Vampires shouldn't get stronger the more they feed.

ShadowHvo

driosketch wrote: »

They did say they were adding overt vampire acts to the bounty system, like they did with Necro.

I agree with that change, and I'm happy for it.

But that doesn't make me any less displeased that they're going against established TES canon.

Ratzkifal

I am currently researching on the matter as well because it struck me as odd too.
Let's hope they actually have an explanation for it that satisfies the lore but on the account of some vampires getting stronger when they feed, the only thing I found on it so far is that they stop regenerating when they don't feed, which is also what's happening in ESO right now.

Ratzkifal

LukosCreyden wrote: »

If this goes against lore (which it doesn't, not entirely) then I am willing to accept it. Lore exists to serve the game and with this, being a vampire will finally, FINALLY mean more than just "ooh magicka passive". Excellent change, cannot wait.

It does the game a disservice if it takes away what sets it apart from other games and franchises. That TES vampires become stronger when they don't feed at the trade-off of being easily recognized and unable to heal their wounds is a detail that makes this game special.

Ravena

I'm petty and I won't turn vampire because it makes my beautiful cat look ugly. I know skins exist but most of them make the character look completely different as well.

Hopefully they finally add a way to avoid the corpse look.

LadyNalcarya

This was always kinda weird to me. I mean, it theory it sounds like a cool and unique system. But... Whenever we meet a powerful vampire, there is blood everywhere, torture devices and stuff so it seems like they actually feed a lot, but that doesnt make them any less deranged.
There was also a vampire that was comatose because she refused to drink blood, I think it was count Hassildor's wife. She didn't go feral or anything, it just made her super weak.

ShadowHvo

Ratzkifal wrote: »

LukosCreyden wrote: »

If this goes against lore (which it doesn't, not entirely) then I am willing to accept it. Lore exists to serve the game and with this, being a vampire will finally, FINALLY mean more than just "ooh magicka passive". Excellent change, cannot wait.

It does the game a disservice if it takes away what sets it apart from other games and franchises. That TES vampires become stronger when they don't feed at the trade-off of being easily recognized and unable to heal their wounds is a detail that makes this game special.

I love you @Ratzkifal, for I agree 100%. People just seem to want TES vampirism to be like literally any mordern vampire fiction.

SpiderKnight

It's pretty clear based on your op, and your replies you actually, in-fact, know very little about vampire lore in tes.
Thanks, btw, you got comic book guy's voice stuck in my head now.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

😒 to vampires being stronger when not well fed got to remember vampires there is over 100% strains each each one works differently. Volkihar and Oblivion vampires might have acted that way because Molag Bal desired it. But this is Lamae's vampirism and Molag Bal is shown to have no control over this one. After all we do get to fight him as a vampire and Lamae hates both Arkay and Molag Bal. Lamae gets stronger with each vampire that is a member of her bloodline I doubt Molag Bal does. So days of not feeding and benefiting from it are over! You want to be a vampire got to be vampire.! Not feeding time is over vampire go back to feeding the way your meant too! *Imperial guards voice*

You clearly do not know how diseases, or vampirism have worked throughout the games nor the lore.

Nowhere imaginable have we seen ANY display of a progenitor CHOOSING their abilities. It's a GIFT/CURSE from Molag Bal. He may not even know how it works, but that doesn't validate your claims.

They're turning Elder Scrolls Vampires into boring standard INSERT ANY POPULAR VAMPIRE FICTION rather than the unique representation that it have had in Elder Scrolls canon and video games.

What is unique about the vampires still is they are not undead but unliving that will not change. Vampires can eat, drink, drown that is shown and I doubt will change throughout the various games. Your right they are unique. Just not in the way you think they are. They are mortals with a curse that alters the body into a death like state. They are not reanimated corpses or act like the d&d vampires do. They have inverted the tropes with them. All they are doing is make it so they are stronger when well fed does not change the fact if your a vampire hoping to explore underwater your going to drown just like any other typical mortal. Because you are an unliving being. Sorry you think your undead think again.

As nouns the difference between undeath and unlife
is that undeath is the state of being undead (D&D Vampire/Undead always evil) while unlife is a state of being that is not life (but may resemble it). (Elder Scrolls Vampire/Unlife Not always evil)

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This was always kinda weird to me. I mean, it theory it sounds like a cool and unique system. But... Whenever we meet a powerful vampire, there is blood everywhere, torture devices and stuff so it seems like they actually feed a lot, but that doesnt make them any less deranged.
There was also a vampire that was comatose because she refused to drink blood, I think it was count Hassildor's wife. She didn't go feral or anything, it just made her super weak.

They could in theory snack on it lightly, without actually drinking enough to sate their monstrous desires. Or, you know... torture and main for their sadistic urges.

After all, seeing that the blood is on the floor, walls and furnishings kinda indicates that they're not drinking it.

Hassildor's wife is correct, and thats one of the many odd discrepancies in TES lore. I know that many within the roleplay community assume it to be a trait of Porphyric Hemophilia.

Cirantille

I always found it absurd that vampires get stronger when they starve

You are full of blood, ready to use your powers make more sense

LadyNalcarya

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This was always kinda weird to me. I mean, it theory it sounds like a cool and unique system. But... Whenever we meet a powerful vampire, there is blood everywhere, torture devices and stuff so it seems like they actually feed a lot, but that doesnt make them any less deranged.
There was also a vampire that was comatose because she refused to drink blood, I think it was count Hassildor's wife. She didn't go feral or anything, it just made her super weak.

They could in theory snack on it lightly, without actually drinking enough to sate their monstrous desires. Or, you know... torture and main for their sadistic urges.

After all, seeing that the blood is on the floor, walls and furnishings kinda indicates that they're not drinking it.

Hassildor's wife is correct, and thats one of the many odd discrepancies in TES lore.

Yeah, but Volkihar vampires, for example, are some of the strongest and yet..

Inval1d

Let's remember ESO's vampirism is the Sanguivoria Noxophilica, while they are actually other diseases in other TES games, like Sanguinare Vampiris and the Porphyric Hemophilia.
Different diseases, different effects and symptoms. ESO's vampire doesn't get hurt by the sun, to start with.

Linaleah

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

On the plus side, vampires won’t need to wear a skin anymore to not look hideous since you will want to stay fed.

from what i understood, you look more human if you do NOT feed. the more you feed, the more monstrous you become.

Royaji

You know, those Bosmers were complaining a lot about the lore too. Look how that turned out in the end.

Also how many of "Bosmers racials are wrong because of lore!" guys are happy with this vampire rework (which is definitely against the lore) just because it provides the kind of gameplay they are looking for?

ZonasArch

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Considering that not only does the most popular vampire mod for skyrim do exactly this, it's something that people have been asking for since the beginning since as it stands right now there's zero point in feeding. Everyone I know just gets to level 4 and leaves it there...the whole feeding mechanic might as well not even exist in the game.

I fed once to see what it was. That's it. I'm in for a more proactive approach to vampirism, should you choose not to drink those bloody maras.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

What is unique about the vampires still is they are not undead but unliving that will not change. Vampires can eat, drink, drown that is shown and I doubt will change throughout the various games. Your right they are unique. Just not in the way you think they are. They are mortals with a curse that alters the body into a death like state. They are not reanimated corpses or act like the d&d vampires do. They have inverted the tropes with them. All they are doing is make it so they are stronger when well fed does not change the fact if your a vampire hoping to explore underwater your going to drown just like any other typical mortal. Because you are an unliving being. Sorry you think your undead think again.

You're literally wrong, but ok.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Arena:_Undead
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Undead_(Daggerfall)

It was with morrowind that vampirism was changed to its own enemy category.

ESO Vampires even have the Undeath passive, and so too do people claim it in several ingame lore books. Often referred to as a state of undeath.

Ratzkifal

SpiderKnight wrote: »

It's pretty clear based on your op, and your replies you actually, in-fact, know very little about vampire lore in tes.
Thanks, btw, you got comic book guy's voice stuck in my head now.

@SpiderKnight care to make an actual argument that's supporting this claim? In all the Elder Scrolls games that had stages of vampirism, vampires would become stronger the less they fed, but also attacked on sight by guards if completely starved.

Thevampirenight

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

What is unique about the vampires still is they are not undead but unliving that will not change. Vampires can eat, drink, drown that is shown and I doubt will change throughout the various games. Your right they are unique. Just not in the way you think they are. They are mortals with a curse that alters the body into a death like state. They are not reanimated corpses or act like the d&d vampires do. They have inverted the tropes with them. All they are doing is make it so they are stronger when well fed does not change the fact if your a vampire hoping to explore underwater your going to drown just like any other typical mortal. Because you are an unliving being. Sorry you think your undead think again.

You're literally wrong, but ok.

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Arena:_Undead
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Undead_(Daggerfall)

It was with morrowind that vampirism was changed to its own enemy category.

ESO Vampires even have the Undeath passive, and so too do people claim it in several ingame lore books. Often referred to as a state of undeath.

Well that is because of common belief and superstition. Many can't tell the difference between vampirism or necromancy and the lore clearly states they are considered by many to be what the d&d vampire is a reanimated corpse. When in reality they are inverted and the opposite from a d&d vampire. While undead are considered false life. Vampires got to be considered a form of false death. Do to how the condition has worked. The passive should be called Unliving fortitude.
It is unique that many think of them like d&d vampires when clearly they are not.

I believe they did it this way to move away from the common d&d and vampire tropes. As the first two games were basically a home brewed d&d campaign that changed with Morrowind. So they moved away from it.

Anhedonie

Who cares, relax. ESO disrespects TES lore on a daily basis, it's time to get used to it and just roll with it.

ShadowHvo

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This was always kinda weird to me. I mean, it theory it sounds like a cool and unique system. But... Whenever we meet a powerful vampire, there is blood everywhere, torture devices and stuff so it seems like they actually feed a lot, but that doesnt make them any less deranged.
There was also a vampire that was comatose because she refused to drink blood, I think it was count Hassildor's wife. She didn't go feral or anything, it just made her super weak.

They could in theory snack on it lightly, without actually drinking enough to sate their monstrous desires. Or, you know... torture and main for their sadistic urges.

After all, seeing that the blood is on the floor, walls and furnishings kinda indicates that they're not drinking it.

Hassildor's wife is correct, and thats one of the many odd discrepancies in TES lore.

Yeah, but Volkihar vampires, for example, are some of the strongest and yet..

We don't nessecarily know if the Volkihar is some of the strongest vampires in TES existence, the vampire lord form of the first and second generation of Volkihar is certainly a giant boon, yet that has just, with this update, been given to the noxiphilic sanguivoria too.

I'm giving you a awesome though, for that delightful image.

Dusk_Coven

ZOS doesn't answer to a 3rd party for their intellectual property.
They make their own lore so they can spin it however they need.

Just look at all the weird mounts and pets. Marketing thought it was cool so in it goes.

Ratzkifal

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

😒 to vampires being stronger when not well fed got to remember vampires there is over 100% strains each each one works differently. Volkihar and Oblivion vampires might have acted that way because Molag Bal desired it. But this is Lamae's vampirism and Molag Bal is shown to have no control over this one. After all we do get to fight him as a vampire and Lamae hates both Arkay and Molag Bal. Lamae gets stronger with each vampire that is a member of her bloodline I doubt Molag Bal does. So days of not feeding and benefiting from it are over! You want to be a vampire got to be vampire.! Not feeding time is over vampire go back to feeding the way your meant too! *Imperial guards voice*

You clearly do not know how diseases, or vampirism have worked throughout the games nor the lore.

Nowhere imaginable have we seen ANY display of a progenitor CHOOSING their abilities. It's a GIFT/CURSE from Molag Bal. He may not even know how it works, but that doesn't validate your claims.

They're turning Elder Scrolls Vampires into boring standard INSERT ANY POPULAR VAMPIRE FICTION rather than the unique representation that it have had in Elder Scrolls canon and video games.

What is unique about the vampires still is they are not undead but unliving that will not change. Vampires can eat, drink, drown that is shown and I doubt will change throughout the various games. Your right they are unique. Just not in the way you think they are. They are mortals with a curse that alters the body into a death like state. They are not reanimated corpses or act like the d&d vampires do. They have inverted the tropes with them. All they are doing is make it so they are stronger when well fed does not change the fact if your a vampire hoping to explore underwater your going to drown just like any other typical mortal. Because you are an unliving being. Sorry you think your undead think again.

As nouns the difference between undeath and unlife
is that undeath is the state of being undead (D&D Vampire/Undead always evil) while unlife is a state of being that is not life (but may resemble it). (Elder Scrolls Vampire/Unlife Not always evil)

@Thevampirenight Sorry but you are wrong there.
From "Vampires of the Illiac Bay I"

My trip back to the knightly order was a five day journey. I decided to get some rest early to get my arm in better shape in case I found any more trouble. I can't remember the dreams I had that night -- only that I was doing something horrible and I couldn't stop myself. I woke up screaming. The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

xaraan

No, makes no sense for them to get more powerful the less the feed. This is a good change.

They might get more desperate and act more beastial, but that doesn't translate into sheer power.

Thevampirenight

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ShadowHvo wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

😒 to vampires being stronger when not well fed got to remember vampires there is over 100% strains each each one works differently. Volkihar and Oblivion vampires might have acted that way because Molag Bal desired it. But this is Lamae's vampirism and Molag Bal is shown to have no control over this one. After all we do get to fight him as a vampire and Lamae hates both Arkay and Molag Bal. Lamae gets stronger with each vampire that is a member of her bloodline I doubt Molag Bal does. So days of not feeding and benefiting from it are over! You want to be a vampire got to be vampire.! Not feeding time is over vampire go back to feeding the way your meant too! *Imperial guards voice*

You clearly do not know how diseases, or vampirism have worked throughout the games nor the lore.

Nowhere imaginable have we seen ANY display of a progenitor CHOOSING their abilities. It's a GIFT/CURSE from Molag Bal. He may not even know how it works, but that doesn't validate your claims.

They're turning Elder Scrolls Vampires into boring standard INSERT ANY POPULAR VAMPIRE FICTION rather than the unique representation that it have had in Elder Scrolls canon and video games.

What is unique about the vampires still is they are not undead but unliving that will not change. Vampires can eat, drink, drown that is shown and I doubt will change throughout the various games. Your right they are unique. Just not in the way you think they are. They are mortals with a curse that alters the body into a death like state. They are not reanimated corpses or act like the d&d vampires do. They have inverted the tropes with them. All they are doing is make it so they are stronger when well fed does not change the fact if your a vampire hoping to explore underwater your going to drown just like any other typical mortal. Because you are an unliving being. Sorry you think your undead think again.

As nouns the difference between undeath and unlife
is that undeath is the state of being undead (D&D Vampire/Undead always evil) while unlife is a state of being that is not life (but may resemble it). (Elder Scrolls Vampire/Unlife Not always evil)

@Thevampirenight Sorry but you are wrong there.
From "Vampires of the Illiac Bay I"

My trip back to the knightly order was a five day journey. I decided to get some rest early to get my arm in better shape in case I found any more trouble. I can't remember the dreams I had that night -- only that I was doing something horrible and I couldn't stop myself. I woke up screaming. The next night, at an inn a little closer to my destination, my sleep was deep and dreamless. On the third night, I died.

Got to remember half the lore was tossed out from daggerfall and changed and most of the lore was tossed out of arena they did what they are doing to Vampires. They revamped the lore so to speak. They even retconned poor Reymon Ebonarm.

Siohwenoeht

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

This was always kinda weird to me. I mean, it theory it sounds like a cool and unique system. But... Whenever we meet a powerful vampire, there is blood everywhere, torture devices and stuff so it seems like they actually feed a lot, but that doesnt make them any less deranged.
There was also a vampire that was comatose because she refused to drink blood, I think it was count Hassildor's wife. She didn't go feral or anything, it just made her super weak.

If you're referring to the Oblivion questline, yes she refused to drink blood, but the coma was self-induced, not related to the lack of drinking blood.

ShadowHvo

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well that is because of common belief and superstition. Many can't tell the difference between vampirism or necromancy and the lore clearly states they are considered by many to be what the d&d vampire is a reanimated corpse. When in reality they are inverted and the opposite from a d&d vampire. While undead are considered false life. Vampires got to be considered a form of false death. Do to how the condition has worked. The passive should be called Unliving fortitude.
It is unique that many think of them like d&d vampires when clearly they are not.

I've read every piece of TES vampire lore, including played every one of the games, including the mobile spin-offs.

Not once have I ever seen the games suggest that Vampirism isn't a form of undeath. The only example that I can think of is Lawrence Schick referencing vampires as shapeshifters. Which, ironically enough, was towards the very question that I submitted for his lore article.

Can you perhaps share your sources? I say this without foul, for I'm open to having my mind changed, if you're correct. But until then, I'll keep being mad pissy over these changes that fundamentally destroy the vampire experience that I've always sought after in a TES video game.

CaffeinatedMayhem

As someone who dislikes being a vampire for PvP, I'm interested in these changes. Since "undeath" may no longer be a stat boost, I may get to go back to being mortal, and not having to wear a skin to cover vampirism. Win-Win in my book.

I think it will be great for people who are into vampires.

logarifmik

Missed it on the stream, but if this is true... Well, I mean... That sucks.

ShadowHvo

ZonasArch wrote: »

OP is on a personal crusade to hate on this expansion and this is kinda sad.

OP, you know you can *not* buy this, right? Just saying... You're not pissing on my parade! I'm hyped and happy and excited and I'll most definitely pre order this and if I come across you, I'll make sure to tell you how much I love you, just to make you jelly of my happiness, since you seem so eager to ruin it for everyone just because you're sad.

Here's a life tip... Nobody likes when you drag them down to your hole of sorrow.

I'm sorry that I've invested over a years worth of total playtime on my beloved vampire character ALONE, and that I've actively supported this game since it's beta, never allowed my subscription to fall for a single day, only to witness them take the one lore element that I care the uttermost about, and utterly bring it to ruin.

I'm so, so very sorry, that I cannot sit there with you and be joyful over a change that directly contradicts and ruins the unique representation of TES vampirism.

doomette

I was only half watching the stream (was playing at the same time 😳 ) so I didn’t catch the particulars, so I’m pretty much pulling this hypothesis out my butt: maybe because they aren’t mad with hunger, maybe they have more control over themselves and their abilities? Less absolute strength, but more controlled so more powerful?