Nightblades have it bad and Cloak is now nearly unusable (Previous Thread Expanded)

ArchMikem

Eatmyface wrote: »

Delete cloak. Delete snipe. Then we might see NB get some love again.

Until then, the class will just be associated with cowardly gameplay and exploits.

I've seen tanky brawler StamDKs and StamPlars spam snipe on their backbar bows and hit hard, the only way Focused Aim/Lethal Arrow is "cowardly" is because it can be desynced so easily. People almost always complain about it because they're just going along and suddenly notice their resource bars drain to zero, then drop to the ground, THEN hear three separate casts hit all at once.

Sanguinor2

Stebarnz wrote: »

So obviously you want the ONLY class you play to be better no matter what, where as im saying for the good of the class and game over all, if you need cloak to be effective thats cool you gonna have to bite the bullet as it gets less and less effective because as long as cloak is there it wont get balanced correctly as its too powerful on stam blade while initiating combat, thats the balancing act they have to play.

Mag nb is in a bad place and you have to scarifice a lot to get anywhere near good enough to compete. Stam close but not as bad.

Ive not met a magblade i cant kill but i have been ripped by a couple of really good stam blades.

I dont feel that magdk became better since they took away the reflect. Yeah it is annoying to Play against cloak when the nightblade knows what they are doing, imo Eso doesnt Need more iconic abilities getting wrecked tho.

Stebarnz

thankyourat wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Cloak is just as strong as other defensive abilities so it makes little sense to punish the class offensively for it. Most classes have strong defensive abilities and strong offensive abilities I don’t see why nightblade needs to be different. What would you consider competitive PvP? I’ve always played magblade and have been basically playing solo for 5 years and I always slot cloak (when it works).

That is the comment of someone who doesnt understand.

Cloak has been used to troll for years and its powerful when initiating combat to get a one shot, zos dont want one shot hence nb is broke as a class, follow the logic.

Its purely pvp as in pve nobody ever uses it.

Stebarnz

brandonv516 wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Putting aside all the noise from the trolls here, if the skill is broken we need it to be addressed by someone.

I didn't see anything in the notes other than how gap closers interact with Cloak, so it seems like it is likely a bug.

Invisibility is a integral part of this game and that playstyle is kind of a deal breaker for some people.

What makes some people think it needs to magically go away or be turned into a roleplay tool at this stage in the game is beyond me.

When do YOU use cloak? Give me specific content and situation.

In pvp i use it to engage or disengage for positioning ect and also to guarantee a crit.

Why?

He asked the question because he believes invisibility cannot be used in competitive PvP content.

He is wrong though.

Obviously I agree that it is useless in endgame PvE content.

Im saying it is more of a disadvantage now if you rely on cloak without shade as it dont work so therefore it is not used by many.

Im also saying the class doesnt work BECAUSE of cloak, the ability to disengage or engage at choice with a crit is too strong if the class gets a buff thats why it wont.

Its just logic, so i would rather get a working class with invis replaced for something else roguey to keep the class identity, thats all.

People keep holding onto this invis thing i dont get it, never met a magblade i cant kill who cloaks.

Sanguinor2

Stebarnz wrote: »

That is the comment of someone who doesnt understand.

Cloak has been used to troll for years and its powerful when initiating combat to get a one shot, zos dont want one shot hence nb is broke as a class, follow the logic.

Its purely pvp as in pve nobody ever uses it.

Actually a lot of nerfs that hurt nightblade PvP happened when Zos tried (and succeeded) in Breaking nightblade dominance in PvE Trials as dd and with the "standartization" process.

PieMaster1

Stebarnz wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Cloak is just as strong as other defensive abilities so it makes little sense to punish the class offensively for it. Most classes have strong defensive abilities and strong offensive abilities I don’t see why nightblade needs to be different. What would you consider competitive PvP? I’ve always played magblade and have been basically playing solo for 5 years and I always slot cloak (when it works).

That is the comment of someone who doesnt understand.

Cloak has been used to troll for years and its powerful when initiating combat to get a one shot, zos dont want one shot hence nb is broke as a class, follow the logic.

Its purely pvp as in pve nobody ever uses it.

I use cloak all the time in PVE..there’s many instances where i do not want to fight through hordes of enemies (Vile Manse) just going to the objective and leaving. Or accidentally running into mobs in open world but too lazy to fight every single time you stop.

Stebarnz

Im agreeing with everyone who wants nb to work and get sorted, i want this also.

The reason as ive said that they struggle to balance it is cloak in pvp and because it dominated for so long in top tier pvp.

I dont use cloak in pve as its not needed ever, and dont use it in pvp as i feel you have to sacrifice so much to make it work, you have to build speed and use shade and be squishy with everything about timing and the amount of lag and skill and ult delay its too frustrating for me to such a build.

I understand to get the class balanced in pvp they have to change invis to something inline with the class but not something that can be used so effectively.

Stebarnz

CreamedPieYum wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Cloak is just as strong as other defensive abilities so it makes little sense to punish the class offensively for it. Most classes have strong defensive abilities and strong offensive abilities I don’t see why nightblade needs to be different. What would you consider competitive PvP? I’ve always played magblade and have been basically playing solo for 5 years and I always slot cloak (when it works).

That is the comment of someone who doesnt understand.

Cloak has been used to troll for years and its powerful when initiating combat to get a one shot, zos dont want one shot hence nb is broke as a class, follow the logic.

Its purely pvp as in pve nobody ever uses it.

I use cloak all the time in PVE..there’s many instances where i do not want to fight through hordes of enemies (Vile Manse) just going to the objective and leaving. Or accidentally running into mobs in open world but too lazy to fight every single time you stop.

I mean proper pve not overland that doesnt matter, it could be made in a memento for every class if thats what you use it for.

pokrakus

thankyourat wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Cloak is just as strong as other defensive abilities so it makes little sense to punish the class offensively for it. Most classes have strong defensive abilities and strong offensive abilities I don’t see why nightblade needs to be different. What would you consider competitive PvP? I’ve always played magblade and have been basically playing solo for 5 years and I always slot cloak (when it works).

Defensive abilities don't give 100% crit chance, and chance to stun...

dazee

Cloak is never going away. That one skill IS NB class identity, for both stam and mag. ZOS knows this, if they were dumb enough to listen to the whiners cloak would have vanished long ago.

L2P and slot magelight or one of the myriad counters for stealth.

dazee

Defensive abilities don't give 100% crit chance, and chance to stun...

And other defensive abilities are actually defensive. Cloak right now barely functions as a defense, and even if it still did theres a ton of ways to counter it.

If bow snipes from cloak are a problem just make the auto crit portion of the ability melee only.

Kelces

It's not enough to use cloak, many ignore the element of surprise. If someone knows where you (probably) are, it's already over most of the time when you are up against someone with experience. This quickly remids me of my grudge against mutagen-spam on me when crouched.

I would agree though, that incap was changed in a bad way, I feel bad sometimes seemingly being able to dodge it with even more ease than before. On the other hand there are still people dying easily to some who seem to be able to adapt after all those nerfs/adjustments.

As far as siphon goes, same thing - quite a bunch still dying at repairs and flags, others know to throw caltrops and other abilities. So in conclusion I would say, it's a challenge and a fun one too if you are up to such a thing. I mean, which class is best fit to burn enemy seiges, or other similar things and get away with it most easily? Still the best choice to me at least.

brandonv516

Stebarnz wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Putting aside all the noise from the trolls here, if the skill is broken we need it to be addressed by someone.

I didn't see anything in the notes other than how gap closers interact with Cloak, so it seems like it is likely a bug.

Invisibility is a integral part of this game and that playstyle is kind of a deal breaker for some people.

What makes some people think it needs to magically go away or be turned into a roleplay tool at this stage in the game is beyond me.

When do YOU use cloak? Give me specific content and situation.

I use Shadowy Disguise regularly in high MMR BGs as both a healer Magblade and a damage Magblade on Xbox NA.

Not trying to be egotistical, but I have yet to meet a Magblade using Dark Cloak that has performed better than me.

But all I play is Magblade and all I do is BGs, so there's a reason I find success with Shadowy Disguise where others don't.

So obviously you want the ONLY class you play to be better no matter what, where as im saying for the good of the class and game over all, if you need cloak to be effective thats cool you gonna have to bite the bullet as it gets less and less effective because as long as cloak is there it wont get balanced correctly as its too powerful on stam blade while initiating combat, thats the balancing act they have to play.

Mag nb is in a bad place and you have to scarifice a lot to get anywhere near good enough to compete. Stam close but not as bad.

Ive not met a magblade i cant kill but i have been ripped by a couple of really good stam blades.

I think you are being a bit presumptuous. I want the skill to function correctly in it's current form - right now it sounds like it's bugged so to me that it is unsatisfactory. I don't expect the class to be in the top tier every patch.

I've been here since the game started on Xbox (started out a Stamblade). I still remember when Dark Cloak had a purge mechanism. I'm fairly certain I have already "bitten the bullet" as I've seen every iteration of the skill while it has declined.

Deathlord92

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Well sorry if you haven’t been paying much attention recently but between lag and the horrible unbalance in eso tell me where the competitive part at lol sure there’s stormhaven alikr for 1v1s but that’s it. I don’t know what going on with class balance or someone at zos just hates nb but I’m damn sure reason why nb in such a diabolical state is because it was over nerf not because of cloak any good nb will tell you that and that it needs a buff.

stimpy986b14_ESO

I used to be Nightblade main.

Iskiab

I think an easy solution would be to nerf the auto-crit and spell/weapon damage buff from shadowy disguise.

Most people will think ‘another nerf!’ but really if the class has been hit hard because of the advantage attacking from stealth gives, nerf the advantage and add the needed buffs.

Besides, the advantage is mostly an on paper advantage. I usually light attack weave accidentally and a buffed light attack isn’t doing much anyways.

dazee

Iskiab wrote: »

I think an easy solution would be to nerf the auto-crit and spell/weapon damage buff from shadowy disguise.

Most people will think ‘another nerf!’ but really if the class has been hit hard because of the advantage attacking from stealth gives, nerf the advantage and add the needed buffs.

Besides, the advantage is mostly an on paper advantage. I usually light attack weave accidentally and a buffed light attack isn’t doing much anyways.

The only nerf it needs is to make it only work with melee attacks. That addresses the only real issue with it. Snipes.

Deathlord92

Really want purge back on dark cloak you know buffing dark cloak will also make a lot of players want to use it over shadow disguise to i enjoy using dark cloak now but imagine if they gave it the needed buffs 🙂

thankyourat

Stebarnz wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Keep cloak as a memento for the rp'ers and balance the class properly!

Its not used in top tier pve and its not used in top tier pvp so get rid and get the class something that is still roguey but not invis and bring the class inline.

Everyone still wanting cloak and class to be higher damage, it wont happen while invis is there! FACT!

Yes i play both magnb and stamnb and no i dont use cloak

As I said in a previous post getting rid of shadow disguise will destroy class identity and will ruin the game for lots of players and you do not speak for everyone because I also play stamblade with dark cloak and I do very well and getting rid of shadow disguise will completely destroy the identity of the class we won’t be a nb or rogue anymore.

I said i dont speak for everyone only those who understand how the game works 2 posts further down pal.

Also read my post i said give it something else rougey, rougesk, rouguly, whatever, im not saying kill the class, i play it too, im saying give it something else other than invis which isnt used competitively anyway only in rp so it can be a memento.

If you keep invis you keep a weak class dont you see this? like talking to a wall man.

Cloak is just as strong as other defensive abilities so it makes little sense to punish the class offensively for it. Most classes have strong defensive abilities and strong offensive abilities I don’t see why nightblade needs to be different. What would you consider competitive PvP? I’ve always played magblade and have been basically playing solo for 5 years and I always slot cloak (when it works).

That is the comment of someone who doesnt understand.

Cloak has been used to troll for years and its powerful when initiating combat to get a one shot, zos dont want one shot hence nb is broke as a class, follow the logic.

Its purely pvp as in pve nobody ever uses it.

Cloak is really trolly I agree. But so it’s BoL spam which is actually stronger than cloak spam by a large margin because not only can you not kill the magplar you can’t kill anyone who is near them either. All classes have strong defensive abilities while still maintaining high offensive capabilities. Majority of classes actually have more burst damage than Nightblades while maintaining superior defensive capabilities. The ability to one shot from stealth hasn’t been a consistent thing since the proc set meta like 3 years ago

thankyourat

Iskiab wrote: »

I think an easy solution would be to nerf the auto-crit and spell/weapon damage buff from shadowy disguise.

Most people will think ‘another nerf!’ but really if the class has been hit hard because of the advantage attacking from stealth gives, nerf the advantage and add the needed buffs.

Besides, the advantage is mostly an on paper advantage. I usually light attack weave accidentally and a buffed light attack isn’t doing much anyways.

There isn’t any real advantage from attacking from stealth anymore. Healing is so strong that even if you have a successful attack from stealth and get someone to 30% health they will be back to full in about 2 seconds. Back when everyone in cyrodiil had 20k health and weren’t in full impen attacking from stealth was very strong. Now that every one has over 26k health and 3k crit resist it’s almost impossible to gank someone. Even if Nightblades still had all the damage buffs it would still be really difficult to pull off.

Heresyall

Put Major sorcery and major brutality on siphoning attack / leeching strike ...

dazee

yeah NB should get zero more nerfs until it gets buffs. it's been nerfed enough.

Sanguinor2

Heresyall wrote: »

Put Major sorcery and major berserk on siphoning attack / leeching strike ...

Please tell me you meant brutality and not berserk. Also yes, all classes should have good ways to get Major sorcery/brutality from class abilities.

Heresyall

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Put Major sorcery and major berserk on siphoning attack / leeching strike ...

Please tell me you meant brutality and not berserk. Also yes, all classes should have good ways to get Major sorcery/brutality from class abilities.

Lmao yes

ApostateHobo

Nightblade really is in such a bad spot right now in both pvp and pve, especially magblade. Desperately needs some buffs instead of the constant nonsensical nerfs.

Stebarnz

Im done, some people just dont understand that what effects one thing also effects others and cant see past there own little bubble.

Im just wanting a way that makes nb worth playing again that doesnt break stuff and from what i can see the invis is just part of the problem, it could be a different mech, something cool but just so it lets the class have identity, be fun to play, be effective to play and actually work.

I hope everyone gets what they are after.

Peace.

Nyladreas

Heresyall wrote: »

Put Major sorcery and major brutality on siphoning attack / leeching strike ...

Yes! Been saying this too. I added it on the list as well.

SidraWillowsky

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

I love the part when i can run through the entire public dungeon without pulling a single enemy with cloak. Something you can't do with any of the other classes.

Invisibility potions...

45sec. cd. Your turn!

Oh yes you can turn down to 30 with alchemy. Still in public dungeons you need 90% of the time.

You sound like you would want to have it for free on every class....

Edit:
Can NB have free streak too ?

Yeah, plus I see sorcs doing this cool new thing where they can pretty much perma-streak. Which they use to get ahead of me when I'm farming. Not obnoxious whatsoever...

My stamblade is a crafter who sometimes goes out to do surveys. I regularly get interrupted when trying to cast Incapacitating Strike by mobs. It hits maybe 30% of the time, but if an enemy even looks at me funny while I try to hit them with Incap, I'm interrupted. Again, by OVERLAND MOBS. That's absurd. If any class SHOULDN'T have an ulti with a cast time, it should be the stealth class. Because it defeats the purpose of being stealthy when what are supposed to be our hardest-hitting skills now basically involve us yelling to an enemy that we're about to cast it.

Kombinator

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

I love the part when i can run through the entire public dungeon without pulling a single enemy with cloak. Something you can't do with any of the other classes.

Invisibility potions...

45sec. cd. Your turn!

Oh yes you can turn down to 30 with alchemy. Still in public dungeons you need 90% of the time.

You sound like you would want to have it for free on every class....

Edit:
Can NB have free streak too ?

I would. Though i wouldn't just copy paste it. I had an illusion skill tree idea on another thread which's ultimate would be a 60 second invisibility, that doesn't end unless you do something, that affects others, than yourself. Meaning that you could open doors, use levers, buff yourself, and move around.

Since it would be an ULTIMATE you couldn't spam it around, and you couldn't escape with it untless the fight is really long, and you would sacrifice your ultimate by using it.

Morph1: grants invisibility to all allies in aura.
Morph2: lowers time to 10 seconds, and costs drastically.

The first morph would about letting your entire group to sneak around. For example skipping stuff in dungeons.

Second morph would about getting closer to the NB cloak, but it would be still an ultimate which is not something you can just get by waiting.

Kombinator

Nyladreas wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Putting aside all the noise from the trolls here, if the skill is broken we need it to be addressed by someone.

I didn't see anything in the notes other than how gap closers interact with Cloak, so it seems like it is likely a bug.

Invisibility is a integral part of this game and that playstyle is kind of a deal breaker for some people.

What makes some people think it needs to magically go away or be turned into a roleplay tool at this stage in the game is beyond me.

When do YOU use cloak? Give me specific content and situation.

I use Shadowy Disguise regularly in high MMR BGs as both a healer Magblade and a damage Magblade on Xbox NA.

Not trying to be egotistical, but I have yet to meet a Magblade using Dark Cloak that has performed better than me.

But all I play is Magblade and all I do is BGs, so there's a reason I find success with Shadowy Disguise where others don't.

So obviously you want the ONLY class you play to be better no matter what, where as im saying for the good of the class and game over all, if you need cloak to be effective thats cool you gonna have to bite the bullet as it gets less and less effective.

It's extremely stupid though. Why should anyone ruin a valid playstyle and make it weak or subpar. It doesn't have to be like that at all, but someone at ZOS actually needs to get off their social media and DO SOMETHING.

Sneaking is always an issue on the balance table. If NB is weak, then yeah buff it, but not by making the cloak super powerful cannot be killed, caught, or otherwise get to him skill.

For an extreme example:
They increase the execute skill's life ratio to 20000%, and the proc life to 50%. With this change NB would be a overpowered like hell, and you didn't change the cloak at all.