5.3: You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676794
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Sennecca✭✭✭The question is, is there enough people who do bg's to have solo vs group queues? Would solo queues increase decrease the amount of people that do bg's and therefore the amount of people who meet others who they want to queue with so that group and solo queues are viable if not viable atm due to the number of people who queue? If so, this would be a good thing.
That's what this thread is for...
I understand this is a place for feedback. Saying you don't like it and why so that you could get your voice heard is different than saying you are already leaving a game because of a pts note that may not even go live is hard for me to understand.3 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭The question is, is there enough people who do bg's to have solo vs group queues? Would solo queues increase decrease the amount of people that do bg's and therefore the amount of people who meet others who they want to queue with so that group and solo queues are viable if not viable atm due to the number of people who queue? If so, this would be a good thing.
I understand this is a place for feedback. Saying you don't like it and why so that you could get your voice heard is different than saying you are already leaving a game because of a pts note that may not even go live is hard for me to understand.
Letting the company know this could cause me to leave the game if it goes live seems valuable feedback, no?2 -
regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭From the PTS Notes:
"You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds."
This is an extremely bad choice. Preventing players from grouping with friends at all for BGs is a complete non-starter for many of us. I get there should be a solo queue and I understand why that could have knock-on effects in terms of queue times for groups. But to prevent it entirely is a huge problem.
I have several friends where what we enjoy in MMOs is instanced PvP. We play together for that reason. Cyrodil is laggy as crap and fights are infrequent if you aren't riding a zerg. BGs offer an alternative of a balanced game (in terms of player numbers, anyway).
This is NOT the answer to group-vs-solo queues in BGs. This will drive players away. There has to be another solution.
If this sticks going into the live server I won't ever play BG's again. I only play it. Because of friends.2 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭The question is, is there enough people who do bg's to have solo vs group queues? Would solo queues increase decrease the amount of people that do bg's and therefore the amount of people who meet others who they want to queue with so that group and solo queues are viable if not viable atm due to the number of people who queue? If so, this would be a good thing.
wanted to revisit this... I get there is concern about splitting the playerbase between two queue systems. But, the proposed PTS change could also be bad thing is if the people grouping did not continue to queue (as solo instead) and the net increase from players queuing now that solo was implemented did not totally offset the difference.
I am reasonably sure high mmrs will gain players relative to what it will lose, but I also believe lower MMRs will lose a lot of casual duos. How this will impact the system as a whole remains to be seen.
But having an experimental phase with both group and solo queue option seems like a good idea to properly evaluate if the playerbase can support both, because that way players that might leave BGs if they can only solo will have an option, while those that will only solo will have an option. If in the end there are not enough players for either, a decision can be made then.0 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
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wanted to revisit this... I get there is concern about splitting the playerbase between two queue systems. But, the proposed PTS change could also be bad thing is if the people grouping did not continue to queue (as solo instead) and the net increase from players queuing now that solo was implemented did not totally offset the difference.
I am reasonably sure high mmrs will gain players relative to what it will lose, but I also believe lower MMRs will lose a lot of casual duos. How this will impact the system as a whole remains to be seen.
But having an experimental phase with both group and solo queue option seems like a good idea to properly evaluate if the playerbase can support both, because that way players that might leave BGs if they can only solo will have an option, while those that will only solo will have an option. If in the end there are not enough players for either, a decision can be made then.
There is absolutely no need for an experimental phase. There absolutely is not enough population for a group queue. Full stop. Period.
Bgs do not need radical alterations. The number of "premades" running around is grossly exaggerated by a handful of loud voices on these forums and by a few whiny streamers.6 -
Kidgangster101✭✭✭✭✭
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There is absolutely no need for an experimental phase. There absolutely is not enough population for a group queue. Full stop. Period.
Bgs do not need radical alterations. The number of "premades" running around is grossly exaggerated by a handful of loud voices on these forums and by a few whiny streamers.
Yep people are just upset because they are trash at the game but don't want to say it's their fault and always need to put the blame on "premade groups" except sometimes it is really just a group with a healer lol
I've been in solo matches where I go 18-0 or 18-1 while having top score and carrying my team. But guess what? Because I boddied bad players they say I'm in a premade and just laughed. I actually ended up on the guys team that sent me a huge angry private message once and I just smiled and group and told him it's my turn to carry him on my back. Wonder if he thought I was in a premade still after I had great record in that game as well.......2 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hot damn that's awesome news for me!
100% nobody left because of me queueing with a couple of CP 140ish dudes, half of them without any gear at all. Not a single one of them has even a single monster set. But we had fun anyway, because none of us cared about dying, and we were playing with each other. These are guys that picked the game up in the last exp event. None of us farmed anything, our MMR is extremely low. We're not going to ever make crazy optimized builds because none of us want to be srs pvp guardplars or whatever. So no, we were never the problem and never would be. I am the only one with any real pvp experience and I quit the game months ago because I had nobody to play with, only came back recently. You [edit: actually Fengrush too] were my only connection to ESO PvP at that point, since I watch you nearly every day.
I understand the other side of the coin. I watch you all the time and I see you fight premades a couple times a night, and in those cases you typically lose. I get that. I know that is frustrating. But why not just add a group queue? Why LIMIT what players can do, instead of adding to it?
[edited because Mursie is right, he did say group v group would be good to add]
You started off saying you just played BG's with your wife. A few posts later you speak of you and a group of your friends being pushed away due to these changes and now you speak of queuing as a full party.
Yes, plenty of us stopped playing because we ran into premades. It wasn't fun. This will ensure a fair fight takes place. Every single time. A team full of random solo players vs a premade team of friends who probably all are mic'd up and accustomed to playing with one another, optimized or not will have a bad time. Almost every single time. I think this is a great change and hopefully in the future they can have a separate que for premades.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1 -
Nirnroot420✭✭✭
There is absolutely no need for an experimental phase. There absolutely is not enough population for a group queue. Full stop. Period.
Bgs do not need radical alterations. The number of "premades" running around is grossly exaggerated by a handful of loud voices on these forums and by a few whiny streamers.
100%. There are almost no extant 4-man premades queuing for BG's on PC NA. It's a phantom problem. Most of those groups and guilds are shadows of their former selves or no longer exist at all. Nine times out of ten these days when someone cries "premade!' after getting trounced, they're dead wrong, and I am, outside of a few organized events/tournaments, exclusively a solo player.
But what about the odd time a buddy wants to queue up? That's not a possibility under this new system. And if you think the PvP forums/community is whiny about nerfs now, just wait until MMR is disabled and we're lighting up the less experienced/dedicated players. It'll be a dumpster fire.
This is just another instance of ZoS not understanding it's PvP community as a whole.4 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭You think you hate it now, but if this goes live I can't wait till some of you queue up with that player type that just runs to the back and hides leaving the rest hanging.Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%1 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭
You started off saying you just played BG's with your wife. A few posts later you speak of you and a group of your friends being pushed away due to these changes and now you speak of queuing as a full party.
Yes, plenty of us stopped playing because we ran into premades. It wasn't fun. This will ensure a fair fight takes place. Every single time. A team full of random solo players vs a premade team of friends who probably all are mic'd up and accustomed to playing with one another, optimized or not will have a bad time. Almost every single time. I think this is a great change and hopefully in the future they can have a separate que for premades.
Unlikely, given I'm not married. Are you confusing me with someone? I am almost always solo or duo in BGs, more typically duo lately. I've NEVER queued as a full party. I've had 1 BG ever with 3 people. I'm mostly duo'd. I've gotten 5 friends to pick the game up. None are meta.
I have seen plenty of pugs beat premades in other games. The reason that premades seem so bad here, IMO, is the relative strength of healing others.1 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Woo Hoo! This is awesome news! Where's the party?!PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nirnroot420 wrote: »
100%. There are almost no extant 4-man premades queuing for BG's on PC NA. It's a phantom problem. Most of those groups and guilds are shadows of their former selves or no longer exist at all. Nine times out of ten these days when someone cries "premade!' after getting trounced, they're dead wrong, and I am, outside of a few organized events/tournaments, exclusively a solo player.
But what about the odd time a buddy wants to queue up? That's not a possibility under this new system. And if you think the PvP forums/community is whiny about nerfs now, just wait until MMR is disabled and we're lighting up the less experienced/dedicated players. It'll be a dumpster fire.
This is just another instance of ZoS not understanding it's PvP community as a whole.
Right. We are both part of the largest BG guild NA. How many premades do we have at any given time? None. We havent had more than an occasional duo queue in weeks.
"Premades against solos" is a complete non issue. The real problem is the decay of the bg population and the skill/gear gap. One or 2 of the remaining top tier players being grouped together by queue finder is sufficient to farm the other teams.
As an example, earlier today I got into a game with mystikkal and ire works. We won 500 to 15. We werent premade, but im sure some of the players on the opposing team felt like it2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS sure does love to go from one extreme to the other. Instead they need a "balanced" option that you can check if you want your bg to be balanced with groups. When checked you only get put in BGs with your premade group size. If its not checked you get put in as it is now.
That way those who care if they are playing against premades or not have the option to play against a similar group and those of us who dont care( most of the time) can still get fast queues while those who want to play with friends are not punished. Everyone wins, no one loses.0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
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Lets do this!!!
Edit: now can we have a “king of the hill” or 1vX BGs mode?Edited by UppGRAYxDD on January 21, 2020 5:20AM"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Omg, it's the pts. the sky is not falling. It's there to try and give feedback on.
This is going to hit live. In their own words, this is an experiment to see what impact this has on match making and the player experience. They cannot have such an experiment on the PTS, as there's not enough players participating to create a large enough sample size to accurately determine the outcome. For this experiment to work, it has to hit live and stay on live for a healthy length of time, whatever they deem adequate.2 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS needs to give up on the three team system, it clearly hasn't turned out well, and move to a more traditional two team system like every other game. 8v8 would work fine. For those of you who have only ever played ESO, no, the teams aren't too large with 8v8. Every other MMO has instanced pvp with much larger teams, and it works much better than BGs in ESO does. There would be no need to limit premades from queueing, just limit the group size to 4 so one team can only be made up of half of a premade at most, and match them up against other premades.
There, I fixed BGs.
edit: This is not going to "bring players back". Players don't queue for BGs because they aren't fun, not because they lose to premades. Most people don't care if they lose if they have fun. Most players don't have fun getting rear-ended while in an even fight. I've never, ever seen any MMO outright ban all premades, even duos. This is a first, and the major difference here between ESO and every other MMO is the third team. Three teams leads to messy, directionless, disorganized matches where you're either outnumbered, outnumbering your opponents, or ignoring pvp altogether to do objectives while the other two teams pvp. None of these scenarios have any sort of direct appeal to players.
Winning doesn't feel good, because you probably did it by taking advantage of superior numbers by rear-ending another team, stealing kills, or standing on a flag while everyone else did some pvp. Losing especially doesn't feel good because you often lose when people steal your kills, or when you decide to pvp, which you're penalized for because the third team is then allowed to take objectives without any sort of confrontation. It sucks and it isn't fun. You don't ever win by directly engaging in pvp, you win by waiting to jump someone about to die, or avoiding pvp as much as you possibly can.Edited by ecru on January 21, 2020 5:33AMGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer3 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.
What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.
This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.
Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.
Pretty much it.0 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭From the PTS Notes:
"You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds."
This is an extremely bad choice. Preventing players from grouping with friends at all for BGs is a complete non-starter for many of us. I get there should be a solo queue and I understand why that could have knock-on effects in terms of queue times for groups. But to prevent it entirely is a huge problem.
I have several friends where what we enjoy in MMOs is instanced PvP. We play together for that reason. Cyrodil is laggy as crap and fights are infrequent if you aren't riding a zerg. BGs offer an alternative of a balanced game (in terms of player numbers, anyway).
This is NOT the answer to group-vs-solo queues in BGs. This will drive players away. There has to be another solution.
There had to be a fix for the current premade domination of bgs. Whilst I would have preferred separate queues for premade and pugs, solo queue only is better than the current system.0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thannazzar wrote: »
There had to be a fix for the current premade domination of bgs. Whilst I would have preferred separate queues for premade and pugs, solo queue only is better than the current system.
There isn't a "premade domination" of BG's, that's a nice excuse people tell themselves for losing matches. The amount of premades out there are easily counted on 1-2 hands/server (and that's being optimistic). Zos should've added two separate queues and the current solution is a poor one.
Edit: A duo is not a premade and you should be able to solo and duo queue next patch imo.Edited by Qbiken on January 21, 2020 7:15AM7 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Thannazzar wrote: »There had to be a fix for the current premade domination of bgs. Whilst I would have preferred separate queues for premade and pugs, solo queue only is better than the current system.
is the problem really anyone grouping with anyone else, or is it stacked 3-4 players?
it just seems to me that prohibiting players from playing together in an MMO entirely in a game mode is a strange and overall negative move.
there has to be other ways to deal with the problems that BGs are facing with premades - first of all, perhaps by taking a look at non-self healing.3 -
Jessy1981✭✭Though I understand that making people do solo content in mmo is weird it has been introduced in eso since MA. So it isn’t new. Making an other system for groups could be an option but I don’t know the numbers and it would prob mean that you need to always cue with 4 or 2 cause else you cannot have a group cue. So I think for now since balancing didn’t really work this might help with it and cue times even though I don’t like doing solo content in mmo (best of all the bad options...)0
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mav1234✭✭✭✭✭Though I understand that making people do solo content in mmo is weird it has been introduced in eso since MA. So it isn’t new. Making an other system for groups could be an option but I don’t know the numbers and it would prob mean that you need to always cue with 4 or 2 cause else you cannot have a group cue. So I think for now since balancing didn’t really work this might help with it and cue times even though I don’t like doing solo content in mmo (best of all the bad options...)
As far as I know, MA was always a solo instance; it was not turned into a solo activity later on. Moreover, it is actually solo... There are no other players in it... It just seems weird to take a group activity and require it be done solo...
Mursie was talking about how another game had a specific BG people could only queue for solo... That also would make sense to me...
I think it would be fine to require 2 or 4 in a group queue, anyway.1 -
Daemonai✭✭✭✭
There isn't a "premade domination" of BG's, that's a nice excuse people tell themselves for losing matches. The amount of premades out there are easily counted on 1-2 hands/server (and that's being optimistic). Zos should've added two separate queues and the current solution is a poor one.
Edit: A duo is not a premade and you should be able to solo and duo queue next patch imo.
If most people are queuing solo, by your own admission, then almost no one will be inconvenienced by the change, yeah? So what is there to be mad about...unless you want to be one of the few pug-stomping premades.5 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
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There isn't a "premade domination" of BG's, that's a nice excuse people tell themselves for losing matches. The amount of premades out there are easily counted on 1-2 hands/server (and that's being optimistic). Zos should've added two separate queues and the current solution is a poor one.
Edit: A duo is not a premade and you should be able to solo and duo queue next patch imo.
So would you be happy with a solo queue and a group queue(2-4 players) being separate? Or do u you not want your duo group to come up a gainst a premade despite their being no 'premade domination'.Edited by Thannazzar on January 21, 2020 7:59AM0
This discussion has been closed.