they did play to the objective most of the time. Would have been better if they camped at their own relic rather than the opponents one. Good video of a mag sorc total skill kit that helps them compete in BG very effectively.

We must not have watched the same video. You say "they did play to the objective most of the time." Huh?

What I saw was the Orange Marsorc:

-Defends green's relic from purple for first 3:50 minutes.
-Ignores an easy relic pickup/score at 4:12
-Goes back to defending green from purple at 7:30.
-Defends green from purple again starting again at 8:45
-Lets green score at 9:00, tying the game at 400-400
-Does nothing as green's winning score runs by at 9:39, ending the game.

What I saw was mostly farming purple, which ultimately benefited green to the point of handing them the victory..

olsborg

No

Weesacs wrote: »

The only class I'm feeling is OP at the moment is stamcro

Mhm, stamcro and stamden.


Only thing thats op in bg for magsorcs is the execute wich is a killstealer. Make it procc only of the sorcerors own dmg and make it work abit better, as in faster.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

olsborg wrote: »

Weesacs wrote: »

The only class I'm feeling is OP at the moment is stamcro

Mhm, stamcro and stamden.


Only thing thats op in bg for magsorcs is the execute wich is a killstealer. Make it procc only of the sorcerors own dmg and make it work abit better, as in faster.

Or reduce the range so you can't just sit back and apply to to everyone with little or no personal risk.

Foto1

Yes

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

it always has been

clocksstoppe

Love how you can tell the complainers never even played sorc. They think you can just spam mages fury on random people and boom kills. Do you also thing the force pulse and crystal frags that hit you came out of nowhere?

ZAMOLXIS

Yes

the magsorc instant finisher should be 1,8 sec like for the templars! they use that when crowded and do alot of kills of nowhere!

EmEm_Oh

Stam builds are still dominating BGs. Some sorcs are really good...most...are not. Get your fellow nb to take them out. They have extended reach as well, right?

Oh wait, let's just nerf arrow shooters, too.

OP, if you wanna nerf my magsorc, then take away stun/off balance from 2H stammies.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Stam builds are still dominating BGs.

?

Magplar, magden, and magdk would like to have a word with you.

gammelscroll

Sorcs are broken in BGs. Funny how that it's always the team with most sorcs in it wins.
And why are sorc always jumping when you hit them?
Anyway iam tired of seeing only crystal frag and endelse fury in my deathcap.
They just jump around stacking Shield, you can't hurt them, and suddenly they one shot you within a streak, comet, crystal fury combo.
And this lag in this *** game dosnt do it any better.... when break free dont work and spells dont to off it's superior to be Ranged sorc. It's no risk high reward. Shouldnt be like that

Weesacs

No

I have to agree that magsorcs do feel top tier in BGs atm having played loads of games since the last patch.

I personally think the following two changes would help:

- Give the kill to the person who did the most damage to the opponent rather than the person who got the killing blow. This would reduce thier kill stealing scores without having to change thier execute.

- Add a pet target toggle to the game. This would stop players having to work around targeting thier pets. Lets be honest, most magsorcs use their pets (including engine guardian) for extra mitigation.

I think these changes would help balance BGs more without actually having to touch the class.

Just my two cents.

EmEm_Oh

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Love how you can tell the complainers never even played sorc. They think you can just spam mages fury on random people and boom kills. Do you also thing the force pulse and crystal frags that hit you came out of nowhere?

Pretty much, this. I just got rekt today by 3 stam sorcs, and I'm mag.

The problem is not their group, however. The problem...is...THE GROUP you're running with. Sure, stamsorcs got a lot of power and are rather fast but there are weaknesses to every class.

Using special addons in BGs, that's another topic, but from playing the last week for the first time since I want to get the styles, the issues are with the group coherence:

1) Not knowing what to do (i.e., running around aimlessly in the arena)

2) Don't have their PvP gear on (had a few group members comment on their setup twice so far)

3) Don't know how to PvP in general, and haven't been in Cyro or IC that much

4) Don't realize how fast a situation can change and they need to adapt

I'm ok with new players in a group (hek, I'm one of them pretty much), so there are occasions when a group will get all new players and one other group is experienced. But those situations really should NOT be used as an example to nerf one class or another or one skill or another.

What would also help BGs...is giving bonus points and/or styles to the group who has to run around with only 2 because a few complainers decided to just log. That is seriously uncool, and something should be done about that. Maybe penalize with taking 100K AP or something, but even then, that wouldn't matter too much to many players.

Atherakhia

If it's not MagSorcs, it's MagPlars. If it's not Magplars, it's StamCros. If it's not StamCros, it's StamDens. If it's not StamDens, it's StamBlades.

All I'm trying to say is this is hardly a MagSorc problem and there is SO.MUCH that needs tuning at this point I couldn't even tell you where to start. But taking a sledge hammer to one issue at a time isn't viable. They need a large scale balance patch to really get some of this stuff under control. Playing PvP in ESO at this point is a lesson in futility. And that's just discussing balance. I'd argue that server performance is the larger problem that needs fixing. If it can even be fixed.

Ezorus

Yes

Make an option allowing us to not be able to target pets

Moonsorrow

Thogard wrote: »

Just shorten the range of the execute imo

I`d support this also.

wheem_ESO

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Stam builds are still dominating BGs.

?

Magplar, magden, and magdk would like to have a word with you.

All inferior, at least in most cases, when compared to their Stamina counterparts (or other Stamina classes). That doesn't mean that those 3 classes are garbage, but Stamina builds are clearly dominant right now, and have been for a long time.

One example from a recent death recap caused by a Stamina Templar:
x1 Binding Javelin for 4,327 damage.
x1 Light Attack for 2,827 damage.
x1 Burning Light proc for 2,867 damage.
x3 Biting Jabs for 5,663 damage.
x1 Burning Light proc for 1,680 damage.

That's two button presses/GCDs and 1 left mouse click for 17,364 damage, even though one of the button presses was for a crowd control skill, no ultimate was used, and 1/4 of the Biting Jabs failed to connect. The crowd control ability in question also happened to hit harder than almost all Magicka spammables (only Whip-vs-Vampire, Puncturing Sweeps, or Master Lightning + Shock Clench are comparable), and that's without including the extra damage from a Burning Light proc. If we count that, it becomes either 6,007 or 7,194 damage (depending on which proc went with the Javelin), plus a long duration stun. So pretty much an unblocked meteor with no delay, telegraph, or ultimate cost. #balance

The damage on Dizzying Swing might not be quite as ludicrous as Biting Jabs, but it's close. Plus it's connected to stuns and snares in a way that it absolutely shouldn't be.

MurderMostFoul

Yes

I agree that most stamina variants of classes are superior when it comes to flat out damage and bursts. But their Magicka counterparts in BGs are often better at healing, cross healing, recovering from a burst, providing group utility, and winning fights of attrition. So while Magicka classes might not get as many killing blows in deathmatch, thier end of match damage done and healing done can be a lot higher then stamina classes. In that way, Magicka classes can have a greater impact on the outcome of a match then stamina classes.

Iskiab

Yes

I think melee stam hitting harder than ranged specs makes sense. Otherwise why be melee?

I just don’t like that they’re giving a speed advantage to stam. Seems they’re trying to make stam faster or giving them snares which I don’t like.

Draevik

Yes

When they can shield stack, heal to full and then blow people up in a few seconds I would say yes. I have seen it before many many times. Or they go the super annoying route with 2 pets, and engine guardian and if you are melee you can't get a hit on barely at all. You know how many shield charges have been wasted on their damned pets lol!

Magsprc healers are also insane! Huge group heals self warding so you can't reliably kill them unless a whole team is on them.

Noctus

Yes

sorcs have the best burst capability and on top of that with pets and their class heals and shield stack the best defense. their only downfall is their sustain.

i wouldnt ask for a nerf but rather a buff on the weaker mag classes. Namely magblade atm in the worst spot also magcro seems rare in bg i gottta ask here is magcro rly that bad or just stamcro that good ?

i also suggest pet targeting should change

usmcjdking

No one decent player cares about ward or magsorc burst. You can make a case for starting with ultimate being broken in favor of magsorc which can inflate the power of the OLoad sorc.

The issue in BGs with magsorc is SPECIFICALLY Bolt Escape and the changes to uninterruptible frames on channels.

wheem_ESO

Noctus wrote: »

sorcs have the best burst capability and on top of that with pets and their class heals and shield stack the best defense. their only downfall is their sustain.

i wouldnt ask for a nerf but rather a buff on the weaker mag classes. Namely magblade atm in the worst spot also magcro seems rare in bg i gottta ask here is magcro rly that bad or just stamcro that good ?

i also suggest pet targeting should change

Magicka Sorcerer does not have the best burst capability. Pretty much every Stamina build can achieve the same level of burst, and do so without needing to burn a GCD on a stun with no meaningful damage. Stamina Templar's class based stun can hit as hard or harder than most Magicka damage abilities (and can proc Burning Light for another 1.5 - 3k on top of it), and Dizzy spammers get their stun either on-demand and off-GCD with a "medium" attack, or simply from all the repeated Dizzying Swing button mashing.

I've mentioned numerous recap screenshots on the forums lately, but here's another one:
x1 Dawnbreaker of Smiting for 8,422 damage.
x4 Biting Jabs for 5,868 damage.
x1 Power of the Light for 6,082 damage.
x4 Biting Jabs for 6,009 damage.
x1 Reverse Slice for 5,541 damage (this hit came from a different player).
And this is actually against a character that is not a Vampire, and has something like 22 - 24k physical resistance. It also doesn't take into account the Burning Light procs which are virtually guaranteed to happen at least once over the course of 2x Biting Jabs activations, the DOT portion of the Dawnbreaker, light attack weaves, or procs from an enchant or poisons. With those caveats in mind, that's 26,381 damage in 4 global cooldowns...which is again actually downplaying the Stamplar's damage somewhat, since the PotL is essentially always applied before the fight really begins. And those aren't even the highest Dawnbreaker, PotL, or Biting Jabs numbers I've seen.

What's a Magicka Sorcerer going to do to you in 4 GCDs? Lets assume a best case scenario for the Sorcerer, which means a Crystal Fragments proc on every possible trigger. If they lead off with a Curse, it'll have time to explode once over the course of the 3 following GCDs (and do far less than 6,082 damage in that one explosion). Should they want to drop an unblocked Meteor on you, that'll take up another 2 GCDs - one for the Meteor itself, and one for a Streak which will do negligible damage. That leaves room for a single Crystal Fragments in the 4 GCD window.

Obviously, a Curse + Meteor + Crystal Frag combo adds up to a lot of pain, but not 26,381 damage worth of pain (which, again, doesn't include Burning Light or the Dawnbreaker DOT). Not to mention the fact that it's easier to counter than Dawnbreaker is; using Mist Form or an Immovability Potion + blocking immediately after the telegraph, or counter-CC'ing the Sorcerer are much easier than correctly guessing when to block the Dawnbreaker in a group fight. Especially if you're a Magicka build who can only afford to do a very limited amount of blocking in no-CP.

If we assume that the Sorcerer isn't firing an ultimate, or is using Overload light attacks, we end up with the maximum potential for 1 Curse, 1 spammable, and 2 Crystal Fragments. Again, that's significant damage...but it's not like it's superior to what properly built Stamina players are doing.

Rtzon

Yes

PLEASE no more nerfs. If anything they should buff other classes to be up to par. I can't take any more nerfs to all the classes...

Emma_Overload

No

Ezorus wrote: »

Make an option allowing us to not be able to target pets

Yes, please, make my pets unkillable!

Weesacs

No

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ezorus wrote: »

Make an option allowing us to not be able to target pets

Yes, please, make my pets unkillable!

Why would anyone focus a pet? That would just be suicidal as the sorc would just pick them off.

Adding a pet target toggle would be a step in the right direction without having to touch any class skills.

Urzigurumash

No

As I've said for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if it's impossible to balance MagSorc for Death Match without over-nerfing them for any other content. I suspect the simplest solution is just to decrease the amount of points Kills earn in DM, and increase the amount of points Assists earn.

Weesacs

No

Urzigurumash wrote: »

As I've said for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if it's impossible to balance MagSorc for Death Match without over-nerfing them for any other content. I suspect the simplest solution is just to decrease the amount of points Kills earn in DM, and increase the amount of points Assists earn.

That probably would be a simple solution however personally I think the 'best' solution would be to give the kill to the person who did the most damage to the enemy. This would be fairer IMO without changing the sorc class in any way.