Lets have an auction house please!!!

oddbasket

I would like an official in-game crown exchange.

VaranisArano

oddbasket wrote: »

I would like an official in-game crown exchange.

At least a decent UI for trading Gifts and Gold so we don't need middlemen and carefully negotiated deals that require begging Support to help if someone doesn't keep the deal.

Dawnblade

I'd love to see a global marketplace, absent that, some in-game method to search all traders and potentially even buy items from central locations - though anything server wide, even a simple search function, is probably beyond the current capabilities of ZOS.

My biggest pet peeve with the current system is when I'm in buyer mode, and need to find something and even with TTC, can waste a not inconsequential amount of time watching load screens porting around the world to interact with individual traders.

Sell side hasn't been as annoying, even though I find the whole trade guild thing silly - I've never had an issue getting a slot on a decent trader, and with access at any bank, along with pricing data from add-ons, it isn't much different posting on a trader than an AH in other games.

Glurin

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

To get a public trader you have to bid at least 300k gold a week, that is 1 million and 200k gold a month, is this normal?

Yes. In fact, depending on location, you have to bid quite a bit more. That's one of the guild trader system's primary functions. It's a massive gold sink, removing a large chunk of currency from the market to help keep inflation in check. Guilds that buy up the trader and then don't sell anything are essentially just flushing large amounts of gold down the toilet. I suppose it keeps Plunges-For-Gold the Argonian plumber happy and employed though.

This is currently achieved by taxing listings. ZOS can still charge a tax to list on a central AH.

And do you have any idea how much higher that tax would have to be just to make up for the gold that gets sucked into Oblivion from trader bids every week? Do you even realize the impact that sort of thing would have on the market and game economy? And that's before we even get into all the other negative effects a central AH has.

majulook

I say NO Auction House. The individual trader kiosks is one of the things that makes ESO unique.

GrimTheReaper45

no

idk

oddbasket wrote: »

I would like an official in-game crown exchange.

This is easily handled. Zos could just make it so when we buy an item from the cash shop it is a token that is not bound until "consumed". They could do this for anything they want us to be able to "gift". Then we can place the items on the trader at will.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

no.

Vapirko

Could there be some sort of intermediary option between multiple guild traders in each zone and a GAH? Maybe like the main selling spots of each zone get one trader who holds items for the guilds that get in that spot? That way there would still be smaller traders throughout and the main zones wouldn't require checking 6+ traders.

buttaface

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I'm sorry to break it to you but an AH would function far worse then the current system.

No it would not.

The first sentence of your post was incoherent, so didn't bother further with it.

@thread How we know all you "armchair junior college economist, AH won't work, didn't work in this one game so won't work here, hurr durr inflation, beating a dead horse" and all the other rationalizations, red herrings, fallacies and translations of "don't dare change the way I milk this game" broscientists are full of it is that every single one of their hollow rationalizations is postured against a full, unregulated, uncapped, instant tab of an auction house. This is by design, because they are really advocating for what makes them rich in a game and not for any optimal trading system for players. It's just a different kind of nerf thread, "don't nerf game money making!" And there's some real gold for $$ traders and related always in there too.

No one ever asked (or ever asks in any of these threads in any games with crap trading functionality) for an unregulated, uncapped, untaxed, UNLIMITED AH. For example, could have a cap of X slots per player, could have trade per week per player caps, short term listings, could have any of COUNTLESS other checks and balances in place, and could do all that IN ADDITION TO the preexisting guild-based trading system.


And POOF just like that, 90% of the bogus rationalizations go right out the window, and expose those who make them for what they really are.

There's quite a lot of turf between the broken trading system in ESO and a completely unlimited UI tab of an AH. The broeconomists show their hand by posturing only against an imaginary completely unlimited AH as a straw man.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

, which is why the same people keep asking for an auction house

Fixed that for you

Incorrect. New players constantly talk about wanting a central auction house. The people like myself who know this is an amazing idea will obviously chime in with our support, in the exact same way you are trolling the thread.

They ask where the auction house is because that's all they've ever known and it never occurred to them that there could be another way.

Incorrect. These are folks who got into trade guilds and find the system cumbersome (it is), lacking sales (it does).

The only people in this game who love the guild system are the rich ones who abuse it with addons. The rest wish for something more fair, balanced. The issue is many game devs (esp popular titles) are some of the most narcissistic people on the planet and RARELY admit to the community they were wrong in their design.

ESO's auction system sucks, there is no benefit to the people as a whole to use this system over a traditional AH.

Coggo

Devs need to stop working on improving game performance. They need to create a function that automatically takes anyone writing the words "Auction House" in the title of a new forum thread to a historical forum search of that very term.

Rave the Histborn

buttaface wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

I'm sorry to break it to you but an AH would function far worse then the current system.

No it would not.

The first sentence of your post was incoherent, so didn't bother further with it.

@thread How we know all you "armchair junior college economist, AH won't work, didn't work in this one game so won't work here, hurr durr inflation, beating a dead horse" and all the other rationalizations, red herrings, fallacies and translations of "don't dare change the way I milk this game" broscientists are full of it is that every single one of their hollow rationalizations is postured against a full, unregulated, uncapped, instant tab of an auction house. This is by design, because they are really advocating for what makes them rich in a game and not for any optimal trading system for players. It's just a different kind of nerf thread, "don't nerf game money making!" And there's some real gold for $$ traders and related always in there too.

No one ever asked (or ever asks in any of these threads in any games with crap trading functionality) for an unregulated, uncapped, untaxed, UNLIMITED AH. For example, could have a cap of X slots per player, could have trade per week per player caps, short term listings, could have any of COUNTLESS other checks and balances in place, and could do all that IN ADDITION TO the preexisting guild-based trading system.


And POOF just like that, 90% of the bogus rationalizations go right out the window, and expose those who make them for what they really are.

There's quite a lot of turf between the broken trading system in ESO and a completely unlimited UI tab of an AH. The broeconomists show their hand by posturing only against an imaginary completely unlimited AH as a straw man.

Yes, it would. You'd have to change how everything in ESO functions. Look apparently english isn't your strong suit so maybe instead of saying I'm incoherent maybe learn to read and then come back to the conversation.

No one wants to have their trades inhibited in anyway. What's the point of adding an AH if you're then going to then have to cap trades per week. All your ideas just boil down to let's nerf every other system so we can institute a system that would cater to the people already benefiting the system I don't like.

Cously

I do hate the trading system in ESO because as a buyer is such a nightmare to find stuff, the loading screens suck. As a seller, unless you are part of a trade guild, and a good one, have fun yelling like a mad man in zone chat. The original system was one step in the right direction, which I'll explain below, but the trader system that came after was implemented in a clumsy fashion. Not even mentioning the atrocious delivery to the console peasants, I can't imagine how painful is for them, but hey, they put themselves in that situation so who cares, join the master race on PC.

Seriously though, one of pillars of any MMO is community. PVP guild will involve some zergs here and there or your trusty sidekick small scale. PVE guild will have on average the core team plus some spares. RP guilds are niche and also rely on small groups (small as compared to the full potential of 500 members in our current guild system). NOW trade guilds are the ones who manage to involve the whole membership in events, raffles, etc. They were born from a collateral effect and are the example to follow.

Now, I'm speculating the developers had this vision of restrict guild trader to the members of the guild in order to foster player created communities. Big enough to have it's own ecosystem and contained enough to enable diverse communities all over the game. They however stopped investing on that. When you compare ESO's guild system to things like Archeage and Black Desert, it's ridiculous. There is much more guild involvement there, from missions to help build guild resources, bases, etc.

We don't even have tabs on guild bank so we can have a bank for new members to the guild and a bank for advanced members, etc. Implement some calendar with rewards, ways of the guild to generate gold, salary for members, and many more possible things for the communities to do together. The guild system needs a total revamp.

On the topic of the current trade system, if ZOS changes it to an AH they will obliterate all those awesome trade guild communities and expect an exodus of the best leadership this game has to offer. Don't cripple communities but implement tools to make them better and social.

tahol10069

Cously wrote: »

Now, I'm speculating the developers had this vision of restrict guild trader to the members of the guild in order to foster player created communities. Big enough to have it's own ecosystem and contained enough to enable diverse communities all over the game. They however stopped investing on that. When you compare ESO's guild system to things like Archeage and Black Desert, it's ridiculous. There is much more guild involvement there, from missions to help build guild resources, bases, etc.

You don't have to speculate, it was their original vision. They planned that each person would be in max 5 guilds, and all the trading would happen inside of those guilds. This was their plan before the release. I followed beta-forums closely at that time and there was some really heated discussion going on about this. Of course many people spoke against it, and many wanted a proper AH. Of course many people defended that ludicrous idea of pure guild trading saying you would have 2500 people to trade with and that should be plenty enough. I played in beta but did not buy the game after release and lack of proper trading was one reason (I bought when we got One Tamriel), so I don't have personal experience of in what state the game was released, but to my understanding they didn't have guild trade kiosks on release and those were added later because people demanded them.

Their vision was 100% BS from the start, and they were stubbornly clinging to their "unique" concept of how trading will work. I don't expect it to change, no. But it doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticised for this abomination they created in others good game, regularly. And there will always be new players who will question their trading system, so get used to it people, these threads won't go away, ever, because this godawful trading system is here to stay too.

redlink1979

Despite how many threads are created related to this the answer will always be a "No".

ZeroXFF

Glurin wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

ThePlayer wrote: »

To get a public trader you have to bid at least 300k gold a week, that is 1 million and 200k gold a month, is this normal?

Yes. In fact, depending on location, you have to bid quite a bit more. That's one of the guild trader system's primary functions. It's a massive gold sink, removing a large chunk of currency from the market to help keep inflation in check. Guilds that buy up the trader and then don't sell anything are essentially just flushing large amounts of gold down the toilet. I suppose it keeps Plunges-For-Gold the Argonian plumber happy and employed though.

This is currently achieved by taxing listings. ZOS can still charge a tax to list on a central AH.

And do you have any idea how much higher that tax would have to be just to make up for the gold that gets sucked into Oblivion from trader bids every week? Do you even realize the impact that sort of thing would have on the market and game economy? And that's before we even get into all the other negative effects a central AH has.

Not significantly higher, because the taxes that the guilds collect to fund the bids would instead get directly "sucked into oblivion" without the middle man. And on top of that, the amount of gold that would be taken out of the economy in total would increase by virtue of more people participating in the economy with entry barriers removed.

I don't know what the exact proportions are of global trading volume increase vs. the amount of gold that guilds spend on top of what they make in taxes, but it will result in a much smaller difference than you think.

anitajoneb17_ESO

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I don't know what the exact proportions are of global trading volume increase vs. the amount of gold that guilds spend on top of what they make in taxes, but it will result in a much smaller difference than you think.

Sources ? Data ?
Just your own personal guess, I guess.
My guess is that the part of taxes in the overall bids the guilds spend weekly on traders is much, much lower than you think.
Hence the constant work on fundraising made by trading guilds via raffles, auctions, donations, etc.

Grimm13

redlink1979 wrote: »

Despite how many threads are created related to this the answer will always be a "No".

No we will not add Necromancers...

Elsonso

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Not significantly higher, because the taxes that the guilds collect to fund the bids would instead get directly "sucked into oblivion" without the middle man. And on top of that, the amount of gold that would be taken out of the economy in total would increase by virtue of more people participating in the economy with entry barriers removed.

I don't know what the exact proportions are of global trading volume increase vs. the amount of gold that guilds spend on top of what they make in taxes, but it will result in a much smaller difference than you think.

ZOS does not release how much is pulled out of the economy, per player, per week, by the guild trading system but I would imagine that it is not trivial. Any central trading system that allowed players direct access to the "trader" would have to remove a similar amount of gold.

I doubt that ZOS would be able to do it with just taxes on the posting and sale of items. People whine about the smuggler assistant taking 35%, and it could be higher than that. If they kept the tax rate down (to prevent player whining) changes would have to be made elsewhere to make the taxes work. ZOS mght have to charge a large "access fee" or restructure the gold source pipeline to reduce the amount of new gold entering the system. They may also have to adjust the scarcity of items to drive prices up so that any taxes they do have pull more gold.

My gut instinct is that, if ZOS implemented an in-game central trading system, people would not be happy with the side effects. They would basically go on about how ZOS "screwed up" something that other games handle differently.

In any case, they have said "No" and I hope they stick to that.

Grimm13 wrote: »

No we will not add Necromancers...

Translating from ZOS into English, or any other language, is a PhD level skill. Many people get it wrong.

I am not familiar with such a statement, but my guess is that it was not properly translated from the original ZOS. This is usually the case. People often incorrectly translate a "maybe" answer into an absolute.

Grimm13

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I don't know what the exact proportions are of global trading volume increase vs. the amount of gold that guilds spend on top of what they make in taxes, but it will result in a much smaller difference than you think.

Sources ? Data ?
Just your own personal guess, I guess.
My guess is that the part of taxes in the overall bids the guilds spend weekly on traders is much, much lower than you think.
Hence the constant work on fundraising made by trading guilds via raffles, auctions, donations, etc.

Here is some truth on how much it earned through sales:

73,134,291 sales 2,553,940 earned taxes

11,098,121 sales 387,163 earned taxes

1,038,966 sales 36,181 earned taxes

It is much lower than most think. Now I have no idea how the amount of sales on average is on the different platforms. Prices are much higher on console than PC.

Titansteele

I just came to see an Eternal Dive flag a dead horse, I was not disappointed.

Square252

Every time I see one of these AH threads I feel like i'm stuck in a time loop...

starkerealm

Square252 wrote: »

Every time I see one of these AH threads I feel like i'm stuck in a time loop...

Every time I see one of these AH threads, I want to post a .gif from SG1 where they're stuck in a time loop. Only weird part is that @lordrichter got there first this time.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

Square252 wrote: »

Every time I see one of these AH threads I feel like i'm stuck in a time loop...

Every time I see one of these AH threads, I want to post a .gif from SG1 where they're stuck in a time loop. Only weird part is that @lordrichter got there first this time.

Someone else beat me to it. I was copying them. I like that one because it also show the exasperated nature of the loop. The Teal'c one might be more appropriate, though. There is never anything new that gets said and the whole discussion is pointless. Sadly, someone always says something that pulls me in.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Grimm13 wrote: »

Here is some truth on how much it earned through sales:

73,134,291 sales 2,553,940 earned taxes

11,098,121 sales 387,163 earned taxes

1,038,966 sales 36,181 earned taxes

Who's "it" ?

Taxes are *always* 3.5% of sales.
We can get weekly sales figures from any guild we're a member of via Master Merchant. And therefore know the exact amount of taxes.
But we'd still be missing the value of the bid (even if some GM speaks up, there's no guarantee of it being true due to the high competitive nature of bids).
So I guess only ZOS knows (for the entire server) and the GMs (but only for their own guild(s) ).

But I agree with you : taxes are probably a very small part of the entire gold sink, and a global AH would NOT draw as much gold out of the economy as the trader system does - albeit the counter-argument brought up above (that more items would be traded in a global AH, generating more taxes) is also valid to a certain extent.

Elsonso

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

But I agree with you : taxes are probably a very small part of the entire gold sink, and a global AH would NOT draw as much gold out of the economy as the trader system does - albeit the counter-argument brought up above (that more items would be traded in a global AH, generating more taxes) is also valid to a certain extent.

The last statement is hard to quantify. My feeling is that ZOS would twiddle with enough "other factors" that the increase in sales might be a minor part of the adjustment. There are different ways they could go that would have an impact on the gold sink... (1) increase the list fee or have a trader "membership" fee, (2) increase sales tax, (3) reduce size of gold rewards, (4) increase scarcity of desired items. They are not limited to doing just one of them, and there may be others that I am forgetting about.

NekoTashi

How many times are people going to cry over this?! This has been discussed previously on different forum posts. Why make another one discussing the same old story that won't make any difference to the game?! Auction house is never going to come in TESO. You want a AH so desperately?! Then perhaps this is not the game you are searching for. Search one that has a AH system.

End of discussion. Also please use the search area in the future before creating a already existing topic!

VaranisArano

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

I don't know what the exact proportions are of global trading volume increase vs. the amount of gold that guilds spend on top of what they make in taxes, but it will result in a much smaller difference than you think.

Sources ? Data ?
Just your own personal guess, I guess.
My guess is that the part of taxes in the overall bids the guilds spend weekly on traders is much, much lower than you think.
Hence the constant work on fundraising made by trading guilds via raffles, auctions, donations, etc.

That's a really interesting question that's also really hard to answer. Most guilds don't like to share their accounting data. At best, we get anecdotes.

In general, my experience has been that my PC/NA trading guilds made the bulk of their bid money through raffles, donations, and auctions.

For example, I was an officer in my most expensive guild which had a 25k sales requirement or 5k raffle ticket buy, and a trader bid somewhere between 2 to 3 million (for the Craglorn/capital city tier, at the time. Its since gone up.) I didnt do accounting, so this will be more general than if I had.

If all 500 members made the sales requirement, that's 437,500 gold. Many members did not make the requirement, and some made more, so that's a fairly decent average. Our raffle paid for its own gold prizes, but all non-gold prizes and all auction items were donated by officers or guildies.

So that hopefully gives a feel for how our sales taxes stacked up against our raffle/auction/donations funding when it came to making a 2 to 3 million gold bid every week.


I don't have a lot of other info to compare, since guilds don't typically share their bid values.

In general, we can use the 3.5% sales tax number to guess what the maximum bids would be if guilds funded their trader bids with sales taxes only. (Note that console guilds cannot track sales data without add-ons, so they have no choice but to rely on raffles, donations, auctions, and fees.)

If a guild is bidding 1 million, their weekly sales requirement has to be 57k. (I've briefly been in a guild that did this. Our trader was middle of nowhere Bangkorai.)

For a guild like my other one who bid 2 to 3 million, our sales requirement really should have been 115k to 170k a week, not 25k a week if we wanted to fund our trader bid solely from guild taxes. Remember that most of our members didn't sell 25k a week.

The highest number I've seen from a reputable source was a losing Rawlkha bid of 22.5 million during the troll incident. That guild needs a sales requirement of 1.3 million a week from each member in order to fund their bid solely from guild sales taxes. (At my most frenetic selling pace when I spent hours a day farming mats, I sold around 1 to 1.5 million a week, and was in the top 4 of my guilds according to MM.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/bs4wmy/ever_wonder_how_much_a_rawlkha_bid_costs_on_pcna/

I know guild fees in Rawl'kha are high, but really, how many guilds actually fund their trader bids solely from guild taxes? Very, very few on PC, and even less on Console because they can't even track their sales taxes. (ZOS, it would be lovely if you gave Consoles more accounting tools!)


Unfortunately, there's not enough data for us to even guess what the new sales taxes from an AH would have to be compared to the current tax rate of 7% (3.5% ZOS, 3.5% guild).

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Square252 wrote: »

Every time I see one of these AH threads I feel like i'm stuck in a time loop...

Every time I see one of these AH threads, I want to post a .gif from SG1 where they're stuck in a time loop. Only weird part is that @lordrichter got there first this time.

Someone else beat me to it. I was copying them. I like that one because it also show the exasperated nature of the loop. The Teal'c one might be more appropriate, though. There is never anything new that gets said and the whole discussion is pointless. Sadly, someone always says something that pulls me in.

Chris Judge is the real treasure.