5.3: You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.
Update 46 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/676794
Maintenance for the week of April 21:
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mav1234✭✭✭✭✭This does help the growth of new players. A new player might enjoy battlegrounds, find out they are skilled at it. Their MMR rises to the point where they run into pre-mades and the fun stops.
This change however in no way stops people from playing with their friends. Cyrodil, Imperial city, trials, dungeons, still exist.
By the time players are at that MMR, they are hardly new players, unless they are grouped with others.
This does stop people from playing with friends, because not all of us want to play hide and go seek in Cyrodill/IC. I brought a friend of mine out there and after he and I rode around for 30 minutes and only found either 20+ person groups or single players, we went back to BGs.
Last I checked Trials and Dungeons were PvE, but yeah
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Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Or the community organises a premade night, where multiple premades queue and make some fun event and the rest of the time solo bgs are going more regularly.
This has been attempted on PC-NA. Didn't last long.Light Attack Hero
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Eso bgs as they currently exist in regards to game modes and team format are not in any way shape or form nor will they ever be competitive.
Competitive is subjective, but objectively at the end of the day it’s simply competing for a specific goal. Bgs has that regardless of anyone’s subjective opinion of it.
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iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭I like this. No more premades in solo queues!
Actual premades are incredibly rare. This is a fix in search of a problem pl
This has been attempted on PC-NA. Didn't last long.
My guild of 180+ has been doing this for 3 months. Every weekend. PC NAEdited by iCaliban on January 20, 2020 9:38PM5 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭
Maybe if ZOS told us what their rationale was, it might seem less like a bad band-aid that is about to drive away my small group of friends - none of us have ever queued as a 4 stack, let alone one with optimized anything, since almost all of them but me are new to the game. And they will now be quitting when this goes live.
It doesn't make sense to gather data on two potential queue options at different times. If their end goal is a group queue and a single queue, they should implement BOTH simultaneously. This is an awful solution that simply drives some players out of the game, while two queues would reveal if there really are boatloads of solo players lurking to play that are avoiding queuing due to premades.
We as players have to realize major changes to systems doenst happen at the snap of a finger. The change you want doesnt sound viable without a lot of back end rework on the system to implement two different queuing systems. Adding in solo queues only is much easier to do. If the data they collect proves worth the change and we see a lot more players back in BGs then it might lead to resources being put into making the changes you want in the future.
Edited by Inklings on January 20, 2020 9:39PM0 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭
disagree with you entirely. this is a terrible band-aid that will drive me, and many others, out of the game. the problem has never been premades at low MMR, where new players are.
what this does is mean players like you, mursie, won't run into premades. that is great. but it doesn't actually help the growth of the NEW players, what it does is just make it so people can't play an MMORPG with their friends. That is a dumb change. I get if this was a competitive queue, but it's not. The leaderboard isn't based on skill, we can't see MMR, etc. It just doesn't make sense to go this route versus enabling both group and solo queue.
it drives you away? ok. how many were driven away playing against you and your friends? how many matches did you steamroll where the opposing side with 0 kills and double digit deaths logged off the game and never returned to bg's? if you think this doesn't happen right now, you're delusional. i see it every single day in bg's. entire 4 man teams with 0 kills and double digit deaths while other teams with duo, 3 or even full 4 are steaming rolling double digit kills and 0 deaths. I understand that farming is fun sometimes...and not queing with your friends may deter you playing some...or entirely. but understand the other side of the coin. there are people not playing at all simply because you were queing with friends.
i believe strongly that overall - this will be a major boon to population activity in bg's. more people will now enter and enter confident they are playing a fair match...than those that will leave.14 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭it drives you away? ok. how many were driven away playing against you and your friends? how many matches did you steamroll where the opposing side with 0 kills and double digit deaths logged off the game and never returned to bg's? if you think this doesn't happen right now, you're delusional. i see it every single day in bg's. entire 4 man teams with 0 kills and double digit deaths while other teams with duo, 3 or even full 4 are steaming rolling double digit kills and 0 deaths. I understand that farming is fun sometimes...and not queing with your friends may deter you playing some...or entirely. but understand the other side of the coin. there are people not playing at all simply because you were queing with friends.
i believe strongly that overall - this will be a major boon to population activity in bg's. more people will now enter and enter confident they are playing a fair match...than those that will leave.
100% nobody left because of me queueing with a couple of CP 140ish dudes, half of them without any gear at all. Not a single one of them has even a single monster set. But we had fun anyway, because none of us cared about dying, and we were playing with each other. These are guys that picked the game up in the last exp event. None of us farmed anything, our MMR is extremely low. We're not going to ever make crazy optimized builds because none of us want to be srs pvp guardplars or whatever. So no, we were never the problem and never would be. I am the only one with any real pvp experience and I quit the game months ago because I had nobody to play with, only came back recently. You [edit: actually Fengrush too] were my only connection to ESO PvP at that point, since I watch you nearly every day.
I understand the other side of the coin. I watch you all the time and I see you fight premades a couple times a night, and in those cases you typically lose. I get that. I know that is frustrating. But why not just add a group queue? Why LIMIT what players can do, instead of adding to it?
[edited because Mursie is right, he did say group v group would be good to add]Edited by mav1234 on January 20, 2020 10:00PM1 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭
100% nobody left because of me queueing with a couple of CP 140ish dudes, half of them without any gear at all. Not a single one of them has even a single monster set. But we had fun anyway, because none of us cared about dying, and we were playing with each other. These are guys that picked the game up in the last exp event. None of us farmed anything, our MMR is extremely low. We're not going to ever make crazy optimized builds because none of us want to be srs pvp guardplars or whatever. So no, we were never the problem and never would be. I am the only one with any real pvp experience and I quit the game months ago because I had nobody to play with, only came back recently. You were my only connection to ESO PvP at that point, since I watch you nearly every day.
I understand the other side of the coin. I watch you all the time and I see you fight premades a couple times a night, and in those cases you typically lose. I get that. I know that is frustrating. But why not just add a group queue? Why LIMIT what players can do, instead of adding to it?
You refuse to see the other side of the coin, and so you and other players like you celebrate this change because understandably it makes your experience and the content you create better. But there is another element here. *You* could queue with Thogard, Novelli, etc but you choose not to. You *choose* not to. Sure, plenty of solo players do not have the options you do, but almost all of them could find people to queue with and do not. You would not find it *fun* to group with those guys because you like to play solo. But what about those of us that *want* to group up and are happy fighting other groups? Why can't we have BGs too? Because it is too complex??? Then maybe they should wait to do this until they have the ability to code group queues.
please read my initial response mav - i said they need to have a group v group que.
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Paganini✭✭✭This change is unacceptable! When Morrowind was released, the Battlegrounds where my main-reason to buy the addon. I like to group up with friends, create suitable group Setups and play tactical with my friends.
I DON'T want to play only with randoms all the time, who don't even know what a burst combo is or don't even know, that they can do more than just using left-click.
I really hope Zos will rethink this decission. If not, Battlegrounds will be dead for me. And i will have to rethink, If i'll ever pay again so much money for an addon/Feature, that are going to be destoyed 3 years later!1 -
Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭
it drives you away? ok. how many were driven away playing against you and your friends? how many matches did you steamroll where the opposing side with 0 kills and double digit deaths logged off the game and never returned to bg's? if you think this doesn't happen right now, you're delusional. i see it every single day in bg's. entire 4 man teams with 0 kills and double digit deaths while other teams with duo, 3 or even full 4 are steaming rolling double digit kills and 0 deaths. I understand that farming is fun sometimes...and not queing with your friends may deter you playing some...or entirely. but understand the other side of the coin. there are people not playing at all simply because you were queing with friends.
i believe strongly that overall - this will be a major boon to population activity in bg's. more people will now enter and enter confident they are playing a fair match...than those that will leave.
I'm not sure how much this will ultimately solve. Last we deduced, MMR is cumulative, rising with #games played. I haven't seen anything to prove you can lose MMR.
So, yay. We have a feeding frenzy for a few weeks until its back to business as usual, the same familiar 11 faces every other match. The "New" or learning players eventually catch up to "High MMR" via #games played, and more often than not prefer to quit as soon as their strategy doesn't cut it against stronger players, rather than adapt.
Actual premades are incredibly rare. This is a fix in search of a problem pl
My guild of 180+ has been doing this for 3 months. Every weekend. PC NA
Lines right up with the break I've been on, lol. Props to you. That is no easy task.Light Attack Hero
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exeeter702✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭BaiterOfZergs wrote: »
Competitive is subjective, but objectively at the end of the day it’s simply competing for a specific goal. Bgs has that regardless of anyone’s subjective opinion of it.
Let me be more specific. If you think bgs are competitive or indicative of any type of team based skill, you are fooling only yourself.2 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't really do PVP and almost zero BGs. I'm really rubbish at it. They only way I was doing them is going with friends who were on a similar level of rubbishness. Now that's gone too.PS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat1 -
mav1234✭✭✭✭✭So there is another solution to the group vs solo queue problem.
Prevent solo queues.
That seems insane, doesn't it? And yet, we are talking about group pvp content around objectives, things that require group coordination at some level. But none of us would support that.
So why, as players, should we support banning groups if we can't have two queues?Edited by mav1234 on January 20, 2020 9:57PM1 -
Eirella✭✭✭✭✭Rip. BGs with friends were pretty much the only thing that has kept me playing.
Yep, pretty much this lol. I have no more reason to play this game anymore
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Skysenzz✭✭✭too lazy to read everything but as a single pvp player (95% of the time) I really enjoy the fact that i won't be grouped vs the same 4man premade on a friday afternoon and getting stomped every single time. however i would just keep a solo/duo queue in the same group, then if some people wanna 4man premade they do it, but they can ONLY play vs 4man premade. they should be aware that it will take more time than usual but hey, it's your issue.
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mursie✭✭✭✭✭
I'm not sure how much this will ultimately solve. Last we deduced, MMR is cumulative, rising with #games played. I haven't seen anything to prove you can lose MMR.
So, yay. We have a feeding frenzy for a few weeks until its back to business as usual, the same familiar 11 faces every other match. The "New" or learning players eventually catch up to "High MMR" via #games played, and more often than not prefer to quit as soon as their strategy doesn't cut it against stronger players, rather than adapt.
with solo que - you can intermingle low and high evenly across teams. you dont have to have only high face high. but this will now eliminate the significant economies of scale that do occur when multiple high MMR players ensure via duo, 3 man, or 4 man ques that they will dominate all opponents, including other high MMR ones.
if implemented correctly - i think you could have more population playing with matches seeing new faces constantly. each team getting 1 high mmr, 2 mid, 1 low... etc..1 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Premades brought Cyrodiil with them into BGs. I don't think it's fun trying to solo an organized group.1 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »
Let me be more specific. If you think bgs are competitive or indicative of any type of team based skill, you are fooling only yourself.
I never said it was , think my initial comment implied that. However, this is only going to turn into “my opinion of competitive is more valid than your opinion of competitive” but we can all look up what the word means regardless of our opinions. And again that’s simply to win, reach a goal or to be better.
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Jhough503Soul ShrivenIn what world does putting four random players on a team that aren't communicating make it "more competitive". I do bgs with my friends to play something different than the same laggy boring mess of cyrodiil that it has been for the last 5 years. How about you add some actual pvp content like a new pvp zone instead of a stupid hammer and act like it's some big new pvp attraction.4
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭#1 reason it wasnt as fun as it should have been queueing solo into bg...was premades. Thx.
PC EU
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mav1234✭✭✭✭✭with solo que - you can intermingle low and high evenly across teams. you dont have to have only high face high. but this will now eliminate the significant economies of scale that do occur when multiple high MMR players ensure via duo, 3 man, or 4 man ques that they will dominate all opponents, including other high MMR ones.
if implemented correctly - i think you could have more population playing with matches seeing new faces constantly. each team getting 1 high mmr, 2 mid, 1 low... etc..
if this was true, when no premades were present, you should have seen lots of new faces. was that true? back in summerset (the last time I was decent at pvp), that was not the case for me. when premades were absent, it was always largely the same group of people. yes a couple differences but not a ton. but ti has been a LONG time and perhaps things have changed since then.
also it does seem MMR can decay since I used to be in games with a lot of the higher leaderboard players and now I almost never see them.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They need to make two queues.
Solo
And group. And group accept it may be a long wait.
I'm glad they addressing issues but it seems odd to not let people team up.
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OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think this change will be great. Especially if they add a whole new mode for grouped players. So, my idea, is keep BGs solo and make another PvP mode for grouped players0 -
SpiderKnight✭✭✭✭✭
✭Besides quite a few cost reductions, this was the best change I saw. Please keep it this way, Zos.0
This discussion has been closed.