5.3: You can now only queue as a solo player into Battlegrounds.

Bashev

This is experimental.
I am pretty sure that the main purpose is just to show to most of the players that the premades are not the main factor when they are rected.

Inklings

There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.

What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.

This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.

Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.

SodanTok

Inklings wrote: »

There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.

What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.

This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.

Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.

By definition of "reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again" there cant be many of you

Reverb

That seems like an overreaction to the problem of premades packing up non-optimized groups of randos. I burnt out on BG quite awhile ago and only go now if friends or guildmates want to group up for a few rounds. Most people I know only queue for BG with a friend or two. This change is likely to tank participation in BG. Solo BG’ers rejoice. Be ready to see the same 10 people over and over forever.

idk

Reverb wrote: »

That seems like an overreaction to the problem of premades packing up non-optimized groups of randos. I burnt out on BG quite awhile ago and only go now if friends or guildmates want to group up for a few rounds. Most people I know only queue for BG with a friend or two. This change is likely to tank participation in BG. Solo BG’ers rejoice. Be ready to see the same 10 people over and over forever.

Zos is not even taking into consideration what is actually happening in game. They specifically say this is in reaction to players complaints.

OrderoftheDarkness

Lol why would someone prove something? Do the sellers in the store prove anything to you?
Another change to Dizzy and bad class spammable. Reducing the cost for Blade cloak for more frequent use of BRP, and etc. Thank you for helping me decide on the game. I chose between the two.

delichon

I like this. No more premades in solo queues!

mav1234

Inklings wrote: »

There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.

What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.

This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.

Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.

That doesn't make sense. If they believe there are enough players for both queues, but they just aren't queuing because of fighting premades, they should implement both and see, not drive away players that want to play in a group to try to attract solo players back to BGs.

Royaji

At this point I'm pretty sure that ZOS is legally forced to drop some "nuclear" solutions every patch. This time they've just missed ability and class balancing and dropped them on BG grouping instead.

exeeter702

The answer was never to implement hyper non competitive 3x4man team bgs to begin with.

Had bgs been 8 v 8 objective based pvp instances where the largest premade size was 4 players per team, and each bg map was specifically built rock solid with a specifc game mode in mind, there wouldnt be issues with premade pug stomping nor screwed up team sizes.

mav1234

exeeter702 wrote: »

The answer was never to implement hyper non competitive 3x4man team bgs to begin with.

Had bgs been 8 v 8 objective based pvp instances where the largest premade size was 4 players per team, and each bg map was specifically built rock solid with a specifc game mode in mind, there wouldnt be issues with premade pug stomping nor screwed up team sizes.

This is a decent solution to the current issue, but that would require more resources than they'll put forward unfortunately.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

This is 100% the correct route to go down for standard BGs.

Group vs Group BGs should be a separate option, with the ability for players to choose rulesets (such as number of players) and challenge other groups.

Inklings

mav1234 wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.

What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.

This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.

Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.

That doesn't make sense. If they believe there are enough players for both queues, but they just aren't queuing because of fighting premades, they should implement both and see, not drive away players that want to play in a group to try to attract solo players back to BGs.

Makes perfect sense. They need separate pools to get data from. I wouldn't be surprised that after this solo queue test we get one with both separate solo and group queues if its freezable to do with out much rework of the BG system.(thats another big factor into this)

Most people in this thread think ZOS is just randomly doing this cause of player complaints/feedback. They have numbers we will NEVER get to see that reflect these types of decisions. This isnt just being done willy-nilly.

Qwazzy

Best change of the patch.

mav1234

Inklings wrote: »

Makes perfect sense. They need separate pools to get data from. I wouldn't be surprised that after this solo queue test we get one with both separate solo and group queues if its freezable to do with out much rework of the BG system.(thats another big factor into this)

Most people in this thread think ZOS is just randomly doing this cause of player complaints/feedback. They have numbers we will NEVER get to see that reflect these types of decisions. This isnt just being done willy-nilly.

Maybe if ZOS told us what their rationale was, it might seem less like a bad band-aid that is about to drive away my small group of friends - none of us have ever queued as a 4 stack, let alone one with optimized anything, since almost all of them but me are new to the game. And they will now be quitting when this goes live.

It doesn't make sense to gather data on two potential queue options at different times. If their end goal is a group queue and a single queue, they should implement BOTH simultaneously. This is an awful solution that simply drives some players out of the game, while two queues would reveal if there really are boatloads of solo players lurking to play that are avoiding queuing due to premades.

mursie

one of the best patch note changes by a large margin.

bg's need to be as "fair" and "balanced" as possible to help promote growth of new pvp players.

I do agree that a custom group v group lobby needs to be made for the select few that love to compete in organized/structured group combat... but I do believe that the vast majority of players entering bg's are solo and promoting solo que play will give bg's the best opportunity to create fair and balanced teams.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Inklings wrote: »

mav1234 wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

There is simply not enough players to have separate queues for both solo and group queues.

What there is a lot of though are players who no longer do BGs cause once we reach a certain MMR all we do is face the same premades over and over and over again.

This change is gonna bring back a lot of people to BGs.

Hopefully it brings back enough players that they see a good increase in BG participation that in the future it will allow two separate queue systems. This is why they stressed this is an experiment.

That doesn't make sense. If they believe there are enough players for both queues, but they just aren't queuing because of fighting premades, they should implement both and see, not drive away players that want to play in a group to try to attract solo players back to BGs.

Makes perfect sense. They need separate pools to get data from. I wouldn't be surprised that after this solo queue test we get one with both separate solo and group queues if its freezable to do with out much rework of the BG system.(thats another big factor into this)

Most people in this thread think ZOS is just randomly doing this cause of player complaints/feedback. They have numbers we will NEVER get to see that reflect these types of decisions. This isnt just being done willy-nilly.

Actually ZOS's numbers are seriously questionable. The one time they release numbers (about AP gains) they said most players were averaging 30k ap/h with one group making 70k ap/h. At the time an entire campaign was locked on EU with players making over 250k/h bleakers flipping.

Grimlok_S

A premade-only queue would look like this:

1. Premade waits an eternity for a match.

2. Premade gets rolled by better premade(s).

3. Bad premade logs/disbands. Better premade cycles back to step 1.

Tirps

Rip. BGs with friends were pretty much the only thing that has kept me playing.

MartiniDaniels

mav1234 wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Makes perfect sense. They need separate pools to get data from. I wouldn't be surprised that after this solo queue test we get one with both separate solo and group queues if its freezable to do with out much rework of the BG system.(thats another big factor into this)

Most people in this thread think ZOS is just randomly doing this cause of player complaints/feedback. They have numbers we will NEVER get to see that reflect these types of decisions. This isnt just being done willy-nilly.

Maybe if ZOS told us what their rationale was, it might seem less like a bad band-aid that is about to drive away my small group of friends - none of us have ever queued as a 4 stack, let alone one with optimized anything, since almost all of them but me are new to the game. And they will now be quitting when this goes live.

It doesn't make sense to gather data on two potential queue options at different times. If their end goal is a group queue and a single queue, they should implement BOTH simultaneously. This is an awful solution that simply drives some players out of the game, while two queues would reveal if there really are boatloads of solo players lurking to play that are avoiding queuing due to premades.

Yes, they should make 2 queues, one "classical" and one solo. Make MMR brackets softer on classical to speed up group finding for high-MMR. Otherwise, if this goes live, for many it will be instant deletion of the game.

Cously

This answer is not catered to solo players but for the sake of fairness. Anyone who is honest with themselves know the problem it was with premades x fresh noobs and how those noobs would be driven away on frustration. Clearly the MMR wasn't working as intended. Several times I saw clear imbalances btw the teams I'd play for and against, plus the ridiculous things of start a match with only 2 players on the team vs 4x4.

Generally, "fun with friends" is a concept that should not be above "fairness and balance". What makes a game enjoyable for all participants are steady rules. ZOS did go to far on that one solution, however. They should make a compromise and allow duos in the queue. It's awesome to have a duo on BG, you can work together on several situations, have fun and keep the balance, as two players are technically half of the team and shouldn't have such a big impact like a 4 man premade.

Finally, there should be an option left for full premades, to go 4x4x4. Whilst this queue would most likely start off stale and empty, over time you would see an increase as players transition from the other queues. After all once one has a fair chance to win then it's most likely they will stick with the gameplay and try to improve and move to higher tiers. And that would be the beauty of it, casuals, duos and new players would have their safe space to learn and master their PVP skills whilst the icing on the cake would go to the spetacular 4x4x4 pro matches.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Grimlok_S wrote: »

A premade-only queue would look like this:

1. Premade waits an eternity for a match.

2. Premade gets rolled by better premade(s).

3. Bad premade logs/disbands. Better premade cycles back to step 1.

Or the community organises a premade night, where multiple premades queue and make some fun event and the rest of the time solo bgs are going more regularly.

mav1234

mursie wrote: »

one of the best patch note changes by a large margin.

bg's need to be as "fair" and "balanced" as possible to help promote growth of new pvp players.

I do agree that a custom group v group lobby needs to be made for the select few that love to compete in organized/structured group combat... but I do believe that the vast majority of players entering bg's are solo and promoting solo que play will give bg's the best opportunity to create fair and balanced teams.

disagree with you entirely. this is a terrible band-aid that will drive me, and many others, out of the game. the problem has never been premades at low MMR, where new players are.

what this does is mean players like you, mursie, won't run into premades. that is great. but it doesn't actually help the growth of the NEW players, what it does is just make it so people can't play an MMORPG with their friends. That is a dumb change. I get if this was a competitive queue, but it's not. The leaderboard isn't based on skill, we can't see MMR, etc. It just doesn't make sense to go this route versus enabling both group and solo queue.

edit: Disagree with you entirely about BGs needing to exist as fair and balanced RE: growth of new players, that is.

idk

mav1234 wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

Makes perfect sense. They need separate pools to get data from. I wouldn't be surprised that after this solo queue test we get one with both separate solo and group queues if its freezable to do with out much rework of the BG system.(thats another big factor into this)

Most people in this thread think ZOS is just randomly doing this cause of player complaints/feedback. They have numbers we will NEVER get to see that reflect these types of decisions. This isnt just being done willy-nilly.

Maybe if ZOS told us what their rationale was, it might seem less like a bad band-aid that is about to drive away my small group of friends - none of us have ever queued as a 4 stack, let alone one with optimized anything, since almost all of them but me are new to the game. And they will now be quitting when this goes live.

It doesn't make sense to gather data on two potential queue options at different times. If their end goal is a group queue and a single queue, they should implement BOTH simultaneously. This is an awful solution that simply drives some players out of the game, while two queues would reveal if there really are boatloads of solo players lurking to play that are avoiding queuing due to premades.

Zos told us their reasoning. Player feedback and an experiment. They have not said a thing about premade issues.

They did falsely suggest it would help competitiveness since it would actually reduce the chance of getting a healer in once group as well as increase the chance of getting a 4 healer group. That would be funny but at least competent players are able to swap builds pretty fast.

Those that complained about premade groups will have no one to blame now.

mav1234

idk wrote: »

Zos told us their reasoning. Player feedback and an experiment. They have not said a thing about premade issues.

They did falsely suggest it would help competitiveness since it would actually reduce the chance of getting a healer in once group as well as increase the chance of getting a 4 healer group. That would be funny but at least competent players are able to swap builds pretty fast.

Those that complained about premade groups will have no one to blame now.

Inklings, who knows more devs than I do, has suggested there is more to it than that. If he's right, that rationale WOULD be helpful.

OrderoftheDarkness

I'll say one last thing before I leave. Don't make up serious things about the game it's not life. Do not look for deep meaning in the list of this patch. Most likely this is done for attempts to repair queue. Suddenly it will start to break again.
P. S. I wish ZoS that they could fix queue once and for all. gl!

BaiterOfZergs

It’s a good change, it would be better to have multiple options but the game can’t support that.

With this change I think ESO will finally have its own competitive scene. I look forward to more even matches in high mmr.

Zos can also take this as an opportunity to add an event that is based on grouping up, this way pvp players can have more than one event.

LADYKiLLER

Near the top of the list on patch note disappointments. I don't play an MMO to not play with my friends. Feel pretty bad for any guilds focused on BG play right now.

Erelah

mav1234 wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

one of the best patch note changes by a large margin.

bg's need to be as "fair" and "balanced" as possible to help promote growth of new pvp players.

I do agree that a custom group v group lobby needs to be made for the select few that love to compete in organized/structured group combat... but I do believe that the vast majority of players entering bg's are solo and promoting solo que play will give bg's the best opportunity to create fair and balanced teams.

disagree with you entirely. this is a terrible band-aid that will drive me, and many others, out of the game. the problem has never been premades at low MMR, where new players are.

what this does is mean players like you, mursie, won't run into premades. that is great. but it doesn't actually help the growth of the NEW players, what it does is just make it so people can't play an MMORPG with their friends. That is a dumb change. I get if this was a competitive queue, but it's not. The leaderboard isn't based on skill, we can't see MMR, etc. It just doesn't make sense to go this route versus enabling both group and solo queue.

This does help the growth of new players. A new player might enjoy battlegrounds, find out they are skilled at it. Their MMR rises to the point where they run into pre-mades and the fun stops.

This change however in no way stops people from playing with their friends. Cyrodil, Imperial city, trials, dungeons, still exist.

exeeter702

BaiterOfZergs wrote: »

It’s a good change, it would be better to have multiple options but the game can’t support that.

With this change I think ESO will finally have its own competitive scene. I look forward to more even matches in high mmr.

Zos can also take this as an opportunity to add an event that is based on grouping up, this way pvp players can have more than one event.

Eso bgs as they currently exist in regards to game modes and team format are not in any way shape or form nor will they ever be competitive.