Nightblades have it bad and Cloak is now nearly unusable (Previous Thread Expanded)

Nyladreas

PLEASE REMEMBER TO KEEP THE CONVERSATION CLEAN AND CIVIL, DO NOT TROLL, DO NOT ATTACK OTHER PEOPLE AND DO NOT GET OVERLY NEGATIVELY EXCITED. OTHERWISE WE WILL GET LOCKED AGAIN!

[Snip]

Let's be honest now. Nightblades already were in a seriously crappy state and position, still are, and now their most important, class-defining ability is straight broken into uselessness. I'm, of course, talking about Shadowy Disguise or Cloak.

Not only is Cloak extremely unreliable, even more so now after the patch, but it is now also getting broken from just about anything due to strange position desyncs, ability timing desyncs and pretty much gets ignored by everything and anything from Light Attacks, Heavy Attacks to Single Target abilities, AoEs that aren't even in range, ranged attacks, Pets acting as if stealth didn't exist at all, making them follow and attack you regardless of cloak etc.

It seems that the intended fix from last patch which was supposed to let charge abilities hit us while stealthed (this is fair btw) as long as someone had a detect pot active, messed up the entire core of our skill and now allows to get broken by anything from A to Z. And what's making it even more shameful and mocking is that this even happens in PVE (where combat is 10x more predictable)

This is all already frustrating beyond imaginable as it is, and yet we also desperately need Nighblade buffs!

We need precast/premeditated burst, we need our damage buffs sorted and brought back (even at half strength).

1) Mark needs to become more useful and could be easily reworked into curse-like burst skill with very short duration.
2) Path is lackluster and needs to be tuned up for both morphs, or reverted back pre-neef
3) Focus needs berserk back or at least minor force added back and also needs to hit quicker and more reliably. As of now it's laughingly easy to avoid.
4) Shadow ultimate could be made much stronger OR cheaper, or completely changed right now nobody uses it.
5) We have no useful synergies and drain would be a perfect candidate for a unique group synergy like gesling + weapon/spell increase, this especially for PvE.
5) Healing is below current standards, siphoning strikes feel underwhelming compared to example: crit surge, it needs a healing buff and should provide Brutality/Sorcery Buff.
6) Dark cloak needs some sort of scaling ala soul trap (not just max health), as of now the healing is a joke, especially in PvP.
7) Veiled and its morphs need to ignore more armor. At least 15%-20%, and gain the magicka morph speed as baseline
8) Most other skills need tuning and refining. But that's true with other classes too. Stam sorc especially, since they still don't have a class spammable. Anyways...
9) Teleport Strike needs to have its "jump" animation removed and should act as quick shadowstep (look at Warcraft) and leave the jump to the DW line (Class identity btw!)
10) Also, last but not least... Incap and Siphon need to have their cast times removed (look at Templar ult if you even wanna try to argue)!

Many things can be experimented with, can be changed and can be improved. Where's the holdup?

What are we going to do about this, ZOS? Hopefully not closing this topic.

Original post by @Skullderic

So, every skill getting use is pulling me out of Stealth. Even if someone is light attacking swinging a sword, Its hitting me pulling me out.
Any News about this crap? Fixes, Etc.
I can't be the only one this is happening to, Rite?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514916/nb-cloak-broke/p1

[Edited for discussing moderator action]

Mayrael

Everything in this post is true. Cloak because of delays is broken by any damage. Soul harvest and Incap are both unusable in current state of performance. I was hoping that speeding up teleport abilities animations will include Ambush/Lotus fan, but I guess I was once again wrong. In general shade, cloak and teleport strike because of glitchy animations are total trash with this performance. But yeah, let's pretend problem doesn't exist, devs and team are now playing templars, wardens or necros so if anything expect only further nerfs for NBs.

1mirg

Mayrael wrote: »

yeah, let's pretend problem doesn't exist, devs and team are now playing templars, wardens or necros so if anything expect only further nerfs for NBs.

The main issue seems to be that the developers tend to listen more to those that complain about invisibility being a thing at all. I mean they added so many methods for them to detect invisible targets for them yet it's still not enough for that crowd and It also doesn't help that the only "changes" they give Nightblades are just nerfs.

But whatever, i'm pretty use to this treatment of my class by now.

martinhpb16_ESO

NB is in an absolutely terrible and shoddy place.

Eatmyface

Delete cloak. Delete snipe. Then we might see NB get some love again.

Until then, the class will just be associated with cowardly gameplay and exploits.

brandonv516

Good information in this thread. Terrible news to hear about Shadowy Disguise - hasn't hit consoles yet.

theadriel

My NB is still being useful as my crafter.

Eatmyface

Also, LOL at the whole "pulling me out of snipe"... Ever played on a high ping? The game registers attacks after you cloak - making it null and void anyway.

Rowjoh

Re-spec your old NB into an awesome node farmer and PVP scout !

Simply sling on Jailbreaker and Fiords, transmog jewellery to swift, change race to Orc and slap on the Steed mundus !

WHOOOOSH !

Stebarnz

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

brandonv516

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

Sorry you don't speak for the majority.

Stebarnz

brandonv516 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

Sorry you don't speak for the majority.

I speak for the people who understand this but you are certainly correct that is not the majority as made clear by the wild things people post.

olsborg

Dark Cloak doesnt give minor protection buff anymore, eventho it states that it does.

Give defile back to incap and remove the cast time of Soul Siphon (defencive morph)
Stamblades have the worst selfhealing in the game, pls remedy this in some way

Mr_Walker

Meh. Irritating class anyway, that half the time when they engage and realise they're not going to score an easy win, they cloak and run away, leaving both of us stuck in combat for half an hour.

So not much sympathy TBH. You might like jogging across Cyrodiil. I do not.

Kalante

Nightblade is a meme at this point.

DUTCH_REAPER

When was the last time you were getting ganked in cyrodil by a nightblade and freaked out? Exactly. Buff nightblade!!

Nyladreas

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Meh. Irritating class anyway, that half the time when they engage and realise they're not going to score an easy win, they cloak and run away, leaving both of us stuck in combat for half an hour.

So not much sympathy TBH. You might like jogging across Cyrodiil. I do not.

I'm NOT saying nightblade should win every fight. But we should always have a chance, just as our opponent should. As of now we either have a small chance or NONE at all. And THAT'S frustrating and annoying. That's why so many of us end up just running so often after we hit people. There's nothing else besides cloak that we have and Dark cloak doesn't even give you protection anymore and the healing is honestly a joke in PvP.

It's not even really about easy kills. It's about being unable to stand up to current pvp standards. I'd personally be happy if cloak just became an awesome utility skill rather than key defensive escape button. It's current design is hurting the class more than anything.

Cavedog

LOLZ......the class that can literally turn invisible and has one of the biggest tool boxes in game do not "have it bad"

Mayrael

Cavedog wrote: »

LOLZ......the class that can literally turn invisible and has one of the biggest tool boxes in game do not "have it bad"

Lol the class who's literally one of 2 defences can be completely turned off by enemy. It's like having skill or potions to disable completely healing on Templar, or shields on sorc. The only class that has to play mini game to use it's burst ability, the most nerfed class because of newbs who don't know how to deal with easiest defensive skill to counter.

SosRuvaak

the *** server performance makes enough problems for cloak

Tommy_The_Gun

Kalante wrote: »

Nightblade is a meme at this point.

It is no longer a Nightblade, but more like a Nerfblade...

Moonsorrow

olsborg wrote: »

Dark Cloak doesnt give minor protection buff anymore, eventho it states that it does.

Give defile back to incap and remove the cast time of Soul Siphon (defencive morph)
Stamblades have the worst selfhealing in the game, pls remedy this in some way

I FULLY support this, especially the part about Soul Siphon. And since Stamcro has defile on a regular skill that also hits like a truck... there is no reason why StamNB also could not have it on an ULTIMATE skill.

PS. My Magblade been sad lately, not like all the good opponents stop me from Cloaking before anyways, now pretty much everything that is not intended (to my knowledge) to do so also makes Cloak almost useless. Since people can just use pretty much anything at the general direction of the NB and you are out of Cloak.

Sad times.

Kittytravel

I would like to see Relentless granted a buff and in OPs case Minor Force seems a better idea than Minor Berserk. Since Minor Force isn't stacked as heavily in PvP due to crit resist it won't have as heavy an impact on that meta VS Minor Berserk but in PvE it would grant build freedom from the removal of Trap Beasts current necessity in pretty much every stam build. At least then we'd have one stam class that didn't require the use of that skill on their bar and could explore other options.

Reapers Mark can be reworked into an ability that increases the damage you deal to the mark target. A single target heavily telegraphed burst amplifier with Fracture/Breach. In PvE it might contend with other options depending on the % increase but I'd wager not; it's pretty easy to see when someone gets marked so it's kind of a clear indicator you need to block/roll dodge and prep for incoming.

But yeah it's pretty sad seeing how weak Nightblades have gotten with no love given to any aspect of their gameplay, from Healing, to DPS, to Tank. I'm sure they are played quite often by newer players since most like the rogue-type toons but that's not the best of reasons to keep them in the dirt.

Mayrael

Mayrael wrote: »

Cavedog wrote: »

LOLZ......the class that can literally turn invisible and has one of the biggest tool boxes in game do not "have it bad"

Lol the class who's literally one of 2 defences can be completely turned off by enemy. It's like having skill or potions to disable completely healing on Templar, or shields on sorc. The only class that has to play mini game to use it's burst ability, the most nerfed class because of newbs who don't know how to deal with easiest defensive skill to counter.

Oh and in addition to all of above, it's THE ONLY CLASS with cast time on ultimates. You know how it feels to use ultimate with cast time with performance we currently have? It doesn't feel at all because it's impossible to land it. So In general we have not working defence, not working attack.

Ok so I have a challenge for anyone claiming NBs are OP, my magplar vs your Stam/Magblade, you can use whatever you want except of LoS for obvious reasons. PC EU.
I'm supporting my words with actions, prove me I'm wrong, you have exceptional occasion.

Thedragonlolitucker

Eatmyface wrote: »

Delete cloak. Delete snipe. Then we might see NB get some love again.

Until then, the class will just be associated with cowardly gameplay and exploits.

not every nb is a sniper or tries to gank u and runs away when it doesnt work lol

Deathlord92

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

Deathlord92

Nyladreas wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Meh. Irritating class anyway, that half the time when they engage and realise they're not going to score an easy win, they cloak and run away, leaving both of us stuck in combat for half an hour.

So not much sympathy TBH. You might like jogging across Cyrodiil. I do not.

I'm NOT saying nightblade should win every fight. But we should always have a chance, just as our opponent should. As of now we either have a small chance or NONE at all. And THAT'S frustrating and annoying. That's why so many of us end up just running so often after we hit people. There's nothing else besides cloak that we have and Dark cloak doesn't even give you protection anymore and the healing is honestly a joke in PvP.

It's not even really about easy kills. It's about being unable to stand up to current pvp standards. I'd personally be happy if cloak just became an awesome utility skill rather than key defensive escape button. It's current design is hurting the class more than anything.

As I have said previously nothing wrong with buffing dark cloak healing or giving it back its purge because right now it’s very underwhelming and noobs will always cry wether they want to admit it or not shadow disguise is here to stay it’s part of this game and nb class and is also due a buff should give snare removal or movement speed it’s an escape skill after all.

Mr_Walker

Nyladreas wrote: »

That's why so many of us end up just running so often after we hit people.

When you do that, we're both stuck in combat. The worst part is the idiots who do this, cloak off, I get bored of looking, try and jog off, maybe hopefully get out of combat again, and they engage again. Rinse and repeat. A lot don't even seem to be using it as a tool to survive and win fights any more, just to be pests. It's just sheer stupidity.

Sorry, but my sympathy has evaporated. Also sick of stam sorcs who streak through you then just vanish off into the distance. If you're going to engage, fight. If you don't actually want to fight, do us both a favour and don't hit people.

If you really want to be a pest go to the crafting stations at Summerset and blast music.

Kombinator

I love the part when i can run through the entire public dungeon without pulling a single enemy with cloak. Something you can't do with any of the other classes.

I think, that cloak needs a bit rework. It shouldn't be an "escape from prison" card. Instead it should be for moving around, and engage.

My idea: default cloak: lasts 30 seconds, no other change.
morph1: your next sneak attack damage deals 100% more damage. Works only once on same target until it leaves combat.
morph2: unchanged.

Tommy_The_Gun

Kombinator wrote: »

I love the part when i can run through the entire public dungeon without pulling a single enemy with cloak. Something you can't do with any of the other classes.

Invisibility potions...

Coppes

Kombinator wrote: »

I love the part when i can run through the entire public dungeon without pulling a single enemy with cloak. Something you can't do with any of the other classes.

I think, that cloak needs a bit rework. It shouldn't be an "escape from prison" card. Instead it should be for moving around, and engage.

My idea: default cloak: lasts 30 seconds, no other change.
morph1: your next sneak attack damage deals 100% more damage. Works only once on same target until it leaves combat.
morph2: unchanged.

You can do that with normal sneak, while using invisibility potions when needed (30 second cooldown).