Lets have an auction house please!!!

Essavias

No. GAH will remove the traders gold sink, adding millions of gold into circulation and subsequently inflate the prices. Also, it'll remove the element of deal hunting. Many people enjoy scouting backwater traders and flipping stuff for profits - it's fun.

For people who complain about inaccessibility of trading guilds - I call ***. On PC EU there are only three locations that require high-ish numbers: Mournhold (~50k weekly), Vivec (~50k weekly) and Craglorn (up to 150k weekly). And even then there are exclusions - I'm a member of a front row Vivec guild that only requires 10k fee with no trading limit - that's NOTHING compared to amount you can sell there. Same with Mournhold - 5k weekly, no limit. I'm not trading in Belkarth, but there's a second row guild that charges 7.5k fee if you can't make the weekly. And these are the top trading locations. Dial back to Elden Root/Rawl'kha/Rimmen/Wayrest/etc - and requirements are way, way more relaxed (like 10-20k/2k or even less).

To sum it up - even prime trading spots are accessible to casual players. If you're not willing to put your back into it even a little - it's a "you" problem.

starkerealm

Essavias wrote: »

No. GAH will remove the traders gold sink, adding millions of gold into circulation and subsequently inflate the prices.

It's hard to give a specific number, but best guess, the Trader bids take half a billion gold out of the economy each week.

dagrdagaz_5912

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.

WOW, the sheer dumbness of posting this.

Again failing to present evidence here, when asked/confronted about it.
Referring to evidence that may be somewhere else, and we have to try find it.
I mean really, makes it very difficult to belief you.

Elsonso

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.

WOW, the sheer dumbness of posting this.

Again failing to present evidence here, when asked/confronted about it.
Referring to evidence that may be somewhere else, and we have to try find it.
I mean really, makes it very difficult to belief you.

You can search, like everyone else. You might be new to all of this, but for a lot of people in here, they are tired of saying things over and over and over and over just because someone decides to start a thread.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

lordrichter wrote: »

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.

WOW, the sheer dumbness of posting this.

Again failing to present evidence here, when asked/confronted about it.
Referring to evidence that may be somewhere else, and we have to try find it.
I mean really, makes it very difficult to belief you.

You can search, like everyone else. You might be new to all of this, but for a lot of people in here, they are tired of saying things over and over and over and over just because someone decides to start a thread.

Well, I started playing ESO the day it was released.

I've been on the forums almost every day since then, even on days I don't post I read.

I've been involved in almost every AH Thread since then because the problems with the current system are quite obvious to most people - there are less Trade Slots than there are Players, by roughly a factor of 10 - that is roughly 90% of players CAN'T EVER get a Trade Slot, even if they wanted one (this assumes each player is only ever in one Guild with a Kiosk, and we already know that isn't true as well).

I have NEVER ONCE seen anything other than "hear say" presented as "evidence".

I have seen no links to external sites - except one, on the WoW Forums expressing the concern that an AH "could theoretically" permit a "market cornering" but again presenting NO ACTUAL EVIDENCE that it was actually happening.

Advocates of the current Kiosk System claim that "cornering of markets" is widespread and almost a daily occurrence in games with AH / GAH, but have so far been unable to present any REAL evidence of it ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

In this thread the claim has been that "we can't present evidence now because the cornering has already happened because it happens right way".

I have been in two games with a Global AH since the day they launched - SWTOR and Wildstar - and it NEVER happened in either of those.

I play SWTOR almost daily, and have done since it launched (with one notable 6 month absence - I assume the claim now will be the "cornering" happened while I was away) - the scaremongering claimed in threads advocating changes to the Kiosk system HAVE NEVER HAPPENED ONCE in SWTOR.

Yes there is "price inflation" but that is a consequence of an aging economy with lots of funds available, and I note that Price Inflation in SWTOR is significantly lower than in ESO.

If some people have posted evidence already it should be easy for them to find it again; instead they procrastinate and don't - that tells me that evidence isn't there.

For something that is "widespread", and for which "evidence has already been posted" it seems inconceivably difficult to get that evidence reposted or relinked - that tells me the evidence doesn't exist.

All it would take to nail this debate once and for all is... ...wait for it... ...evidence of it ACTUALLY HAPPENING to be posted here JUST ONCE.

But somehow that is too difficult - that tells that evidence doesn't exist.

Prove me wrong - all it takes is one post.

I won't hold my breath for that post - because we ALL know it is never going to happen because that evidence simply doesn't exist.

All The Best

warpaintgreenb14_ESO

I love the fact ESO doesn't have a central auction house. Finding deals out in the world is fantastic and being part of a trading guild is a unique experience you can't find in any other MMO. ESO is by far the easiest game to learn economics 101 and play around and have fun however there is one thing I will say - Bidding on 10 traders is insane. I can understand 1 or 2, but when I see all the top guilds offer real-life money via crown purchases for gold just to keep their spot? I am not okay with that.

Rave the Histborn

barney2525 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Wow, imagine that. A cheap shot, but it's only a cheap shot because it is a completely False statement. Whatever the game is, it will require a Mechanic for buying and selling. That is ALL the Trader system is. That is ALL a GAH is. A Mechanic. It has NOTHING to do with actual game play. Spending time using the Trader system is Not Game play, anymore than spending time using a GAH would be.

They are Mechanics. Nothing more. If you think you are 'playing the game' by spending the bulk of your time playing with numbers, you are deluding yourself. You can do that without even logging in to ESO.

Wow, imagine that you said something with no substance and someone took a shot at you. Where is the shocked emoticon?

The guild trader system removal would require a rework of how guilds function not only in the base game but also at the social level. Guilds will turn into, as you term it a "stinky fart like air". You're going to kill guild utility for the sake of WoW like guild structures which, let's be honest. Unless you're in an endgame raid guild there is no *** reason to join a guild in WoW whatsoever.

Now the economy is also going to take a hit. You're asking for a system to benefit anyone already good at the current system. You can tout your anonymous "I play MMOs" put I've played WoW, GW1/GW2, and a couple lesser known ones. The AH house either doesn't sell you *** unless you constantly play the auction game. Remember this: all you people whining about spending 15seconds porting to a new zone are really going to have something to cry about when you have to spend 10min every 4 hours updating your trades because someone posted the same things for 5 gold less a stack.

There's also the gold sink ghost. The amount of gold removed from the economy is huge. You can see the affects of the lack of a real gold sink in games like WoW. I remember having epic flying training and mounts on 2 characters after it had first dropped with Burning Crusade when gold was much harder to make but 10-12 years later that's not the same case in game.

People can and will play the game how they want and just because you don't know how to use the trading system doesn't mean it's just mechanics. I've met people that can pay for vet trials and arenas because they're so good at the trading system and they love playing the game like that, a wealthy merchant. If you think those people already benefiting from the trading system now aren't going to benefit exponentially further from an AH you are kidding yourself.

Grimm13

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

"For a long time people have been saying they are frustrated with the trading system and express what will make it enjoyable."

It seems to be the same 5 people that also constantly talk about how WoW has an AH system. We get it, you meant to buy WoW but you don't have understanding of letters. It is also the same people saying that the AH system is a perfect system that has always worked 100% as intended, helps new players always and doesn't block them out, your AHs never sit there for months on end, and it has never caused inflation ever. It's like reading from people that have only played on MMO ever.

"Some call this a beating a dead horse, what this really says is "That they acknowledge this a long standing problem that ZOS has yet to address"

Which means that it's not a long standing problem if ZOS isn't addressing the system they made intentionally made like that.

If you can not understand that I was referring to the multitude of posts since Beta. Yes I've been around here since Nov 2013 as well as others. Seems that you had no real counter so you have resorted to baiting and insults.

Guess the stuck in combat bug or the lag in Cyrodil are not long standing problems by your definition and should be kept. So the Dev's should stop wasting their time looking at those.

Grimm13

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

pelle412

If not having a global AH gets many of you so upset then go play something else. The kiosk system we have is different but it works. It isn't going to change. I play ESO casually, meaning about 2 hours a day, some days a week (I play other games on some days). I accumulated 30M gold by using the kiosk system and that includes donating about half a million or more weekly to guild activities. Trade guilds are formed around kiosks and wanting to keep them or even upgrade and such guilds blossom into really fun and friendly places with a lot of activities for players to participate in. Ripping this all out would fundamentally change the course of the game and make it less social.

You're wasting your energy. Take all the time you spent banging your head against the forums and start making your first million.

Grimm13

starkerealm wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

There's a lot of "this could happen" but absolutely no evidence at all that "this has happened".

Not in this game, and that seems to be the important metric. If people bring data in from other games, or even personal experiences from other games, it does not seem to matter.

Which is the hilarious part. Because a lot of us have specific data about how GAH systems work, long term, from other titles, and people are like, "but it didn't happen in ESO, so that doesn't count." Of course it didn't happen in ESO, because the devs were aware of the pitfall and didn't make the same mistake again.

Alright, time for the Elephant in the room that all have been avoiding so they don't tick off both side and then some. You'll know it when you read it.

First, there is data from other titles that shows the pro's and con's no matter your stance.

Other than adding some traders but keeping with the growth of the game, recent search changes and the multi-bid system. That's about all the changes the dev's have made since introduction of their system. There has been a number of people that have come and gone because of these issues. No don't have that data as leaving threads are not allowed.


"because the devs were aware of the pitfall and didn't make the same mistake again."

The pitfall being the pricing dropping and flipping. Flipping still happens, you can be in five guilds so it can give you a reach into about a fourth of the the games zones. Most flippers only look at the main trading cities and a few others they have found to their liking. Flipping is not just on one platform but all.

The price dropping because of a CAH. On PC we have addons that eliminates this argument because it already has happened. Even on the other platforms you can have a good idea of pricing in the game by looking at the zones you have your five guilds in, again this is about one fourth of the zones. Prices other go so low before they stabilize. Even the gold sellers will only go so low and not drive themselves out.

I expected this to be bashed to hell so I ask, what's your skin in this. Mine is that I am a GM of a trade guild on PC-NA.

Royaji

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

You do understand that ZOS doesn't need any kind of player survey since they can pull out all kinds of fancy data and metrics from logs, right?

anitajoneb17_ESO

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

But you haven't prevent ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL.

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.

WOW, the sheer dumbness of posting this.

Again failing to present evidence here, when asked/confronted about it.
Referring to evidence that may be somewhere else, and we have to try find it.
I mean really, makes it very difficult to belief you.

It's not dumb, it's simply wise. Anyone who has been discussing here at some length with @Gandrhulf_Harbard knows it's pointless. He's the kind of person who'll require you to bring him a leaf as proof, and when you do, he tells you it's not a leaf but some vegetal fiber and to please go find a leaf as proof.

I guess most people here are smart enough to understand that all systems have pros and cons and it's all a matter of how each individual weighs those pros and cons. Pretending to "know" that they do or don't exist, in ESO or in other games, simply shows that this person doesn't understand the discussion.

wolfie1.0.

Diarf wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Get ready for all of the peeps screaming that the Trader System is awesome and can't be manipulated. And that a Auction House would be inviting demons into ESO.

In the meantime, those of us familiar with both systems will tell you that its definitely possible to manipulate ESO's system, but it takes a lot of time and effort, is typically over a short duration and only for certain rarer items. An Auction House would make manipulation much, much easier in comparison.

But that would require you to engage with more than a strawman argument.

Market manipulation is already present in ESO, and can be seen in items that affect newer and more casual players disproportionately. Crafting and upgrade materials are routinely rounded up and reposted at a mark-up. Guild traders vs. auction house is immaterial, you'd need other measures to address manipulation.

thermatico wrote: »

Think about the current performance of this game. Could you imagine implementing a global auction house? lmao

Straw man. Other MMOs with global auction houses don't seem to be held back by that fact.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

How original. But a horse ain't dead just because you say it is. A dead horse would be something that is definitively and irrevocably decided. There is nothing stopping ZOS from implementing an AH in the future, so the discussion remains valid. If you don't want to discuss, you can just move along.

Lol? There is 1 thing.
Zos. This is one, big, dead horse. If you think not... Gz xD

Diarf wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Get ready for all of the peeps screaming that the Trader System is awesome and can't be manipulated. And that a Auction House would be inviting demons into ESO.

In the meantime, those of us familiar with both systems will tell you that its definitely possible to manipulate ESO's system, but it takes a lot of time and effort, is typically over a short duration and only for certain rarer items. An Auction House would make manipulation much, much easier in comparison.

But that would require you to engage with more than a strawman argument.

Market manipulation is already present in ESO, and can be seen in items that affect newer and more casual players disproportionately. Crafting and upgrade materials are routinely rounded up and reposted at a mark-up. Guild traders vs. auction house is immaterial, you'd need other measures to address manipulation.

thermatico wrote: »

Think about the current performance of this game. Could you imagine implementing a global auction house? lmao

Straw man. Other MMOs with global auction houses don't seem to be held back by that fact.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

How original. But a horse ain't dead just because you say it is. A dead horse would be something that is definitively and irrevocably decided. There is nothing stopping ZOS from implementing an AH in the future, so the discussion remains valid. If you don't want to discuss, you can just move along.

Lol? There is 1 thing.
Zos. This is one, big, dead horse. If you think not... Gz xD

Diarf wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Get ready for all of the peeps screaming that the Trader System is awesome and can't be manipulated. And that a Auction House would be inviting demons into ESO.

In the meantime, those of us familiar with both systems will tell you that its definitely possible to manipulate ESO's system, but it takes a lot of time and effort, is typically over a short duration and only for certain rarer items. An Auction House would make manipulation much, much easier in comparison.

But that would require you to engage with more than a strawman argument.

Market manipulation is already present in ESO, and can be seen in items that affect newer and more casual players disproportionately. Crafting and upgrade materials are routinely rounded up and reposted at a mark-up. Guild traders vs. auction house is immaterial, you'd need other measures to address manipulation.

thermatico wrote: »

Think about the current performance of this game. Could you imagine implementing a global auction house? lmao

Straw man. Other MMOs with global auction houses don't seem to be held back by that fact.

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

How original. But a horse ain't dead just because you say it is. A dead horse would be something that is definitively and irrevocably decided. There is nothing stopping ZOS from implementing an AH in the future, so the discussion remains valid. If you don't want to discuss, you can just move along.

Lol? There is 1 thing.
Zos. This is one, big, dead horse. If you think not... Gz xD

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

We'll never get an auction house, but it would be nice if they did something to combat the trade mafias which consistently control just about all the spots people actually use. Basically, the people who have the money now will always have the money because it's virtually impossible for anyone smaller to break in.

This wont happen because ZOS doubled down on the multibidding

Grimm13

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

The guild trader system removal would require a rework of how guilds function not only in the base game but also at the social level. Guilds will turn into, as you term it a "stinky fart like air". You're going to kill guild utility for the sake of WoW like guild structures which, let's be honest. Unless you're in an endgame raid guild there is no *** reason to join a guild in WoW whatsoever.

Now the economy is also going to take a hit. You're asking for a system to benefit anyone already good at the current system. You can tout your anonymous "I play MMOs" put I've played WoW, GW1/GW2, and a couple lesser known ones. The AH house either doesn't sell you *** unless you constantly play the auction game. Remember this: all you people whining about spending 15seconds porting to a new zone are really going to have something to cry about when you have to spend 10min every 4 hours updating your trades because someone posted the same things for 5 gold less a stack.

There's also the gold sink ghost. The amount of gold removed from the economy is huge. You can see the affects of the lack of a real gold sink in games like WoW. I remember having epic flying training and mounts on 2 characters after it had first dropped with Burning Crusade when gold was much harder to make but 10-12 years later that's not the same case in game.

People can and will play the game how they want and just because you don't know how to use the trading system doesn't mean it's just mechanics. I've met people that can pay for vet trials and arenas because they're so good at the trading system and they love playing the game like that, a wealthy merchant. If you think those people already benefiting from the trading system now aren't going to benefit exponentially further from an AH you are kidding yourself.

Trade Guilds make up a small portion of guilds in the game. There are other activities to give reason for guilds and membership.

I can tell you, trade guilds are not a hub of socialization. There is the occasional banter and a a small % that follow chat. The traders in my guild would rather place their trades then let then soak while they go off to play the game. Pulling and re-posting is a quick way to lose gold as the amount lost can add up fast which you do not recover from a lowered selling price. (economics 101).

There are more ways to have gold sinks in the game than what ZOS has tried. Some have been suggested in other threads but ZOS can ask and there would be pretty of suggestions. Be a good survey question, What gold sinks would be more preferable in your view? I guess ZOS has found the best gold sink by not addressing issues and having people leave the game because of that. Kind of hard to beat that one.

Just because a person does not like a system does not mean they do not know how to use it. You are making an assumption. These wealthy merchants you refer to are adding to the low or non-existence trade of items that never degrade or need replacement which are ways that nearly all other MMO's control economics.

ZOS's failure is not just with the Trader system but with how they failed to design a healthy economic system. They just looked at the solo game and said we want that as a MMO and never thought of how it needed to be adapted. It shows in their economic approach to the combat balancing and in the systems processing.

wolfie1.0.

barney2525 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

EatYourVegetables wrote: »

I play multiple MMOs. Every time I leave ESO and go to one of the ones with a centralized trading system, its a breath of fresh air. And when I come back to ESO the distributed guild based trading system is a breath of foul, stinky, fart-like air.

Seriously, join a guild and pay dues every week just to be able to sell your stuff? Or hunt around dozens of different traders trying to find what you want to buy? Dumbest system I've ever seen. Its one of the reasons, but not the only one, that I don't generally sub for this game.

Gotcha so you dont really play this game

Wow, imagine that. A cheap shot, but it's only a cheap shot because it is a completely False statement. Whatever the game is, it will require a Mechanic for buying and selling. That is ALL the Trader system is. That is ALL a GAH is. A Mechanic. It has NOTHING to do with actual game play. Spending time using the Trader system is Not Game play, anymore than spending time using a GAH would be.

They are Mechanics. Nothing more. If you think you are 'playing the game' by spending the bulk of your time playing with numbers, you are deluding yourself. You can do that without even logging in to ESO.

What I do while I am in game in a massive multiplayer online game is my business. I am logged in and while doing so I am engaging with the game. Just because it's not what you prefer does not mean that others dont like it. I love trading and even in the games with Global trading functionality I would spend hours at it. Please understand that players that trade primarily are part of the community. We exist, and we will continue to exist until ZOS binds everything

Grimm13

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

You do understand that ZOS doesn't need any kind of player survey since they can pull out all kinds of fancy data and metrics from logs, right?

How do they get a players opinion of the game from these fancy data and metrics from logs? What they see there well people are doing this or that so it must be alright but it's their only option in the game.

They need to generate data that they do not have yet. Data that can only come from asking the questions and receiving a response from the users of the product. It's called a survey. Overtime view points change and issues are addressed so you have to do more survey's if you want track your improvements against it's reception to the base users.

Otherwise you are just pulling numbers out of your hind end and guessing.

Elsonso

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

dagrdagaz_5912 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I have, many times. Not my problem that you've ignored it, and I'm done repeating myself for you. You want to refute the evidence I've offered, go find it.

WOW, the sheer dumbness of posting this.

Again failing to present evidence here, when asked/confronted about it.
Referring to evidence that may be somewhere else, and we have to try find it.
I mean really, makes it very difficult to belief you.

It's not dumb, it's simply wise.

Yeah. Sigh. That it the problem with these Groundhog Day threads. People treat them as new and shiny when all they are is the same thing that happened time and time again, warmed over dying flame. We are well past the ritual beating the deceased horse, at this point. In the end, they are seldom more than a moderator action waiting to happen.

buttaface

Essavias wrote: »

Also, it'll remove the element of deal hunting. Many people enjoy scouting backwater traders and flipping stuff for profits - it's fun.

At least you are honest.

But you left the part out that it's done by a certain "special" kind of player (several of whom are almost certainly posting in this thread, they always come a running to any threatened feedback change to their play money trough) who spends hours riding TTC all day to rush to the bargain and then flip it for very gougy prices. This goes on in sought after motifs and certain gear set items. In the real world, that serves an important function, but with a straight face, do tell how that benefits the player base of a video game overall?

So keep a broken POS system that screws over 99% of the player base so a few people who take their video games and the play money in them a wee bit too seriously can have this "special" kind of fun? No thanks.

jazsper77

With every Auction House thread you will get the 1% of the those who benefit from the current system running to defend it. But let’s look deeper.

1. Most players join Guilds to SOCIALIZE PERIOD. Most of the time it’s the Trading Guild that’s spamming zone and Trading Guilds that SPAM RECRUITMENT with all these sub sections they do. But you still have to pay weekly dues if you joined cuz they listed themselves as social. SCAMMERS and they know it.

A. Guilds will never go away, actually with a AH they may actually function as advertised. RP,PvP,Vamp,WW,Housing,Fishing,etc . All without the fear of being kicked for not paying.

2.Flippers- this isn’t the EFO . These players know that with an Auction house there little shell game will be over. Boo hoo

3. GMs and Officers of large Trade Guilds who walk around Tamriel like their special. With an AH they become nonexistent, buh bye

But as others have said ZOS has made their bed and we all are gonna have to sleep in it. But let’s not FOOL ourselves why they won’t change and why some of you defend this system. PERSONAL GAINS. #FACTS

Hallothiel

alanmatillab16_ESO wrote: »

i for one hate shopping in real life, dragging around from shop to shop? stuff that and I certainly don't want to play Sim Shopping. That said I think there is no need for a global auction house, the best thing to add is a global SEARCH function.

Trade guilds would still have a reason to exist
It would remove some of the dodgy bidding / locking shenanigans from vendors helping trade guilds as it wouldn't matter where your vendor is.
There would be access to more customers.
There would be more competition for prices helping customers.

Out of game sites are rarely up to date if ever, can be shut down by their owners, hacked etc so they are not a reliable alternative, the same with addons. They can be broken by patches, their creators stop supporting them etc.

This. Please gods, this.

And yes, on console. With limited play time so searching a multitude of sites/traders is not my idea of fun.

A decent global trader search would be fabulous.

darthgummibear_ESO

Jhalin wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

We'll never get an auction house, but it would be nice if they did something to combat the trade mafias which consistently control just about all the spots people actually use. Basically, the people who have the money now will always have the money because it's virtually impossible for anyone smaller to break in.

You can get an invite to a trade guild in literally five minutes. And you are more than free to leave immediately after selling what you want.

What about that process is “virtually impossible”?

That's a garbage workaround to an inherently broken system, not a solution. If I have to resort to guild hopping just to sell my crap, it's not worth it.

Jhalin

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

We'll never get an auction house, but it would be nice if they did something to combat the trade mafias which consistently control just about all the spots people actually use. Basically, the people who have the money now will always have the money because it's virtually impossible for anyone smaller to break in.

You can get an invite to a trade guild in literally five minutes. And you are more than free to leave immediately after selling what you want.

What about that process is “virtually impossible”?

That's a garbage workaround to an inherently broken system, not a solution. If I have to resort to guild hopping just to sell my crap, it's not worth it.

It’s not a “workaround”, it’s a functional system for people who don’t sell on the regular.

I made 300k this week by dumping extra motifs I’d been hoarding because I needed the space.

You’re just stubborn and can’t handle that something functions differently than you’re used to.

starkerealm

Grimm13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

You do understand that ZOS doesn't need any kind of player survey since they can pull out all kinds of fancy data and metrics from logs, right?

How do they get a players opinion of the game from these fancy data and metrics from logs? What they see there well people are doing this or that so it must be alright but it's their only option in the game.

They need to generate data that they do not have yet. Data that can only come from asking the questions and receiving a response from the users of the product. It's called a survey. Overtime view points change and issues are addressed so you have to do more survey's if you want track your improvements against it's reception to the base users.

Otherwise you are just pulling numbers out of your hind end and guessing.

In point of fact, @Royaji isn't guessing at all. He (or she) doesn't have access to the data themselves. Neither do I, for that matter. However, ZOS has exact, aggregate, data for a lot of things we have absolutely no access to. Including information like the exact number of times a given item has sold in the Crown Store.

When they're looking at a system like the Traders, you can evaluate based on things like amount of time spent searching, number of successive searchers, how many items sell, average list times (controlled for median prices), and any number of other statistical pieces that, as players, we simply do not have. I know pulling the data is non-trivial, and requires a query that will take a bit of time, but when it comes to the analytics, ZOS has far better info than we do. They don't need to "collect" information, they already have it.

So, you wander in and say, "I'm dissatisfied." Cool. That's legitimate. It's your position. However, if they're also looking at people who are regularly using the system on a daily basis, and seeing the numbers in line with what they want to see, you can throw all the tantrums in the world, but they're not going to stop it just so you can get off.

Raideen

starkerealm wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

You do understand that ZOS doesn't need any kind of player survey since they can pull out all kinds of fancy data and metrics from logs, right?

How do they get a players opinion of the game from these fancy data and metrics from logs? What they see there well people are doing this or that so it must be alright but it's their only option in the game.

They need to generate data that they do not have yet. Data that can only come from asking the questions and receiving a response from the users of the product. It's called a survey. Overtime view points change and issues are addressed so you have to do more survey's if you want track your improvements against it's reception to the base users.

Otherwise you are just pulling numbers out of your hind end and guessing.

In point of fact, @Royaji isn't guessing at all. He (or she) doesn't have access to the data themselves. Neither do I, for that matter. However, ZOS has exact, aggregate, data for a lot of things we have absolutely no access to. Including information like the exact number of times a given item has sold in the Crown Store.

When they're looking at a system like the Traders, you can evaluate based on things like amount of time spent searching, number of successive searchers, how many items sell, average list times (controlled for median prices), and any number of other statistical pieces that, as players, we simply do not have. I know pulling the data is non-trivial, and requires a query that will take a bit of time, but when it comes to the analytics, ZOS has far better info than we do. They don't need to "collect" information, they already have it.

So, you wander in and say, "I'm dissatisfied." Cool. That's legitimate. It's your position. However, if they're also looking at people who are regularly using the system on a daily basis, and seeing the numbers in line with what they want to see, you can throw all the tantrums in the world, but they're not going to stop it just so you can get off.

Except that Grimm is correct and you....well, not so much.

ZO$ has data on sales, sure. They have data coming out the wazzo..but data in contrast to what? Without some form of control, how can they measure if their system is good or bad, or rather if players like it or dislike it.

Just because someone is using the only method (outside of zone spamming) of listing items does not mean they like it. Hell this very thread is indicative of that.

So while ZO$ may have data on how much an item sells, what is popular or not popular, that does not mean they have data on the whether the players enjoy or dislike the system. They also do not have the data from other MMO's where people are not complaining about the global auction system.

The bottom line is that the current guild trade system benefits ZO$ and their sales in the crown store. With the change to how guilds maintain a stall they are making even MORE money through the crown store because the bid amounts have gone up hugely. Some guilds are having to buy crowns and convert them to gold to sustain their stall or location.

And why was all this done? To break up the mafia guilds running the show....which is one of our primary complaints. The Guild Trader system simply does not work. Its young, has not been thoroughly tested like global auction houses have been for decades.

The current system benefits few, is a hassle to most and is extremely open to corruption, more so than a Global system.

But then again....none of this matters, none of these threads matter. All the objection in the world does not matter. Because the design of the current system is to benefit their bottom line and they are not going to change it as long as they are making money. Right or wrong is irrelevant.

THAT being said. I am happy to see people voice their opinions/concerns on both sides.

Rave the Histborn

Grimm13 wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

"For a long time people have been saying they are frustrated with the trading system and express what will make it enjoyable."

It seems to be the same 5 people that also constantly talk about how WoW has an AH system. We get it, you meant to buy WoW but you don't have understanding of letters. It is also the same people saying that the AH system is a perfect system that has always worked 100% as intended, helps new players always and doesn't block them out, your AHs never sit there for months on end, and it has never caused inflation ever. It's like reading from people that have only played on MMO ever.

"Some call this a beating a dead horse, what this really says is "That they acknowledge this a long standing problem that ZOS has yet to address"

Which means that it's not a long standing problem if ZOS isn't addressing the system they made intentionally made like that.

If you can not understand that I was referring to the multitude of posts since Beta. Yes I've been around here since Nov 2013 as well as others. Seems that you had no real counter so you have resorted to baiting and insults.

Guess the stuck in combat bug or the lag in Cyrodil are not long standing problems by your definition and should be kept. So the Dev's should stop wasting their time looking at those.

"Hey guys, been here for 5 years, but I hate the trader and all of the core systems this game entails."

This is why you see things as insults. You don't bring anything remotely productive to the conversation then you expect people to take your opinion seriously. Here's reality for you. Nobody cares that you've been here since final beta if you have a useless opinion and since yours is based on "muh playtime" please understand it is beyond useless.

I've already given counters to an AH system but people like you just dismiss them without answers. "Hey guys, WoW did it, why are we even questioning it?" Isn't explaining your situation, it's the reason we don't use that system.

idk

buttaface wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You may have to go a ways back,

No, I don't. Because all the anti AH BS is drivel

The pro-AH is pretty much the same. What is even more entertaining is they are arguing with players over this when they are not the ones who have the final say. So it seems rather pointless and since it is Zos who wants the current system and it is Zos that has to be convinced. The thread is merely entertainment.

Raideen

idk wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You may have to go a ways back,

No, I don't. Because all the anti AH BS is drivel

The pro-AH is pretty much the same. What is even more entertaining is they are arguing with players over this when they are not the ones who have the final say. So it seems rather pointless and since it is Zos who wants the current system and it is Zos that has to be convinced. The thread is merely entertainment.

I would say less entertainment and more educational.

starkerealm

Raideen wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Grimm13 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

.

buttaface wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

If you go back and actually read those threads, you'll see a lot of people who know what they're talking about explaining how economies work, and a lot of people who do not, begging for a system that would price them out of it inside a week.

No you won't, and ignoring the glaring bandwagon in the above, what you -will- find in all these AH threads across games is hollow broscience platitudes not even amounting to junior college macro micro on the con side.

You may have to go a ways back, and it will involve reading through mind-numbing drivel, but you will probably find it. Unless you are trying to get someone to post something based on information that no one has available to them. Sometimes people ask for "proof" that they know no one can provide because they know that no player can know that information. They do this to try and "win" arguments.

Anyway, if your request is reasonable, what you want, or something close to what you want, is probably there. Pretty much everything has been said, and repeated, already. These threads have become less than worthless over time. The level of new content on this subject dropped each time a new thread was opened. With this thread, as with previous few threads, we are pretty close to ZERO new content.

For the most part you are correct. What these threads do though to tell ZOS that the issue has not gone away. That it is still considered a problem.

I keep saying that ZOS needs to do a quarterly survey done on the as a tab on the daily rewards popup to take the pulse of the players on the standing of the game in their eyes. Not just about this issue but across the board. It certainly would reach more players interacting with the game than any other media.

You do understand that ZOS doesn't need any kind of player survey since they can pull out all kinds of fancy data and metrics from logs, right?

How do they get a players opinion of the game from these fancy data and metrics from logs? What they see there well people are doing this or that so it must be alright but it's their only option in the game.

They need to generate data that they do not have yet. Data that can only come from asking the questions and receiving a response from the users of the product. It's called a survey. Overtime view points change and issues are addressed so you have to do more survey's if you want track your improvements against it's reception to the base users.

Otherwise you are just pulling numbers out of your hind end and guessing.

In point of fact, @Royaji isn't guessing at all. He (or she) doesn't have access to the data themselves. Neither do I, for that matter. However, ZOS has exact, aggregate, data for a lot of things we have absolutely no access to. Including information like the exact number of times a given item has sold in the Crown Store.

When they're looking at a system like the Traders, you can evaluate based on things like amount of time spent searching, number of successive searchers, how many items sell, average list times (controlled for median prices), and any number of other statistical pieces that, as players, we simply do not have. I know pulling the data is non-trivial, and requires a query that will take a bit of time, but when it comes to the analytics, ZOS has far better info than we do. They don't need to "collect" information, they already have it.

So, you wander in and say, "I'm dissatisfied." Cool. That's legitimate. It's your position. However, if they're also looking at people who are regularly using the system on a daily basis, and seeing the numbers in line with what they want to see, you can throw all the tantrums in the world, but they're not going to stop it just so you can get off.

Except that Grimm is correct and you....well, not so much.

ZO$...

I'm going to stop you there. The abbreviation is "ZOS," not "ZO$." If you can't even get basic details right, there's no reason to read the rest of your post.

Jhalin

Raideen wrote: »

idk wrote: »

buttaface wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

You may have to go a ways back,

No, I don't. Because all the anti AH BS is drivel

The pro-AH is pretty much the same. What is even more entertaining is they are arguing with players over this when they are not the ones who have the final say. So it seems rather pointless and since it is Zos who wants the current system and it is Zos that has to be convinced. The thread is merely entertainment.

I would say less entertainment and more educational.

Big lol on that one. You didn’t even have a suggestion for a replacement for the lost gold sink of guild trader bids that wouldn’t screw the entire game community in exchange for slightly more conveniently buying process for common goods. Nor have you given a proper response why you’d want a system that can be 100% automated for the entire market. And you insist a GAH would make everything cheaper despite literally any GAH system displaying price polarization.

The only information you provide is misinformation