Wraithhome - a few things to consider.

bayushi2005

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

Just...stop giving them money then. Housing is one of their bread and butter money makers, because they know people will spend hundreds of real dollars on a fake house in a video game. They'll just keep churning stuff out to meet deadlines and quotas for events/updates, and gloss over any errors that they assume people won't care about.

I already spend much less than I used to, mostly due to ZoS' "we don't give a !#$%" attitude. I love them fake houses, but I have enough notables to work with for a year or two. Then I can just keep using the houses which are available for in game gold. I know all that.
It would be interesting, however, to see devs' faces when the housing community closes their wallets.

DUTCH_REAPER

Oh thank God it’s not just me who is OCD with this!!! My peoples.....I have found you

sittaraha1_ESO

Love the home but why so expensive for poor quality . I already own all DLCs and yet I am not going to pay so much for a home. Expansions don't even cost as much.

LadyAstrum

AJL32456 wrote: »

All in all, ESO is a fantasy game, and I think with that in mind, the community should be prepared to be more forgiving when the inside features don't match the outside features of a house. Imagination is a powerful tool, especially in a fantasy world.

Please don't think I didn't read your post just because I've cut it short for the sake of keeping the posts tidy. I'm glad you have high standards in your own work. But it makes sense to me to have those same high standards for others. I used build houses in a game called Landmark, that sadly went down the pan, and was able to sell a few of them for real money. I didn't dare release one that I felt was sloppy or had obvious mistakes, because as far as I was concerned people were paying real money and they deserved the best product.

Yes, all in all ESO is a fantasy game....but the money that keeps it running isn't. That money is real. ZoS is surely making a tidy sum from ESO, so it shouldn't be that high an ask that some of that goes back into ensuring a high-quality game.

We can agree to disagree.

Hymzir

Nearly all homes have these issues, and the larger the building is, the more it will have these discrepancies as a rule. There are few that have very little, like the base khajit style houses (Elsweyr buildings on the other hand, are utter rubbish.) and the smaller Redguard homes are mostly solid. Then there is, of course places like Mistveil manor (the house has a rectangular shape, yet the interior is t-shaped...) or Amanaya Lake lodge, where the two interiors, in addition to not matching the exterior must be in different dimensions, since they overlap with one another spatially.

It's almost like the people who design the interiors are not the same people who do the exteriors, and there is some sort of corporate policy in place that prevents the people from co-ordinating their works.Then there is the added annoyance of stuff not aligning. Those little things that would've only required a little bit of care and focus from the devs working on them.

One of those little bits of sloppy work, that has been greatly infuriating me as of late, is the one involving the Psijic manor. Thankfully, it was a freebie, and I did not have to pay for it. But it is a perfect example of the uncaring, no pride in your work, attitude the devs have towards housing. Expand the spoiler if you want a wall of pics detailing the issue...

It's a small thing, I know. But it looks just so bad when you start furnishign the place. That shelf is so obviously not aligned properly. It's an irritating detail of sloppy uncaring workmanship, that I could fix in less than a tenth of the time it took me to make those screenshots, if I had access to the editor or construction kit they use for level design. But this is not TES, this is ESO, and I can't mod away the careless errors of sloppy devs.

I mean, it wouldn't have to be pixel perfect, but it's not acceptable for it to have glaringly obvious error either. It is so obvious that any kind of inspection of one's work before submitting would've caught it. However, in ZOS land, standards are low, and quality does not matter.

To add insult to injury, there is the over fixation on worn down, busted and broken, and generally dirty and unkempt aesthetics, that ZOS people, for some ungodly reason, find sensible. Some of these features are just annoying, like the tendency of floors having tiles that are poking out, thus preventing nice placement of carpets, to the utterly ridiculous, like rubble and a broken crap lying around that you can't do jack squat about.

Like the broken statue rubble on the stairs leading up to the manor house at Serenity Falls Estate. I get the notion that one might not immediately get around to fixing the broken statue, but on would think that at least cleaning the rubble clogging the stairs would be something a sensible homeowner might do.

The thing though is, that people do notice these things. People do find them annoying. Threads like these pop up every few months and we go through the same motions. We note the same errors and sloppiness in implementation and nothing changes. ZOS still releases half-baked products and has the audacity to charge premium prices for their slob.

People were willing to give a pass on the first set of houses and their mistakes, but now, that we have had time to fiddle with housing mechanics, now that we have experienced time and time again, the frustration of careless placement of objects, the unpolished state homes are released, the constant mismatches between interiors and exteriors, we are starting to grow fed up with the lackluster effort shown by ZOS. And things like these are starting to become deal breakers.

Good enough is not good enough when you are charging over 100 bucks for some of these places.

Klemenziusb16_ESO

And they want 14.000 crowns for that - that's 84,99 € where I live.
You could buy a whole game for that and would still have some left.

bayushi2005

Hymzir wrote: »

The thing though is, that people do notice these things. People do find them annoying. Threads like these pop up every few months and we go through the same motions. We note the same errors and sloppiness in implementation and nothing changes. ZOS still releases half-baked products and has the audacity to charge premium prices for their slob.

Those little things that would've only required a little bit of care and focus from the devs working on them.

These two!
Personally, my sentiment towards ESO housing is waning rapidly due to these exact reasons. I've bought Wraithhome (while I know I shouldn't have), because it's as black as my heart (ultimate argument) and I know that I can make a decaying corpse look like a top model. It is, however, the very last crown store house I've purchased until ZOS makes their houses worth the price. I am absolutely fed up with the way ZOS treats paying customers.

LadySinflower

I honestly think that to get their attention and make them see there is a problem, sales would have to decline suddenly and rapidly. Those of us who see these flaws and are bothered that they're there are a small minority of their customer base. If we could somehow drastically change sales of their faulty products they might start paying more attention to detail. I already refuse to buy any house that is crowns- only or any crown store item over $25 after you convert crowns to dollars, so I'm not even one of the customers whose perspective would have to change. Any ideas to affect crown store ripoff charging are welcome here.

bayushi2005

LadySinflower wrote: »

I honestly think that to get their attention and make them see there is a problem, sales would have to decline suddenly and rapidly. Those of us who see these flaws and are bothered that they're there are a small minority of their customer base. If we could somehow drastically change sales of their faulty products they might start paying more attention to detail. I already refuse to buy any house that is crowns- only or any crown store item over $25 after you convert crowns to dollars, so I'm not even one of the customers whose perspective would have to change. Any ideas to affect crown store ripoff charging are welcome here.

Considering that I decided not to buy more houses of questionable quality, I can at least have fun previewing them on PTS, taking massive amount of screenshots, tagging the misaligned or other badly done areas, and posting all that on housing forum. I am more than happy to help with making informed choices *evil grin*

AJL32456

@Raideen thank you for the "critique" on my country's culture, that has really made my day... I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience with a few people from our United Kingdom, but by "not picking" on the UK, you inadvertently have picked on the UK, and that's not acceptable. You might claim to live to work, but others work to live. It is an individual's perspective and circumstances that determines that, not the country or culture that they're born into. The fact that you've generalised everyone in a country based off a few people, is another issue for another day.

@UntilValhalla13 you have reinforced my point from earlier. Thank you. A general rule I have: if it is defective before purchase, don't purchase it!

You all do realise that, by highlighting the problems and things you want adjusting/editing, you are unintentionally asking for these edits/changes/fixes to be made...

People make mistakes, computers do as they're programmed by people. Programmers work on computers to remove bugs, sometimes they miss some, sometimes they create others and we, the gamers, discover them and report them, and it gets fixed. That's how this works. It is an ever evolving project that has grown exponentially since launch, so you should expect things to be missed. Some things are however deliberate, and will remain, and that is something we as the customer should be prepared for. Yes it can be annoying, but it's our nature.

Yes communication can be a problem across all industries, I can say that, it's how it is dealt with that matters. Zenimax didn't create this very forum because they thought it'd be funny to watch us debate over issues and share opinions on elements such as this, to do nothing about it. It's here because they care as much as, if not more about this game than we do. So all I am saying is, we've highlighted a problem, debated on it. It is now up to Zenimax to take some time to come up with a solution that'll make us all happy. That may take more time than we would like, but we can only hope it will be fixed one day...

I think Zenimax have done an incredible job with this game so far, I believe their work ethic and methods of communication are on point, and I look forward to the next chapters of this ESO story.

Raideen

AJL32456 wrote: »

@Raideen thank you for the "critique" on my country's culture, that has really made my day... I'm sorry that you have had a bad experience with a few people from our United Kingdom, but by "not picking" on the UK, you inadvertently have picked on the UK, and that's not acceptable. You might claim to live to work, but others work to live. It is an individual's perspective and circumstances that determines that, not the country or culture that they're born into. The fact that you've generalised everyone in a country based off a few people, is another issue for another day.

SMH...playing the victim card is so passé.
First, its not "my observation" but a very real thing. Read about "moving to the UK and culture" and you will see most if not all saying that the UK people work to live, that is actually a flattering comment. It means the UK people cherish their time with friends and family enough to keep their work at a limit. People in the USA work more hours per week than any country in the world. This is why its said (not my words) that Americans live to work. It does not mean we do not cherish our off time, but it means that work is not done until it done.
There will be tradeoffs in this matter. Nothing I said was an insult nor meant to be but simple facts and observations from a plethora of people.

Instead of taking the approach that my critique is to cause harm (and being a victim), view my critique in a positive light, when you do it makes a lot more sense and when you do you will understand I am not "generalizing everyone in the country".

AJL32456 wrote: »

@UntilValhalla13 you have reinforced my point from earlier. Thank you. A general rule I have: if it is defective before purchase, don't purchase it!

Except that you can't preview the house in game and know what is removable/movable. It's impossible to know if its "defective".

AJL32456 wrote: »

You all do realise that, by highlighting the problems and things you want adjusting/editing, you are unintentionally asking for these edits/changes/fixes to be made...

And most of them, at least the ones I pointed out, in fact 100% of the ones I pointed out would not make a difference at all to how the house is furnished, outside of someones wall covering...but it would not affect the props in game, especially because they are allowed to clip.

AJL32456 wrote: »

People make mistakes, computers do as they're programmed by people. Programmers work on computers to remove bugs, sometimes they miss some, sometimes they create others and we, the gamers, discover them and report them, and it gets fixed. That's how this works. It is an ever evolving project that has grown exponentially since launch, so you should expect things to be missed. Some things are however deliberate, and will remain, and that is something we as the customer should be prepared for. Yes it can be annoying, but it's our nature.

...and? This is not something that needs to be said, I think most of us here are adults and understand this to the nth degree.

AJL32456 wrote: »

Yes communication can be a problem across all industries, I can say that, it's how it is dealt with that matters.

And we are pointing things out to the devs so that they can better prepare themselves for future projects. No where in this thread has anyone belittled the devs for their hard work (do not confuse the devs with ZO$...two different things), no one has. I have to make revisions DAILY in my work, sometimes up to 6 revs on what I do. Its an expected part of the work. IF the rev is my mistake, then its on me. If the rev is an addition that the client is requesting then they pay for it. In the examples we have show they made mistakes that should be fixed without additional cost. If that means someone works late and does not get paid because they are salary, well that is part of the job and they should deal with it. In this industry you can not expect to go home at the same hour every day, especially when your work is not up to par.

AJL32456 wrote: »

Zenimax didn't create this very forum because they thought it'd be funny to watch us debate over issues and share opinions on elements such as this, to do nothing about it. It's here because they care as much as, if not more about this game than we do.

I agree that artists take pride in their work, its nice to show your stuff off or point out "I made that", but that being said I have not seen any attempts whatsoever by them to fix problems that have been in game for almost three years now.
You want BRUTAL honestly. If I was the one that worked on any one of those examples that I showed, and I knew the exterior and interior did not match up, I would ask my supervisor if I could stay after work to fix it. THAT is how much pride I take in my work. Money is irrelevant when I am putting my name on the line.

AJL32456 wrote: »

So all I am saying is, we've highlighted a problem, debated on it. It is now up to Zenimax to take some time to come up with a solution that'll make us all happy. That may take more time than we would like, but we can only hope it will be fixed one day...

Sadly, there was not reason to debate this topic. There are issues in game, we pointed them out, they should be fixed. But I agree that yes, we can hope they fix them someday and frankly I don't even expect that. I just expect them going forward to keep these little things in mind. I mean what we are pointing out does not even require a laundry list of things to work on, its a change in mindset and or expecting better quality control.

AJL32456 wrote: »

I think Zenimax have done an incredible job with this game so far, I believe their work ethic and methods of communication are on point, and I look forward to the next chapters of this ESO story.

I think the devs have done what they devs can do given the budget set by ZO$. Worth ethic is debatable however based on what can easily be observed by any customer in game.
I look forward to the next chapter as well, sadly if the past has taught us anything it will be that we should expect more game breaking bugs, more issues with housing, less done to stabilize the game and a BOAT LOAD of crown store stuff being offered.

Aliyavana

Raideen wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I used to get bent out of shape over the sunlight coming through that window in the Psijic villa that has a wall in front of it. Of course it only shone in sometimes, versus the continual aetherial ambient light that exists in Arteum.

I noticed that about the bank in Rimmen since you showed the above images. I think some of the other houses in the area are that way too.

Lol, I suppose what has been seen now cannot be unseen...

And not only can it not be unseen, but you will see more...much much more, and it will make you sad.

For some fun, go study the front of the Alinor Townhome and how it relates to the interior bottom and top floor.

If you have the Hall of the Lunar Champion unlocked and have the right door/exterior unlocked. Go study the right side and note how the lake/pond wraps around. Now exit the Hall of Lunar Champion into the city and take note. I suppose the argument that can be made there is that perhaps you are teleporting through a portal to another place...but it seems like a door to me.

I first noticed the issues with Domus Phrasticus last year, but then started noticing more and more.

I initially did not have too many issues with it. I mean the core game was made some time ago, and budgets being budgets and all and blah blah blah, I kinda gave it a pass.

But Summerset came out. Same issues.
Elseweyr came out. Same issues.

So it was not an isolated incident but something that the art director has either not noticed (nor any of the artists), or has been looked over intentionally. Sadly the lack of attention to detail persists today.

each wing teleports you to a different part of elsweyr

DUTCH_REAPER

I bought it. But I’m a ESO *** for death things

Khaleesi8688

I came to the forums today specifically looking to see if anyone had creative ideas for this house because I WANT to like it...but I see that lots of ppl have the same feelings I do. I always said I wanted the floor of crypt of hearts in a house. But its so huge...and so many mistakes. I even have the crowns. It just doesn't seem like I could do much with it. Last Christmas I bought the largest crown pack when they were on sale. Then in March I paid for 1 year eso plus. I was so excited to have so many crowns to buy houses I liked as they came out. Now its mid October and I still have just under 20k crowns. I bought grand topal and the meadow. There have been very few houses that seemed worth buying with all their permanent rubble, obvious inconsistencies and huge spaces with inadequate item limits. It's really been a let down this year. I wish the designers would listen to the housing enthusiasts and give us quality houses and furniture. It's only fair with how they've monetized this aspect of the game.

bayushi2005

Khaleesi8688 wrote: »

I wish the designers would listen to the housing enthusiasts and give us quality houses and furniture. It's only fair with how they've monetized this aspect of the game.

@Khaleesi8688 Sorry for being spiteful again, but ...that would require them to do some honest work, quality checks, things like that. They prolly can't afford to do that...

I expect it has more to do with unrealistic deadlines, though, than the designers themselves.

peacenote

I don't want to take this thread too off topic but I am absolutely horrible at navigation and spacial relations and would never notice some of this stuff... I have worked in a building for many years and still gotten lost in it. Would probably NEVER notice a window being missing or whatnot.

So I'm curious for those of you that are good at spotting these things...

I know that part of the problem is what people pay for the homes but, setting that aside for a moment, I am just wondering: do these types of discrepancies exist all throughout Tamriel in the open world pubs, homes, etc., or are they just prevalent in the homes up for sale?

Raideen

peacenote wrote: »

I know that part of the problem is what people pay for the homes but, setting that aside for a moment, I am just wondering: do these types of discrepancies exist all throughout Tamriel in the open world pubs, homes, etc., or are they just prevalent in the homes up for sale?

Scroll up to the pictures I posted (my first post in this thread). Take note of the Cats Paw Counting House. That is not a player home, that is a bank in Elsweyr.

It is not the only example of building exteriors not matching up with interiors. I don't personally know how or why, but I do not agree with the argument that its due to budget constraints. In many cases doing the job right would have cost less time. Take Domus Phrasticus for example (see my picture in my first post). There is a window on the front wall to the left of the door and one on the left side wall of the house. When you go inside, the front window is missing and now the side wall has 2 windows and a fire place. If they were matching the interior to the exterior they would not have to spend the time to find the fireplace asset, just place one window, copy it and place it on the other wall.

I am the opposite of you, I just about always know my bearing. In fact my dreams even have direction in them. I know when I am facing north, south etc. I have rarely gotten lost in a building and when I was younger used to drive and try to get lost but never did.

IMO (and I am not saying this to be rude or mean) I think the person who is making the assets most likely has a mind like you do. Harder to navigate 3D environments (spatial relations) and although proficient in the software, has no working knowledge of construction. The thing about 3D design is that you have to have some basic knowledge of the item you are trying to model and rig. If I had to take a guess, this is the case. Budget constraints make no sense when in many cases it would take them less time to do it right (the dark elf house I listed is the same way).

peacenote

Raideen wrote: »

IMO (and I am not saying this to be rude or mean) I think the person who is making the assets most likely has a mind like you do.

Haha. Definitely possible... there has to be more than one of us.

Thanks for the response.

Hymzir

I re-visited Wraithome yesterday, now that it is available on live, just to refresh my memory on how it looks. While it is a gorgeous place and brimming with possibilities, it is gonna be a straight pass for me. Way too expensive and doesn't really fit any of my characters. If I could buy it with gold for a mil or two, I might buy it as a fun side project. Well, that is, if the cost of furniture wasn't so deragned in ESO. Way too grindy to bother with and not a lot of fun in gathering all the mats and plans and *** needed to do the place justice. Besides, a lot of cool pieces are only availabe for real money, so there's that too to put a damper on things. The fleecing of the housing community is hard core in this game.

Anyway.. While I was jumping about the joint and thinking about all the cool things one could theoretically build there, I came upon yet another bit of bungled construction. Check this out:


So I was looking at these pillars, and the little ledges they have, and the ledge protruding from the wall towards them. It lookes like a perfect place to build a mezzanine with daedric platforms.


So I jumped on the little ledge to scout things out... Would need small stairs or a ramp to get back to the upper level.

I then checked the ledges on the pillars...


No weird collision or anythign else preventing construction here. So far so good...

I then hopped over to the other side to check out how things looked from there, and that's when I noticed this:


WUT NOW? LOL... look at the size of that gap!

Here's a look at it for another angle - but it's best to just go check it yourself in game. The lighting and colors muddles it a bit in the pics, but it is so frigging obvious once you stand on top of that thing.



On the right hand side, the doorway mesh is properly set agaisnt the wall. No gap no nothing.



It's like who ever placed the skull doorway mesh on the left hand side just slaped it down and never bothered to check if it was properly alingned or not with the walls.

Oh well... Just another buggered bit of construction to add to the list of borked stuff for this home. ESO really could use an unofficial patch...

sueblue

@bayushi2005 - these things drive me bonkers as well. I try to make everything square and perfect when designing in houses and when the original architecture is wonky, it's impossible.

The Dunmer houses on an angle with the honeycomb floors is maddening enough but complete lack of care to alignment is dirty pool on the Dev's part.

The need a QA team. ISO 1001 Tamriel.

bayushi2005

When I have a moment I'll take more shots from Wraithhome. The list of these mishaps is really long

@Hymzir If you want to explore - check out the corridors' walls and the floor under the bower?/canopy structure in the centre. Cringeworthy.

bayushi2005

Ok, so here it comes, I bet it's not everything...

The corridor, parts of the texture overlapping, at least overlapping on both sides of the door....



But there is nothing similar on the next corner pillar:



It actually seems that overlapping is the thing in Wraithhome:





Lets move forward - more in the side room:








These parts of the floor:

Reality is bending here *sigh*. Compare these little tiles..





I mean ... why would you do that?

Jaraal

Hymzir wrote: »

To add insult to injury, there is the over fixation on worn down, busted and broken, and generally dirty and unkempt aesthetics, that ZOS people, for some ungodly reason, find sensible. Some of these features are just annoying, like the tendency of floors having tiles that are poking out, thus preventing nice placement of carpets, to the utterly ridiculous, like rubble and a broken crap lying around that you can't do jack squat about.

I would have loved to have been able to be a fly on the wall at the developer's meetings about this. Who actually said, "Hey, let's make these expensive houses look all broken and unrepairable, players will love it and want to spend more on a junk heap than they will on a beautiful, pristine home!"

I mean, somebody had to actually say something like that. That makes as much sense as a housing developer in a new subdivision saying, "Hey, let's deliberately put some crooked siding on our new homes, and break some of the sidewalk tiles and knock some holes in the sheetrock! The customer will pay more for a home that looks lived in and aged!"

Seriously? Who comes up with this stuff?

Ajaxandriel

Raideen wrote: »

Agreed OP. I have the same curse as you do (its actually part of my daily work to notice).

I am going to share some screenshots to help further illustrate where the devs could make improvements to housing in general, not just player but in the game as a whole.

Should be no extra cost on their end, just more mindful attention to construction and detail.

These are just examples. So far I have found a discrepancy in most player homes so from my observation these are not exceptions, but rather the rule.

Yes this was spotted from the very begining and never fixed:

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

I don't know if such a topic was already posted somewhere here, but I needed to share you some fun fact that fellow @MementoMori666 has pointed out, into the french forum.

Just visit your home... Then let's pay attention to how much windows of one same wall are displayed outside and inside.





What kind of sorcery is this ?!

ZENIMAXE PLIZ ! halp !

Were the development teams of exteriors and interiors different ? ...or a bit absent-minded ? hahaha

Jaraal

One of the reasons I love the Orbservatory is that the engineered detritus is at a minimum. For the most part, the structure is tidy and undamaged. However, this particular house also contains the worst design flaw I have ever seen in ESO housing.

What is actually going on here, where the domed building meets the main pillar of the structure coming down from above? Why couldn't they have taken the time to make things line up? I can't even design this flaw out. (Note that the isolated protrusions in the center of the roof are my doing, it's difficult to hide the gigantic base of the Sotha Sil statue, and that can't be seen from ground level. The unfinished and off center side of the building is however even worse up close!)

AJL32456

Raideen wrote: »

First, it's not "my observation" but a very real thing. Read about "moving to the UK and culture" and you will see most if not all saying that the UK people work to live, that is actually a flattering comment. It means the UK people cherish their time with friends and family enough to keep their work at a limit.
There will be tradeoffs in this matter. Nothing I said was an insult nor meant to be but simple facts and observations from a plethora of people.

I'm not playing the victim card, I'm highlighting an error in your referenced "observation". You want to move to the UK? Great! You read a book about it? Great! I don't have to read a book about UK culture cause I actually live it, but I'm sure by speaking to someone else from the UK you will give a clearer view of things, than a book published by someone who wants to make it sound like moving here is the best thing ever, probably first published 10 years ago. Frankly, what I've experienced is that we do work until the work is done. Doesn't sound so different, right? At the end of the day, a work/life balance can be hard to maintain at times.

Raideen wrote: »

Except that you can't preview the house in game and know what is removable/movable. It's impossible to know if its "defective".

If only there was a housing preview function that allows you to look around the houses freely before you decide to buy...? Oh wait, there is! Do they show options for what is movable? Oh wait... Yes, there is! There's an option to show the home furnished and unfurnished. I'm sure that can give you a pretty good idea, it does me. Need a tutorial?

Raideen wrote: »

No where in this thread has anyone belittled the devs for their hard work (do not confuse the devs with ZO$...two different things), no one has.

I'm pretty sure you've used words and phrases such as: 'their mediocre work ethic', 'mediocrity'; countless times in this thread. Not a dig at the devs and artists? Yeah, sure...

Raideen wrote: »

I look forward to the next chapter as well, sadly if the past has taught us anything it will be that we should expect more game breaking bugs, more issues with housing, less done to stabilize the game and a BOAT LOAD of crown store stuff being offered.

As is what happens when every game get's an update. They do do weekly maintenance, I don't think that's for nothing other than bug fixes, and game stabilisation.

What you are all posting about is aesthetic changes, that don't actually affect core gameplay, something that Zenimax knows about and may be opting to look at in future. This issue doesn't affect you placing items and furniture around or on them; adapting those aesthetics to something more appealing. A personal preference argument that's all, nothing you can't work around/with. Maybe they shouldn't look or be the way they are? It is what it is, you've highlighted these issues, from your perspectives, in this thread.

Food for thought:
Maybe someone could make a full, comprehensive, list of all errors from all houses and submit that?
Maybe make a new thread, that people can add to as the new houses come out in future updates, so Zenimax has a clear list to work from? @Raideen, you could start off with the screenshots you've already posted?

Thank you @Raideen for our thrilling conversation. I don't want to post on this thread anymore, please don't tempt me...

bayushi2005

AJL32456 wrote: »

If only there was a housing preview function that allows you to look around the houses freely before you decide to buy...? Oh wait, there is! Do they show options for what is movable? Oh wait... Yes, there is! There's an option to show the home furnished and unfurnished. I'm sure that can give you a pretty good idea, it does me. Need a tutorial?

Even unfurnished houses contain some furniture. In some instances it is impossible to figure out what is furniture and what is part of the structure - compare the rubble in Pariah's Pinnacle vs rubble in Lakemire Xanmeer Manor.

So yes, please, give us a tutorial on how to make sure something is not a part of a house itself (read: unremovable) without a) purchasing the house on PTS, b) buying the house on live, c) spending hours searching relevant information on the internet.

AJL32456 wrote: »

What you are all posting about is aesthetic changes, that don't actually affect core gameplay, something that Zenimax knows about and may be opting to look at in future. This issue doesn't affect you placing items and furniture around or on them; adapting those aesthetics to something more appealing. A personal preference argument that's all, nothing you can't work around/with. Maybe they shouldn't look or be the way they are? It is what it is, you've highlighted these issues, from your perspectives, in this thread.

This is a housing section. We talk about houses, furniture, good or bad models/textures/solutions/convenience functions. I have an impression that you are trying to reduce housing in general to "placing items and furniture" and label everything else as "aesthetics". This thread was created for ZOS and players to be aware of what is actually happening in Wraithhome. Aesthetics is what people pay for if it comes to housing. "Placing items and furniture" is only a method of achieving desired, different for everyone, "aesthetics". For some the issues highlighted may be unimportant, for some may be deal breaking, thus, the topic's title is "Wraithhome - a few things to consider".

AJL32456 wrote: »

Food for thought:
Maybe someone could make a full, comprehensive, list of all errors from all houses and submit that?
Maybe make a new thread, that people can add to as the new houses come out in future updates, so Zenimax has a clear list to work from? @Raideen, you could start off with the screenshots you've already posted?

Oh, that elusive someone. This is actually the very thing that some people, myself included, are trying to achieve here. Why not to start with Wraithhome? What was your contribution?

AJL32456 wrote: »

Thank you @Raideen for our thrilling conversation. I don't want to post on this thread anymore, please don't tempt me...

Then just don't post. I am not really sure why you're responding to @Raideen only. There are many in this thred who share his point of view. On the other hand, all your posts have earned you 3 "agrees" for a comment which can be shortened to: "If you don't like it, don't play it... it's quite simple." It is amazing how people can communicate in a non-direct way...

Raideen

AJL32456 wrote: »

I'm not playing the victim card, I'm highlighting an error in your referenced "observation". You want to move to the UK? Great! You read a book about it? Great! I don't have to read a book about UK culture cause I actually live it, but I'm sure by speaking to someone else from the UK you will give a clearer view of things, than a book published by someone who wants to make it sound like moving here is the best thing ever, probably first published 10 years ago. Frankly, what I've experienced is that we do work until the work is done. Doesn't sound so different, right? At the end of the day, a work/life balance can be hard to maintain at times.

There were no errors in my post. The error is in your observational acuity. Its already been proved in this thread alone that my ability to observe details in a given environment is simply better than yours. I don't say that to be rude or full of hubris, but is simply true. I pointed out issues in the game, you defended those issues and I'd be real money you did not even observe the issues until we pointed them out.

But lets talk about the UK. I don't feel like giving out my life details, but my almost 5 year GF is from the UK. She prefers life before work. Her mum also seems to be the same way, but both of them will work double shifts if required. But the overall consensus is that people in the UK live to work where as americans work to live. This is not even debatable, the fact that you keep harping on it tells me that the argument has little to do with the subject matter and more to do with you inability to accept the truth, which again you have demonstrated in multiple instances already where you defend what is simply broken, or incorrect.

Read the "Work and Play" bit. This person mirrors what I observe. https://www.languagetrainers.co.uk/blog/2016/03/17/5-things-to-know-about-british-work-culture/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=83&v=ldzHbSV5eJA skip to 1:10

Read "better rights, better balance" https://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/british-working-culture-outsider-perspectives-17270/

This infographic helps to break it down https://www.footholdamerica.com/blog/similarities-differences-work-culture-united-kingdom-vs-america/

Do I need to go on? I can, there is sooooo much information about this on google its not even funny.

Lastly, I never said that Brits are not hard workers, or do not get the work done. But the fact is Americans will stay late to get the work done more so than Brits. Those are just hard fact numbers.
https://data.oecd.org/emp/hours-worked.htm

AJL32456 wrote: »

If only there was a housing preview function that allows you to look around the houses freely before you decide to buy...? Oh wait, there is! Do they show options for what is movable? Oh wait... Yes, there is! There's an option to show the home furnished and unfurnished. I'm sure that can give you a pretty good idea, it does me. Need a tutorial?

If only you had paid attention to my last post.
some homes such as cold harbor do not even have a furniture preview, but there are still props (plants) that can be moved, removed.

AJL32456 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure you've used words and phrases such as: 'their mediocre work ethic', 'mediocrity'; countless times in this thread. Not a dig at the devs and artists? Yeah, sure...

I don't think you know how to separate calling out facts vs attacking. This is also most likely why you got "offended" at something that is completely true. Go figure.

AJL32456 wrote: »

As is what happens when every game get's an update. They do do weekly maintenance, I don't think that's for nothing other than bug fixes, and game stabilisation.

Except they have done little to fix them and the issues compound.
Do you still have to zone to receive mail? Do you recall the devs saying animation cancelling was not intended, but they accepted it. Do you know why they accepted it? It was easier to just let people keep abusing the exploit vs fixing it.

AJL32456 wrote: »

What you are all posting about is aesthetic changes, that don't actually affect core gameplay, something that Zenimax knows about and may be opting to look at in future. This issue doesn't affect you placing items and furniture around or on them; adapting those aesthetics to something more appealing. A personal preference argument that's all, nothing you can't work around/with. Maybe they shouldn't look or be the way they are? It is what it is, you've highlighted these issues, from your perspectives, in this thread.

Aesthetics do not affect gameplay? Do you realize the ENTIRETY of this game revolves around graphics and aesthetics. AND IT DOES AFFECT GAMEPLAY. Every time I see a window where one should not be, or some terribly done 3D work, I just laugh. It really is that sad.

AJL32456 wrote: »

Food for thought:
Maybe someone could make a full, comprehensive, list of all errors from all houses and submit that?
Maybe make a new thread, that people can add to as the new houses come out in future updates, so Zenimax has a clear list to work from? @Raideen, you could start off with the screenshots you've already posted?

When they decide to put me on the payroll I will spend my time dissecting the issues that plague this game thoroughly and submit them.

AJL32456 wrote: »

Thank you @Raideen for our thrilling conversation. I don't want to post on this thread anymore, please don't tempt me...

I aim to please.

buttaface

Am a housing noob compared to most folks that post in this subforum, but have experienced some of the design misgivings also, and reading all this has been an unexpected hoot, so thanks. Was just about to buy Mattiiesen Manor to make it into a brothel and then noticed... there is no rear entrance ANYWHERE on that house, none, a MANOR no less, only a second story balcony. And the main feature of the house is the rear fountain and wall???

Another large home has three doors on the front for no reason why. Can't remember which. That was a nope. And then the one with the stable under the front of the house? Nope. Very glad I just got cheap Mournoth. For their poor relative functionality in relation to what housing could be in this game 2+ years after introduction, they simply aren't worth it to me. For those who feel otherwise, that's fine for you.

How much more money could they make if they had mobile NPCs that performed a very limited range of activities? How much could they make if they allowed simulacra of one's alts doing similar simple things around the house? Even if they just sat on chairs would be better than an empty house with almost always only one character in it. No guards, no servants? Yet more and more relatively static meshes pumped out?

Grimm13

Many of the issues pointed out in this thread is due to the poor quality of the Housing Editing Tools in ESO.

You can move items left - Right, Forward- backward and rotate but the pitch and roll is set at a weird angle. When you try to do a mirrored placement of items you can not accurately do so with the tool.

Seems they have the same tool as I find the layers of objects to be slightly off when they should be the same. The tool also needs a more accurate movement scaling. Correct axis angles to all be true to north, add a few more controls to give us that angular flip.

Standardize object sizes such as with crafting stations. The invisible boarders should all be the same of the various crafting tables, set to accommodate the largest of visual parts. This way they can be snapped together with little issue.

In Wraithhome I do like it for the most part. Wish they had the ability to morph some assets. When you first walk into the large part from the entry hallway you have several pillars that make it hard to utilize the space. Wish I could turn them off or on so I had options to build a bit differently if I wanted. Not asking that they be part of our inventory or house count, just there or not there. Or Skull doorways or Gothic doorways. Let us adjust the day/night filter.

Make these changes and I believe people would be more willing to buy homes they don't quite love but could live with some adjustments.