GREYMOOR DESYNCS!

technohic

Sitja wrote: »

New raid, adds and bosses turning around. Mechanics and spells like blastbones delayed by server lags.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBT4atbJTN4

I might even watch this stream team run today. Wonder how well it will work for them

Icarus42

Cyrodiil PC NA is still completely broken skills not firing desync and sudden death due to delayed damage registering all at once. IT ACTUALLY FEELS WORSE! We only had 2 bars population.. and wasnt just a few people having this issue it was everyone! I am posting this as much as possible for all the people who were waiting with baited breath hoping that they finally fixed the desync problem... WELL THEY DID NOT FIX IT!

Emphatic_Static

My concern is that many of the upper management may actually believe they have fixed them. If you look at the interview with Lambert, you will see that he believes they "fixed most of those with update 25."

They still don't understand that DESYNC is not LAG.

They probably are sitting around thinking we are referring to the lag that has been here for 6 years, which we are not.

I'm not convinced they understand and have put a team on this SEPARATE issue.

It has never existed in the game prior to update 25, not behaving how this is. Lag, delays, sure. Positional and distance check desyncs on a regular and replicatable basis is new.

Hell, I still can't even access Greymoor even tho I spent over 40 bux on it.

I can't even distract myself from the abysmal performance with mobile app indiana jones simulator.

I just have to sit. And desync.

Olupajmibanan

Emphatic_Static wrote: »

My concern is that many of the upper management may actually believe they have fixed them. If you look at the interview with Lambert, you will see that he believes they "fixed most of those with update 25."

They still don't understand that DESYNC is not LAG.

They probably are sitting around thinking we are referring to the lag that has been here for 6 years, which we are not.

I'm not convinced they understand and have put a team on this SEPARATE issue.

It has never existed in the game prior to update 25, not behaving how this is. Lag, delays, sure. Positional and distance check desyncs on a regular and replicatable basis is new.

Hell, I still can't even access Greymoor even tho I spent over 40 bux on it.

I can't even distract myself from the abysmal performance with mobile app indiana jones simulator.

I just have to sit. And desync.

Just film for them spinning ballerinas in trial. Some of these are true gold watching it And I really want to see what kind of lag will they call it now.

technohic

I think they made progress in ability delay, but the desync still happens. I am encouraged but hope they don't stop now. They are slightly better than update 25 yet still worse than prior.

Vaoh

Good luck on console

Mrs_Malaka

I have played ESO since launch. I have never before witnessed, myself, such a game-breaking occurrence as this character physical position desynchronization, in relation to where my group members are standing.

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Rukia541

Emphatic_Static wrote: »

The issue isn't that devs don't care about these dysyncs. It's just that resources will never be allowed to be utilized in such a way that server stability gets the attention it deserves. Not necessarily that the devs don't care, but that they aren't ALLOWED to care.

Deadlines and promises to shareholders take precedent. It is what it is. But this time the entire game is critically fundamentally broken and has been for months and virtually NO progress - at least from our perspective - has been made to alleviate the issue. I can't speak on the efforts made, but there haven't been results, at all, for months.

Something changed with how the server checks and communicates with the client. If it was an intentional decision, it should have been immediately reverted. If it was an unintentional decision to change how that communication is handled, then I still feel like it should have been immediately reverted, but that is just my opinion.

I'm pulling 20k less dps this patch just because I can't hold a rotation for more than 15 seconds before something will not fire for about 4 seconds and then unload all at once, taking my resources, but not landing any damage on target. And that's on a dummy in my house, in actual content it's abysmal.

It's pretty unacceptable, and I know many many players are using this chapter as the last chance to win them back. If performance doesn't change by 1 patch after initial release, entire end game progression guilds are leaving the game.

One would think that would be a big deal, but I know profits are the only thing that matters, the game needs to make money to exist. If the revenue from new players outweighs end game player retention revenue, which it always will, then it serves the dev team to cater to where the money is coming from, the new players.

Fortunately for that business model, low skilled players generally notice next to no server performance issues as they typically pull 10k or less dps anyways, so they can technically leave their game broken and unplayable from end game community standards and still profit, therefore not prioritizing it.

This may be tin foil hat static talking, but theres probably some truth is there, which is unfortunate.

I hope, for the longevity of this game, that the dysync fixes that go live with greymoor are successful. If they aren't, it could be catastrophic for the reputation of this beloved title.

I agree completely. If something could have been done for all this games technical issues, it would have happened a long time ago. The suits are the ones making decisions, same as any other game nowadays. Sucks but it is what it is, when this effects the casual questers, they'll do something about it. Pvp? It doesn't even exist to the dev team lul. Raiders? Small percentile of players, who gives a crap. $$$$$$$

Emphatic_Static

I haven't been able to play much, very busy irl.

That being said, things FEEL a bit better - took a week for the servers to stabilize which is abysmal, but not unexpected for ZOS's first remote launch - but other than that, the desyncs are LESS.

They are not gone, but skills loading up and hitching on server checks is reduced, and positional desyncs aren't AS bad.

I agree, they are better than update 25, but they are still worse than before update 25. They used to be super rare and would occur because you caught a ping spike. The desyncs happen with rock solid ping, as the client is struggling to hear back from the server for skills to get the ok to fire.

I believe checks that previously were handled by the client are now handled by the server, and in return you have more chance for desyncs between the two.

I also believe that a lot of these changes had to happen in preparation for the Stadia release. I think a bunch of under the hood stuff had to change to be able to be compatible with that platform.

All I can say is if Google throws a huge blast of bandwidth at this game and the client to Stadia server communication is snappier as a result, I'm heading over to see if Cyrodiil performance can actually be handled.

I like to dream. It's possible that it may be more stable than what we have now. I know I'll be interested in finding out!

At least things are playable now. It should NOT have taken going on 4 months to be competitively playable. You could barely loot things let alone viably progress through HM trials or basically do anything in Cyrodiil on the main campaign.

A step in the right direction.

thegreat_one

If I were to say things were not better, I'd be lying.
they did a series of maintenance and I hope they are on to something.

Atleast they moved the PVP lag to PVE.

Djiku

When I was in Cyrodiil last week nothing had changed at all. It wasn't even poplocked and it was just as bad as before U26. I even had problems in trivial overland fights after that.
I don't believe they fixed anything and I would really like to know what they are planning going forward.

Olupajmibanan

This is discussion dedicated specificaly to desyncs (like spinning enemies, non-aligned telegraphs, badly registered player position and so on) in dungeons and trials. We are not discussing here the input delay (skills not firing or firing with delays) which is entirely different issue.

My observations are as follows:
I've been to vKA at wednessday, thursday and sunday. Both wednessday and thursday were absolutely fine, enemies run directly towards us without spinning. Sunday was worse and we were noticing enemies spinning a little but was manageable.

vDSA is a whole different story. Went there at prime time EU and enemies couldn't move, they spinned in place. However, went there again at late night and it was without desyncs.

I heard that sunspire is still desynced and Dragons roar like entire time, but wasn't there to see it myself.

technohic

^ The desync gets confused with input "delay" just by abilities not wanting to work due to you not being in the position server-side that they require. It gets hard to keep them separated.

Cavy25

Tried Cyrodiil again last night. Still crazy amounts of desyncs going on. Better than right after patch, but still worse pre-patch, and significantly worse pre-update 25.

Every population was 2 bars and I was at a back keep far away from the zerging.

Rowjoh

Cyrodiil is still an unholy mess.

And why hasn't the Hammer been withdrawn given the lag and dysync issues it singularly causes on top of the already existing unacceptable levels of poor performance ?

This could easily have been actioned at any point to help at least a little.

precambria

HI, can't use break free and getting you can't do that while dead messages at full health, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IN 2020 HOW CAN CODE BE THIS BAD

LuxLunae

Try turning on VSync

technohic

LuxLunae wrote: »

Try turning on VSync

VSync is a graphic sync between your monitor and your graphics card. Really has nothing to do with this.

technohic

When servers are pop locked, ots not much better than before. 3 weeks until the next maintenance. should be lovely.

Emphatic_Static

technohic wrote: »

^ The desync gets confused with input "delay" just by abilities not wanting to work due to you not being in the position server-side that they require. It gets hard to keep them separated.

Exactly this. Desyncs and skill delay are connected due to server to client positional checks that are desynced causing the delays.

Positional desyncs are still everywhere, in a form that was not here previous to update 25. Something was changed fundamentally in that update with how the server and client interact with each other.

We aren't talking about lag/ping spikes. That is separate. Skills do not function like they used to. There was a major overhaul to the communication between client and server for distance checks and the confirmations to allow skills to fire. These checks are getting stuck between the client and server on a consistent and replicatable basis, resulting in skill delay.

There are also extreme player positional desyncs that are causing these checks to fail on targets that appear to be in range. This is happening in every aspect of the game.

When trying to engage a target in pvp right in front of you 5 times in a row and the skill won't fire, then all at once the checks come back from the server and 5 attacks will hit at once. This is on all skills that require a positional check, including aoe abilities that the server can't seem to get the check back for 4 or 5 casts, and then they all go, consuming 5 aoe casts worth of resources. This creates an unplayable situation on any kind of competitive level.

This occurs in content with enemy aoe damage. Stationary aoe damage is not avoidable because on your client side you are waaaay out of range of it, but on the server side you are standing in it. This happens for all types of damage, often times 1 shot mechanics that wipe the entire group who all are in the safe spot on the client side and should not have taken any damage. This makes end game hard mode trial progression unplayable.

While trying to gather a resource node, loot from a body, turn in quests, interact with a door, even the dang dig sites for antiquities, you often will be met with the message "Target out of range". The server does not know where you are. This is unplayable.

This is not lag.

This is update 25 in all its glory. They removed tons of spaghetti code and lightened up the games footprint, but in doing so they most certainly have changed something with client to server positional checks that affects every single thing you do in this game.

I will close this thread when these desyncs are addressed. I believe this thread will always be here. This may be the new normal, and we will have to choose to avoid all competitive aspects of the game and stay, or leave, because there is no option to do end game content while these issues persist.

Paying customers should not be forced to accept a product that does not function as advertised.

I hope things are addressed, but I feel like zos will be ignoring these cries from the end game community, there are too many new players to cater to for it to be financially feasible to focus on server stability.

Fingers crossed.

Djiku

It's gotten a bit better for me on PC EU. I was in Cyro on Wednesday EU prime time. Skills were firing mostly and lag was ok. Maybe I just got lucky. There is still a lot to be done and from what I read on the forums, it seems to be getting worse on NA. The game will never be anywhere close to being played smoothly but I just hope they someday get it to the point where I can tolerate some bugs and be ok with the rest of the game.

Thechuckage

During a DSA run (swamp arena) had a distance desync. Paired bosses, one melee one ranged. It looked like they were stacked together but the ranged boss was not getting damaged. The real clincher was when boss dropped a totem about 15 feet away from where she appeared to be. The green healing totems that always drop right next to the caster.

When the boss completed movement mechanics (streak or something similar) it re-synced.

Ping was sub 100 the whole fight. I'm in full agreement with Emphatic, this is not to standard and furthermore, will accelerate natural player turnover.

redgreensunset

Last night was absolutely *** awful on PC/EU. Did two trials and WGT on vet with some guildies, all runs had different people in them, many with high end gaming rigs so it's not a hardware issue, but all saw massive fps drop drops and skills not firing due to, well who the hell knows any more as per tptb everything is running fine.

Letho2469

I am just coming out of vSS at prime time and it felt like it did pre update 25. Issues fixed for me.

Greymoore ordered, sub renewed.

gatekeeper13

Was farming Caluurion's set and got kicked from server the moment I approached the last boss.

Fantastic performance improvement in servers after Greymoor update...

Icarus42

...sigh...

Emphatic_Static

Letho2469 wrote: »

I am just coming out of vSS at prime time and it felt like it did pre update 25. Issues fixed for me.

Greymoore ordered, sub renewed.

Yeah it runs great in spurts. You get lucky sometimes.

But by no means are these issues resolved. They are still just as widespread and game breaking as the day update 25 dropped.

Still zero communication from zos. Please acknowledge that there are still extreme skill delays and unavoidable mechanics due to positional desyncs. This isn't theory, it continues to happen every single day. This isn't lag. This is desync. They are not the same thing.

At least put forth a copy paste that you are aware and are looking into it. Server stability is extremely volatile right now. Any updates at all regarding performance? Anything?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Rataroto

Emphatic_Static wrote: »

Alright, we all know that skills aren't firing, input delay is abysmal, and block canceling is completely unreliable and wonky. But i have yet to see anyone discussing a contributing factor, and certainly don't believe zos knows it is happening. I base this by the fact that they are shocked to hear there are skill delays, immediately assuming it's your out of date addons when anyone that actually plays the game can tell in 2 minutes it's on their end.

Positional dysyncs. I'm not talking about skill delays, those are obvious. Ground based AOEs take multiple inputs to fire, and that's a huge problem, but have you noticed that range of skills requiring a target seem to not be firing? Synergies will not become available while you are standing directly on the associated skill? There is 100% a dysync of player position occurring in every aspect of the game right now.

If you don't feel it, try vBRP. You die outside ground based effects, or die inside mechanics such as the bug bomb from Tames, because the server says you were standing outside the AOE. You fight the last boss and your screen randomly goes blue as if you have been touching the ghosts when you KNOW you weren't even near them. Similarly you walk directly through the center on the golden ghosts players need to pick up during the ghost explosion phase and the server says nope, you didn't walk over that ghost - please try again, maybe the fourth time passing over the center of the ghost we will decide to give credit for doing so. People are dying to the Netches when nowhere near them. On top of dealing with all of these issues, you might think "Ok, well forget score for this run, let's pop sigils to help combat the obvious bugs that are happening in here." Bad luck for you, while standing on top of sigils, the server says nope, you are actually standing 7 meters THAT way, and synergy will not be available for you to use.

My groups all have video evidence of this happening multiple times, regularly. But its not relegated just to that arena. It's everywhere.

In Pvp, whether open world, BGs or even duels, skills that require a minimum range aren't firing due to player position dysync. There are times you have to literally pass through the player to be in range for something that is a 5 meter ability. For example at times executioner feels like it has a 1 meter range right now because although on your screen you are hot on their heels, the server thinks you are about 9 meters behind the intended target.

My point is that yes, buffs, heals, ground based abilities etc are all messed up right now, but this is only part of the problem. Not only are there input delays and server communication errors for allowing skills to fire, there is also a player positioning check that is obviously not calculating properly. It's not just me, it's not just a hunch, this is widespread to every area of the game. Hell even looting chests and resource nodes are getting dysynced. The server doesn't know where you are!

ZOS needs to acknowledge this is happening to know how to fix it. It's not just input delay, it's player positioning on top of that!

Sound off if you are experiencing this as well, so they know all the factors at play with combat being clunky right now!

you wanna see desync? here: https://youtu.be/VUcvDh4Mo4w this is back when vma first came out

Emphatic_Static

Rataroto wrote: »

Emphatic_Static wrote: »

Alright, we all know that skills aren't firing, input delay is abysmal, and block canceling is completely unreliable and wonky. But i have yet to see anyone discussing a contributing factor, and certainly don't believe zos knows it is happening. I base this by the fact that they are shocked to hear there are skill delays, immediately assuming it's your out of date addons when anyone that actually plays the game can tell in 2 minutes it's on their end.

Positional dysyncs. I'm not talking about skill delays, those are obvious. Ground based AOEs take multiple inputs to fire, and that's a huge problem, but have you noticed that range of skills requiring a target seem to not be firing? Synergies will not become available while you are standing directly on the associated skill? There is 100% a dysync of player position occurring in every aspect of the game right now.

If you don't feel it, try vBRP. You die outside ground based effects, or die inside mechanics such as the bug bomb from Tames, because the server says you were standing outside the AOE. You fight the last boss and your screen randomly goes blue as if you have been touching the ghosts when you KNOW you weren't even near them. Similarly you walk directly through the center on the golden ghosts players need to pick up during the ghost explosion phase and the server says nope, you didn't walk over that ghost - please try again, maybe the fourth time passing over the center of the ghost we will decide to give credit for doing so. People are dying to the Netches when nowhere near them. On top of dealing with all of these issues, you might think "Ok, well forget score for this run, let's pop sigils to help combat the obvious bugs that are happening in here." Bad luck for you, while standing on top of sigils, the server says nope, you are actually standing 7 meters THAT way, and synergy will not be available for you to use.

My groups all have video evidence of this happening multiple times, regularly. But its not relegated just to that arena. It's everywhere.

In Pvp, whether open world, BGs or even duels, skills that require a minimum range aren't firing due to player position dysync. There are times you have to literally pass through the player to be in range for something that is a 5 meter ability. For example at times executioner feels like it has a 1 meter range right now because although on your screen you are hot on their heels, the server thinks you are about 9 meters behind the intended target.

My point is that yes, buffs, heals, ground based abilities etc are all messed up right now, but this is only part of the problem. Not only are there input delays and server communication errors for allowing skills to fire, there is also a player positioning check that is obviously not calculating properly. It's not just me, it's not just a hunch, this is widespread to every area of the game. Hell even looting chests and resource nodes are getting dysynced. The server doesn't know where you are!

ZOS needs to acknowledge this is happening to know how to fix it. It's not just input delay, it's player positioning on top of that!

Sound off if you are experiencing this as well, so they know all the factors at play with combat being clunky right now!

you wanna see desync? here: https://youtu.be/VUcvDh4Mo4w this is back when vma first came out

That's entertainment there!

technohic

Maybe its been known by many but I just noticed my desyncs went down by getting rid of my gap closer. Still have issues but rubberbanding dropped considerably