Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
ZOS! 1 billion+ GOLD LAUNDERING !! - (it was, now 1.25 billion+) please prioritize it.
-
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.
You're missing the point. If you're a gold seller, you want to be selling this sort of thing reasonably frequently, not at the rate it would take to make $100M in the game legit (and certainly not at the effort it takes to do so).Edited by Mr_Walker on December 19, 2019 1:29AM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
Sounds great @ZOS_GinaBruno but could we have some stats? No need to name names, but how about a count of the number of accounts that action was taken on, and a count of what types of action were taken?
Otherwise honestly it sounds like a lot of smoke and mirrors just like your promise to sanction accounts that exploited the costume glitch.
6 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭GrigorijMalahevich wrote: »Next time you decide to do it - do it on a vendor that is in the most unpopular place ever with only “inside” people in the guild.
This is what makes me wonder if gold duping isn't at play. To bot-farm enough to make the billions of gold, you're talking about having a LOT of accounts (almost certainly 50+). Were I to do this, I would have all my "lot" of accounts in one guild, grab a cheap out of the way trader, invite my new friend and trading partner to the guild, and have at it, keep it all nice and quiet.
Also, if it's from bots mat farming, then those mats have to be converted into gold. That is a truly staggering amount of raw mats.
Edited by Mr_Walker on December 19, 2019 1:45AM1 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bloodraven187 wrote: »To be fair ZOS has ways to investigate complaints like these, but unless they know to look their monitoring teem is overseeing billions of mails, transactions,trades and chat messages. They have to actually be tipped off to a specific thing to find it about 90% or more of the time because of the sheer volume of information/data so sift through, and search parameters can only go so fast to find key words or phrases. So, yes it is their job, but no, don't expect them to be omniscient. running those jobs still requires search parameters to search against being entered manually and takes system resources on the server to run. So it is unfeasible to leave them running constantly, even if they had a way to do that in the first place.
Finding items that are "overpriced" by a bit, or minor scale intelligent money laundering, yes, much data analysis. Clumsy attempts such as this? Basic, basic stuff.1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
It says also if You discover inconsistencies. Certain inconsistencies were discovered and there is in fact evidence proving those sales are inconsistent when compared to other sales of the same items. Fact that certain item that have average price of 100g suddenly is being sold for 10M means there is huge inconsistency there.Edited by Juhasow on December 20, 2019 11:59AM12 -
Waynerx8✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
Yes and people did discover (or other) suspicious pricing, therefore it needs reporting, not hard to graspEdited by Waynerx8 on December 19, 2019 3:08AM12 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zeni is unlikely to take any action on this. They should, but they won’t. They’ve never has much interest in looking into reported TOS violations. It’s a “we’ll do that if we ever have free time” situation.
I stand corrected.
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche6 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
I have no other words. thank you kindly. I wish you have a good journey on Tamriel.
WTB evidence PC EU
GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac11 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
Edited by Idinuse on December 19, 2019 10:17AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?2 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?
It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!
Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?
If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.
I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?
sorry for all the trouble mate, I wish you a good travel in tamrielGM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac4 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭This has been going on for quite some time. Reporting specific players, complete with screen caps of written confessions didn't help either. Why now?0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This has been going on for quite some time. Reporting specific players, complete with screen caps of written confessions didn't help either. Why now?
Because we're supposed to believe this is brand new information to ZOS. Since we're bringing hidden things to light today, ESO performance is terrible.1 -
deleted008293✭✭✭✭Because this sooner or later can destroy everything. It can destroy economy ingame, as people with too much gold can monopolize certain market elements. This can can push people away as they won't be able to keep up with pricing demands, or low stock of items. It can destroy the game as ZOS won't receive funds from players anymore as they prefer to go "elsweyr" to buy crowns, gold, ingame items.
Play fair like everyone else does.2 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭If real life money laundering could be handled so easily London and NYC would implode.forever stuck in combat2 -
Octopuss✭✭✭✭✭Could someone explain what the original posts talks about? Because I don't understand what's going on.0
-
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭So did they ever figure out why these guys were making these strange transactions?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »So did they ever figure out why these guys were making these strange transactions?
Presumably yes, given Gina's post about rolling out a fix to prevent continuation. I'm not sure they'll tell us anything more about the details.8 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Could someone explain what the original posts talks about? Because I don't understand what's going on.
Its pointing out the extremely suspicious amounts one or more players were listing common mats/items for. Since it is rather unlikely that a player would be willing to pay 998,625ish gold for one Surile grape [9,998,752 gold for 10], or 49,933ish for *a* Jute [9,998,752 for a stack], a green maple restoration staff of frost for 9,998,752 gold; "transactions" like these could be players who bought gold from a goldseller site "laundering" the gold, hopefully flying under ZOS's radar by using the transactions to pick up the gold from the seller.5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Could someone explain what the original posts talks about? Because I don't understand what's going on.
The TLDR:
The sales in the original post aroused the suspicions of players in that trading guild because the sale prices are far, FAR in advance of the sold item's value. In the past, that sort of sale (high amount of gold for a low value item) has been indicative of players selling gold for real currency which is against the TOS - the sales are the in-game part of the trade.
So the players in that guild reported it to ZOS.
(The rest of the thread focuses largely on questioning what's happening/explaining what we think is happening and debating over whether or not the sales were worth reporting to ZOS.)
ZOS followed up on it, as detailed in Gina's post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6507796#Comment_6507796ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
So we're still not sure exactly what was going on with the gold and sales, since ZOS tends to be tightmouthed about discipline and exploits for obvious reasons. On the other hand, its clear enough that something against the TOS was going on, and the suspicious sales did indeed warrant a report to ZOS.
Hope that helps.7 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »So did they ever figure out why these guys were making these strange transactions?
You do realize that if these "strange" transactions were illegal, ZOS isn't going to say anything about it, right? They don't allow naming/shaming, they don't say "the idiots who dressed like the Klan and ran around Craglorn firebombing Redguards were banned", they won't say "the people in the guilds that people identified bought gold from goldsellers" and were banned.
You're one of the ones who didn't even want it investigated in the first place because you didn't think there was anything "strange" about someone willing to pay almost 10 million gold for grapes. Why be interested in what was to you apparently a normal transaction?12 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
I have no other words. thank you kindly. I wish you have a good journey on Tamriel.
WTB evidence PC EU
Yep np, evidence goes a long way. Physical evidence.0 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭nordmarian wrote: »Because this sooner or later can destroy everything. It can destroy economy ingame, as people with too much gold can monopolize certain market elements. This can can push people away as they won't be able to keep up with pricing demands, or low stock of items. It can destroy the game as ZOS won't receive funds from players anymore as they prefer to go "elsweyr" to buy crowns, gold, ingame items.
Play fair like everyone else does.
"People with too much gold".....subjectivity is fun!0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
I have no other words. thank you kindly. I wish you have a good journey on Tamriel.
WTB evidence PC EU
Yep np, evidence goes a long way. Physical evidence.
I find it extremely funny that you are still going on about players needing hard evidence in order to report their suspicions to ZOS, when ZOS already took the reports, investigated then, and took the appropriate actions, thanking the players who reported it.
Clearly, ZOS was just fine with the reports that were made, even though those reports didn't contain proof or physical evidence of TOS-breaking activity.19 -
Synaki✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Clearly, ZOS was just fine with the reports that were made, even though those reports didn't contain proof or physical evidence of TOS-breaking activity.
If Goregrinder could have his way those reporting players would have been banned and the cheaters would continue cheating, unfettered.13 -
Heatnix90✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone acting like zos banning a few gold sellers is going to change anything. Given how cheap this game is it'll be a few days before they're back up and running again.
So uh yeah, grats on swatting down like 4 rats out of hundreds.3 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
I have no other words. thank you kindly. I wish you have a good journey on Tamriel.
WTB evidence PC EU
Yep np, evidence goes a long way. Physical evidence.
I find it extremely funny that you are still going on about players needing hard evidence in order to report their suspicions to ZOS, when ZOS already took the reports, investigated then, and took the appropriate actions, thanking the players who reported it.
Clearly, ZOS was just fine with the reports that were made, even though those reports didn't contain proof or physical evidence of TOS-breaking activity.
Yeah if ZOS takes action against the reported, the reporter should not be punished, which is the case here. But falsy accusing someone is a pretty big deal, or am I wrong on that? If not, I guess I will start reporting every single player I see, and call the police on everyone I see and report that they al robbed a bank.1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Clearly, ZOS was just fine with the reports that were made, even though those reports didn't contain proof or physical evidence of TOS-breaking activity.
If Goregrinder could have his way those reporting players would have been banned and the cheaters would continue cheating, unfettered.
Just because your character is poor in game compared to other players, does not mean you have been cheated.0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.
It says if you discover....which means you have evidence of something.
I have no other words. thank you kindly. I wish you have a good journey on Tamriel.
WTB evidence PC EU
Yep np, evidence goes a long way. Physical evidence.
I find it extremely funny that you are still going on about players needing hard evidence in order to report their suspicions to ZOS, when ZOS already took the reports, investigated then, and took the appropriate actions, thanking the players who reported it.
Clearly, ZOS was just fine with the reports that were made, even though those reports didn't contain proof or physical evidence of TOS-breaking activity.
Yeah if ZOS takes action against the reported, the reporter should not be punished, which is the case here. But falsy accusing someone is a pretty big deal, or am I wrong on that? If not, I guess I will start reporting every single player I see, and call the police on everyone I see and report that they al robbed a bank.
Oh the false equivalency of extremists... Laughable as an argument.10
This discussion has been closed.