Magicka Sorcs Against Ball of Lightning-Updated

HowlKimchi

5.2.3 removed

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

It's very bad idea to add snare immunity to skill which already a great Mobility + Stun thing + some damage.
Even with nerfed aoe cc effect.

Main reason, it's a skill which almost every sorc use anyway.
(with Streak nerfed this morf also become more profitablwe so...)
You don't need anything to sacrifice to get this immunity.
Just cc attacker, do a distance, small damage and than kite or do damage on him.
You, range one with one of the greatest pvp burst and pre-execute in game.

Same issue - Race in Time design.
I asked Zos to not do that but they done it anyway - skill which gives major Expedition and snare immunity at the same time - it's total incompetence.
But, at least u need to have slot for it and immunity is only for 2 seconds (when they were bombarded with our asks to nerf it at that PTS). Race in TIme is still bad designed. We should not have both these effects from 1 skill.

Ball of Lightning is next thing to make Open World PvP great for magsorcs and a garbage for their opponents.
And as a result for gameplay in general.
Even if someone addicted for it's absorbing damage component.
But, current Streak is way more strong imho, unblockable, undoidgeable aoe... BoL weaker option

My thoughts - ball of lightning should provide at Maximum snares/roots cleance, not immunity.
Or, that immunity should come from another skill, like for example Shattering Prison, which is never usable. or Bound Armaments/Aegis which are slotted just for passives at the bar...do we love such skills?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler guys, how u can to not see that? it's same as to give snare immunity for example to nightblade's Shadow image, or templar's Extended ritual, or Warden's Shimmering shield, or in the worst for the game case - to nightblade's Shadowy Disguise... very big mistake.

Have you read 5.2.3?

Galarthor

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All DKs should support this topic with pitchforks in hand.

100% projectile immunity for 3s is rediculous.

Almost as ridiculous as reflecting them back with additional damage for 6 seconds

On a more serious note:
The 3 seconds are far too much. The orb should have a similar effectiveness as a dodge roll. Its purpose is to increase your odds of escaping by mitigating some damage, not to make you immune to ranged DPS 75% of the time.

Make the Orb last 1 to 1.5 seconds but also absorb gap closers. The enemy will still be able to chase the sorc as the orb is right next to where the sorc lands, but it will mitigate the damage and will be less discriminatory against ranged builds as it provides some degree of protection against both ranged and melee builds while escaping.

Should also be comparatively easy from a coding point of view. Just replace the current section of the orb with that of the dodge roll minus the stam cost and you are done.

Just two remarks:

The absorb only happens after you finish BoL, unlike dodge.

If you can't hit them with ranged attacks and can't follow them via Gap Closers, what do you suppose to do to catch them? Run after them?

You would still be able to follow them. You'd just hit that orb right next to the sorc with your gap closer. Sure the sorc could use 5 BoLs in a row and you would not deal any damage to him or her with your gap closers, but neither is the sorc dealing any damage to you while running. And in the end (after those 5 BoL) you will stand right next sorc who is completely out of magicka while you still got stam or magicka left b/c gap closers are far cheaper and can beat that OOM sorc into oblivion.

It's definitely a more balanced approach than the current PTS version which blocks all projectiles for 3 seconds. With a fatigue of 4 second that means you can keep yourself immune to projectiles 75% of the fight without any cost increase!

Where did you saw "cheap" gap closers last time? Critical rush is 3k+ stamina cost, and given that stamina pool is smaller, you will run out of stamina faster then sorc out of his necropotence pool. Then couple of stuns and you are as good as dead without stamina to break free and to apply pressure.

No way gap closer can be spammed without big consequences to sustain.

Cost for Streak and Gap Closers is roughly the same. But the cost for streak increases by 33% after each use within 4 seconds.

1) Cost increase from Fatigue is roughly 1200 each time (At 5 pieces Light Armor, a Cost Reduction glyph, and 6% Cost reduction from Sorc passive). That means over the corse of 5 consecutive Streaks the sorc spends 12000 magicka more than the gap closer-spammer spends stamina to counter it.

2) The fact that stam builds can stack the far more potent weapon damage and don't have to waste stats to increase the potency of their defensive abilities and as such can afford smaller resource pools is hardly a viable agruement for why stam build gap closers should be better than mag build gap openers - i.e. why gap closers should deal damage, while the gap opener offers no equvalent benefits.

Yes. But initial statement was that "gap closers are far cheaper and can be spammed". No, they are not cheap and in practice they can't be spammed. Try "spamming" it and you will find yourself without stamina very fast. Don't forget that break free and vigor and rally and all abilities are from the same pool.. and nothing prevents sorc to stun player which uses gap closer. This will allow to reset escalating cost. If you were withdrawing in Cyro and then some new fresh player arrived, yeah he can spam gap closer for a while..
but if it was same player who you were fighting in 1v1.. no way he'll have enough stamina to outspam streak spam. And yeah there is such thing as terrain and LOS. You may streak behind LOS and gap closer won't help at all. You may stun and use streak 2 times and you will be out of range of gap closer...

So only stamDK with "superior" gap closer in form of take flight have some chances, maybe templars with toppling charge too... other classes and specs... no chance.

Granted, the initial statement could have been less ambiguous. While I had overall cost in mind, I can see how it can be understood the way you understood it.

Other abilities might also cost stamina, but for the sorc their other abilities also cost magicka.

Stunning the other player and then streaking just gets you ahead by 1 Streak, i.e. 15 meters. Gap closers are 22 meters. So the sorc is still in range. Otherwise, streaking through somebody would be a guaranteed escape, which it is not. Global cooldowns ensure that. So your "stun and streak 2 times and get out of gap closer range is a myth".

t = 0: Sorc stuns enemy
t = 0.5: enemy breaks free
t = 1: sorc streaks (->15m between sorc and enemy)
t = 1.5: enemy uses gap closer (-> 0m between sorc and enemy)

for t in seconds and a global cooldown of 1 second

And yes, the stam player you have been fighting can outspam the streak b/c
(1) as shown above, spamming streak is more expensive
(2) like the stam build, the sorc also used up quite a lot of resource fighting
(3) stam builds can better sustain in PvP than mag builds

Terrain and LOS?
1) Streak catapults the sorc forward in a straight line. Which means, if you were at the starting point, then you have a clear line of sight to the end point of the streak. Which in turn means you can connect with the sorc via gap closers as the line of sight is not interupted.

2) Streaking makes the sorc lose all momentum so that gap closers can reliably connect. Which means, when the sorc reaches end point of the streak they are stuck in place a brief moment and your gap closer can connect. So no breaking LOS if the gap closer is not sleeping.

3) Streak does not work at all uphill. And Streak works very poorly downhill as it first moves you forward and then downwards, giving you plenty of time for your gap closer.

4) Streak, unlike the NB's Shade, does not move you through obstacles. So no breaking LOS here.

Mayrael

Galarthor wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All DKs should support this topic with pitchforks in hand.

100% projectile immunity for 3s is rediculous.

Almost as ridiculous as reflecting them back with additional damage for 6 seconds

On a more serious note:
The 3 seconds are far too much. The orb should have a similar effectiveness as a dodge roll. Its purpose is to increase your odds of escaping by mitigating some damage, not to make you immune to ranged DPS 75% of the time.

Make the Orb last 1 to 1.5 seconds but also absorb gap closers. The enemy will still be able to chase the sorc as the orb is right next to where the sorc lands, but it will mitigate the damage and will be less discriminatory against ranged builds as it provides some degree of protection against both ranged and melee builds while escaping.

Should also be comparatively easy from a coding point of view. Just replace the current section of the orb with that of the dodge roll minus the stam cost and you are done.

Just two remarks:

The absorb only happens after you finish BoL, unlike dodge.

If you can't hit them with ranged attacks and can't follow them via Gap Closers, what do you suppose to do to catch them? Run after them?

You would still be able to follow them. You'd just hit that orb right next to the sorc with your gap closer. Sure the sorc could use 5 BoLs in a row and you would not deal any damage to him or her with your gap closers, but neither is the sorc dealing any damage to you while running. And in the end (after those 5 BoL) you will stand right next sorc who is completely out of magicka while you still got stam or magicka left b/c gap closers are far cheaper and can beat that OOM sorc into oblivion.

It's definitely a more balanced approach than the current PTS version which blocks all projectiles for 3 seconds. With a fatigue of 4 second that means you can keep yourself immune to projectiles 75% of the fight without any cost increase!

Where did you saw "cheap" gap closers last time? Critical rush is 3k+ stamina cost, and given that stamina pool is smaller, you will run out of stamina faster then sorc out of his necropotence pool. Then couple of stuns and you are as good as dead without stamina to break free and to apply pressure.

No way gap closer can be spammed without big consequences to sustain.

Cost for Streak and Gap Closers is roughly the same. But the cost for streak increases by 33% after each use within 4 seconds.

1) Cost increase from Fatigue is roughly 1200 each time (At 5 pieces Light Armor, a Cost Reduction glyph, and 6% Cost reduction from Sorc passive). That means over the corse of 5 consecutive Streaks the sorc spends 12000 magicka more than the gap closer-spammer spends stamina to counter it.

2) The fact that stam builds can stack the far more potent weapon damage and don't have to waste stats to increase the potency of their defensive abilities and as such can afford smaller resource pools is hardly a viable agruement for why stam build gap closers should be better than mag build gap openers - i.e. why gap closers should deal damage, while the gap opener offers no equvalent benefits.

Yes. But initial statement was that "gap closers are far cheaper and can be spammed". No, they are not cheap and in practice they can't be spammed. Try "spamming" it and you will find yourself without stamina very fast. Don't forget that break free and vigor and rally and all abilities are from the same pool.. and nothing prevents sorc to stun player which uses gap closer. This will allow to reset escalating cost. If you were withdrawing in Cyro and then some new fresh player arrived, yeah he can spam gap closer for a while..
but if it was same player who you were fighting in 1v1.. no way he'll have enough stamina to outspam streak spam. And yeah there is such thing as terrain and LOS. You may streak behind LOS and gap closer won't help at all. You may stun and use streak 2 times and you will be out of range of gap closer...

So only stamDK with "superior" gap closer in form of take flight have some chances, maybe templars with toppling charge too... other classes and specs... no chance.

Granted, the initial statement could have been less ambiguous. While I had overall cost in mind, I can see how it can be understood the way you understood it.

Other abilities might also cost stamina, but for the sorc their other abilities also cost magicka.

Stunning the other player and then streaking just gets you ahead by 1 Streak, i.e. 15 meters. Gap closers are 22 meters. So the sorc is still in range. Otherwise, streaking through somebody would be a guaranteed escape, which it is not. Global cooldowns ensure that. So your "stun and streak 2 times and get out of gap closer range is a myth".

t = 0: Sorc stuns enemy
t = 0.5: enemy breaks free
t = 1: sorc streaks (->15m between sorc and enemy)
t = 1.5: enemy uses gap closer (-> 0m between sorc and enemy)

for t in seconds and a global cooldown of 1 second

And yes, the stam player you have been fighting can outspam the streak b/c
(1) as shown above, spamming streak is more expensive
(2) like the stam build, the sorc also used up quite a lot of resource fighting
(3) stam builds can better sustain in PvP than mag builds

Terrain and LOS?
1) Streak catapults the sorc forward in a straight line. Which means, if you were at the starting point, then you have a clear line of sight to the end point of the streak. Which in turn means you can connect with the sorc via gap closers as the line of sight is not interupted.

2) Streaking makes the sorc lose all momentum so that gap closers can reliably connect. Which means, when the sorc reaches end point of the streak they are stuck in place a brief moment and your gap closer can connect. So no breaking LOS if the gap closer is not sleeping.

3) Streak does not work at all uphill. And Streak works very poorly downhill as it first moves you forward and then downwards, giving you plenty of time for your gap closer.

4) Streak, unlike the NB's Shade, does not move you through obstacles. So no breaking LOS here.

Magblade mian here, former sorc I think 5.2.3 changes make it pretty fair, one very good defensive morph, second one good ofensive morph. And you can tell very fast whenever you see good or bad sorc. Good one will try to use bolt escape to make advantage of LoS, bad one will try to bolt away in a straight line. In general bolt escape has its counters but they are not 100% guaranteed, which is good because skill that can be always countered is a bad skill. IMHO we should leave BoL and Streak as they are on PTS right now and see how it will work on live.

JusticeSouldier

HaruKamui wrote: »

5.2.3 removed

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

It's very bad idea to add snare immunity to skill which already a great Mobility + Stun thing + some damage.
Even with nerfed aoe cc effect.

Main reason, it's a skill which almost every sorc use anyway.
(with Streak nerfed this morf also become more profitablwe so...)
You don't need anything to sacrifice to get this immunity.
Just cc attacker, do a distance, small damage and than kite or do damage on him.
You, range one with one of the greatest pvp burst and pre-execute in game.

Same issue - Race in Time design.
I asked Zos to not do that but they done it anyway - skill which gives major Expedition and snare immunity at the same time - it's total incompetence.
But, at least u need to have slot for it and immunity is only for 2 seconds (when they were bombarded with our asks to nerf it at that PTS). Race in TIme is still bad designed. We should not have both these effects from 1 skill.

Ball of Lightning is next thing to make Open World PvP great for magsorcs and a garbage for their opponents.
And as a result for gameplay in general.
Even if someone addicted for it's absorbing damage component.
But, current Streak is way more strong imho, unblockable, undoidgeable aoe... BoL weaker option

My thoughts - ball of lightning should provide at Maximum snares/roots cleance, not immunity.
Or, that immunity should come from another skill, like for example Shattering Prison, which is never usable. or Bound Armaments/Aegis which are slotted just for passives at the bar...do we love such skills?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler guys, how u can to not see that? it's same as to give snare immunity for example to nightblade's Shadow image, or templar's Extended ritual, or Warden's Shimmering shield, or in the worst for the game case - to nightblade's Shadowy Disguise... very big mistake.

Have you read 5.2.3?

5.2.3: " It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool. "

what is your question?

Chilly-McFreeze

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

5.2.3 removed

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

It's very bad idea to add snare immunity to skill which already a great Mobility + Stun thing + some damage.
Even with nerfed aoe cc effect.

Main reason, it's a skill which almost every sorc use anyway.
(with Streak nerfed this morf also become more profitablwe so...)
You don't need anything to sacrifice to get this immunity.
Just cc attacker, do a distance, small damage and than kite or do damage on him.
You, range one with one of the greatest pvp burst and pre-execute in game.

Same issue - Race in Time design.
I asked Zos to not do that but they done it anyway - skill which gives major Expedition and snare immunity at the same time - it's total incompetence.
But, at least u need to have slot for it and immunity is only for 2 seconds (when they were bombarded with our asks to nerf it at that PTS). Race in TIme is still bad designed. We should not have both these effects from 1 skill.

Ball of Lightning is next thing to make Open World PvP great for magsorcs and a garbage for their opponents.
And as a result for gameplay in general.
Even if someone addicted for it's absorbing damage component.
But, current Streak is way more strong imho, unblockable, undoidgeable aoe... BoL weaker option

My thoughts - ball of lightning should provide at Maximum snares/roots cleance, not immunity.
Or, that immunity should come from another skill, like for example Shattering Prison, which is never usable. or Bound Armaments/Aegis which are slotted just for passives at the bar...do we love such skills?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler guys, how u can to not see that? it's same as to give snare immunity for example to nightblade's Shadow image, or templar's Extended ritual, or Warden's Shimmering shield, or in the worst for the game case - to nightblade's Shadowy Disguise... very big mistake.

Have you read 5.2.3?

5.2.3: " It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool. "

what is your question?

Bolt Escape

Ball of Lightning (morph):

This morph no longer stuns enemies at its end location. It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool.

If you wouldn't have deliberately cut out what you were (or seem to be) complaining about in the first place, you would have understood his question.

JusticeSouldier

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

5.2.3 removed

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

It's very bad idea to add snare immunity to skill which already a great Mobility + Stun thing + some damage.
Even with nerfed aoe cc effect.

Main reason, it's a skill which almost every sorc use anyway.
(with Streak nerfed this morf also become more profitablwe so...)
You don't need anything to sacrifice to get this immunity.
Just cc attacker, do a distance, small damage and than kite or do damage on him.
You, range one with one of the greatest pvp burst and pre-execute in game.

Same issue - Race in Time design.
I asked Zos to not do that but they done it anyway - skill which gives major Expedition and snare immunity at the same time - it's total incompetence.
But, at least u need to have slot for it and immunity is only for 2 seconds (when they were bombarded with our asks to nerf it at that PTS). Race in TIme is still bad designed. We should not have both these effects from 1 skill.

Ball of Lightning is next thing to make Open World PvP great for magsorcs and a garbage for their opponents.
And as a result for gameplay in general.
Even if someone addicted for it's absorbing damage component.
But, current Streak is way more strong imho, unblockable, undoidgeable aoe... BoL weaker option

My thoughts - ball of lightning should provide at Maximum snares/roots cleance, not immunity.
Or, that immunity should come from another skill, like for example Shattering Prison, which is never usable. or Bound Armaments/Aegis which are slotted just for passives at the bar...do we love such skills?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler guys, how u can to not see that? it's same as to give snare immunity for example to nightblade's Shadow image, or templar's Extended ritual, or Warden's Shimmering shield, or in the worst for the game case - to nightblade's Shadowy Disguise... very big mistake.

Have you read 5.2.3?

5.2.3: " It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool. "

what is your question?

Bolt Escape

Ball of Lightning (morph):

This morph no longer stuns enemies at its end location. It does retain the new addition of gaining Snare and Immobilize immunity after casting, to help stand this morph out as a defensive escape tool.

If you wouldn't have deliberately cut out what you were (or seem to be) complaining about in the first place, you would have understood his question.

if u read what i wrote instead of what your inmagination showed u instead my words, u will discover that I:
1. wasn't "complaining"
2. didn't write nothing about "it's end location", i wrote about cc it provide.

Another questions?

Chilly-McFreeze

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

2. didn't write nothing about "it's end location", i wrote about cc it provide.

Another questions?

Yes, sir. One more: Do you realize that Ball of Lightning provides no CC anymore?

josh.lackey_ESO

They should make the Ball eat gap closers, too. Otherwise, without the origin stun, this will be useless as an escape tool.

JusticeSouldier

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

2. didn't write nothing about "it's end location", i wrote about cc it provide.

Another questions?

Yes, sir. One more: Do you realize that Ball of Lightning provides no CC anymore?

I didn't tested it at 5.2.3 PTS.
Are u sure they didn't recovered cc at start location when removed it now from end one?
If it have no cc now at all with this morf it's ~ fair.
Guys, someone tested it already?

Galarthor

Mayrael wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

All DKs should support this topic with pitchforks in hand.

100% projectile immunity for 3s is rediculous.

Almost as ridiculous as reflecting them back with additional damage for 6 seconds

On a more serious note:
The 3 seconds are far too much. The orb should have a similar effectiveness as a dodge roll. Its purpose is to increase your odds of escaping by mitigating some damage, not to make you immune to ranged DPS 75% of the time.

Make the Orb last 1 to 1.5 seconds but also absorb gap closers. The enemy will still be able to chase the sorc as the orb is right next to where the sorc lands, but it will mitigate the damage and will be less discriminatory against ranged builds as it provides some degree of protection against both ranged and melee builds while escaping.

Should also be comparatively easy from a coding point of view. Just replace the current section of the orb with that of the dodge roll minus the stam cost and you are done.

Just two remarks:

The absorb only happens after you finish BoL, unlike dodge.

If you can't hit them with ranged attacks and can't follow them via Gap Closers, what do you suppose to do to catch them? Run after them?

You would still be able to follow them. You'd just hit that orb right next to the sorc with your gap closer. Sure the sorc could use 5 BoLs in a row and you would not deal any damage to him or her with your gap closers, but neither is the sorc dealing any damage to you while running. And in the end (after those 5 BoL) you will stand right next sorc who is completely out of magicka while you still got stam or magicka left b/c gap closers are far cheaper and can beat that OOM sorc into oblivion.

It's definitely a more balanced approach than the current PTS version which blocks all projectiles for 3 seconds. With a fatigue of 4 second that means you can keep yourself immune to projectiles 75% of the fight without any cost increase!

Where did you saw "cheap" gap closers last time? Critical rush is 3k+ stamina cost, and given that stamina pool is smaller, you will run out of stamina faster then sorc out of his necropotence pool. Then couple of stuns and you are as good as dead without stamina to break free and to apply pressure.

No way gap closer can be spammed without big consequences to sustain.

Cost for Streak and Gap Closers is roughly the same. But the cost for streak increases by 33% after each use within 4 seconds.

1) Cost increase from Fatigue is roughly 1200 each time (At 5 pieces Light Armor, a Cost Reduction glyph, and 6% Cost reduction from Sorc passive). That means over the corse of 5 consecutive Streaks the sorc spends 12000 magicka more than the gap closer-spammer spends stamina to counter it.

2) The fact that stam builds can stack the far more potent weapon damage and don't have to waste stats to increase the potency of their defensive abilities and as such can afford smaller resource pools is hardly a viable agruement for why stam build gap closers should be better than mag build gap openers - i.e. why gap closers should deal damage, while the gap opener offers no equvalent benefits.

Yes. But initial statement was that "gap closers are far cheaper and can be spammed". No, they are not cheap and in practice they can't be spammed. Try "spamming" it and you will find yourself without stamina very fast. Don't forget that break free and vigor and rally and all abilities are from the same pool.. and nothing prevents sorc to stun player which uses gap closer. This will allow to reset escalating cost. If you were withdrawing in Cyro and then some new fresh player arrived, yeah he can spam gap closer for a while..
but if it was same player who you were fighting in 1v1.. no way he'll have enough stamina to outspam streak spam. And yeah there is such thing as terrain and LOS. You may streak behind LOS and gap closer won't help at all. You may stun and use streak 2 times and you will be out of range of gap closer...

So only stamDK with "superior" gap closer in form of take flight have some chances, maybe templars with toppling charge too... other classes and specs... no chance.

Granted, the initial statement could have been less ambiguous. While I had overall cost in mind, I can see how it can be understood the way you understood it.

Other abilities might also cost stamina, but for the sorc their other abilities also cost magicka.

Stunning the other player and then streaking just gets you ahead by 1 Streak, i.e. 15 meters. Gap closers are 22 meters. So the sorc is still in range. Otherwise, streaking through somebody would be a guaranteed escape, which it is not. Global cooldowns ensure that. So your "stun and streak 2 times and get out of gap closer range is a myth".

t = 0: Sorc stuns enemy
t = 0.5: enemy breaks free
t = 1: sorc streaks (->15m between sorc and enemy)
t = 1.5: enemy uses gap closer (-> 0m between sorc and enemy)

for t in seconds and a global cooldown of 1 second

And yes, the stam player you have been fighting can outspam the streak b/c
(1) as shown above, spamming streak is more expensive
(2) like the stam build, the sorc also used up quite a lot of resource fighting
(3) stam builds can better sustain in PvP than mag builds

Terrain and LOS?
1) Streak catapults the sorc forward in a straight line. Which means, if you were at the starting point, then you have a clear line of sight to the end point of the streak. Which in turn means you can connect with the sorc via gap closers as the line of sight is not interupted.

2) Streaking makes the sorc lose all momentum so that gap closers can reliably connect. Which means, when the sorc reaches end point of the streak they are stuck in place a brief moment and your gap closer can connect. So no breaking LOS if the gap closer is not sleeping.

3) Streak does not work at all uphill. And Streak works very poorly downhill as it first moves you forward and then downwards, giving you plenty of time for your gap closer.

4) Streak, unlike the NB's Shade, does not move you through obstacles. So no breaking LOS here.

Magblade mian here, former sorc I think 5.2.3 changes make it pretty fair, one very good defensive morph, second one good ofensive morph. And you can tell very fast whenever you see good or bad sorc. Good one will try to use bolt escape to make advantage of LoS, bad one will try to bolt away in a straight line. In general bolt escape has its counters but they are not 100% guaranteed, which is good because skill that can be always countered is a bad skill. IMHO we should leave BoL and Streak as they are on PTS right now and see how it will work on live.

I like how ZOS is trying to make both morphs viable and more distinct.However, the 3 second counter to projectiles basically means you will be unkillable by projectile based builds and the lack of stun at the starting location means you are pretty much a free kill for gap closer builds. That's why I suggest BoL should only offer a short window of protection BUT also absorb gap closers.

Having it absorb gap closers means that the gap opener and the gap closer perfectly cancel each out out. Whereas having gap closers still hitting the target means the gap closers traverses a distance of 15 (to 22m) and deals damage while the gap opener only traverses a distance of 15m. That means the gap closer will always outperform the gap opener AND you will never really be able to get some distance between you and your enemies b/c you will constantly have to counter the damage from the gap opener. In other words, you will have to use 2 abilities and 2 global cooldowns where the gap opener user only has to use 1 ability and 1 global cooldown. That's not balanced.

CambionDaemon

Streak should have it's range doubled, made omni-directional and become a magical dodge. Leaving BoL to be a utility/offensive skill or the other way around. With the current state of bubbles (shields), Sorcerers need a way to get out of combat and back at range, this would also stop them being so reliant on bubbles.

pieratsos

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Galarthor

CambionDaemon wrote: »

Streak should have it's range doubled, made omni-directional and become a magical dodge. Leaving BoL to be a utility/offensive skill or the other way around. With the current state of bubbles (shields), Sorcerers need a way to get out of combat and back at range, this would also stop them being so reliant on bubbles.

Doubling the range is not going to happen!

While shields are in a sorry state both cost-wise and effectiveness/potency-wise compared to stamina builds' dodge, block, and high resistances due to OP heavy armor stamina sets, doubling the range would put the sorc beyond the reach of a gap closer with just a single streak. As this has no counter, it would be almost as OP as wall- and floor-breaking shade of NBs.

The dodge part and the omi-directional part would be nice and balance though.

ToRelax

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

CambionDaemon

Galarthor wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

Streak should have it's range doubled, made omni-directional and become a magical dodge. Leaving BoL to be a utility/offensive skill or the other way around. With the current state of bubbles (shields), Sorcerers need a way to get out of combat and back at range, this would also stop them being so reliant on bubbles.

Doubling the range is not going to happen!

While shields are in a sorry state both cost-wise and effectiveness/potency-wise compared to stamina builds' dodge, block, and high resistances due to OP heavy armor stamina sets, doubling the range would put the sorc beyond the reach of a gap closer with just a single streak. As this has no counter, it would be almost as OP as wall- and floor-breaking shade of NBs.

The dodge part and the omi-directional part would be nice and balance though.

Maybe not exactly doubled (for some reason I thought Streak was 15 metres), increased would have been a better word. But gap closers need to have their range reduced, ranged builds have no way to keep an enemy at range.

Gap closer 22 metres
Melee range 5-7 metres

That immediately put a ranged character in melee, the whole point of Cloak is to reposition in combat (talking PvP), Streak is the same, but with the range of gap closers a Sorcerer is immediately back in melee and Cloak has about 20 counters. With increased range the Sorcerer has a chance to actually stun/CC/etc his attacker before they can get to him.

The whole reason that Sorcerer are forced to wear light armour is because they are supposed to fight at range, that doesn't happen because gap closers have to greater a range.

I agree completely that it would have to properly monitored to make sure that it isn't OP, but something has to be done to help Sorcerer survivability, especially non-pet (no other class heals), and to get them away from bubbles.

ToRelax

CambionDaemon wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

CambionDaemon wrote: »

Streak should have it's range doubled, made omni-directional and become a magical dodge. Leaving BoL to be a utility/offensive skill or the other way around. With the current state of bubbles (shields), Sorcerers need a way to get out of combat and back at range, this would also stop them being so reliant on bubbles.

Doubling the range is not going to happen!

While shields are in a sorry state both cost-wise and effectiveness/potency-wise compared to stamina builds' dodge, block, and high resistances due to OP heavy armor stamina sets, doubling the range would put the sorc beyond the reach of a gap closer with just a single streak. As this has no counter, it would be almost as OP as wall- and floor-breaking shade of NBs.

The dodge part and the omi-directional part would be nice and balance though.

Maybe not exactly doubled (for some reason I thought Streak was 15 metres), increased would have been a better word. But gap closers need to have their range reduced, ranged builds have no way to keep an enemy at range.

Gap closer 22 metres
Melee range 5-7 metres

That immediately put a ranged character in melee, the whole point of Cloak is to reposition in combat (talking PvP), Streak is the same, but with the range of gap closers a Sorcerer is immediately back in melee and Cloak has about 20 counters. With increased range the Sorcerer has a chance to actually stun/CC/etc his attacker before they can get to him.

The whole reason that Sorcerer are forced to wear light armour is because they are supposed to fight at range, that doesn't happen because gap closers have to greater a range.

I agree completely that it would have to properly monitored to make sure that it isn't OP, but something has to be done to help Sorcerer survivability, especially non-pet (no other class heals), and to get them away from bubbles.

I don't like the mass of spammable gapclosers in this game either, but reducing the range is just going to make them useless.

josh.lackey_ESO

Does the BoL orb absorb projectiles that are mid-air when you teleport? Or do they change direction in mid-air to hit your new location?

ToRelax

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Does the BoL orb absorb projectiles that are mid-air when you teleport? Or do they change direction in mid-air to hit your new location?

It doesn't.
The way it works is that when you fire a projectile, and the target is close enough to an enemy BoL, your attack will be redirected into it.

Galarthor

ToRelax wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Does the BoL orb absorb projectiles that are mid-air when you teleport? Or do they change direction in mid-air to hit your new location?

It doesn't.
The way it works is that when you fire a projectile, and the target is close enough to an enemy BoL, your attack will be redirected into it.

Simple solution:
Either also make the sorc dodge while using BoL OR have the Ball absorb everything from the start of the BoL animation to 1 second after.

pieratsos

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

ToRelax

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

pieratsos

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

ToRelax

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Nah. The absorb can have acceptable limitations and still be worth it's cost. If you want to accuse me of producing a fallacy, show where I went wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

"One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds" is obnoxious. We agree on that. Trying to put that into my mouth, now that is a strawman.
I am not saying the skill as a whole is useless if the absorb is weak. The skill is still extremely useful in it's unmorphed state! But a morph effect that doesn't justify the cost of casting it by itself doesn't compare well to Streak and frankly, would be a boring morph.

pieratsos wrote: »

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is an additional layer of defense. But with it not working retroactively, the absorb has to last longer than one second to be worth casting in crucial moments.
I couldn't find any such comments of yours, either.

pieratsos

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Nah. The absorb can have acceptable limitations and still be worth it's cost. If you want to accuse me of producing a fallacy, show where I went wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

"One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds" is obnoxious. We agree on that. Trying to put that into my mouth, now that is a strawman.
I am not saying the skill as a whole is useless if the absorb is weak. The skill is still extremely useful in it's unmorphed state! But a morph effect that doesn't justify the cost of casting it by itself doesn't compare well to Streak and frankly, would be a boring morph.

pieratsos wrote: »

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is an additional layer of defense. But with it not working retroactively, the absorb has to last longer than one second to be worth casting in crucial moments.
I couldn't find any such comments of yours, either.

If the absorb lasts 3s+ it will shut down ranged builds. If that is what you are suggesting then you are essentially suggesting to shut down ranged builds whether that is ur intended target or not. No strawman right there.

The skill should justify the cost of casting it. But it should do that based on what it gives you overall. Not based on the absorb alone. It should not justify the cost based on the absorb alone.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is indeed a layer of defense. But not a reliable source of defence against ranged builds. There is a big difference between the two and that is the whole freaking point. The skill should give you the ability to absorb projectiles in crucial moments to help you survive if you cast the skill at the right time. But it should not get to the point where you can reliably use it like a shield to absorb everything coming at you from range cause it becomes obnoxious and boring and that is exactly what a long duration will do.

Chilly-McFreeze

From another thread:

universal_wrath wrote: »

One thing about and I'm not sure if bugg or inteneded is the fact it does not grant snare and immoblization immunity, it only removed the currently debuffs you have that is about it.

Can anyone confirm that it does not grant immunity?

ToRelax

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Nah. The absorb can have acceptable limitations and still be worth it's cost. If you want to accuse me of producing a fallacy, show where I went wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

"One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds" is obnoxious. We agree on that. Trying to put that into my mouth, now that is a strawman.
I am not saying the skill as a whole is useless if the absorb is weak. The skill is still extremely useful in it's unmorphed state! But a morph effect that doesn't justify the cost of casting it by itself doesn't compare well to Streak and frankly, would be a boring morph.

pieratsos wrote: »

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is an additional layer of defense. But with it not working retroactively, the absorb has to last longer than one second to be worth casting in crucial moments.
I couldn't find any such comments of yours, either.

If the absorb lasts 3s+ it will shut down ranged builds. If that is what you are suggesting then you are essentially suggesting to shut down ranged builds whether that is ur intended target or not. No strawman right there.

The skill should justify the cost of casting it. But it should do that based on what it gives you overall. Not based on the absorb alone. It should not justify the cost based on the absorb alone.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is indeed a layer of defense. But not a reliable source of defence against ranged builds. There is a big difference between the two and that is the whole freaking point. The skill should give you the ability to absorb projectiles in crucial moments to help you survive if you cast the skill at the right time. But it should not get to the point where you can reliably use it like a shield to absorb everything coming at you from range cause it becomes obnoxious and boring and that is exactly what a long duration will do.

That is not what I am suggesting. It is also your opinion and dependent on the meta. Like I said, don't put words in my mouth.

The skill should be competitive with the other morph and feel like a significant upgrade to the base ability. Plenty of skills are used mostly for their added morph effects some or all of the time.

pieratsos

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Nah. The absorb can have acceptable limitations and still be worth it's cost. If you want to accuse me of producing a fallacy, show where I went wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

"One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds" is obnoxious. We agree on that. Trying to put that into my mouth, now that is a strawman.
I am not saying the skill as a whole is useless if the absorb is weak. The skill is still extremely useful in it's unmorphed state! But a morph effect that doesn't justify the cost of casting it by itself doesn't compare well to Streak and frankly, would be a boring morph.

pieratsos wrote: »

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is an additional layer of defense. But with it not working retroactively, the absorb has to last longer than one second to be worth casting in crucial moments.
I couldn't find any such comments of yours, either.

If the absorb lasts 3s+ it will shut down ranged builds. If that is what you are suggesting then you are essentially suggesting to shut down ranged builds whether that is ur intended target or not. No strawman right there.

The skill should justify the cost of casting it. But it should do that based on what it gives you overall. Not based on the absorb alone. It should not justify the cost based on the absorb alone.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is indeed a layer of defense. But not a reliable source of defence against ranged builds. There is a big difference between the two and that is the whole freaking point. The skill should give you the ability to absorb projectiles in crucial moments to help you survive if you cast the skill at the right time. But it should not get to the point where you can reliably use it like a shield to absorb everything coming at you from range cause it becomes obnoxious and boring and that is exactly what a long duration will do.

That is not what I am suggesting. It is also your opinion and dependent on the meta. Like I said, don't put words in my mouth.

The skill should be competitive with the other morph and feel like a significant upgrade to the base ability. Plenty of skills are used mostly for their added morph effects some or all of the time.

Except the point i addressed initially is this

ToRelax wrote: »

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

I mean if thats not what you meant i apologize but based on that comment you seem to think that the skill should be worth casting just for the absorb which would mean that the skill becomes a reliable source of defence like a shield against projectiles which will make the skill obnoxious, shutting down ranged builds.

Yes the skill should be competitive and considering that its a defining class skill i think it should be very powerful. So if the skill is somehow underperforming then by all means buff it, but not giving it a long lasting absorb cause thats dumb.

I think the skill should retain its stun at the origin and have a very short lasting orb to reinforce that crucial moment use while also having a snare and root immunity. That is a significant upgrade from the base ability and makes it different from the more offensive streak.

ToRelax

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Magsorc main here. The current PTS version of BoL is clearly and severely overloaded.

The mag projectile absorb has always been an extremely unhealthy mechanic with its potential to completely shutdown certain builds, not unlike the old wings.

Conversely, snare immunity is a useful and healthy addition to the skill, which the class toolkit could certainly use... but the total power of the skill is now way over budget.

Leave the snare immunity, but reduce the projectile absorb to 0.5s. It's now still a good tool to nullify ranged burst, but you have to be diligent with timing.

I wouldn't even argue with the absorb being removed entirely.

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

Well that's the point. It shouldn't justify the cost just for the orb cause that would be insane. You would have the power to shut down ranged builds on the most mobile class which has a powerful ranged offensive toolkit. That's dumb.

The skill is supposed to be used for escaping. In that scenario a 0.5 - 1s absorb is enough to nullify ranged dmg coming at you while you are using the skill making you escape easier.

Streak is used defensively and to escape. I do think BoL should be worth it to be cast defensively without running away.

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

They should get rid of the range absorption and stun. Then extend the range of BoL to 28 meters. That way it can actually be used to escape and not offensively.

Even if this were somehow balanced, it would require serious terrain changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

simple fix, give a 25% ranged dmg mitigation regardless off if you stay by your ball for 4s and remove the 100% mit
keep the other buffs this patch

Currently it is a sometimes very potent group support tool, and will be even more so when it can absorb stamina skills. It's also one of few ways to work together cross faction when the situation calls for it. I wouldn't want to lose that, personally.

Escaping, repositioning, absorbing projectiles at crucial moments and breaking snares is actually called defensive use of the skill.

Shutting down ranged builds on a ranged class with just one button isn't defence. It's dumb.

Maybe you should point out to me where I suggested BoL should shut down ranged builds. I can't seem to find the comment.
Escaping may be a "defensive" action, but it's not the defense that allows you to stay in fight and keep on pressure. I admit in a Sorcerer thread maybe I should have made that distinction more clear.
Repositioning, sure, but Streak does that just as well while giving more breathing room against melee opponents due to the stun.
Breaking snares merely helps to escape or reposition; though not much for the latter when you teleport anyway.
So, I wish to keep the BoL morph effect actually worth it within an ongoing fight, just like Streak. 0.5 seconds non retroactively absorbing projectiles doesn't do ***. You spend more time on the GCD than your opponent has to fill before the next projectile.

If the absorb alone has such a duration to the point where it justifies the cost of the skill then you are prety much shutting down ranged builds. Simply put, just casting the skill and absorbing everything they throw at you is lazy and dumb.

The skill should have a high skill cap and reward good use of the skill. Even with 0.5-1s duration it does plenty if the skill is used smart. The absorb on sorc should be there for crucial moments, not a freaking reliable form of defence to negate all projectiles coming at you.

That's like saying if a heal is worth it's costs, it is shutting down builds who deal damage. This skill has limitations and it needs to, and people who have played this game for a long time will remember how polarizing it used to be. That doesn't mean it should just be a *** morph instead. 1 second and under is atrociously bad if it doesn't force miss projectiles on cast.

No thats not like saying if a heal is worth its costs its shutting down builds who deal dmg. For starters, thats a strawman argument and it doesnt make sense even as a strawman argument.

Nah. The absorb can have acceptable limitations and still be worth it's cost. If you want to accuse me of producing a fallacy, show where I went wrong.

pieratsos wrote: »

Who said anything about useless morph? I think the skill is the defining sorc skill that makes the class unique. I think those defining class skills should be super strong, wouldnt mind if they are overloaded. But overloaded in a good way promoting skilled gameplay. One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds isnt healthy. Its freaking obnoxious. Especially for a class that takes advantage by staying at range and is super mobile.

"One button making you prety much unkillable by ranged builds" is obnoxious. We agree on that. Trying to put that into my mouth, now that is a strawman.
I am not saying the skill as a whole is useless if the absorb is weak. The skill is still extremely useful in it's unmorphed state! But a morph effect that doesn't justify the cost of casting it by itself doesn't compare well to Streak and frankly, would be a boring morph.

pieratsos wrote: »

Again the absorb on sorc should work only for crucial moments, not an additional layer of defence against ranged builds. I explained in a previous post possible scenarios of what those crucial moments mean. If the absorb lasts 2s+ it becomes freaking obnoxious for any ranged build to fight a sorc.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is an additional layer of defense. But with it not working retroactively, the absorb has to last longer than one second to be worth casting in crucial moments.
I couldn't find any such comments of yours, either.

If the absorb lasts 3s+ it will shut down ranged builds. If that is what you are suggesting then you are essentially suggesting to shut down ranged builds whether that is ur intended target or not. No strawman right there.

The skill should justify the cost of casting it. But it should do that based on what it gives you overall. Not based on the absorb alone. It should not justify the cost based on the absorb alone.

Being able to absorb in crucial moments is indeed a layer of defense. But not a reliable source of defence against ranged builds. There is a big difference between the two and that is the whole freaking point. The skill should give you the ability to absorb projectiles in crucial moments to help you survive if you cast the skill at the right time. But it should not get to the point where you can reliably use it like a shield to absorb everything coming at you from range cause it becomes obnoxious and boring and that is exactly what a long duration will do.

That is not what I am suggesting. It is also your opinion and dependent on the meta. Like I said, don't put words in my mouth.

The skill should be competitive with the other morph and feel like a significant upgrade to the base ability. Plenty of skills are used mostly for their added morph effects some or all of the time.

Except the point i addressed initially is this

ToRelax wrote: »

0.5 seconds makes no sense because it doesn't work retroactively, unlike wings. That's not even enough to justify casting the skill just for the orb.

I mean if thats not what you meant i apologize but based on that comment you seem to think that the skill should be worth casting just for the absorb which would mean that the skill becomes a reliable source of defence like a shield against projectiles which will make the skill obnoxious, shutting down ranged builds.

Yes the skill should be competitive and considering that its a defining class skill i think it should be very powerful. So if the skill is somehow underperforming then by all means buff it, but not giving it a long lasting absorb cause thats dumb.

I think the skill should retain its stun at the origin and have a very short lasting orb to reinforce that crucial moment use while also having a snare and root immunity. That is a significant upgrade from the base ability and makes it different from the more offensive streak.

In the comment I last quoted you were talking about 3+ seconds. That would, in my opinion, be too long in this meta.
Like I stated in the comment you now quoted, I also think 0.5 seconds is too short.

I don't see why you would think just because the orb is worth the cost of casting the skill it would have to be shutting down projectile based builds. If it's worth it in crucial moments, it's fine. 0.5 seconds is not enough for that, that's my point.

Moonsorrow

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

They should make the Ball eat gap closers, too. Otherwise, without the origin stun, this will be useless as an escape tool.

The whole point is exactly that: It gives protection against the "zergling projectile/snipe spammers" type of enemies so you can tactically retreat and use mobility as a defense instead of the old "just stack shields and try facetank" -sorc play that is being nerfed to not be sustainable and thus clearly not the intended play anymore on how msorc at pvp is played in their vision.

More like a mobile dps that escapes under pressure, but.. protects against projectile spammers but fast melee enemies with gap closers can still get you, as they should - it is not supposed to give protection from both too easily. Melee brawlers are supposed to be the "counter" to ranged pew pew or why would anyone play anything else?

BoL will be strong defensive tool, as is the Templar Bubble, as is Cloak, as are Wings (well, clipped wings, but still a choice to mitigate a LOT), necro can go Goliath form or corpse play with Deaden Pain as a strong defensive (sort of), Warden has Shimmering Shield. All have a strong defensive tool, of course.. many who play with just 1 class see other classes skills as something to nerf and "op" while forgetting, all classes have their own "op" tool that have counters, be it brawlers with gapclosers or in Cloak case AOE damage and/or Detect skills and potions and so on.

All these strong defensive skills should have just been created/adjusted at the same time to all classes so people would understand them.

Reality is, with all these skills out there, people still die in seconds at pvp, with just the occasional happy moment when you can escape with the tool your class has. So..

JusticeSouldier

so main issue is general dps in pvp if almost everyone can die in a second.
will see if it will be enouch nerfed in Dragonhold with all that changes, but i feel it will not enouch to