ZOS! 1 billion+ GOLD LAUNDERING !! - (it was, now 1.25 billion+) please prioritize it.

Numerikuu

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

Not sure if very naive, or defending these actions due to personal participation.

dcam86b14_ESO

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business.

No.

Good luck going to trial with that defense. lol.

Bam_Bam

Cani wrote: »

How in the world are those people getting this amount of gold? I do not understand it.

Top tier guild traders have more than this.

PizzaCat82

Thank god we don't have exploiters like that on consoles.

idk

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

I expect the person was swindled and spent good money on fake potions . Either way it seems as long as they do not think the issue affects them they could care less. Sadly it does effect everyone if those SS are due to illegitimate actions.

rumple9

It's gold sellers.

To be honest I don't really see a problem with people wanting to buy in game gold from a third party company with cash, although if it gets out of hand it could cause hyper-inflation in the game economy if there is a vast increase in money supply, but I doubt this would happen

Emma_Overload

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

Synaki

Emma_Overload wrote: »

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I deem these prices (and that some other party actually pays them) sufficient proof of gold selling.

Emma_Overload

Synaki wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

I deem these prices (and that some other party actually pays them) sufficient proof of gold selling.

Except you haven't proven anything. You're just jumping to conclusions. For all you know, these accounts are all owned by the same person, and they're just shuffling funds between accounts. Why would they do this? Who knows? Who cares? It's none of our business, in my opinion.

ku5h

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

So you have zero problem when one of this guys go and buys off entire servers stock of mats and then resells them for 300% more!? Well i do!
This type of behavior is forcing me to grind gold/mats instead of playing what i want. Why? Because stack of pots cost me 25k now, when it used to be 10k.
If you have no problem with that, then i would assume you're one of them.

Sanguinor2

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Except you haven't proven anything. You're just jumping to conclusions. For all you know, these accounts are all owned by the same person, and they're just shuffling funds between accounts. Why would they do this? Who knows? Who cares? It's none of our business, in my opinion.

Those Images are enough to be very suspicious and call for zos to investigate.
If These accounts were owned by the same Person and they were just intending to Shuffle funds why would they just not mail it to themselves and instead do it out in the open like this? Especially when we had a Prior case of massive amounts of Gold being laundered?

rpa

If you notice something that you think is suspicious or against TOS, just report it. Whether ZoS takes action or not is up to them. Discussing it here is pretty pointless.

MajBludd

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

WiseSky

Its just somebody trying to get the radiant apex mount, 1.25 Billion is how much gold to crown crates it takes...

agegarton

I’m not convinced that this equates to gold selling (or laundering as has been suggested).

If it is, it’s the most ham-fisted way of selling gold in the game. It’s the most traceable transaction, therefore not very smart. It’s also expensive as for every transaction, there’s a guild trader deduction of about 8%. Gold sellers tend to be a bit smarter, or they go out of business quickly!

It might be gold fishing though (attempting to sell something for a very high price in the hopes that some player will not notice / mis-click / etc.) It might also be the way some people are paying for carries. It could be how a player is transferring gold from one account to another if he believes he’ll “get caught” emailing it. Finally, it could also be how someone meets their sales target or looks like a great trader in a guild (fake a sale via another account or with a buddy).

I wonder, do any / many of these items actually sell?

WilliamESO

WiseSky wrote: »

Its just somebody trying to get the radiant apex mount, 1.25 Billion is how much gold to crown crates it takes...

Sometimes I opened for 12 M of crates for 1 radiant Apex or 7 M or 5M but never only 1.25M 1:1 rate

Emma_Overload

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

JN_Slevin

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Cani wrote: »

How in the world are those people getting this amount of gold? I do not understand it.

Top tier guild traders have more than this.

Well, yes, but the top tier traders got that by doing business for years, its not like if you own a trading guild, that you get magically 500m guild thrown in your direction. Its hard work to get to this amount. And if it was gained legitimately then why do they need to launder it. There are way easier ways to get gold from one account to another. This is just a VERY loud / public way to make gold "useable" or whatever.

It is really concerning that, that amount is with someone who feels the need to hide it.

Ysbriel

Now we just need an organizational chart.

Nyladreas

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

Emma_Overload

Nyladreas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

I've already posted my reason for posting on this topic above, so I'll simply quote myself:

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

JKorr

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

I've already posted my reason for posting on this topic above, so I'll simply quote myself:

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

Going by your replies, however, you don't want anyone to investigate anything to *get* the proof there is something illegal going on. If something seems to be really wrong, like someone selling a bunch of grapes for a million gold, questioning it so ZOS will investigate is actually rather reasonable. If ZOS gets the proof, then they decide on the consequences. If everyone ignores everything that doesn't personally touch them, then the illegal crap will continue. No one is waving pitchforks and torches; bringing this to ZOS's attention is reasonable. Your constantly saying "No, don't say anything if you see problematic behavior" isn't really reasonable.

Numerikuu

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

Except there is, in the form of the screenshots shown in OP's post.

I've worked the GM field in past MMO's and the things shown in OP's screenshots is without a doubt 100% gold laundering. There may also be something else going on as well (duping/exploit abuse)

These things do need to be taken seriously, and swiftly acted upon, because they can ruin in-game economies.

P.S: I get why you're being so defensive, however, the only person you should be defending is yourself. Assuming you have not participated in the above, there is no need for the defensiveness. You can relax.

Juhasow

daemonios wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

I have no idea what I'm seeing here, the first two pictures aren't even showing the same data as the third one. I mean, those values seem really high, but the top seller in the first pic has an average item price of around 4k gold, while the second averages around 100k and the third even higher at 125k. You can't get any average from the second picture because there's no total items, and the third picture seems to show transactions at far above market prices but that tells me very little.

Honest question, can someone explain what's up?

I added a detailed screenshot, you can see the ridiculous amounts per items

Thanks, and sorry for nitpicking. The values in your new picture, and the fact that they're for trivial items (the ones in your original picture were at least semi-rare), do raise a lot of red flags.

fact that there were 2 persons both having ~700M sales was already raising some questions. Most propably those are 2 accounts bying stuff from one another.

Emma_Overload

JKorr wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

I've already posted my reason for posting on this topic above, so I'll simply quote myself:

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

Going by your replies, however, you don't want anyone to investigate anything to *get* the proof there is something illegal going on. If something seems to be really wrong, like someone selling a bunch of grapes for a million gold, questioning it so ZOS will investigate is actually rather reasonable. If ZOS gets the proof, then they decide on the consequences. If everyone ignores everything that doesn't personally touch them, then the illegal crap will continue. No one is waving pitchforks and torches; bringing this to ZOS's attention is reasonable. Your constantly saying "No, don't say anything if you see problematic behavior" isn't really reasonable.

I hear what you're saying, I just tend to err on the side of caution in these cases. Selling a bunch of grapes for 1M gold DOES look kind of weird. But since when is doing something weird a crime? One thing I've learned in life is that other people do strange things all the time, for reasons that I couldn't even begin to understand.

I don't like nosy neighbors or tattle-tales in real life, so I guess that's why I don't like them in games, either. With ESO in particular, I think my caution should be heeded, because ZOS has a sad history of issuing blanket bans that sweep up innocent players as well as the guilty. I think it's better to let the crooks go free than punish the innocent by mistake.

Heatnix90

ITT casuals are mad that people with IRL cash are choosing to spend it to become wealthy ingame.

karthrag_inak

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like nosy neighbors or tattle-tales in real life, so I guess that's why I don't like them in games, either. With ESO in particular, I think my caution should be heeded, because ZOS has a sad history of issuing blanket bans that sweep up innocent players as well as the guilty. I think it's better to let the crooks go free than punish the innocent by mistake.

see something, say something. Foundation of -civilized- society, in a game or in r/l. "tattle-tales"? lol seriously?

VaranisArano

Emma_Overload wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

I've already posted my reason for posting on this topic above, so I'll simply quote myself:

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

Going by your replies, however, you don't want anyone to investigate anything to *get* the proof there is something illegal going on. If something seems to be really wrong, like someone selling a bunch of grapes for a million gold, questioning it so ZOS will investigate is actually rather reasonable. If ZOS gets the proof, then they decide on the consequences. If everyone ignores everything that doesn't personally touch them, then the illegal crap will continue. No one is waving pitchforks and torches; bringing this to ZOS's attention is reasonable. Your constantly saying "No, don't say anything if you see problematic behavior" isn't really reasonable.

I hear what you're saying, I just tend to err on the side of caution in these cases. Selling a bunch of grapes for 1M gold DOES look kind of weird. But since when is doing something weird a crime? One thing I've learned in life is that other people do strange things all the time, for reasons that I couldn't even begin to understand.

I don't like nosy neighbors or tattle-tales in real life, so I guess that's why I don't like them in games, either. With ESO in particular, I think my caution should be heeded, because ZOS has a sad history of issuing blanket bans that sweep up innocent players as well as the guilty. I think it's better to let the crooks go free than punish the innocent by mistake.

Don't think of it like nosy neighbors. For one thing, addons like MM make that sale available for everyone in guild to see. Its not nosy when everyone using MM selling or buying those items in the guild can see the price change.

Think of it like Trading Guild officers doing a weekly audit.

That's quite literally what most PC guilds do if they have sales requirements. They use add-ons like MM to check member sales to make sure people meet the minimum sales requirements.

Those sales and the guild tax it generates? Those are extremely abnormal for a regular trading guild. Its the sort of thing that makes an auditor go O.O!

But does that suspicion warrant a report to ZOS?
YES.
Reason 1: sales of that sort have been linked to gold-selling for real money in the past, which is against the TOS. That warrants a report to ZOS so they can investigate.
Reason 2: the guild got a ton of guild tax from those sales. The last thing they want is to get nailed by ZOS if something isn't right - which is also something we've seen recently when some players had gold removed after apparently normal purchases because the gold was (unknown to them, presumably) attached to problematic occurrences.

Trading Guilds have solid reasons to be suspicious of this behavior and to report it to ZOS.

Emma_Overload

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

And, i have yet to see anything legitimate sell for more than 2 or 3 million. And those are a few certain rare items. It would not take much to stop these stupid high sales. Or ban people based on these sales until they make their case they are a legitimate player.

LOL do you hear yourself? In civilized societies, the burden of proof is on the accusers. Why should some random player have to prove their innocence? What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This is exactly the kind of behaviour I've seen in this thread, and I'm right to condemn it. Now the mob is coming after me:

Waynerx8 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OsManiaC wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

So what? Why are you snooping on other peoples transactions in the first place?

It would be great of all the busybodies on these forums did something useful like ban that crook in Rawlkha who keeps selling fake Spell Power Pots. Now THAT is a lynch mob I would be happy to join!

Sorry, I could not understand your post. You want us to look the other way when suspicious activities happening?

If other peoples' activities are not clearly causing a problem, then it's a good idea to mind your own business. I don't see anything in these screenshots that indicates a problem.

I then pointed out that time and energy would be better spent banning an actual SCAMMER. What's hard to understand about that?

I confess I'm rather curious as to your alternate explanation for what's going on here where what's been shown isn't indicative of a problem.

We do know from past disciplinary actions that transactions like these have been linked with gold-selling from outside sites. While it's possible that these are completely innocent sales of Surilie Grapes for nearly 10 million, that's also the sort of sale that would raise eyebrows in any trading guild I've been in on PC. (And don't even go "mind your own business" because for trading guilds on PC, checking member sales is literally part of the business for any guild with sales requirements.)

Note that ZOS does prohibit buying and selling gold in exchange for anything in the real world as against the TOS. Pointing out transactions like these are a good first step, allowing ZOS to investigate further to find out if its legit or there's something else going on.

Well said, you would have to question someone's motives for thinking this is innocent or normal practice, you would really need a Surilie Grapes fetish at those prices.

The more you speak the more you look like you had some personal involvement with the people that are being accused.

It just doesn't make sense why would you or anyone want to defend them in this case. It's actually really strange and suspicious that you seem to have such interest in keeping their names clean.

I wouldn't have said anything if you only mentioned your concern, however, you seem rather overly defensive here.

Nothing personal, it's just how it makes you look. I mean not to paint you wrongly.

I've already posted my reason for posting on this topic above, so I'll simply quote myself:

Emma_Overload wrote: »

MajBludd wrote: »

@Emma_Overload I find people who generally get up in arms over an activity that is shady or illegal, are tied up in it some way or another.

You protest too much.

You’re welcome to look at all my past posts on similar matters. I frequently state the same types of opinions that I have posted in this thread. I tend to stand up for the rights of the accused, because I was once unjustly accused myself. Remember the so-called XP exploit that occurred in the Imperial City a while back? Although I was eventually exonerated by ZOS staff, I will never forget what a humiliating experience that was.

I am all for banning cheaters and exploiters when indisputable proof has been provided. No such proof has been presented here, so don't expect me to endorse your vigilantism.

Going by your replies, however, you don't want anyone to investigate anything to *get* the proof there is something illegal going on. If something seems to be really wrong, like someone selling a bunch of grapes for a million gold, questioning it so ZOS will investigate is actually rather reasonable. If ZOS gets the proof, then they decide on the consequences. If everyone ignores everything that doesn't personally touch them, then the illegal crap will continue. No one is waving pitchforks and torches; bringing this to ZOS's attention is reasonable. Your constantly saying "No, don't say anything if you see problematic behavior" isn't really reasonable.

I hear what you're saying, I just tend to err on the side of caution in these cases. Selling a bunch of grapes for 1M gold DOES look kind of weird. But since when is doing something weird a crime? One thing I've learned in life is that other people do strange things all the time, for reasons that I couldn't even begin to understand.

I don't like nosy neighbors or tattle-tales in real life, so I guess that's why I don't like them in games, either. With ESO in particular, I think my caution should be heeded, because ZOS has a sad history of issuing blanket bans that sweep up innocent players as well as the guilty. I think it's better to let the crooks go free than punish the innocent by mistake.

Don't think of it like nosy neighbors. For one thing, addons like MM make that sale available for everyone in guild to see. Its not nosy when everyone using MM selling or buying those items in the guild can see the price change.

Think of it like Trading Guild officers doing a weekly audit.

That's quite literally what most PC guilds do if they have sales requirements. They use add-ons like MM to check member sales to make sure people meet the minimum sales requirements.

Those sales and the guild tax it generates? Those are extremely abnormal for a regular trading guild. Its the sort of thing that makes an auditor go O.O!

But does that suspicion warrant a report to ZOS?
YES.
Reason 1: sales of that sort have been linked to gold-selling for real money in the past, which is against the TOS. That warrants a report to ZOS so they can investigate.
Reason 2: the guild got a ton of guild tax from those sales. The last thing they want is to get nailed by ZOS if something isn't right - which is also something we've seen recently when some players had gold removed after apparently normal purchases because the gold was (unknown to them, presumably) attached to problematic occurrences.

Trading Guilds have solid reasons to be suspicious of this behavior and to report it to ZOS.

OK, now that's a reasonable argument. I can see why the guild officers might want to investigate strange transactions, to prevent the guild from being associated with illegal activities.

Cpt_Teemo

Yeah no way in heck people would buy a stack of common mats for 9m gold lol