Maintenance for the week of November 25:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 25, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 7:00AM EST (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – November 27, 6:00AM EST (11:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC)
ZOS! 1 billion+ GOLD LAUNDERING !! - (it was, now 1.25 billion+) please prioritize it.
-
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.9 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.
They would only be banned if they falsely accuse someone. If they accurately accuse someone with tons of physical evidence, then there is no problem with that.
Cancel culture needs to stop, false accusations need to be minimized and be punished.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.
They would only be banned if they falsely accuse someone. If they accurately accuse someone with tons of physical evidence, then there is no problem with that.
Cancel culture needs to stop, false accusations need to be minimized and be punished.
Not at all. They are merely reporting a suspicion and considering we as players do not have access to the information to be absolutely certain someone did something wrong the idea literally would be a chilling effect on reporting wrong doing. That is a certainty.
What needs to stop is cheaters, hackers, and exploiters. Zos should encourage players to report suspicions. Not what you are suggesting.
Edit: besides, this is not cancel culture. Not even close to it. No one has called anyone out as OP did not provide any names in those SS. They merely brought it to the attention of Zos to investigate. Lets use accurate terms.Edited by idk on December 19, 2019 12:06AM17 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
I totally agree..
I also agree that it should be the same who motivates these types of actions by looking the other way.
Now @Goregrinder I think you are stopping me to do something written in TOS .
Also you are acting against community rules by directly pointing to "me" where I show no @ID or anything else.
You cannot do that sir.GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac12 -
Nicky33✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.
They would only be banned if they falsely accuse someone. If they accurately accuse someone with tons of physical evidence, then there is no problem with that.
Cancel culture needs to stop, false accusations need to be minimized and be punished.
Okay, you think that buying tons of crap for 600m gold in one day is a normal practice and there can't be anything illegal behind this. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
https://tenor.com/1Jur.gifEdited by Nicky33 on December 18, 2019 8:20PM7 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »SammiSakura wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom ZOS_GinaBruno this is still happening! They keep applying to guilds, then adding a second account in, the proceeding to list and buy mundane stuff at ridiculous prices. We are kicking and blocking as fast as we can, but theyre just making new accounts. Please can something be done about this? we are keeping screenshots and logs of names as much as we can
In the meantime, have you considered temporarily restricting your guild invite privileges so they cannot add the second account? That sucks for the guild members who are using it responsibly, but it might help.
That is quite problematic now, when guild finder exists. Technically even if all trade guilds would agree and limit their recruiting even further during the time when recruiting is already slow, that would make it harder for launderers to join actual trading guild, but that won't stop them joining in random social/PvP/PvE/RP guilds, which got 50+ members and just enough people to get store open and continue internally trading.
As long as ZOS do nothing, we can't do much about the problem. These cases which were reported by GMs are only a top of iceberg and unfortunately there isn't much what guilds can do about it.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but simple line of "we are investigating the issue" would be something nice to hear from their side.
The question remains, why is it the job of any Player, let alone Guildleader to try to stop these things from happening? It's already more than enough that it's coming to light because of those determined few. Why do they have to be jury, judge and executioner?
Its not their job. And anyone asking guild leaders what they are doing to stop this is shamelessly attempting to shift the blame off of ZOS for not taking a harder stance on bots and gold sellers.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus1 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »karthrag_inak wrote: »where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?
@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.
But if they are getting the 8 or 9 figure sums by legitimate in-game means, then there is no need to launder said gold ...
@karthrag_inak
Oh, totally agree. You just seemed a little shocked at the amounts, was simply pointing out that it's not that much. I really see only two possible explanations of why you would list a potato (or whatever the cheap item is) for millions of gold:
1. You are trying to inflate guild sales for whatever reason. Doesnt make a lot of sense in this range, but for example, maybe you need to hit a weekly sales goal. List an item for stupid price and buy it or have a friend buy it, funnels money to the guild, you hit your goals, etc.
Even more plausible at these values, perhaps there were crown sales being done via guild chat and the buyer or seller (or both) wanted their guild to get a cut. Sell crowns for X amount of gold, but rather than a straight transaction, you buy/sell junk and the guild gets a cut. The buyers and sellers also benefit if there are sales/purchase requirements for the guild, and assuming you both care about remaining in the guild, you have a transaction history for disputes.
2. You are an illegal gold seller, and it's straight "laundering". Although, this frankly doesnt make a lot of sense to me either. If ZOS is on their game enough to monitor gold transactions via mail from a clear gold seller to other players, you would think this would be even easier to track if its all in a guild chat history. I honestly don't see how anything actually gets laundered.
3 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerThanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.60 -
OsManiaC✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
YOU ALL AWESOME.
Just please and please post more. I always think we are left alone.GM of The Argonian Kebab, The Argonian Steak & The Argonian BBQ - PC - EU (The Tamriel Kitchen) @OsManiaC
Don't worry, the tail grows back!
if it breathes we eats. #justbosmerthings - we can detect stealth boy NPCs and hunt them thanks to our skill!
https://steamcommunity.com/id/osmaniac16 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »karthrag_inak wrote: »where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?
@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.
but to maintain this (if they are selling gold) they have to get figures that high routinely. I have low 8 figures in gold, and it is far from my main pursuit and i could see an easy way to triple that amount if i made a serious go at it, with 18 master crafters, i have mats out the wazoo. but to get 100s of millions routinely, repeatedly, just seems hard to fathom, outside of it being some kind of gold exploit.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.3 -
JN_Slevin✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!
But i have to ask.
Does that mean it was an exploitable issue somewhere in the system?...have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.Edited by JN_Slevin on December 18, 2019 8:56PMWork hard, and you will be rewarded. Spend wisely, and you will be comfortable. Never steal, or you will be punished.7 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
very cool, ty.
and this sort of insinuates that some kind of nefarious process was at play, probably in the actual synthesis of the gold itself that needed to be laundered.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.2 -
Bloodraven187✭✭✭To be fair ZOS has ways to investigate complaints like these, but unless they know to look their monitoring teem is overseeing billions of mails, transactions,trades and chat messages. They have to actually be tipped off to a specific thing to find it about 90% or more of the time because of the sheer volume of information/data so sift through, and search parameters can only go so fast to find key words or phrases. So, yes it is their job, but no, don't expect them to be omniscient. running those jobs still requires search parameters to search against being entered manually and takes system resources on the server to run. So it is unfeasible to leave them running constantly, even if they had a way to do that in the first place.3
-
Gariele✭✭✭✭✭That’s really great to hear. How about the guilds that was used to launder this gold. Should they treat the gold like when the multi bidding bugged? Hate to see some good people get in trouble for other malicious activitiesEdited by Gariele on December 18, 2019 8:58PMPC/EUWinter Rose Autumn Rose Summer Rose Pacific Rose Midnight RoseRoseESO DiscordRoseESO Website6 -
Fiktius✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.THANK YOU!
5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
Good to hear that Zos does look into these matters. It shows that players reporting suspicious behavior is appropriate.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »But i have to ask.
Does that mean it was an exploitable issue somewhere in the system?...have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
It would seem there was exploit or else there would not be a need to roll out a fix.
It does bring to light that it is better and appropriate to report an exploit when one discovers it instead of utilizing it for personal gain. One is beneficial to the game and the other is deserving of Zos taking action.3 -
JN_Slevin✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
Good to hear that Zos does look into these matters. It shows that players reporting suspicious behavior is appropriate.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »But i have to ask.
Does that mean it was an exploitable issue somewhere in the system?...have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
It would seem there was exploit or else there would not be a need to roll out a fix.
It does bring to light that it is better and appropriate to report an exploit when one discovers it instead of utilizing it for personal gain. One is beneficial to the game and the other is deserving of Zos taking action.
I agree, if there was an exploit "available" (i know, bad wording) they should keep it to themselves, but its quite complicated, because if it wasnt an exploit you can't just delete the gold....
(Im sorry i don't know how to fix that quoting...)
I did it 
Edited by JN_Slevin on December 18, 2019 9:07PMWork hard, and you will be rewarded. Spend wisely, and you will be comfortable. Never steal, or you will be punished.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.
I'm glad to see that the reports were both seen and acted on! Though it's sad that the results were as many of us feared - that something wasn't right with the situation. Its good to know that a fix is already in place for whatever happened.0 -
Urigall✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I honestly don't see how anything actually gets laundered.
Oreyn, A better term might be "conversion" Might not be case this time but much of the organised, gold farming is geared towards accumulating in-game gold then converting it into r/l money.
0 -
SammiSakura✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks to everyone for bringing this to our attention. We wanted to let you know we’re taking care of the offending accounts, and have already rolled out a fix to prevent this from continuing to happen.THANK YOU!
Seconded! I do wish we had a more reliable source of communication though really. I feel like this should have been picked up a couple of days ago. But we are very grateful
That’s really great to hear. How about the guilds that was used to launder this gold. Should they treat the gold like when the multi bidding bugged? Hate to see some good people get in trouble for other malicious activities
This is definitely an important question. We dont need a repeat of U23...Edited by SammiSakura on December 18, 2019 9:29PM@SammiSakura - EU Server - Here Since 14th October 2016
Visit my home at the Alinor Townhouse
Guildhall with All Set-Stations etc at my Seaveil Spire
Guildmaster of The Forbidden Guilds (PC EU)
~ The Forbidden Cleavage (in Alinor, Summerset)
~ Brave Cat Trade (in Leyawiin, Blackwood)
~ Daedric Baanditos (PvE/Social Guild, in random front row spots across Tamriel)
PM @SammiSakura In-Game for Invites.
Curator of Crown Black Market Crown Trading Discord
Click Here to Join & Start Trading Today!My Characters!
* Samara Nevanni - Dunmer MagDK DD (PvE/P) (Master Crafter)
* Adriana Silvani - Altmer MagSorc DD (PvE)
* Tsanji-Ko - Khajiit StamDen DD (PvE)
* Waits-For-Darkness - Argonian MagPlar Healer (PvE)
* Lilith Valeine - Breton MagPlar DD (PvP)
* Luna Rosalie - Bosmer StamBlade DD (PvP)
* Mithrandir the Healer - Nord Magden Healer (PvE)
* Talia Scythe-Song - Redguard Necro Tank (PvE)
* Loki the Theif - Khajiit MagBlade (PvE)1 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.
They would only be banned if they falsely accuse someone. If they accurately accuse someone with tons of physical evidence, then there is no problem with that.
Cancel culture needs to stop, false accusations need to be minimized and be punished.
this isn't cancel culture, this is someone reporting something very suspicious. there's a real, tangible and blatantly obvious difference.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.15 -
JJBoomer✭✭✭✭✭karthrag_inak wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »karthrag_inak wrote: »where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?
@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.
but to maintain this (if they are selling gold) they have to get figures that high routinely. I have low 8 figures in gold, and it is far from my main pursuit and i could see an easy way to triple that amount if i made a serious go at it, with 18 master crafters, i have mats out the wazoo. but to get 100s of millions routinely, repeatedly, just seems hard to fathom, outside of it being some kind of gold exploit.
like i said before, to earn 1 billion gold legitimately, here is the math.
ESO has been out for 5 years. 365 days x 5 (years) is 1,825 days. 1,000,000,000/1825 = 547,945.
someone would have to pull in at least 547,945 gold PER DAY, every day for 5 years. so unless these people are pulling in MULTPLE millions of gold PER DAY (24 hours) all year round, there is no way to legitimately make this much gold just like that. Math does not lie, but people certainly do. And this that we're seeing is almost certainly 99.9% fraudulent gold laundering. Stop defending it or trying to rationalize it and call a spade a spade.Edited by JJBoomer on December 18, 2019 10:06PM6 -
karthrag_inak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭karthrag_inak wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »karthrag_inak wrote: »where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?
@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.
but to maintain this (if they are selling gold) they have to get figures that high routinely. I have low 8 figures in gold, and it is far from my main pursuit and i could see an easy way to triple that amount if i made a serious go at it, with 18 master crafters, i have mats out the wazoo. but to get 100s of millions routinely, repeatedly, just seems hard to fathom, outside of it being some kind of gold exploit.
like i said before, to earn 1 billion gold legitimately, here is the math.
ESO has been out for 5 years. 365 days x 5 (years) is 1,825 days. 1,000,000,000/1825 = 547,945.
someone would have to pull in at least 547,945 gold PER DAY, every day for 5 years. so unless these people are pulling in MULTPLE millions of gold PER DAY (24 hours) all year round, there is no way to legitimately make this much gold just like that. Math does not lie, but people certainly do. And this that we're seeing is almost certainly 99.9% fraudulent gold laundering. Stop defending it or trying to rationalize it and call a spade a spade.
i certainly was neither defending nor rationalizing it.PC-NA : 19 Khajiit and 1 Fishy-cat with fluffy delusions. cp3600
GM of Imperial Gold Reserve trading guild (started in 2017) since 2/2022
Come visit Karth's Glitter Box, Khajiit's home. Fully stocked guild hall done in sleek Khajiit stylings, with Grand Master Stations, Transmute, Scribing, Trial Dummies, etc. Also has 2 full bowling alleys, nightclub, and floating maze over Wrothgar.0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.
LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:
It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.
I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.
It does not sound like a very smart idea to tell the player base they could be banned for reporting questionable behavior. Does not make much sense as it does not harm anyone.
They would only be banned if they falsely accuse someone. If they accurately accuse someone with tons of physical evidence, then there is no problem with that.
Cancel culture needs to stop, false accusations need to be minimized and be punished.
If someone make a false accusation, yes they should be punished. Just remember , making a false accusation is not the same as making an accusation that later turns out to be incorrect.
that should also apply to people that defend cheating, making false claims to try and cover up cheating. those should also be punished.
2 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@UrigallOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I honestly don't see how anything actually gets laundered.
Oreyn, A better term might be "conversion" Might not be case this time but much of the organised, gold farming is geared towards accumulating in-game gold then converting it into r/l money.
Yeah, laundering is simply not an appropriate term. It's not like there is a tax collector in ESO. I guess what I still struggle with is why would you need to do such a thing as a gold seller? I dont want to get a ban for talking about gold selling, but I don't really see how this would be helpful to a hypothetical gold seller. You would think you would want as little record of the transaction as possible. I would guess that in most instances, you buy gold from some shady website, get an ingame message, meet under some dirty bridge in deshaan and do a trade. The only possible record of that would be screen shots from the buyer or seller or whatever ZOS has server side. Seems like "laundering" money via a guild trader is just a good way to get caught IMO, because all your guild mates have access to the transactions, which certainly raise some eyebrows.
0 -
Urigall✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Yeah, laundering is simply not an appropriate term. It's not like there is a tax collector in ESO. I guess what I still struggle with is why would you need to do such a thing as a gold seller? I dont want to get a ban for talking about gold selling, but I don't really see how this would be helpful to a hypothetical gold seller. You would think you would want as little record of the transaction as possible. I would guess that in most instances, you buy gold from some shady website, get an ingame message, meet under some dirty bridge in deshaan and do a trade. The only possible record of that would be screen shots from the buyer or seller or whatever ZOS has server side. Seems like "laundering" money via a guild trader is just a good way to get caught IMO, because all your guild mates have access to the transactions, which certainly raise some eyebrows.
I don't know much detail about how the transfer works Oreyn. One method is apparently by email transfer. Online brokers describe how to do it so there is less risk of being caught. And face to face meeting - as you mention - is another. Latter might seem iffy but the online brokers probably act in an escrow role, until both buyer and seller confirm the contract has been completed.
As for the listing of items at bonkers prices, that does seem ultra unwise. I've only seen possible examples of this once or twice and I used to spend a lot of time visiting traders. This method probably relies on quick footwork to list the item and get it sold before anyone is any the wiser. But this wasn't one item being listed; it was into double figures iirc. Only a bit less obvious than standing in Vivec and shouting like a carny barker.
1 -
D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I see no evidence of ToS being broken with what I see.
I see things that would imply that the ToS may have been broken in the past; aka circumstancal evidence.
So unless you have evidence of the act in which the ToS being broken with; I do not see how ZoS could take action
Good point. Only ZoS can investigate and make a judgement towards it.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I see no evidence of ToS being broken with what I see.
I see things that would imply that the ToS may have been broken in the past; aka circumstancal evidence.
So unless you have evidence of the act in which the ToS being broken with; I do not see how ZoS could take action
Good point. Only ZoS can investigate and make a judgement towards it.
Which ZOS did, found that something was going on, and took the action they deemed appropriate.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6507796#Comment_6507796
So the circumstantial evidence was indeed sufficient to be reported, and wisely so.16 -
tim99✭✭✭✭✭i'm nearly just about to place some pots for the same price, in hope the buyer dont doublecheck the sellers name everytime and just buy mine, too...
1
This discussion has been closed.