ZOS! 1 billion+ GOLD LAUNDERING !! - (it was, now 1.25 billion+) please prioritize it.

Dusk_Coven

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

The only legit case i've seen of stuff being sold overpriced at a guild trader was when we were helping building the guild hall, buying overpriced white item to give the house decorator the gold to mass buy writs / stations . But we were nowhere that price range...

What was the reason that you couldn't just open a trade with the person and give them the gold? Why waste gobs of it on the Guild Store fee?

scorpion20

How does this affect your gameplay and fun ? I mean sure it is not ok but ultimately you can play your own game without being bothered by this.

Royaji

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

The only legit case i've seen of stuff being sold overpriced at a guild trader was when we were helping building the guild hall, buying overpriced white item to give the house decorator the gold to mass buy writs / stations . But we were nowhere that price range...

What was the reason that you couldn't just open a trade with the person and give them the gold? Why waste gobs of it on the Guild Store fee?

The same can be asked about goldselling through the guild store though. Why waste so much gold on fees and expose your transactions to the world if you can just trade in person or send a mail with gold attached?

Skwor

scorpion20 wrote: »

How does this affect your gameplay and fun ? I mean sure it is not ok but ultimately you can play your own game without being bothered by this.

No you can't. This impacts the economy which affects everyone. It impacts me greatly as I play the economy meta game of trade guilds. Gold farmers and sellers very much impact how I play the game.

Skwor

Royaji wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

KyraCROgnon wrote: »

The only legit case i've seen of stuff being sold overpriced at a guild trader was when we were helping building the guild hall, buying overpriced white item to give the house decorator the gold to mass buy writs / stations . But we were nowhere that price range...

What was the reason that you couldn't just open a trade with the person and give them the gold? Why waste gobs of it on the Guild Store fee?

The same can be asked about goldselling through the guild store though. Why waste so much gold on fees and expose your transactions to the world if you can just trade in person or send a mail with gold attached?

It is called money-laundering for a reason. A simple trade transaction has flags that alert ZEN when large amounts are traded that way. I know from personal experience, trading large amounts of gold in the past for guild transactions have gotten me tells from game masters inquiring about such trades.

Buying low end items for large amounts of gold apparently do not have the same flags / alerts attached to track.

VaranisArano

scorpion20 wrote: »

How does this affect your gameplay and fun ? I mean sure it is not ok but ultimately you can play your own game without being bothered by this.

If its legit, it doesn't.

If its not, then it directly impacts the trading guilds through which they are funneling the gold, and quite possibly the players in those guilds if ZOS decides they need to remove the problem gold as has happened in the past. Those guilds got a fair bit of guild tax from the transaction and have a responsibility to the rest of their members to make sure that the suspicious trades are reported to ZOS.

Its not like this is a personal trade between two players. By going through trading guilds, the sellers/buyers made it a potential problem for a number of people.

Nicky33

Okay, this topic has nearly 10k views and over 150 responses, which means that quite a significant part of the community thinks that the issue is important. Can we have at least a short response from any community manager that the issue is being investigated? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober

Czekoludek

ZonasArch wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

JJBoomer wrote: »

lol @ the people defending this. Either you are in on it, or were planning to try it yourself. Defending this clearly blatant gold selling/laundering is absolutely ridiculous. We're talking billions of gold here. The only way to legitimate obtain 1 billion gold is if you made 547,945 gold, PER DAY, over the course of 5 years. And I mean everyday, for 5 straight years. And this is starting to stretch into the multiple billions. its not feasible in a legitimate way.

There is clearly mass scale botting happening, or 3rd party gold selling, both disrupt the in game economy in a very harmful way. Both violate the ToS. Both are a scumbag moves. Defending that only signals to guilt, or a desire to participate in the bad behavior. period.

Cani wrote: »

Even if this happens in every starter Zone. So Khenartis Roost (1), Bleakrock (2), Stros M'Kai (3), Bal Foyen (4) and Betnikh (5), this would STILL take approx. 2 Years to get to that amount. And thats with 14 Bots in EVERY starter Zone, which NOT take away each others notes, running around EVERY second of EVERY day!

I dont even know what you are saying..

You guys either can't make gold or seriously underestimate how much can be made very easily, 550k a day is literally a doddle.

I can do 2-2.5M gold in 4 hours - Imagine what someone who didn't have a job or any other interests could be doing.

I've had a 6M~ day (that's was as much as I could take before boredom) so you could be doing 10M a day with ease if you were motivated; It's not even a year at 5m a day and that's based on a single account making the gold.

Granted they're probably not using the same methods but still, this didn't take them 5 years to generate.

I call BS. Not just BS. I call big fat pile of BS.

Which bit?

ALL of it
About all this gold you can make in 4 hours. I used to hang out and around the biggest money makers in PC NA, and they would literally only make a couple million PROFIT per week. If that. Slaes maybe in the 8-10mi range. And these were the big fishes.

Well you can earn that from high level carries (vCR+3, vAS+2, vBRP etc).
But while this is the best way to earn gold in the game, i don't know any guild that is able to do carries like that conisitently every day. Not enough clients on the market to do it with 2-2.5m profit everyday. Maybe while REALLY good week you could sell carries like that for one whole week but yeah. Profitable? Yes. Consistent or even important in this discussion? I don't think so

Fiktius

Czekoludek wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

JJBoomer wrote: »

lol @ the people defending this. Either you are in on it, or were planning to try it yourself. Defending this clearly blatant gold selling/laundering is absolutely ridiculous. We're talking billions of gold here. The only way to legitimate obtain 1 billion gold is if you made 547,945 gold, PER DAY, over the course of 5 years. And I mean everyday, for 5 straight years. And this is starting to stretch into the multiple billions. its not feasible in a legitimate way.

There is clearly mass scale botting happening, or 3rd party gold selling, both disrupt the in game economy in a very harmful way. Both violate the ToS. Both are a scumbag moves. Defending that only signals to guilt, or a desire to participate in the bad behavior. period.

Cani wrote: »

Even if this happens in every starter Zone. So Khenartis Roost (1), Bleakrock (2), Stros M'Kai (3), Bal Foyen (4) and Betnikh (5), this would STILL take approx. 2 Years to get to that amount. And thats with 14 Bots in EVERY starter Zone, which NOT take away each others notes, running around EVERY second of EVERY day!

I dont even know what you are saying..

You guys either can't make gold or seriously underestimate how much can be made very easily, 550k a day is literally a doddle.

I can do 2-2.5M gold in 4 hours - Imagine what someone who didn't have a job or any other interests could be doing.

I've had a 6M~ day (that's was as much as I could take before boredom) so you could be doing 10M a day with ease if you were motivated; It's not even a year at 5m a day and that's based on a single account making the gold.

Granted they're probably not using the same methods but still, this didn't take them 5 years to generate.

I call BS. Not just BS. I call big fat pile of BS.

Which bit?

ALL of it
About all this gold you can make in 4 hours. I used to hang out and around the biggest money makers in PC NA, and they would literally only make a couple million PROFIT per week. If that. Slaes maybe in the 8-10mi range. And these were the big fishes.

Well you can earn that from high level carries (vCR+3, vAS+2, vBRP etc).
But while this is the best way to earn gold in the game, i don't know any guild that is able to do carries like that conisitently every day. Not enough clients on the market to do it with 2-2.5m profit everyday. Maybe while REALLY good week you could sell carries like that for one whole week but yeah. Profitable? Yes. Consistent or even important in this discussion? I don't think so

You are right, it doesn't matter how much gold you make per day one way or another, as long as the method used is legit.
Simply there is no need to launder gold which have been earned fair way.

Something important which people should in general keep in mind with this case:

- Potential trade guild leaders who earned this much gold by fair way over years would have 0 reasons to launder the gold.
- Even if this gold would've been earned by an army of bots, it would still take very long time to gather these amounts in question. (More discussion about how long it would take can be found from above in this thread already)
- Even if someone would have been that desperate to buy + 1,25 billion gold via crowns, they would have zero reasons once again push that through guild stores, because crown trading is allowed. Tax cut in guild stores is higher than common middleman fees are in crown trading discords, so once again transferring gold from account to another just for pure crown trading would be more expensive and very stupid option to do.

Those billions laundered through guild stores are 100 % questionable and there is no way around it, that's just a fact.

EmEm_Oh

6 pages in and I don't see anyone giving a good case for something against ZOS's TOS. It's a lot of gold, yes, but just because they have a lot, doesn't mean it's violating TOS. I just buy what I need, don't sell that often, etc., but if somebody would be kind to break down the typical transaction they think is violating TOS (specifics on what is done and it's reflected in the screenshots or any screenshot with that much gold), please do. I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head.

Urigall

Anyone who wants to read up on the subject of gold farming/selling, should search out work by Professor Richard Heeks of Manchester University. Although his paper, titled "Gold Farming: Real-World Production in Developing Countries for the Virtual Economies of Online Games" dates from 2008, the content is probably still relevant today. After reading it, one starts to understand that bots aren't one or two individuals making a few quid on the side - it's an industry. His paper is floating around online - using the paper's title in a search will pull it up as PDF. References in the paper are embedded as hyperlinks for anyone who wants to follow them up.

Almost impossible to eradicate because the rewards are just too tempting; particularly in low wage economies. Knock down 20 bots/farmers and another 20 will take their place. Can the staff cost of knocking out a few botters, only to see others immediately take their place, be justified? Difficult question. The reality is that playing whack-a-mole with botters is probably a hiding to nothing. Shutting the brokers down would probably take out a significant part of the trade. But the brokers' websites are outside of the legal jurisdication of the games publishers.

I doubt whether much can be done about it. The bots are simply the symptoms of something that is both entrenched and organised. Taking down bots requires deployment of resources without addressing the over-arching infrastructure of gold farmers/bots. Take out 20 bots today and they'll be replaced tomorrow. That's the reality of the matter.

About the only option for gaming companies is identifying the in-game transfers. ZoS's staff might then have to follow up scores of transfers every day. If that option was workable it would have been implemented long ago.

xWarbrain

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

6 pages in and I don't see anyone giving a good case for something against ZOS's TOS. It's a lot of gold, yes, but just because they have a lot, doesn't mean it's violating TOS. I just buy what I need, don't sell that often, etc., but if somebody would be kind to break down the typical transaction they think is violating TOS (specifics on what is done and it's reflected in the screenshots or any screenshot with that much gold), please do. I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head.

The only people that would have screenshots of what you're asking for are people that would be violating the TOS.

The argument is that no one is spending 40 million gold on a stack of ruby ash wood. The only reason they would sell it for this price is because the person paying for the stack of wood is actually the gold-seller from a website, the wood seller paid cash for the 40 million.

If they just traded 40 million gold to the person who paid cash for it, it would be a red flag. Why can't it be a red flag if they buy something at a ridiculously absurd price? What ZoS needs to investigate is the transaction history of the person that has 40 million to spend on a stack of wood.

People with 40 million gold at their disposal can go buy up all of the crafting mats and completely change the economy. The only reason some people are able to get that amount is that they buy it through gold selling websites. People who have put the time in to legitimately earn 40 million can do it too, but there are far fewer of these people than there would be if ZoS would ban the gold sellers.

VaranisArano

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

6 pages in and I don't see anyone giving a good case for something against ZOS's TOS. It's a lot of gold, yes, but just because they have a lot, doesn't mean it's violating TOS. I just buy what I need, don't sell that often, etc., but if somebody would be kind to break down the typical transaction they think is violating TOS (specifics on what is done and it's reflected in the screenshots or any screenshot with that much gold), please do. I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching their head.

In the past, this type of transaction (low value item for extremely high amounts of gold) has been the in-game portion of TOS-violating gold-selling for real currency which happens out-of-game.

Now, we players are not going to have proof of the whole thing. In game, we can only see a part of it - namely the part that is extremely suspicious but also possibly legit. That's why its important to bring this to ZOS' attention, because they are the only ones who are actually equipped to investigate the out-of-game portion that violates the TOS. If this gold is being traded in game because someone paid real currency for it, that violates the TOS...but its on ZOS to investigate that once its brought to their attention.

Think of this thread saying "ZOS, there's an awful lot of smoke. You should go check whether or not there's fire."

Oreyn_Bearclaw

karthrag_inak wrote: »

where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?

@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.

Goregrinder

If I want to sell a Staff of Necropotence for 5m, that's my business. Someone out there may want to pay 5m for it, which is also none of your business.

Hamish999

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?

@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.

But if they are getting the 8 or 9 figure sums by legitimate in-game means, then there is no need to launder said gold ...

Goregrinder

Hamish999 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

karthrag_inak wrote: »

where are they getting all the gold that they need to launder? 100's of millions?

@karthrag_inak
It's just not that much gold if that is your focus, especially if bots are in play (not saying they are). I was never an active trader, but easily accumulated mid 8 figures in this game, and I spend/hoard like crazy. I knew multiple people (who I am fairly certain never used a bot) that were well into 9 figures, but of course, that was their focus.

But if they are getting the 8 or 9 figure sums by legitimate in-game means, then there is no need to launder said gold ...

You call it laundering, yet you have no evidence of anything other than people listing items and selling them for whatever price they want. But let's assume it's laundering, how exactly does it affect you?

January1171

Goregrinder wrote: »

If I want to sell a Staff of Necropotence for 5m, that's my business. Someone out there may want to pay 5m for it, which is also none of your business.

The fact that someone would be willing to pay 5M for a Staff of Necropotence may technically be possible, but is so incredibly unlikely it is probably something shady that is going on. And it is the business of everyone who sees it because you agreed to the TOS that you will not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax."

Not to mention the fact shady gold laundering does affect the in-game economy.

Drako_Ei

Goregrinder wrote: »

If I want to sell a Staff of Necropotence for 5m, that's my business. Someone out there may want to pay 5m for it, which is also none of your business.

You still have no idea about the context of this post

idk

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.

Urigall

January1171 wrote: »

The fact that someone would be willing to pay 5M for a Staff of Necropotence may technically be possible, but is so incredibly unlikely it is probably something shady that is going on. And it is the business of everyone who sees it because you agreed to the TOS that you will not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax."

Not to mention the fact shady gold laundering does affect the in-game economy.

Wasn't aware of the reporting requirement - thanks.

Many governments have legislation that requires (potentially) shady, financial activity to be flagged up. In the UK such reporting is done via what are called "suspicious transaction and order reports" One of the aims of the legislation is to identify potential money laundering. The US has similar legislation.

Goregrinder

January1171 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If I want to sell a Staff of Necropotence for 5m, that's my business. Someone out there may want to pay 5m for it, which is also none of your business.

The fact that someone would be willing to pay 5M for a Staff of Necropotence may technically be possible, but is so incredibly unlikely it is probably something shady that is going on. And it is the business of everyone who sees it because you agreed to the TOS that you will not "Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax."

Not to mention the fact shady gold laundering does affect the in-game economy.

Even if no one is willing to pay 5m for a Staff, there are no rules that state that I cannot list it for that price.

Goregrinder

idk wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.

I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.

Nicky33

Goregrinder wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

It is appropriate for a player to bring these concerned to Zos. It is up to Zos to look into it and see if they can find any wrong doing that is actionable. Petty bickering about it in the forums is meaningless as it serves no purpose. Well, none except to keep this thread active.

I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.

According to TOS players have to report all exploits or anything that looks like it. A 1-year ban could be issued to someone, who sees the duck, but pretends that he is looking in another direction.

January1171

Goregrinder wrote: »

Even if no one is willing to pay 5m for a Staff, there are no rules that state that I cannot list it for that price.

May I redirect you to the opening of my post?

January1171 wrote: »

The fact that someone would be willing to pay 5M for a Staff of Necropotence may technically be possible, but is so incredibly unlikely it is probably something shady that is going on.

Goregrinder wrote: »

I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.

Reporting someone you suspect of breaking TOS is literally in the TOS. They are not required to definitively prove it- it's ZOS's job to determine whether it is a actual cheating or not. Now, if they were naming and shaming/harrassing, then a ban might be in order. But OP blocked out any identifying details, so they're not doing that.

Goregrinder

January1171 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Even if no one is willing to pay 5m for a Staff, there are no rules that state that I cannot list it for that price.

May I redirect you to the opening of my post?

January1171 wrote: »

The fact that someone would be willing to pay 5M for a Staff of Necropotence may technically be possible, but is so incredibly unlikely it is probably something shady that is going on.

Goregrinder wrote: »

I feel like if ZOS investigates, finds no wrong doing, than the accuser should be punished for false accusations. A 1-year ban should be good for first time offenders.

Reporting someone you suspect of breaking TOS is literally in the TOS. They are not required to definitively prove it- it's ZOS's job to determine whether it is a actual cheating or not. Now, if they were naming and shaming/harrassing, then a ban might be in order. But OP blocked out any identifying details, so they're not doing that.

Yes, the TOS says you should report someone you suspect is doing something against TOS. I would hope that it implies reporting with physical evidence, not just "well I feel they are probably doing something wrong". That's why if the accused is acquitted of all charges by ZOS, the accuser should face a penalty. If the accused is found guilty, the accuser should not be punished in anyway.

Because if you report with enough physical evidence, ZOS should come to no other conclusion than foul play right? Your physical evidence should do all the talking.

Synaki

It is quite telling that some want to push an agenda that would make players refrain from reporting fishy activities by means of intimidation.

GrigorijMalahevich

Next time you decide to do it - do it on a vendor that is in the most unpopular place ever with only “inside” people in the guild.

P.S. Damn, what a catch though, interesting - who needs so much gold, does it mean that those 300kk purchases are made by “bot farmers” group giving the gold to “gold sellers”?

Fun stuff

Sanguinor2

Goregrinder wrote: »

You'd have to provide physical evidence that it is related to any kind of illegal activity. Inferring something without evidence, is something that can be dismissed without evidence.

Yeah no thats not how it works. If you have enough grounds to be suspicious you can report it to the relevant authorities, you are not required to become a private Investigator and produce Recordings, Pictures and Videos as evidence, that is the Task of whatever authority you bring your warranted suspicion to.
In this case you are actually required to report suspicious activity by the TOS you agreed to, nowhere does it state that you have to break into the Office of Zos to procure the relevant data and in Addition hack the Network of the Person you have suspicions About to verify or falsify those.

Goregrinder

Ackwalan wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Nicky33 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

Nicky33 wrote: »

Goregrinder wrote: »

If I want to sell a Staff of Necropotence for 5m, that's my business. Someone out there may want to pay 5m for it, which is also none of your business.

Yeah, and if some government structure pays 10x of the market price for the service or goods, its just their business and can't be related to any kind of corruption, sure.

You'd have to provide physical evidence that it is related to any kind of illegal activity. Inferring something without evidence, is something that can be dismissed without evidence.

No, you are wrong. E.g. if a politician can't explain from where he got the money to purchase a villa in Mexico, he is considered to be guilty - no evidence is needed.

According to what law and what legal case?

Just stop, you look the fool.

Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who looks the fool?

It's not even good trolling. Your argument is so thin it can't be stretched out to cover even the most extreme possibilities.

"...E.g. if a politician can't explain from where he got the money to purchase a villa in Mexico, he is considered to be guilty - no evidence is needed..."

...was your argument. I am asking you to provide evidence on why you think that is how the law works. Your evidence was calling me a fool and stating that my argument against it is thin.

One last time. Even tho the politician example was not mine, I'll use it. Politician has an annual income of 150K, he has a book deal for 300K so in total he has 450K. Now he goes out and buys a Villa, with cash, for 12 million. His income does not match his expenses, that is proof of his illegal activity.

Now lets say that same Politician has a side job of selling grapes. He sells these grapes for 5 million a pound, yet he has no vineyard, doesn't even have sales record where he buys low and sells high. That again is proof of illegal activity.

The OP has already posted several screen shots showing selling things for a price no one would buy at. More then enough proof of illegal activity.

Having unexplainable income is not itself proof of breaking the law. All you have shown is a grape vendor that owns no vineyard, with 5 million in his bank, and are saying "Clearly there is no way this could happen unless he was doing some illegal activities your honor...therefore I motion to Lock him up your honor, case closed...".

Basically your argument is that since there is no way for you to explain how X amount of dollars are in his account, it is automatically foul play and the law has been broken, no question about it. That's basically how you are saying the law works.